| Author | Message | ||
| stout71
New Username: stout71 Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2011 |
Does anyone have any experience using these strings on an Alembic bass? I have used them on many basses in the past with a lot of luck, but they are crazy bright and I don't want to overdo it. Also, you have to measure them and install the ball end yourself (pretty easy) but they are a bit larger than a standard ball end, so I don't know how they might (or might not) fit in the bird tailpiece. Any help is appreciated. Thanks. | ||
| hifiguy
Advanced Member Username: hifiguy Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2006 |
My Stanley Standard is (and has almost always been) strung with RotoSound SwingBass strings. I've played them for more than thirty years on every bass I've ever owned. Never seen a set that didn't come with the ball ends installed, so I can't help you there. Never had a problem with them other than they tend to peter out pretty quickly. | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 956 Registered: 11-2003 |
I used to use Rotos exclusively (RS 66LD), but I noticed as of late that they go dead much faster than I remember. Now I use DR Hi Beams, .40-.100 on all my basses, except for my Stanley Clarke Sig Std, on which I use .45-.105 gauge. The DRs last much longer than the Rotos IME. This doesn't make Rotos a bad string, I just like the fact that I don't have replace my strings as often. Tone is similar - very bright, and there will be string noise from the fingers, but I like that bright tone. | ||
| mike13
Intermediate Member Username: mike13 Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2007 |
Been using Swing Bass and flats on every thing for ever,S2,Essence,Jazz,Ken Smith Black Tiger All great | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 501 Registered: 5-2002 |
This was my favorite string on my Steinberger L2. It was the original OEM string, back when they were branded as Superwound strings and we weren't supposed to notice they had the same address as Rotosound... The very original Steinberger bridge pieces were a tiny knife edge, designed for the smooth core of the Superwounds as the contact point. I've never gotten a set of PSD since they switched from the hex key/barrel ball end. I never tried them on an Alembic, but I don't think those old ball ends would fit in the bird tailpiece. The pictures of the newer cone ends look like you'll have a better chance. At least if they don't work there, you can use them elsewhere. I love the sound of the bare core strings! And yes, I'm a Swing Bass devotee for my 4-string basses. Never liked the feel of the Swing Bass B-strings though, so lately I've been using DR Hi-Beams. The description of the Hi-Beams is exactly the opposite of what I think I'd be looking for, but they sound quite good. David Fung | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 294 Registered: 8-2008 |
I've had this SuperWound set with the wacky "barrel" ball-ends on my 1980 graphite fretless for many years. (I believe I posted these pics of my weird old bridge a while ago). I think I have one spare set remaining if they haven't rusted away. I occasionally rinse them in boiling water. No frets to knick them, bare core over the bridge seems to make that pivot point easier than multiple windings (might just be imagining that), certainly not too bright for my use - plenty of great bottom end. Can you still buy these strings? Jimmy J   (Message edited by davehouck on August 23, 2011) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 1999 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jimmy Thanks for posting a pick of that bridge. I am intrigued by the dimensions of that sustain block . What is the function of the white part near the end? I have thought of an oversized sustain block for a custom design . Wolf | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 2845 Registered: 6-2002 |
I thought Superwounds changed to fixed ball ends at some point? Pretty sure I had a set on an old Yamaha BB1100S many years ago, and they lasted a long time, then I changed to GHS Boomers - this was when one still bought strings over the counter, and nobody stocked Superwounds. Then along came my first Alembic, an Epic, and that didn't like the Boomers, so I moved to DR (with the occasional d'Addarios thrown in for good measure, and Tomastik for flats). I've recently strung my Spoiler with DR Fat Beams, the Marcus Miller set. They are advertized as having more low end. Guess what? They have rather a lot of low end. I was used to boosting the lows on my small combo (SWR Workingman 12) to about 3 o'clock for the Hi Beams, now the bass control is on neutral (wasn't using the Aural Exciter then, and still not using it). They're also pretty supple under the fingers. Some of this may be attributed to having a long scale set on a medium scale bass, but I'm pretty happy with it. The set is still new, and they have plenty of high end too. Not everybody's cup of tea, I'm sure, but the same can be said of Rotosound flats. Hm, what about taper core strings? Re-hm - I think they're called PSD now, Rotosound Piano String Design - still come with mounting instructions and all! | ||
| pierreyves
Senior Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 972 Registered: 11-2006 |
Interesting... is exist for 30,75" and extra light gauge for tenor (85-65-45-30) ? | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 295 Registered: 8-2008 |
Wolf, Yes, that is a double-size block to accommodate what was essentially a double bridge and tailpiece combined. I don't remember how deep the block is, it's a graphite neck channel so who knows what's happening underneath? And the 4 (funky slotted) bridge mounting screws make it nearly impossible to adjust. Luckily the action on this bass doesn't move. This instrument included several experimental ideas so I consider the outcome to have been quite lucky. Not sure what you're asking about the "white part"? Adriaan, Thanks for the roto-link. I'm glad to see they're still making them. And these machine-like ball ends are reusable! Jimmy J | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2000 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jimmy , looking at it again the "white part" seems to be the brass block. perhaps the way the light was on it and the calibration of my monitor made if look white to my eyes at the time. I had thought at fist that maybe there was an experimental bridge pickup there. Thanks for your reply and best regards . Wolf | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 296 Registered: 8-2008 |
Right, that's just a reflection on the brass. Here's another shot showing just how tenuous this whole rig is. The block is NOT very happy acting as a tailpiece, it's trying it's best to pull out of the bass. These things happen when you go a little nutty with the customizing. But as I said, in this case I was lucky with the results. I don't mind the slightly imperfect looks 'cause I love the sound of this bass! Jimmy J  | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2001 Registered: 5-2009 |
Jimmy , Yes I can see what you mean, but all is well as you say for the sake of "Sonic Regards " . I bet this is a sweet sounding Bass ! Jerry, I used to use Roto-Sounds ,but have been using Dean Markley Blue Steel strings for quite a while now . I like the 40-95 2670 set . Wolf | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 503 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jimmy - Coolest bridge EVER... I like my bird, but this makes wonder if there's an interesting variant of the regular bridge where the tailpiece is cantilevered out over the back (instead of having it's own screws). Maybe that would be making the bridge screws have too many functions - height adjust and deal with all the attachment force too. I've often wondered about the sound of different sustain block materials - something light like titanium or aluminum, wood, or even something like cast urethane to reduce sustain. The attack of the bass depends a lot on the string transferring energy into the instrument. When you have a relatively light string's motion being transferred into a super-heavy bridge, there's a physical impedance mismatch - I think you'll get energy reflected back into the string. Of course, the pickups are hearing the string, not the body, so maybe that's what you want. adriaan - When Superwound was around, they actually had a couple of different models. Some of them had fixed ball ends for a standard Fender or Rick bridge, then there was the adjustable version for other instruments. The bare core strings are totally awesome on a Rickenbacker, but many bridges were so gummed up that you couldn't raise the tailpiece enough to make up for the lack of windings. The attraction of PSD strings is that the core wire is less stiff than the wound string would be, so in theory, the intonation should be better. But I can see on Jimmy's bass that the B string is still pulled all the way back! Of course, we're kind of looking at (literally) the very first 5-string bass in that picture, so things like the required amount of intonation range probably wasn't quite sorted out yet. David Fung | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1985 Registered: 10-2003 |
I used Superwound strings quite a bit when they were available. I really liked them. They were, to me, like a "super" Rotosound in both tone and longevity. They came in both a fixed and adjustable ball-end configuration. John | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 1669 Registered: 11-2004 |
jimmyj..from my mechanics side('cos I like all things almost perfect!) I would have to replace those damaged screws and secure the brass bass block..I reckon M6 threaded inserts with s/steel bolts would keep the block from launching itself. Just to upset everyone I never have liked Rotosound strings, I always went for Elites S/steel 'cos they were extremely bright sounding, mainly because I liked to slap and get that 80's sound. | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 297 Registered: 8-2008 |
Excuse my off topic spin... David, Interesting that you would touch on so many points that relate to my basses... The bridge above is from my 1980 fretless so not the earliest of my 5s but the strangest combination of graphite, these strings and weird bridge ideas... Also, the position of the saddles on this bass is relative because it's fretless! My "accuracy" is scarcely gonna be effected by that fine adjustment! Ha! Not sure who got me onto the concept of the bridge/tailpiece combo but it may have come from acoustic guitar. The idea that instead of the endpoint of the vibrating part of the string bearing down on the bridge as it passes over, the bridge is actually the end of the string and maybe that changes how things vibrate... Anyway, the physics of this stuff is all a mystery to me. All I know is I got a lucky combination here. Regarding block material ... I think Mica and the gang have done some experimenting and would certainly have a better idea about what material does what but here's a twist: When I got my first 5-string in '76 there was a slight problem. Likely because of the big B-string, the particular strings and gauges I had chosen, and the original "channel" bridge design, I couldn't get the bridge saddles far enough "south" to make it intonate correctly. I needed another 1/4" or so of adjustment. My dad figured he could make me a new block with the bridge mounting holes offset by 1/4" but the only material he had laying around was a chunk of aluminum. So that's what he used and it worked great. I can't say what it did to the sound but since it was a success all 3 of my fretted basses have aluminum blocks! I also believe things like structure and materials apply differently for bass and for guitar because of the different frequencies of the notes we're dealing with. And of course for what each individual might be trying to achieve. There are as many variations of ideas as there are players. And, back to where we always go back to - we are talking about such personal minutiae here - if you picked up my bass it would sound like you and vice versa! That won't stop us from talking though! Jimmy J | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1987 Registered: 10-2003 |
If I picked it up, it might sound exactly like you (immediately after having a stroke). John | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 298 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey Terry, I hear you on the fix-up ideas, it certainly could be done nicer. But I won't be changing anything unless it really does come apart some day. It's working too good! Thanks, Jimmy J | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 504 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jimmy - Very interesting stuff! I'm curious about one thing that you mentioned in passing (and which I've heard before)- that the intonation setup on the bridge doesn't matter on a fretless... I would think that does matter! With the fretless, you can micro adjust the fundamentals and play in just intonation instead of tempered. But the intonation at the bridge fixes the non-ideal vibration of the string (because of it stiffness). Wouldn't you need the intonation to be set properly for the harmonics of a fretted note to be in tune the the fundamental? On a big, stiff string, the fretted position and harmonics might be offset by 1/4" or more. Obviously, this must be working for you, so I'm respectfully curious if I'm misunderstanding this. The problem that you fixed with the offset sustain blocks is what I meant by the range issue on the pioneering 5-string. I'd certainly expect this issue - nobody could have anticipated a .125 string before it was built. David Fung | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 299 Registered: 8-2008 |
... continuing further off-topic in this freeform thread! Hey David, Well, yes, it matters. The goal of adjusting the bridge saddles on fretless is the same as it is on the fretted bass; to make the fingered notes sound in tune by fine-tuning the actual length of the string. I never understand why larger gauge strings need extra linear length for this to work out but that's what normally happens. My low-B strings are all set about as long as the bridge will allow. (Your comment on "stiffness" must be the answer...) G and D strings are closely tied for shortest on my "boomers" basses and that must be a reflection the wire used for core and wrap? Interesting! The bass above has the added confusion of 1/2" of bare core before the winding starts. Who knows what how that effects the length issue? My passing comment about fine-tuning on the fretless is just a reflection of my own inaccuracies on the instrument. I've obviously set up the bridge so that the fingered notes will be roughly where I expect them to be on the fingerboard ... but really I am not THAT accurate. "Just intonation" is something that string quartets and sometimes complete orchestras can do on the fly (as long as there is no piano) but as far as I know I never visit that realm. It's all I can do to get my (tempered) tuner to show green without using too much vibrato. HA! Back to the PSDs, you can imagine what a pain it was to manufacture several versions of the strings for different basses. OK, making Fender P and Ric 4001 sets made some sense but I think making the ball end user adjustable was a great answer. And I still like these old-school threaded brass cylinders with two opposing allen screws to pinch the wire. Kinda steam-punky. HA!! Jimmy J | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 2987 Registered: 10-2002 |
Back on topic, I last bought a set of superwounds in 1993 for my homemade fretless and they were 'New old stock' then having been out of production for a couple of years. Not only did they have the exposed core, they were 'semi-flatwound' - perfect for a fretless player who prefers a roundwound sound. I still have them on my homemade fretless and they still sound great on the odd occasion I get it out. I've only ever used DR red devils on my fretless rogue (apart from the alembic strings it came with obviously) and I love the tone. Plus, despite them being roundwound there's still very little fretboard wear. Graeme | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 505 Registered: 5-2002 |
Graeme - The smooth strings you had were Superwound "Linea" 505s. I thought these were the best of all the Superwounds. These were the first pressurewound strings that I was aware of. Rotosound still claims to make these if you don't want the exposed core as "Solo Bass" model 55. They still have the really good feel, but I didn't think they sounded as good as the old ones (unfair comparison because of the exposed core). The 55s seem somewhat thin sounding compared to the 505 Superwounds. David Fung | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 506 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jimmy - Off topic brief physics class... If the string had perfect physical behavior, the string would be completely elastic from end to end. In the real world, strings have stiffness and don't exhibit ideal vibration. When you play a note, the stiffness makes the string behave like it's shorter than it really is (the ends don't freely vibrate). Each note in the harmonic sequence is affected differently by the stiffness, which makes for poor intonation - harmonics not in tune with the fundamental. The stiffness is dependent on the construction and materials of the string. It's generally what you expect - a big fat B string has a lot more stiffness than a .010 guitar string. The core wire and way the string is wrapped all affect this. The intonation adjustment is compensating for that stiffness problem. If you pull the bridge piece back, you make the string length longer which lets you shift the fundamental relative to the harmonics to make a better compromise. The big bass strings will need more compensation than the little ones. A PSD string will probably require less compensation than a regular wound string even though the core wire is pretty fat. I wonder how the string makers decide on the mix of core wire diameter, wraps, etc. There's a lot of factors there, none of which are "right". I remember reading about the genesis of the Swing Bass set with John Entwistle having them wind different strings at the factory until he got something he liked the feel and sound of. A number of luthiers that have branded strings made by one of the big manufacturers often really have some small differences from the regular production. At least one shop has a special formula which is the older size of core wire for what's an otherwise common set. David Fung | ||
| jimmyj
Advanced Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 300 Registered: 8-2008 |
David, Thanks for the explanation, that's really interesting. i remember that strings from different manufacturers would require saddle adjustments so that must be due to the different "stiffness" based on core size, windings, etc. And really the B-string overtones are so wonky that I don't often play anything above the 5th fret unless it's a passing note... On my 34" scale bass the 12th fret is almost exactly 17" from the nut but the B-string requires an extra 1/2" of length to make that 12th fret fundamental sound in tune. Fascinating! Jimmy J | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 725 Registered: 9-2008 |
Talking about special design strings, does anybody here have ever tried those Hellborg signature strings from DR? | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 509 Registered: 5-2002 |
I haven't tried the Hellborgs, but boy do they look interesting! I hope somebody has and can chime in. In particular, I'm curious how well they work on an instrument like an Alembic which doesn't have a piezo. I guess part of the story here is that only the core wire is magnetic. David Fung |
