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davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 9148
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 5:54 pm:   Edit Post

Changes to our board rules?
(We have rules?)

There aren't any; yet. But there probably will be soon. But our discussions on these changes are not yet complete, so I'm not going to say anything about it. Well, I wasn't ...

But, I happened upon a thread this evening wherein a heated discussion was taking place that very typically illustrates the lack of civility that a lot of our members have been noticing here over the past year or so. A significant number of our members have noticed that our board seems to no longer be as civil as it previously had been from its inception.

This incivility and disruptive behavior has been seen my many to be damaging to the overall health of our board, our community. Susan, Mica, and I feel that we need to address these issues, and we've had discussions; but we have not yet completed those discussions.

But in light of this recent thread, I'll say this. Going forward, incivility and disruptive behavior will not be tolerated. We feel that for the overall good of the community, we can not continue to let disruptive behavior put a damper on the overall spirit of this community.

That's all I want to say on this at the moment.
the_jester
Intermediate Member
Username: the_jester

Post Number: 115
Registered: 2-2010
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 6:45 pm:   Edit Post

[moderator's edit: as mentioned above, this type of discourse will not be tolerated.]

(Message edited by davehouck on March 08, 2010)
ajdover
Senior Member
Username: ajdover

Post Number: 809
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 6:59 pm:   Edit Post

"
Posted by xxxx on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 6:45 pm:

Favorite "Blazing Saddle" Quotes...???

People can hide behind a indirect messages and use words like
"xigger", and "xaggots" and everybody laughs! HAA HAAAH AAAAH AAAA!!!!

This is where I leave the Alembic.com, I am insulted by the management
for tolerating this kind discussion which could be offensive to
others.

My mission is done here...
-"

Dave - is this the genesis of the changes? Not trying to call anyone out here, just trying to understand.

Al
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 9157
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 7:11 pm:   Edit Post

Alan; I haven't read the "Blazing Saddles" thread. The thread that got my attention this evening is in the troubleshooting section. (And by the way, I am very appreciative, and quite moved, that Jimmy posted such a thoughtful comment.)
slawie
Intermediate Member
Username: slawie

Post Number: 169
Registered: 8-2002
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 7:34 pm:   Edit Post

+1 Dave!

There seems to be an element of disrespect between a handful of posters propagating within a couple of threads.

There are some Email Etiquette Rules that would well fall
into what may be required here.

http://www.cit.griffith.edu.au/~davidt/email_etiquette.htm

slawie
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 1822
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 8:11 pm:   Edit Post

Dave, you just might be my hero. ;)

Seriously (but Dave still just might be my hero), I love this board and am blessed to call you all family. As one who does desktop computer support for a living, trust me when I say that a little civility goes a long way even when we are in complete and utter disagreement. I can't help but think that Paul TBO would have something kind, witty and useful to say about all this.

I raise a glass to you all,
John
jseitang
Advanced Member
Username: jseitang

Post Number: 282
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 8:38 pm:   Edit Post

here here!!!
j_gary
Advanced Member
Username: j_gary

Post Number: 276
Registered: 6-2005
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 8:45 pm:   Edit Post

Dave,

Normally I bristle at the threat of censorship. I firmly believe in letting a dim bulb show it's wattage. It was a rare occurrence on this site as it's my impression that people who are willing to make the sacrifice to own an Alembic are cut from a similar fabric. The group seems to be students of the musical art-form, real bassist & guitarists, thoughtful & well read.

As such, the members and you gave posters the benefit of a doubt when they acted a fool. Because of the kind and gentle tone set by you and the membership, the clueless, classless & terminally dim have run roughshod around here on occasion.

As of late I have painfully suffered through a number of just plain immature & childish threads involving a seeming small but repetitive cast of characters. I would be grateful if you would hand them a hat and send them to the corner.

Just a thought if I may. Instead of removing the thread or post, destroying all evidence of their wondrous abilities, how about another topic title such as "The Hell You Say" Anytime one of us keyboard warriors gets to feeling too froggy you could have us hop over to "The Hell You Say" topic. That way we could all see who the real geniuses are. It would be great fun to visit the topic and see some of the work of the dim. Want to bet we shall see the same cast of characters time & time again until they may perhaps get the message. I shall make ever effort to keep my posts from being sent there down to a couple times a month.
artswork99
Senior Member
Username: artswork99

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, March 08, 2010 - 9:14 pm:   Edit Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear
Thank you Dave
serialnumber12
Senior Member
Username: serialnumber12

Post Number: 689
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 4:05 am:   Edit Post

I'll be the first to admit i have said things in the past while buzzing from several Beers so ill apologize to everyone here for being stupid in that regard.............no more P U I's for me (posting under the influince)
mike1762
Senior Member
Username: mike1762

Post Number: 490
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 5:19 am:   Edit Post

Everybody remember the LAST big blow-up (Aug 09)??? Bob Novy had some insightful comments (edited):

"...I do not happen to believe that the principle of "free speech" applies here. You are not simply entitled to say whatever you damn well please: this is a forum for a reasonably focused set of topics and it has its own community standards about appropriate behavior. A second point is that, by definition, an "opinion" is not something that can be proven! We all have them, yours may well be different than mine, and I might not even comprehend it. But the most I can do is perhaps offer an alternative view while respecting your right to feel as you do... and then move on. What you do not do is start yet another thread insisting that your opinion is the only possible valid one, and challenging anyone to "prove" you wrong. It's easy to say, "why don't we all just try to get along"; but in fact, that is not possible when (for some people) getting along with everyone is simply not a priority or consideration. Of course it always takes two, but if you have enough people who simply choose not to "let go", then it can get ugly fast, and often".

I think this will be a good thing for our community... it is probably a year or so overdue. If inflammatory forum posts is "your thing", TalkBass awaits!!! But even there, threads get killed pretty quickly when things go too far. I wish the software had a built-in "Kill File" that could be configured by individual users. That would probably prevent a lot of discord and encourage those seeking confrontation to go elsewhere as it became apparent that their posts were being blocked.
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 763
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 6:51 am:   Edit Post

Things have certainly changed around here, and not for the best. This has always been the most polite forum on the internet, but there has been a significant level of disrespect among some club members lately. Typed print can often be a poor excuse for face to face communication in that people tend to read the worst into everything, and respond accordingly. I apologize if any post of mine was found to be offensive, and as Keavin says, I may have had a beer or two in my time. For myself, I wish nothing but health, happiness, and possibly patience to us all.
harald_rost
Intermediate Member
Username: harald_rost

Post Number: 191
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 8:06 am:   Edit Post

A good rule is to think twice before writing instead of writing before thinking (Alcohol and drugs might be dysfunctional for that). Unfortunately it is not verifiable between individuals.
But I think the Alembic Club is a very good, useful and peaceful board compared to others.
Harald
jbybj
Advanced Member
Username: jbybj

Post Number: 270
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 8:41 am:   Edit Post

Dave, Mica, and the rest,

This forum is often referred to as an extension of the Alembic "home". Just as you would ask an unruly guest to leave your house, I for one, encourage you whole heartedly, to ban anyone you want to. Anyone who you feel needs to be tossed.

Don't worry anymore about being "fair" or "accepting". Make this forum what you, (I mean the Alembic family) want.

I know in my home growing up, I was reminded that it was not a democracy in our house, just in our nation.

You don't need to be democratic. Save your forum.

And if someone feels wronged? Tough. My 2 cents



Geez, I hope I make the cut.......


JBY
tbrannon
Senior Member
Username: tbrannon

Post Number: 1158
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 9:00 am:   Edit Post

I echo James' sentiments above and apologize for wading into Shoji's LED thread.

This is a great forum- it probably needs a bit of pruning and shaping, but the roots are deep and the soil is rich.
jseitang
Advanced Member
Username: jseitang

Post Number: 283
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 9:59 am:   Edit Post

i feel the same, there are so many more things id like to share with the community, but am apprehensive due to the very nature the boards have been "dominated" by a certain style of dialogue, that i really dont think is useful or productive to sharing. that said, i hope people can think about when there was no alembic club.
pace
Senior Member
Username: pace

Post Number: 506
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 3:06 pm:   Edit Post

Is it me, or does Shoji's tailpiece look off-center after that refinish?
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4335
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 3:12 pm:   Edit Post

rotflmao!

Bill, tgo

P.S. I find it interesting how we're all tiptoeing around the truth that 98% of these problems are all traceable to a single individual.
jbybj
Advanced Member
Username: jbybj

Post Number: 271
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 3:28 pm:   Edit Post

Keyser Soze?
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 694
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 5:06 pm:   Edit Post

i think the easiest thing to do is ban Shoji!
dluxe
Member
Username: dluxe

Post Number: 79
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 5:41 pm:   Edit Post

Perhaps I should not have commented on the Shoji thread, but I was tired of seeing Mica be put through the wringer over something that was completely avoidable. (customs fees) Mica did all of the research and (probably) still has not been apologized too. If I could afford a 9k bass I sure could afford to pay half of a 5% customs fee and say "thank you Mica for taking care of the other half and for paying shipping both ways."
dannobasso
Senior Member
Username: dannobasso

Post Number: 1214
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 7:46 pm:   Edit Post

I'm all for moderating comments and members. I have said before if you have to get something across and its rough around the edges, type away and DON'T POST it. I do understand standing up for the family here, I have done it numerous times but it can be misconstrued. So lets give Dave and our gracious hosts our support and respect and restore our beloved community to one of sharing, admiration, information and good humor. By the way, when we do call the mothership, be sure to ask how they are doing. And try to end with a joke and or positive well wish thingy.
gregduboc
Advanced Member
Username: gregduboc

Post Number: 363
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2010 - 8:01 pm:   Edit Post

Well, I would like to suggest something. It might be silly, but maybe it is a good solution.
Like there is an "edit" option on every post, why not create a "Report" button? Something that could trigger an alarm for the moderators that could be easily traced back to the possibly offensive post, giving then a possibility for the moderator to interfere and perhaps erase the post or notify the user, whatever seems more reasonable. Maybe the alarm should "ring" after two people finding the post offensive, to avoid many alarms, I don't know. Just thinking out loud....
I also believe it needs to have a registered user only, so no outsider can come and joke around on our nice community and if someone apparently is offended by everything, the moderator can talk to him exclusively.
I find this a good idea because it makes everything private.

Greg
terryc
Senior Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 1164
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 5:39 am:   Edit Post

I used to contribute a lot but at the end of last year I noticed that I too was being drawn into this boards politics.
DaveHouck has a task which most of you(including me) would not do for money let alone volunteer.
Whether it is the 'britishness' in me or just realising that the increasing number of this forum members need to get a life and stop using it for there inane ramblings on subjects which are just too small to be noticed.
Who cares if people leave??? it is there choice, this forum is getting to be far away from what it's original purpose was developed for, to inform, to help and discuss the wonderful instruments we own..not as a platform for political or personal argument.
Maybe our american cousins should stop being so forthright and step back and look at the scene before painting it different colours from the intended scheme.
grateful
Advanced Member
Username: grateful

Post Number: 320
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 2:43 am:   Edit Post

I too post far less often than I used to do (though I still stop by and read most days) because I don't wish to be drawn into a "my opinion is more valid than yours" type altercation.

Most people come here because we share one opinion: Alembic make the finest electric guitars and basses. Beyond this, they diversify quite a bit.
paulman
Senior Member
Username: paulman

Post Number: 422
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post

Hi, my name is Roger and I'm a Alembiholic.

Bill, I hold Jerry Garcia responsible for starting this long, long, LONG strange trip! May it never end!!

I do not post often, and when I do it's for information or to make jokes and lighten things up. Almost got drawn into the fray, once.

Many times I've typed, and then retyped, and then deleted before posting. It's good to have rules, and it's also good to take this board less seriously unless we're talking guitars and basses.

Thanks Dave, I will never stop coming here regardless of the mad posts, or controversial posts, or the hilarity of the runaway threads. We are human, and respond on perception rather than logic most of the time.

Now, tailpeices being off center is something that makes me giggle!

dadabass2001
Senior Member
Username: dadabass2001

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 2:45 pm:   Edit Post

Roger,
very nice (and appropriate) emoticons
Although it kinda looks like #2 is throwing his monitor at #1
Mike
garth4664
Intermediate Member
Username: garth4664

Post Number: 112
Registered: 10-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 9:12 pm:   Edit Post

Dave, I'm sorry to hear that our little group has come to this, but it looks like it has.

Danno your suggestion on 1. type, 2. think, 3. don't post something if it is still "rough" is a good one.

I notice that bad postings that are ignored soon disappear out of sight, while responding "in defence" of ourselves or others we seem to see escalation of issues.

A suggestion would be, if someone posts something stupid - ignore them, and the post will go away or alternatively change the subject and say something unrelated and meaningful to one of the other civil members of the board (whomever you think that may be).

Also give people the benefit of the doubt on cross cultural communication, especially where english is not their first language - they probably did not mean to be offensive or overtly abrupt.

Finally, We are typing to eachother in our undies about expensive guitars and basses (which I love), but none of this will solve world hunger. I hope nobody here is taking my advice or rantings seriously, but my invitation to you all is a serious matter. If I meet you in a bar, I will buy you a beer and we can talk about bass guitars.
speicky
Senior Member
Username: speicky

Post Number: 401
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 1:32 am:   Edit Post

...typing to eath other in undies ?????
and I thought it was only me :-)
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 667
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2010 - 6:36 am:   Edit Post

Undies? Sorry - I never realized it was a formal group. Excuse me a moment.

Peter
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 4342
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post

Anyone else notice how there seems to have been no more problems lately? Gee, I wonder why? hehehehe

Bill, tgo
mike1762
Senior Member
Username: mike1762

Post Number: 494
Registered: 1-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 10:41 am:   Edit Post

Medication???
hb3
Senior Member
Username: hb3

Post Number: 478
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 2:52 pm:   Edit Post

Yeah, and all it took was the revelation that the Alembic board is a fount of unconscious racism.

/sarcasm

Sorry.
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1364
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 5:21 pm:   Edit Post

I've always considered myself a guest of the Wickershams on this forum and mighty lucky to come to know all of you.

I think we've all shown unbelievable patience regarding the '800# Gorilla in the room'; but as most of us who've been here for a while have learned, you can never underestimate just how someone's going to act whilst waiting for there custom axe to be finished. And I'm on the outside looking in, I can NOT imagine what they go through at Alembic.

You know, it's just guitars and basses. It's not a cure for cancer, the birth of your next child, or losing a loved one. It's SUPPOSED to be fun. And believe me, I can be just as horribly infantile and obstinate and self-absorbed as anybody else on occasion, though with age it's fortunately becoming harder and harder to show my ass at the drop of a hat.
The Reverend Billy G, as always, says it best: "Just turn it up and spank the plank!"
This is a concept we should remember.

Maybe it all goes past me as my favorite two gags in 'Blazing Saddles' is running up on Count Basie in the middle of nowhere, and when Mongo punches the horse!

And as always, I wish I was half as thoughtful as Dave.

J o e y
dwmark
Advanced Member
Username: dwmark

Post Number: 260
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 6:09 pm:   Edit Post

J o e y

Great post. I had more to add, but realized--if I did that, it would be about me.

Great post.

dw
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 1828
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2010 - 6:24 pm:   Edit Post

We need to have a get-together sometime!

John
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 2354
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit Post

what the hell did i miss?

personally i find all threads offensive. lol

especially about wood-
does anyone--- i mean anyone--- have any compassion for these poor trees that gave their lives so we could blow thousands of dollars, hence killing more trees just so we can sit there and think we are actually talented?
we sit and talk about these pieces of wood like they were------
pieces of wood----how would you like to be cut down, sliced, sanded, carved, painted, sliced and the then sealed in polyurethane...
i mentioned sliced twice- i like sliced!

the answer is no---

therefore i propose that alembic close its doors and close the website....

FREE THE WOOD
FREE THE WOOD
FREE THE WOOD
THE WHOLE FOREST IS WATCHING
THE WHO;E FOREST IS WATCHING

boy i miss the sixties
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 1373
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Monday, March 15, 2010 - 9:31 pm:   Edit Post

Thanks, David.

J o e y
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 1831
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2010 - 7:50 am:   Edit Post

"what the hell did i miss?

personally i find all threads offensive. lol

especially about wood-
does anyone--- i mean anyone--- have any compassion for these poor trees that gave their lives so we could blow thousands of dollars, hence killing more trees just so we can sit there and think we are actually talented?
we sit and talk about these pieces of wood like they were------
pieces of wood----how would you like to be cut down, sliced, sanded, carved, painted, sliced and the then sealed in polyurethane...
i mentioned sliced twice- i like sliced!

the answer is no---

therefore i propose that alembic close its doors and close the website....

FREE THE WOOD
FREE THE WOOD
FREE THE WOOD
THE WHOLE FOREST IS WATCHING
THE WHO;E FOREST IS WATCHING

boy i miss the sixties"

I need a new keyboard! Mine's full of coffee! :D

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