| Author | Message | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 515 Registered: 11-2008 |
Hey guys, one question. I want to give my Ritter basses an Alembic tone, a tone that I had when I had my Signature. Ideally, I want to add filters to my bass, but that won't happen. So a preamp is what I need. The question is? F-1X, F-2B or SF-2?? I wished I could go somewhere and try them, but that's not a reality here in Brazil! Any help is highly appreciated, as always!! Greg | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 737 Registered: 4-2004 |
The SF-2. | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 516 Registered: 11-2008 |
The thing is, I wanted to build a simple rig with preamp, poweramp and cabs. But, I am a newbie regarding these questions, so how would I control the volume, if I set it up: SF-2 into poweramp into cabs? Will the power amp have such feature, or would I have to get a proper preamp as a F-1X and connect the SF-2 to it? Thanks, Greg (Message edited by gregduboc on June 09, 2011) | ||
| hifiguy
Advanced Member Username: hifiguy Post Number: 299 Registered: 10-2006 |
An SF-2 can be used as a stand-alone preamp. You do not need an F-1X unless you want a tube preamp rather than the solid state one that is a part of the SF-2. | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 517 Registered: 11-2008 |
I see. But how would I control the volume, as I don't see a dedicated knob on the SF-2? Greg | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 995 Registered: 3-2004 |
The SF-2 is like having Series 2 electronics in a rack unit, so it will definitely help get the Alembic sound. However, I think it would sound better to use an F-1X though for the preamp if price isn't too much of an issue. The SF-2 is designed really for more of a tone shaping device than than to act as a stand alone preamp (although it could work as such). If you really wanted to get wild, you could run an SF-2 in stereo, into an F-2B (also stereo) into two separate power amps (or a stereo power amp). | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 925 Registered: 1-2005 |
"If you really wanted to get wild, you could run an SF-2 in stereo, into an F-2B (also stereo) into two separate power amps (or a stereo power amp)." Or if the bass is stereo, run it into the SF-2 in stereo, then use the F-2B to sum the signals to mono... If the bass is mono, though, it might make most sense to go SF-2 --> F-1X I haven't used the SF-2 as a preamp either, only as a tone-shaping device. There are a couple of threads on here about using it as a preamp though - would be worth checking those. If running in mono, there are basically three volume controls - the direct signal volume, and then volumes for both filters. It's important to note that the controls work differently depending on stereo vs. mono operation. | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 518 Registered: 11-2008 |
I see. So would the direct signal volume when running in mono be the "output level" (master volume)? Greg | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 10214 Registered: 5-2002 |
In mono parallel mode, the knob on the far left, Input Gain, is the "master volume". | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 519 Registered: 11-2008 |
Perfect Dave, thanks for that. That's what I really needed to know. Time to get an SF-2 then! Greg | ||
| smokin_dave
Advanced Member Username: smokin_dave Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2002 |
My rig is an SF-2 running into a Crown XTi 1000 power amp and hooked into an Eden D410 XLT.I've used this setup for a few years now and absolutly love it.Although I'm toying with the idea of selling my Epic(the old war horse,it really needs to played)to purchase an F1-X for the tube and direct out.I've had many a compliment for the sound it produces. | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 520 Registered: 11-2008 |
David, that is the sort of rig I'm going to get myself. Good to know that someone actually uses it and likes it! Have you ever tried to get an Alembic tone out of a non-Alembic bass using the SF-2? Greg | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1885 Registered: 5-2009 |
In stereo I like to go from the DS5-R to SF-2 to F-2B to power amp. I have used this for a Series Bass or Non -Series. The DS5-R can provide a parallel mult for a mono non-Series to run through both channels of the SF-2 and thus dividing the signal and being able to be shaped at dual response curves. I did this at the Northern California Alembic Gathering with my single pickup Distillate .I think it works well . ____I like to think "out of the box" . Greg _ you might love the SF-2 ! Experiment and indulge yourself and you will find new ways to get what you like to hear. | ||
| smokin_dave
Advanced Member Username: smokin_dave Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ya' know Greg,I've never played another bass through my rig but an Alembic.Back in 94'I was looking for a tone processor and was turned on to the SF-2.While I was waiting for the sales clerk to gather it up I spied a rack of Epic's hanging on the wall,pulled one down and was instantly hooked for life.Told the sales clerk when he got back that I want both and made his day.The only other bass that has ever been played through my rig is my Rogue fiver. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1886 Registered: 5-2009 |
Greg___ , I have done what I describe in my post 1885 (above) with several NON-Alembic instruments as well and was able to get pleasing results for both myself the other players and the audience as well. | ||
| willie
Intermediate Member Username: willie Post Number: 189 Registered: 11-2003 |
I use an F-1X with the SF-2 in the effects loop before the compressor. The SF-2 is in mono mode. Will | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 521 Registered: 11-2008 |
Thanks fellas! You guys really helped! I'm taking everything in consideration here. I'll be staying in the US (Boston) during July, so I'll buy it then! It will be a slow process (first SF-2, then poweramp, then maybe F-1X....), but I'll get there! Thanks again, Greg | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 699 Registered: 9-2008 |
I remember that our friend Abidu got one SF-2 (or was it a FX-1?). I really can't remember, but you could contact him and ask for a try on his gear. Actually we could finally schedule that brazilian Alembic gathering and get together. (Is my english comprehensible?) | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 522 Registered: 11-2008 |
Oooops, double post! Greg (Message edited by gregduboc on June 10, 2011) | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 523 Registered: 11-2008 |
Hey Mario! That's true, I forgot about it! Abidu has an Alembic preamp, but I believe it's a F-1X. But good idea, I call him and give it a try! Unfortunately, I don't have an Alembic to bring to the gathering, Abidu bought all of them from me!! But lets try to make it happen. The only problem is I will be out of the country until September, so let's get back on it on the second semester, and I can bring along my SF-2! Greg | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 701 Registered: 9-2008 |
All right, bring it on! | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 2457 Registered: 6-2002 |
Will, I have the same setup and yesterday i got hold of my old boss RCL-10 1/2 rack compressor/limiter/gate and was trying it out in the chain. I tried it before and after the SF-2 but could not decide which is the wisest place to put it. Do you think I should compress my signal before the SF-2 or compress the SF-2 output before the power amp. How did you decide which was the best place for it? Is it better to have it set as a limiter to deal with the peaks or apply some mild compression the whole signal? Jazzyvee | ||
| willie
Intermediate Member Username: willie Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2003 |
Most of what I have ever learned in studying the use of compressors is that they should be the last device in the signal chain. Since you are using them to smooth out louder parts and boost quieter parts so your sound is more even. Too much though and you'll affect your dynamics too much. Just the right amount and you control your dynamics with your fingers. If you put an effect after the compressor , it can introduce gain in the signal path and negate the purpose of the compressor. Since Bass is the most dynamic instrument as far as the variance in it's signal from quiet passages to fast transients and the fact that digital recording devices don't like to have their record level clipped like old tape recording devices where that actually caused a somewhat desireable effct know as tape compression when you clipped the input signal while recording,compressors are very important to get the best signal level recorded without the unpleasant affect from clipping the input to a digital recorder. I have tried using 2 DBX 160 a's, one on each crossover output of my F-1X so I could compress the highs more to smooth out those loud fast transient signals when you slap or snap a string back against the fingerboard but be able to compress the lows less so the bottom end still came through clear and punchy and loud. But doing that, if you change the volume on the F-1X you have to adjust the threshold of each compressor accordingly to keep it starting to compress the signal at the right level. This led me to just putting the compressor last in the effects loop of the preamp. Plus this way my direct out to FOH or recording device is compressed where as with the compressors on the crossover outputs, your direct out is not compressed. For my other system where I use 2 seperate preamps for a biamp setup, 1 set for highs and 1 set for lows, I use a DBX 160 A in the effects loop of each and can compress my highs independently from my lows. I use a Sansamp RPM and a Sanamp RBI, The RB1 set for highs through a Crown Amp to 4X10 cabs, and the RPM set for lows to a Crown amp to 1X15 cabs. Both setups sound great But I still usually prefer the Alembic F-1X, SF-2 DBX 160 A and then the cossover outputs the that amplifier cabinet setup. Imagine that. Ths Sansamp setup will definely get that Geddy Lee sound though and offers the independent compression option. Will | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1889 Registered: 5-2009 |
Actual Tape "Saturation / Compression " and" Clipping " are a bit different from each other . I agree that compression with outboard hardware on the Bass signal path is often suited last in the signal path to your recording device in many conventional circumstances, however some applications could vary. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4889 Registered: 7-2004 |
Most of my reading about using effects with guitar suggests that the compressor should be first in the signal chain. Bill, tgo | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1890 Registered: 5-2009 |
Where to insert compression has been the object of many debates over the years; pre or post EQ , signal processing ,etc. Much lies in the effects that rely on a difference of potential in variance of amplitude in order to accommodate threshold adjustments. That is why I never like to say that there is a best way to do it , sometimes it all depends on such variables and personal preferences ." What ever floats the boat" LOL ... Of course if the boat just floats and has no means of propulsion then that needs consideration as well ; My 2 cents ... ... ... ... | ||
| willie
Intermediate Member Username: willie Post Number: 191 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yeah Clipping is usually more used in terms of driving an amplifier beyond it's power rating which causes the sine wave to flatten out at the top and bottom which changes the signal from AC to DC which the voice coils of speakers do not like to see. Thats how most people make the mistake of not enough amplifer power for the speakers they are using and they end up burning them up and can't figure out why. But I agree, where a compressor goes is up to the person using it and what they are using it for. Most guitar players I know use the little stomp box versions and put it first in the chain before it goes to all those other little stomp boxes they use. Whatever works best for your situation. Will |
