| Author | Message | ||
| ajdover
Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2003 |
Folks, Ed Roman Guitars has a Spyder listed on Ebay for $7500. I own Spyder #7 of 50, purchased through authorized Alembic dealer Bass Central. (Ed Roman Guitars is an authorized dealer from what I understand as well) Don't want to give away what I paid, but suffice to say, what Mr. Roman is asking is too much, even for a work of art like a Spyder. Just wanted to let those of you considering a Spyder know. You can see the ad at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3729719512&category=4713 Alan Spyder #7 of 50 P.S. BTW, Mr Roman's ad says the spider web inlays are brass. They aren't. They're sterling silver. | ||
| ajdover
Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2003 |
All, Also, there are no fingerboard LEDs. There are, however, side LEDs in red. Alan | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 452 Registered: 7-2003 |
Same old, same old...with Ed. Bill | ||
| zappahead
Member Username: zappahead Post Number: 73 Registered: 10-2002 |
Considering this is the same guy who used "9-11" as an excuse to start selling guitars on ebay (which he used to bash in bizarre rants which were obviously grounded in the fact that it took business away from guys like himself) and then used the same "9-11" excuse to sell cheap foreign guitar models even after bashing the same exact guitars time and time again on his site and telling us how incredibly stupid it was to buy such guitars, it doesnt surprise me to see that hes gouging the prices of these guitars. Look at some of his "custom handmade" guitars and you can see he is selling stuff he bought from closed down factories from makers like Steinberger and BC Rich and passing it off as high end custom made guitars with very high price tags. Even the Viking line from Moonstone is clearly an attempt to sell his own guitars under someone elses brand name. Those guitars that he sells for like 4k are the same bodies he uses on his own abstract label. He sells some very nice instruments and I do like to browse his site from time to time, but people with a keen eye are gonna see a lot of the stuff as hucksterish. His store is amazing though, if you go to Las Vegas you should check it out, his selection of guitars is amazing. | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 131 Registered: 9-2003 |
If you spend any time on his site, you'll find rant after rant about how the rest of the world sucks, and he is the greatest, blah, blah, blah. I gave him the opportunity to furnish a bid to order my Custom Orion from his shop after reading how "great" he is and how he'll beat anybody's legit price. Despite following instructions NOT to call, and to write with all the pertinent contact info, my solicitation was ignored. I tried a couple of times after that (they're real busy, at least according to Ed's site), but gave up. His ludicrous pricing on the Alembic's he's posted on Ebay just underlines the fact that he is A BS'er without equal. (Message edited by kmh364 on June 11, 2004) | ||
| ajdover
Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2003 |
(Message edited by ajdover on June 11, 2004) | ||
| ajdover
Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2003 |
Like Zappahead, I like to browse his site from time to time - he does have a great selection of instruments if you will, to include Alembics. But it is a bit hucksterish. And of course, there are pictures of him with famous players on the site, which, speaking only for myself, doesn't impress me a bit. I don't care if he is the personal bass maker to the stars (I thought Alembic was/is!), if the instrument is overpriced, it's still overpriced. Bass Central has the list for a Spyder on their site at about $8600 - if Mr. Roman is starting the bidding at $7500, I can only assume he's trying to get as close to list price or better for the Spyder. While I recognize a business' desire and need to make a profit, this seems excessive to me. My guess is no one's going to bid on it, like it was the last time he had the Spyder listed. Buyer beware, I suppose. Alan | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 118 Registered: 3-2004 |
Demand seems to be light for the Spyder basses. As I understand it, Alembic has not yet made the 50 they are willing to create. Until at least 51 people want a Spyder, the street discount will be the same as for any other Alembic. Ed seems to think he should be able to get a premium today because of the limited number of these instruments combined with the star association. Thus far, he has proven to be mistaken. He will either find someone that doesn't know better, or he won't sell the instrument. He certainly won't make a sale to anyone that frequents these boards. | ||
| kayo
Junior Username: kayo Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well - I am glad I am not alone in my sentiments about Mr Roman. I became aware of this vendor via a reference (here in the Alembic Club) to an outstanding piece of Alembic carftsmanship (then again, which Alembic is not an outstanding piece of craft?) that included a link to his website about a year ago. I was pleased to see that there was a large variety of product lines available under one supplier with a somewhat robust sampling of each luthier's axes. It was as a result of this that I got turned onto Ritter basses - and though I am as avid an Alembic enthusiast as the next guy, I am also not a purist by any means - and am always open to eccentric, unusual, and otherwise quality material from whatever source it may stem. As a matter of fact, just when I was about to either buy another Alembic (or setle for a beater-upper so I don't have to drag my precious custom Rogue around to every gig that doesn't warrant it) I now am waiting for my custom Ritter to be deliverd hopefully in time for Xmas. Anyhow - make a long story short - I did not have a good experience whatsoever with Ed over the phone. He was arrogant, rude, condescending, patronizing.... and though I certainly do not have a frail ego - I also am not one to give my busines to someone who does not value me as a customer or respect me as a person. At the end of the day - I gave my $5,500 to another dealer. | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 137 Registered: 9-2003 |
Me too: I gave my money to Steve Frank @ Superbass.net (Alembic bass) and Beaver Felton @ Bass Central (Eden amp stack). Both places are tops to deal with. Highly recommended! | ||
| smokin_dave
Intermediate Member Username: smokin_dave Post Number: 122 Registered: 10-2002 |
I too am here to sing the praises of Bass Central and the great Beaver Felton.I had a very pleasant experience last Aug.securing a deal over the internet to bring my Rogue to it's final home.Steve at Superbass was equally pleasant to work with as I tried my best to get the Seismic bass but alas,not enough cash on my part.Not that he was asking an unfair price but the Rogue that Beaver found was right in the ballpark for me price wise.I highly recommend either dealer. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 453 Registered: 7-2003 |
Seems like lots of us have had good experiences with Steve and Beaver (as well as others mentioned elsewhere). I had a fantastic experience with Beaver over my new bass. Given the frustrating subject of this thread, it's great that there are some really good dealers out there, too. Bill | ||
| ox_junior
Intermediate Member Username: ox_junior Post Number: 103 Registered: 3-2004 |
Once again, I will continue to endorse the unparallelled services of Beaver Felton and crew at Bass Central. They gave me a very fair price for my Spyder, and threw in a freebie set of Rotosounds when I noticed a small discrepancy in my final bill. They even put a photo of me and my Spyder up on their website. How cool is that?? I've heard nothing but nasty things about Ed Roman, who claimed to be a "close personal friend" of John Entwistle and was going to "build a custom line for him". Yeah, uh huh. Simply put - if you want to be treated like the discerning customer you are when investing in an Alembic, go to Bass Central. Mike Bisch | ||
| 88persuader
Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2004 |
I've had good dealings with Bass North West AND Washington Music in Maryland. I'd do business with both again. | ||
| stoney
Advanced Member Username: stoney Post Number: 288 Registered: 7-2002 |
I can't say enough about Beaver, Grasshopper and Gard from Bass Central...Also Bass Nortwest was a pleasure to deal with. Washington Music is right in my back yard and I've been buying from them since 1977...they've got people working there today that were there then and that speak volumes about a business. Can't say I've had any dealings with Ed Roman but thanks for the warning! | ||
| northlight
Junior Username: northlight Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2004 |
Guitar Showcase in San Jose California is another great Alembic dealer! The have a good selection of Alembics (basses and guitars!) - good prices and great people helping you making the right decisions. Ask for Terry and you'll be on the right track! | ||
| alemboid
Member Username: alemboid Post Number: 73 Registered: 5-2003 |
Well, When I worked at Sadowsky Guitars, I ran into Ed Roman. He had a booth not far from ours at Bass Day 2001 in New York. I felt so embarrassed for him during his tactless rant about how he builds and sells his version of our (Sadowsky)basses for thousands less. He also blew a lot of hot air about his Alembic style bass that sells for around $1700. Again, attempting to start a new orbit for the solar system around him. I knew after that I would never buy from him. I've dealt with Bass Central and Bass Northwest. Both are great. I've known Chad and Evan at Bass Northwest since I was in high school, and I can say from experience: They are gloriously supportive and capable when it comes to anything in basses. As others have noted, there are several options throughout the country that do well. I've always heard about Washington Music. One day I'll give them a try. Bryant | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 462 Registered: 7-2003 |
Never bought from Washington Music, but their staff is great, their prices are good and their stock is very good. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to deal with them. I believe others have also had very good experience there. If you are in D.C., a trip up to their store (you can get there using Washington's excellent subway) is easily as awe-inspiring as a visit to most of our (other) national monuments! Bill | ||
| mikehabib
New Username: mikehabib Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2004 |
From my experiences with Ed Roman, I believe him to be a straight-forward straight-talking individual. I find it refreshing to deal with someone who speaks his mind and knows what the hell he's talking about. Ed Roman's Pearlcaster guitars are simply the finest electric guitars available. There is no better guitar related website on the planet than edromanguitars.com. The Las Vegas showroom is the most awesome guitar store conceived. I always get alot of quality for the price. I have purchased from Ed Roman on several occasions and I am always satisfied with the product and the customer service. In my book...Ed Rocks!!! | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 136 Registered: 3-2004 |
Mike, If there weren't a few like you, then Ed wouldn't still be in business. It just seems to most of us like he's trying to make a buck off of people that don't know any better. Personally, I only know of him through his website and eBay postings. From these bits of data, I wouldn't even consider calling him for the custom Alembic that I am planning. To each his own... | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mike, I started this thread, and only becuase I felt that Ed Roman was trying to get way more than what the Spyder was worth. Granted, any Alembic will be worth a lot compared to mass produced (e.g., Fender, Gibson, etc.) instruments, but I own Spyder #7, and paid significantly less than Mr. Roman's starting bid. If the Spyders become collectible, then fine, asking more only goes with the territory. As it is, they're not collectible yet to my knowledge (although in my book, any Alembic is a collectible). If it was, I could justify him charging over what would be a reasonable deal. I equate this with the car dealer who sells a hot new model at MSRP or higher. Sure, they make a bunch on the ones they sell initially, but IMHO, lose the customer for good when they find out that they could have had the car for much less. Granted, the customer buys the car, and no one twists his or her arm to buy, but the bad taste left in one's mouth is still there. The way I see it, if you make a decent deal with the customer from the get go, the more likely it will be that the customer will become a regular one. This is what makes me distrust Ed Roman. Most folks who would buy a Spyder are in this club. They do research before they buy, and they know a rip off when they see one. Indeed, many Alembic owners watch Ebay, and if the price isn't reasonable, they don't buy. Mr. Roman has had that Spyder on Ebay twice (I think) now, and to my knowledge it hasn't sold. I think that speaks volumes about him, particularly when you consider that Bass Central sold 4 four string Spyders in the last year. There has to be a reason for that, and I can tell you from experience it's price, service, and care for the customer. Mr. Roman's ad indicated that price was definitely not a sales incentive. I can't speak to service and care, but if the price is high like it was, it makes me wonder. I mean, if he's going to charge well over what other dealers will charge (and still make a profit), how good will his service after the sale be? Again, it all starts with the first thing you see, which in this case is price. I knew he was charging way more than other dealers, and that's what I found distasteful. All of this being said, caveat emptor. Let the buyer beware. If you had good experiences with Mr. Roman, more power to you, and to each his/her own. I agree that he has some amazing stuff (on his website, anyway). I, for one, will stick with Bass Central and Superbass.net's Steve Frank. The price and service have been top notch, and I couldn't ask for more. Rock on, Alan | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm with you, Alan. Superbass Steve or Gard and Beaver @ Bass Central are the absolute tops! Ed Roman can rant all he wants: his pricing and customer service sucks! You can't call because they're too busy to talk to you. I'm busy too, and don't have time to waste on nonsense. You have to write in and give your phone number (i.e., e-mail them), wait,, and then they don't respond with a call or email. I tried two or three times, each time following Ed's rant on how to contact him, until I gave up. Maybe I'm smokin' dope, but that's the furthest thing from professional in my book. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not in the habit of begging somebody to take my money. In my mind (and especially in a BUYER'S economy), if you want my business, you gotta offer something that the others aren't: namely, good price AND good service. Ed Roman offers neither, IMO. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 490 Registered: 7-2003 |
I've thrown plenty of disparagement Ed's way on this thread and other places - because I find Ed's pricing of Alembics frustrating to me, as a potential buyer (who's always in search of a bigger bargain). This past weekend I thought of this (I know, "doesn't get out enough..."). The conclusion I came to is that Ed could not be seriously trying to sell Alembic (given the ease with which most folks, even those previously unfamiliar with Alembic, could learn what new Alembics actually sell for). Further, it seems like he's devoted a fair amount of web space to showing Alembics, at some cost to him. I doubt he's capitalizing (or even recouping his cost) by actually selling a lot of Alembics at profiteering prices. So, given the fact the guy has apparently got a successful and lucrative business (through selling something else), what's Ed trying to accomplish by representing Alembic? I don't have enough info or interest in sleuthing out his pricing and marketing strategies for selling other lines, but it seems he could be up to one or two things. My theories: (1) Alembic is bait (which is never intended to be sold) to draw lookers in order to redirect them to something else he wants to sell. This may or may not be working, based in part of the relative obscurity of the Alembic brand to the average bassist. (2) Alembic is part of the ambiance Ed tries to create for his business by bringing together (and sort of showcasing) lots of other exotic products. I can't believe he actually sells a lot of Bunker guitars (or any of the others he lists under "Obscure Makers"). They're just part of the show. So, now you really know that I have nothing better to do at home on a weekend. I guess what I come away with is the realization that I tend to jump to conclusions when I don't fully understand things: Ed may, in fact, prey on a few unwitting buyers who actually buy Alembics from him at those prices. But I don't think he nails too many like that. So, maybe he's a little dangerous, but not as much as my overactive sense of outrage would like to think. I think I've probably sold the guy a little short in the brains department by assuming he (a) plans to profit big time from scamming Alembic prices or (b) that he doesn't know that most buyers won't fall for those prices in the first place. That said, I personally think whatever he is trying to do with the Alembic brand is probably costing him more than it earns him. I'll never buy an Alembic from Ed (or perhaps anything else for which I don't already know the market price). But I do know the next time I'm in Vegas with nothing else pressing my time, I'll probably check out Ed's showroom. I'm a sucker for Disney World, fender-benders on the highway and other spectacles (large and small), too... Just ruminations - Based largely on little or no information. Now, coffee, I need coffee! Bill | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 184 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bill, I think it's called "bait and switch". Ed Roman knows the avg. buyer is browsing his site looking for Gibson, Fender, PRS, etc. "Oh, you want a (fill in the blank)? OK, those WERE great guitars, but not any longer. Take a look at my Pearlcasters...they're made better than (fill in the blank)'s ever were, and I'll make you a great deal!" He just puts a little slant on it. Normally, it's the unbelievably cheap bargain that draws you in, and then they sell you the much "better" (re: more expensive)item instead: "Oh, those are great, but we just sold the last one...how about one of these? They're much better anyway!". Instead, Roman baits you with the "high-end" brands everyone wants, but then rags on them or outprices them so you'll buy the "home-made" versions of his that are more profitable to him. | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 492 Registered: 7-2003 |
You are less charitable than I am - but nonetheless correct. I guess I find it hard to believe the guy is really that successful solely based on bait and switch when it's so easy (and common) for buyers to comparison shop, whether on the net or in person. He does unabashedly try to hook web viewers with lower quality alternatives right on the same page that purports to advertise the high quality name. Sleazy. His Rants appear to be a self-serving effort to distract readers from his own sleaze by going on about other sellers' and builders' sleazy practices. I suppose he may, in Vegas, have some level of corner on a market where a lot of working musicians have very immediate and urgent needs. There, I feel much nastier after my coffee! Bill | ||
| bsee
Intermediate Member Username: bsee Post Number: 137 Registered: 3-2004 |
These comments have me wondering why Alembic doesn't pull the line? It's certainly a private business issue and I wouldn't expect Alembic to comment on it here. | ||
| hollis
Advanced Member Username: hollis Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2003 |
Okay, here’s my Ed Roman story; When I was first in the Alembic market, I e-mailed Mr. Roman (and his staff) several times about a Further listed on his website. After two weeks of e-mailing and calling an unanswered phone daily, I started thinking that if this is how I get treated when I’m trying to buy something, what’s it going to be like if I have a problem? Consequently, I turned elsewhere. Happily, my experience with Guitar Resurrection was great. You all know the rest of the story……… Oh yeah, after I had purchased my guitar from Guitar Rez, I got an e-mail from Mr. Roman telling me that I hadn’t paid attention to his website. Apparently, they were busy at NAMM….. Also, it seems as though they hadn’t heard of auto response, or voice mail…… Enjoy | ||
| chuckc
New Username: chuckc Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hi Gang, New member here, not a serious bass player but I play around occasionally. More of an acoustic guitar plyaer but love Alembics from way back. I read the posts daily and love the war stories and showcase of instruments. I have been following the Ed Roman discussion with great amusement and found this interesting little ditty. Anyone know if there is any truth to it: Bruce Becvar Ghostbuilt Led Zeppelin's John Paul Jones Alembic Omega Bass. This was listed on Ed's web site under "Ghostbuilders. Kinda interesting. | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 187 Registered: 9-2003 |
Roman makes a lot of outlandish claims on his site. When I first read it, It was like looking at a bad car wreck: you can't stop looking no matter how gruesome it is, LOL! Problem is, like Michael Moore's movies, his comments are obviously sensationalism, but are thought provocative nonetheless. After you past his brashness and highly-opinionated banter, you begin to realize this appears to be nothing more than a very clever psychological sales tactic designed to get you to trust the very opinionated Ed Roman and buy his house-brand stuff over what you actually came in to buy. | ||
| pace
Junior Username: pace Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2004 |
10-12 years ago the guys in my band used to start price wars between East Coast Music Mall which was Ed's outfit in Danbury & Brian Guitars' in New Haven.... Aside from one drumset, even if the price was higher we would always buy from Brian. The main factor was always service after the sale~ back then you couldnt beat Brian's for that. A friend once ordered a set neck PRS from Ed, waited a few months~ only to have a CE arrive. I would have gotten my deposit back, but he settled for it..... During one of their weekend blowout sales I put a deposit on an SG for what seemed like a fair price. I came back Monday w/ cash in pocket (couldnt withdraw enough that day from the ATM) and the "salesdude" was trying to bone me for full retail (ingnoring the slip in my hand for what the computer screen said)..... I cant help but draw a parrallel between Ed moving out to Vegas & Steven King's "The Stand". | ||
| kmh364
Intermediate Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 189 Registered: 9-2003 |
The plot thickens, LOL! | ||
| jorge_s
Junior Username: jorge_s Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2002 |
About Becvar, you should check out this post http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/2465.html If Becvar was an employee of Alembic how does he get the title of ghostbuilder? | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 490 Registered: 7-2002 |
That bass is a Becvar (built after he left Alembic), that is shaped like an Alembic and not a 'ghostbuilt' instrument. It's in addition to the Alembics that JPJ has. It does not pretend to be an official Alembic, meaning there is no Alembic logo on it. You won't see another bass like that done by Becvar because he was warned against building exact copies of the Alembic models down to the headstock shape. He did use our templates to make the body and after that he was told not to use them. A 'ghostbuilt' instrument is not just a copy with someone else's name on it, as in this case, otherwise you could call anybody's Gibson & Fender copies 'ghostbuilt' instruments; I would define as 'ghostbuilt' an instrument that is copied along with the original manufacturer's logo, like the Ted Nugent 'Gibson' Roman mentions on his website. Since Ed also defines a 'ghostbuilt' instrument as one built by someone other than the regular staff of the manufacturing company ( but, still under commission from that same manufacturer, so it's all legal), I think he contradicts himself on the Becvar bass issue, since Alembic definitely did not hire him to build that bass. Valentino | ||
| kmh364
Advanced Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 210 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks for clearing that up, Val. Roman presents this nonsense as fact on his site. This is akin to the National Inquirer/Star shmutz....make it so unbelievably outrageous, and put it in large print, that way people will just have to believe you. |
