| Author | Message | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 131 Registered: 2-2003 |
http://www.basscentral.com/alembicbass/price.shtml Has anyone heard anything else about this... - Tom | ||
| poor_nigel
Advanced Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 330 Registered: 7-2003 |
Well, this could change some of my plans for this summer. Best to wait and see which 'items' 'departments' 'services' are affected before changing plans, but a good thing to know ahead of time. Will the market bear an @ $15,000 starting price for a Series II instrument? Forgot to turn on my grammar checker. (Message edited by poor_nigel on October 26, 2004) | ||
| bsee
Advanced Member Username: bsee Post Number: 389 Registered: 3-2004 |
Amen - that's a hefty bump that would eliminate any benefits from monthly specials starting in January. I really hope we get a nice special in November or December if this is really going to happen. That, and I better make up my damn mind about ordering a four or five string in a hurry too... | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2004 |
Already ordered #11! Birds gotta fly, Dannos gotta feed the addiction! Any of you here working without any raises? I'm union so I pass that on to Santa Rosa! Danno | ||
| poor_nigel
Advanced Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 333 Registered: 7-2003 |
Actually, there are those of us here who have suffered loss of or lowered income. | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 132 Registered: 2-2003 |
Its just going to take a little longer to pass it on to Santa Rosa. I still see a new Alembic in my future... not too far down the line. - Tom | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 167 Registered: 3-2004 |
So did I for a number of years. Laid off, company left the state, not eligible for any services. So I took any work that was going. Worked full time hours while going to school delivering construction supplies. I still work 2 and 3 jobs 6 to 7 days a week and have done so for several years. I even share my opportunities with others who need to make extra money so in turn I make less on the same jobs. I do what I have to do in order to do what I want to do. I will continue to support the Wickershams no matter what the cost out of affection not necessity. I truly believe that if the product could be delivered without any increase, it would. (most folks think I'm nuts for buying these things, but some of them have vettes) I genuinely hope and pray that the fortunes of all who love this company will prosper and thrive and increase in the near future. In addition may everyone enjoy good health and peace as well. Danno | ||
| gare
Member Username: gare Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2003 |
"raises?" Whats that ? I think the economy is in for a rough ride the next four to six months what with the middle east situation, oil prices, etc. Not to go off on a thing, but all this affects living and running a business. The small businesses feeling the most pressure. Price increases are an unfortunate part of staying in business. Of course we all know this. I dont think any business wants to raise prices and risk loosing potential customers. But out of necessity.... I would again buy Alembic product(s) regardless of an increase..as circumstances permit. Danno..Nigel..best of luck. I do believe things will change for the better for all of us, it's just may take a little while. Gary | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2002 |
iPERSONALLY THINK ALEMBICS ARE WAY OVERPRICED.YES THEY ARE MAGNIFICENT INSTRUMENTS FOR SURE,BUT THEY DO NOT WARRENT THE KIND OF PRICE TAG THEY ENDURE.I THINK THE LOW END MODELS ARE THE BIGGEST CULPRETS,THE CONSTRUCTION TECHNEQUES ARE BASIC.REAL BASIC.EVERITHING IS DESIGNED FOR SPEED OF PRODUCTION.AND THE SOUND IS AVERAGE.I HAVE HAD ROGUES,A STANLEY CLARKE SIG. MODEL,AND I USED TO OWN THE MOODEY BLUES SATINWOOD MAPLE BOARD SERIES 1.SO I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THESE INSTRUMENTS.WHEN I FIRST PURCHASED MY FIRST ALEMBIC[ROGUE] FROM THE BASS CENTER IN LONDON,IT CAME SHIPPED WITH 45/105 STRINGS. I CHANGED TO MY PREFERED SET OF 40/100.THE NECK WAS TOO STRAIGHT,SO I TOOK IT BACK TO THE STORE,AND THEY TRIED TO LOOSEN THE TRUSS RODS BUT THE WERE AS LOOSE AS THEY COULD GO.SO TO GET RID OF THE BUZZING THEY HAD TO FILE/DRESS THE FRETS.BUT STILL IT BUZZED.SO I SWAPPED THE BASS FOR ANOTHER ROGUE,AND GUESS WHAT?THE SAME PROBLEM.SO I ORDERED A STANLEY CLARKE AND GOT IT A MONTH LATER,AND THE SAME PROBLEM. I SPOKE TO ALEMBIC AND THEY SAID THAT THEY SET THE BASSES TO 45/105 TENSION.NOW FOR A £4000 BASS[IN 1997] YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHANGE STRING GUAGES AND ADJUST THE NECK ACCORDINGLY.I HAD THE BASS 2 MONTHS AND SOLD IT AT A LOSS.I THEN CAME ACCROSS THE MOODEY BLUES BASS AND WAS BLOWN AWAY BY THE SOUND AND BOUGHT IT.AFTER A WHILE I NOTICED INTONATION PROBLEMS,AND ADJUSTD THE BRIDGE,BUT IT WAS ADJUSTED AS FAR AS IT WOULD GO.IT WAS WAY OUT.I TOOK IT TO A KNOWN REPAIR MAN AND THE PROBLEM WAS THEN OBVIOUS.WHEN ALEMBIC CONSTRUCTED THE BASS THE ROUTING FOR THE SUSTAIN BLOCK WAS NOT FAR ENOUGH FORWARD,SO WHEN YOU ADJUSTED THE BRIDGE SADDLES THEY COULDNT GO FAR ENOUGH FORWARD TO GET PEFRECT INTONATION.BUMMER.SO YOU PLAY 11TH FRET ON THE G STRING WHILST PLAYING AN OPEN D STRING THE SOUND WOULD OSSOLATE.BIG TIME. SO I THOUGHT,SOD IT THE BASS HAS GOTTA GO.I HAVNT HAD ONE SINCE.[AND I KNOW ALEMBIC HAVE HAD STRAIGHT NECK PROBS BRFORE] | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2003 |
Sorry to hear about all the issues you have had with your Alembics, but this is definitely not the norm. And like you allude to in the opening sentence of your rant. it is a personal opinion (and should be respected) But...... Please take the cap key from your computer keyboard and destroy it, not only is it rude but its hard to read. - Tom | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2002 |
HEY,I WAS NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE!RANT?MAYBE BLUNT IS A BETTER TERM.I HAVE KEPT MY DISSAPOINTEMENT TO MYSELF FOR SOME YEARS NOW,AND WHEN I SAW THE WORDS 'PRICE INCREASE' I THOUGHT-COME ON! | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 134 Registered: 2-2003 |
its just that when you use all CAPS like that it seems like you are shouting and not really trying to be a part of the conversation. I can sympathize with you though.. really. I would be upset at spending all that money and having major issues like you have had as well. I have not had the problems you have encountered, but I would think that if you would have contacted Susan or Mica at the time that they would have tried to make it as right as they could for you. - Tom | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 102 Registered: 7-2004 |
Paul: I am not a bass player, so I won't even begin to respond to your complaints about string gauge, etc. I have, however, visited the factory several times and am a regular on this site. I therefore feel compelled to respond to your allegation that "THE LOW END MODELS ARE THE BIGGEST CULPRETS,THE CONSTRUCTION TECHNEQUES ARE BASIC.REAL BASIC.EVERITHING IS DESIGNED FOR SPEED OF PRODUCTION" I have certainly heard people complain about Alembic prices before (actually, there are few things in life that I haven't someone complain about it's price), but your's is the first time I have EVER heard ANYONE complain that Alembics are built TOO FAST!!!! My observations and experience is that nothing could be further from the truth. You want to see "speed of production". I've seen video of the Gibson plant, and even the PRS factory where instruments are being manufactured infinitely faster than anything I've seen at Alembic. At the other factories, machines do most of the work as an assembly line of guitars moves through the plant. At Alembic there is a workshop with a few talented people doing it all by hand. As for the "low end models", I have an '83 Electrum which was one of the more modestly priced guitars. The workmanship is stunning and far more impressive than my Fender, Gibson, or PRS. And it plays and sounds great too! I am sure your experience was not encouraging. I would sugest that if you ever have a problem with an Alembic again, going straight to the company first rather than to a private repair shop. Alembic stands behind its products better than any company I've ever dealt with. Bill, tgo | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2002 |
I AM SORRY IF I UPSET ANYONE.THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS I HAVE KEPT THIS TO MYSELF.LOOK I STILL LOVE ALEMBICS.I AM STILL INTERESTED IN THESE INSTRUMENTS.WHY WOULD I BE LOOKING AT THE SITE?I JUST HAD A BAD TIME WITH THEM.IN BRITAIN THEY ARE CLASSED AS THE ROLLS ROYS OFF BASSES[HEY DID I SPELL THAT RIGHT?]I WORKED IN A MUSIC STORE FOR 5 YEARS IN ENGLAND AND WE DEALT WITH SECOND HAND ALEMBICS FROM TIME TO TIME.I HAVE ALSO OWNED COUNTLESS BASSES OVER THE YEARS,AND SEEN LOTS OF DIFFERENT MAKES E.T.C.I JUST THINK THAT ALEMBIC RIDE ON SEPERATE PLANE FROM OTHER BRANDS BECAUSE OF THEIR STATURE.WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT PRS GUITARS, I HAVE SEEN SOME WORKS OF ART,GIBSON IS A DIFFERENT BALL GAME ALTOGETHER,THEY ARE MASS PRODUCED.IF I WOULD HAVE HAD MY PROBLEMS WITH JUST ONE BASS,THEN I WOULDNT HAVE'RANTED'BUT I GAVE ALEMBIC THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT,YOU COULD SAY. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 2031 Registered: 6-2000 |
Paul, I'm disappointed I never heard from you about problems you had with your basses until now, else we could have addressed your concerns. Now, we'll never get the opportunity. These days we ship everything to England with the extra-light strings preferred by players in your country. Some other players were forthcoming with the problems and that allowed us to correct service issues associated with setting up a bass with lower-tension strings. I respectfully disagree with your opinion that our basses are built for speed of production. I think there are more than a few makers in our shop that also would not share your opinion. As for the bridge on the Satinwood bass, I have never been contacted by any owner or repair shop about this. I don't doubt your observations, but I wonder why nobody has asked for assistance with this. I can think of at least 2 ways that this can be corrected easily, and can offer that it is my observation that we learn from our mistakes and improve the product over time. Newer Alembics are superior in quality and are more consistent than earlier ones - it's only natural as we get more experience. If you ever do find yourself in possession of an Alembic again, and if you have any problems with its use, please do not hesitate to contact us for assistance. I still keep the picture you sent to me in my office. Sincerely, Mica | ||
| kenbass4
Intermediate Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2003 |
Paul (slacker42uk, there's a lot of Pauls here) I can assure you that the "low end" models are NOT built quickly, or with any less attention than the Series instruments. Last year I had a custom Rogue built for me. I ordered it in October, received it in January. The bass performes FLAWLESSLY. Currently, I have an Excel on order, and I believe it will be December before it is completed. The Excel is their lowest price bass model, but I certainly wouldn't refer to it as "cheap", either in price or quality. I have to agree with Bill in that if you had contacted Mica or Susan, they would have done everything humanly possible to make it right. But I certainly do understand your frustration with making such a commitment and not getting what you wanted. Ken (TEO) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 2033 Registered: 6-2000 |
Oh yeah - one minor correction - the price increase is slated for January 5th. | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2002 |
O crap,yeah and i have that exact picture on the wall above my computer.look i feel awful.i was just so dissapointed at the time.the bass center gave me only £800 for the bass[the stanley clarke]on a part exchange,saying that they couldnt give me anymore because it was a custom made instrument.i was dissheartened big time.i 'spose anti alembic for a while.as far as speed or production-i take it back.i stand corrected.in fact i wish i never opened my mouth. | ||
| effclef
Advanced Member Username: effclef Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2004 |
Paul/Slacker4UK's message posted at 12:08PM. Mica Wickersham's response: 12:56PM. Doesn't that say something about the _company_? At any rate, Paul, if the buzzing problem had been solved, would you have kept the bass? In other words, was it what you would have liked otherwise? And were these used, or new? Anyway, if you ever get an Alembic in your hands again, don't quit until someone at the factory tries to make it perfect for you. I bet they can. EffClef | ||
| effclef
Advanced Member Username: effclef Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2004 |
Don't run away, Paul! It's just that the statement of several different basses not working out for you comes as a surprise to the user group. Posts like yours are things the factory should be interested in hearing...as you can tell from Mica's message, they've changed what they send to the UK based on what the users want to put on them. That's called engineering...feedback is a must. Stick around! EffClef | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 135 Registered: 2-2003 |
effclef is right ... dont feel bad. you are entitled to vent. Ill just say welcome to the club ...and be gone - Tom | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 470 Registered: 11-2003 |
One of the things about freedom of choice is that we have the freedom to buy or not buy whatever we are able to afford. I choose to spent my dimes on Alembic because for me, they're the finest instruments available at any price. I feel that way because of my experiences I've had with them. Also, I realize that it is impossible to please everyone, hence the multitude of high end instruments availble. That being said, I find it difficult to paint anything with as broad a brush as Paul seems comfortable with. Hey Paul, I'm sorry that you've had such an unpleasant experience with Alembic. I guess you're the exception that proves the rule. Take care, Play well | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1729 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey huys ...did I miss all the fun??? Do we have a new Paul?? Paul the capital one!!!! Welcome ...welcome! I think no one of us will deny that Alembic guitars -the basses and the other thin stringed appendices- are expensive. As far as I can speak after playing a bunch of basses: the Alembics I tried were worth the money. BEWARE it is NOT RATIONAL. I said before: there is no RAESONABLE (where the ratio = intellect) argument for buying an Alembic of 18K $. Although I am convinced that everybody here in this club can invent 10 EMOTIONAL arguments why he loves to play her/his Alembic. On that moment a price evaluation becomes VERY ...huh ..."tricky" (I dunno if that's good English). BTW ...it workes in two directions: personally I have no REASONABLE argument to keep "Broomstick" (=my crappy Korean Squier Jazz bass, sounding as a broomstick on a washthub) but , for one or another emotional thing I am hooked onto that piece of wood. I payed 100$!! Oh well ...I am glad someone brought up some messy Alembic stuff in this hail-and-glory choir of low frequency addicts. Hehehe ...if we keep on communicating like this ....this world would be a better place Paul the bad one | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2002 |
laters | ||
| gare
Member Username: gare Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2003 |
Welcome Paul the capital one. Sorry to hear about your problems. Gary | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2003 |
Paul, As someone who currently owns ten bass guitars of various makes (two Alembics, one Pedulla, two Gibsons, two Fenders, one Rickenbacker, one Musicman, and one Ovation Acoustic Electric), I think I can say with honesty that Alembics are the finest I've ever owned, period. And my string of choice is Rotosound RS66LC, .40-95. I use them on my Europa with no buzzing, and no problems. I do use (currently, anyway) GHS .40-100 on my Spyder, simply because they fit (they sound fairly good, but I prefer Rotosound). In both cases, my basses adjusted to the different string tension with no problem. I second Mica's assertion that the most recent Alembics take into account the preference on some players' part for lighter gauge strings. BTW, my Spyder is a 2003, as is my Europa. I've never ordered a bass from Alembic (I was lucky and someone had exactly what I was looking for), so I can't comment on how long it takes to make one. However, there is ample evidence that Alembic is anything but mass-produced-production-line-fast. Why? It takes time to build instruments with the exact tolerances that Alembics have. As I said, I have lots of different basses, some expensive, some not so expensive, and others downright cheap. The Alembics, in terms of quality and craftsmanship, stand head and shoulders above them all. One other thing ... my Europa had a problem with the pan pot. Seems it didn't work. One might say, well, for that kind of money, it should, and I would agree. But we've all bought a car for a substantial amount of money, and there is always something that isn't quite right. That is the nature of things created by humans - they have the potential of being slightly imperfect. Anyway, Mica sent me one set of electronics, but the jack wasn't the correct one (they upgraded the jacks they use to a higher quality one - imagine that!). When I pointed this out, within a week I had a new set of electronics. I've not had the chance to install them (yes, you can do that yourself since it is modular - try doing that with a Fender, a Gibson, etc.), but I'm sure it will be fine. You pay for more than just an instrument when you buy an Alembic - you pay for commitment, pride, and art. If that's not your thing, that's cool. Wish it had all worked out for you, and I hope you give Alembic another try. My guess is you won't be disappointed. For my part, I am an enthusiastic Alembic owner and supporter of the company. Sure, it's expensive, but you get what you pay for - commitment, pride, and art. And that's something you can't always put a price on. My two cents, Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 103 Registered: 7-2004 |
Paul the bad one: "Paul the capital one" literally had me laughing out loud at my desk. If humor awards are ever given out on this site, you will definitely be in the finals. Bill, the guitar one | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 168 Registered: 3-2004 |
I love all my children. I ordered 6 out of 10 and the 11th was just put in. I orderd them sight unseen including a used Distillate from Santa Rosa. The factory to customer is a fantastic tool for gearheads despite the extra work that it creates for Mica et.all. I have several models from low to midprice. No 1's or 2's yet. They all surpass the non Alembics I own, Rick, Gibson, Ovation. When a custom ordered spoiler 6 w/ initials was not quite what I wanted, it was accepted back and a new one made with tremendous skill. The former went on tour with Enrique Eglesias. I have waited as long as 14 months (I think). But when the basses arrived I was pleased as punch! (also growl, slap, twang etc.) No one likes to have to pay more for something but it is a necessary evil. It has pushed me to make an order more than once which I have never regreted. Again I wish for great health, wealth and success to all who wish to own these instruments. Danno | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 465 Registered: 6-2002 |
Slacker42uk, It's Rolls Royce. Aren't you from England? I am a Rolls Royce/Bentley freak too, btw. I have heard that the folks in your neck of the woods use lighter gauge strings. I do too sometimes! I have had no problems with adjusting my basses to accept the lighter gauge strings. Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with your basses. If you lived near where I am, I would have graciously done a set up on your bass just to have the chance to gawk at it. Michael | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 963 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bill; what had me rolling on the floor was when Paul the Belgian one remarked, "I am glad someone brought up some messy Alembic stuff in this hail-and-glory choir of low frequency addicts". | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1731 Registered: 9-2002 |
Prizes?! Prizes?! I LOOOOOOOOVE prizes!!!! Never got one ever! Although ...if I may indicate the most funny intervenience on this site the winner would be Brother James "Malthumb" when he came into the "Black, short and handsome" thread. When I think of it it always makes me "Laugh Out Loud " =LOL Paul the bad one | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2002 |
back when i ordered my alembic the web site was not up and running like it is now,and i didnt have a computer at the time anyway.i now know that if it were now,things would be a lot different.the bass center didnt help very much,just wanting to see the back of me i suppose.but there you go. again,my appologies for putting anyones back up. regards Paul ROLLS _ROYS | ||
| pace
Member Username: pace Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2004 |
Back to the topic at hand~ throughout the 90's it seemed like all the 'major' american brands had a 15% increase every year!!!! The market for Alembics is not as lucrative as other brands (we know the MSRP, we know the average discount). I doubt this increase is lining the pockets of our friends in Santa Rosa, but at the same time take a look at how busy the factory is right now with custom orders alone!!! They have a lot on their plate right now, and they're doing anything but rushing them out! It's the simple economic principle of supply and demand. A lot of people (myself included) have been turned on to Alembic in the past few years. To keep the quality control in check and keep the amount of new orders to a reasonable number then the increase is justified. I guess it negates the next Coco Bolo special we've all been waiting for....  | ||
| mgirouard3
Junior Username: mgirouard3 Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2004 |
After reading all of these posts, I feel I have to say something! I love my Alembic Essence. It is one of the finest basses I have ever played in my entire life. The workmanship is impeccable and the tones that I can achieve range from heavy bass that will blow a band away to an almost baritone guitar tone with the eq set very “toppy”. The one thing I must say however: is that due to the price increases since I bought my Alembic back in 1996, the price has gone from an “affordable” to an “unaffordable” for most bass players. I’m sure this is no fault to Alembic as they have to keep up with the ever increasing cost of wood and labor. Now it seems that only the rich can afford an Alembic. This saddens me as I see kids pick up a crappy bass that was made in a mass production line, try to play it, but being that it is of such poor quality and so hard to play they give up. Hopefully if times improve, I hope Alembic can make a quality bass that the brunt of the population can afford. No one should go through life playing anything but! | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 965 Registered: 5-2002 |
Maxime; as I have not had even my first cup of coffee yet, I am going to disagree or question a few of your comments. Perhaps after the coffee's ready I'll see things more clearly  First, who are most bass players? To state that most bass players could afford an Essence in 1996, but that most cannot now, just doesn't seem reasonable. I would imagine that in 1996 there were quite a large number of bass players, especially those in their early to mid twenties, who could not afford an Essence. I would guess that most bass players in 1996 were buying basses that cost less than $1,000. These would be the Fender, Ibanez, Yamaha, Peavey, etc. that make up most of the stock of music stores and mail order catalogues. I'm thinking many of these players were working low paying jobs and had very little disposable income. And I'm thinking they were looking to pay less than maybe $700 for a bass. On the other hand, I would think that Alembic and other high end builders are selling more basses at the current Essence price or higher now than they were in 1996 at the 1996 Essence prices. With the ageing of the "baby boomers", there are more "older" folks who've been saving their money over a longer lifespan, and who are inclined to buy high end electric basses, now than there were in 1996. Second, I don't think it reasonable, given my above statements about the economic resources of most younger players, to expect the same quality of instrument if Alembic sold a bass that the majority of players could afford. Most players are buying basses that cost less than $1,000. It would seem to me that one reason Alembics are of such high quality is that they are built in a small shop of very talented artisans. If they sold a high quality bass for less than a $1,000, the waiting time for a new bass would be decades. To accommodate the demand for $1,000 Alembics, the company would have to hire more workers, which would mean a decrease in the quality of the work. Third; I don't agree that "no one should go through life playing anything but" an Alembic. There are a number of builders that make very nice instruments. Not only are there lots of quality high end builders such as Fodera and Sadowsky, but there are good quality lower priced "production line" basses as well. For example, I don't think that you should be "saddened" to see someone playing a Warwick. Finally, there are quite a lot of bass players who play bass just for the pleasure of being on stage. They don't care to sit at home and practice. They are proficient enough to handle the relatively easy lines that are required for the set list their band plays. They are perfectly happy with a Fender and the free beer the bar provides. Well the coffee should be ready by now. | ||
| mgirouard3
Junior Username: mgirouard3 Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hi Dave, I specificaly used quotations on the word affordable because I know the term is realative to point of view you are looking at. Here's an example, young kid fresh out of the military, has a low paying job, wants bass. Goes to music store, sees bass for sale for around $2000.00 Applies for financing, gets approved, goes home with a big smile and nice new bass. The thirty dollars a month I was paying, I would have to say was affordable. However, same bass now brand new goes for $8000.00 If financed, the same thrity dollars a month would take 23 years to pay off. The only option would be to pay a lot more. Also I don't think most credit firms will not finance $8000.00 to a 20yr old for a bass. I completly understand what you are saying though. It was a vague description and wrong of me to group everyone into my group. Also now that I think about it, I agree with what you are saying about making less costly basses. I guess I got in at a good time, like those guys that contributed to the 401K when it first came out. | ||
| gare
Member Username: gare Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2003 |
Paul..TBO 'everybody here in this club can invent 10 EMOTIONAL arguments why he loves to play her/his Alembic.' I can only come up with 7 so far: because it's Monday,Tuesday,Wednesday,Thursday,Friday,Saturday,Sunday..yup that's 7. I'll have a beer and do some more thinking. But seriously, nobody has actually asked or stated exactly what the increases are on ? So I will..what are they ? Is it for everything across the board ? The base model ? The options ? I think this is kind of relative, what could you do with a dollar in '96 compared to now ? How much is a gallon of gas in the US now ? It's $1.84 a gallon more than when I first started driving (uh oh, just dated myself). Quality materials and craftsmanship dont come cheap and I think the majority of people here will continue to spend to get what they want. | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 481 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gary, You forgot January, February, March, April.....etc. When I first started driving, gas was 29.9 cents a gallon.... Holy CRAP! I'm OLD! | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 108 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hey guys: I remember 35 cents/gallon gas, 35 cents cigarettes, 12 cent hamburgers and 10 cent fries at the "Carols" (we didn't have McDonalds or any other fast food chain yet). I wonder what an Alembic would have cost then? (Mom, where's my time machine?). Alembics are like many other products: the final 10% in quality is responsible for 90% of the price. A Ferrari is a LITTLE faster than a corvette, but costs a LOT more. A high quality off-the-rack suit might run $750-$1500, but go to a tailor for a custom handmade suit of the finest fabric and you're going to pay quite a bit more. With an ALembic you get not just a guitar or bass, you get a work of art and an example of a fine level of craftmanship that is fast disappearing from the face of the earth. For example, if anyone wears cowboy boots they have probably noticed that the quality of boots, across virtually all the brands, has significantly diminished in the past few years. As for guitars, I'd put my '68 Gibson ES-335 up against anything coming out of Gibson today. The important thing is to remember that we are not getting old. We are merely increasing in value! (& needing glasses). Bill, the guitar one | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 1736 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Hollis, naaaaaaaaaah ... as the serious musician I take you for you should know that we musicians NEVER go OLD ...we "mature", we are getting "experienced" but NEVER old! Paul the bad one | ||
| flaxattack
Intermediate Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2004 |
well all i can say is my "assembly line" orion 5 IS the best bass i have ever owned- i ahve changed strings a dozen times since april( checking out sounds) and not once has my neck moved one rats hair. been playing electric bass for over 35 years. I have owned over 15 various basses in my lifetime-Did i pay more money than i should have? maybe. wanted to? yeah- but does anything else sound like an alembic? not to my ears. nor to my bandmates. thats why i plunked down major money to have my own custom made bass. and if prices are indeed going up- well my investment and current bass just increased in value. nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you buy an alembic- your ears do | ||
| lowlife
Intermediate Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 147 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jeff (flaxattack), you've said exactly what I was thinking. I am in total agreement with your words. I choose to purchase Alembic instruments, period! Ellery (Lowlife) | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 482 Registered: 11-2003 |
Thanks brother Paul TBO, I needed that! Holy CRAP! Am I experienced!...... | ||
| gare
Member Username: gare Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hollis I over looked those,thanks for the reminder,told you I needed a lager. Gas was 26 cents when I was turned loose on the general public,sometimes it was 23 when the stations had the mini gas wars. Cruise for 2 nites on 2 bucks. Now we all need to get our nomenclature together: none of us are getting old, but we are getting older. It sounds better. Experience is also an excellent replacement. Gray hair ? Ah,pardon me,that's platinum if you please. Belly ? No, sorry, that's just an effect from gravitational forces. Happy halloween e'ryone | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 484 Registered: 11-2003 |
I guess if we consider the Sun a relatively young Star.... And I understand the Hawaiian Islands aren't too many thousands of years old, babies by Earths standards...... Hey! I'm feeling younger all the time..... Wonder if the guy at the liquor store will card me? (Message edited by hollis on October 29, 2004) | ||
| rraymond
Intermediate Member Username: rraymond Post Number: 152 Registered: 6-2002 |
What I haven't seen mentioned here is, that as Alembic has raised prices through the years they've also added to the basic feature sets of the various models. For example, all the models have an accent veneer now; my '80 Series 1 is maple on mahogany (it's still beautiful, of course.) That's a cool way of cushioning the blow of a price increase! Thought I'd toss that out there, have fun all... | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 637 Registered: 9-2003 |
Just for sh*ts and giggles: for those of us that missed what the old prices were, what was the percentage of increase of MSRP when the prices were raised last time ca. April '03? | ||
| bsee
Advanced Member Username: bsee Post Number: 395 Registered: 3-2004 |
Beware - various ramblings ahead.... The down side of this increase is that the "entry level" Alembic will now have a base price of about $3K, and the lowest-priced neck-thru bass will be over $4K. The Orion guitar will go from $3200 to $3700 or so. That's a big jump to occur all at once, and it's especially tough on the guitar side where Alembic is already a rarity in the market. Taking the previous increase into account, an Alembic purchased in 2/2005 will be approximately 26.5% more expensive that one purchased in 2/2003. It's true that there was some period of time before the 2003 increase and that there's likely to be some period of time before the next one, but that's a pretty steep change for a time during which inflation is supposedly pretty low. In fact, over the past ten years the inflation rate has hovered around an average of 2.5% annually. Fuel prices have been crazy recently, and if they are the primary cause of this increase, does that mean the price increase will roll back if gas prices drop again? It is my belief that the electronics package is the true wizardry of Alembic that no one else can duplicate. Yes, the instruments are beautiful end to end, but there are other luthiers who build well, too. They can get similar woods and carve/glue some nice instruments, but they can't match the electronics. Am I going to have to go to someone else to build my custom with a set of Signature electronics that I buy from Alembic because I will save 30% or more in doing so? Maybe even buy something like a Peavey TL-5 and order up a set of electronics for it, which would save me even more? I do not believe that Alembic should have a need to raise prices at this point. As a consumer, I would rather see Alembic back off on the value of monthly specials and close some of the pricing loopholes that create inequity in the system. I have noticed that recent specials haven't been as appealing, and maybe that's just luck of the draw. In any case, I think the system would be more fair if everyone paid the right price rather than some buyers getting special deals and other picking up the tab. I, for one, have been waiting a long time for one of two monthly specials to come around before placing my order. I don't know if these specials are even still in the hat at this point. I didn't receive a straight answer when I asked, but it would be very interesting to know if things like 50% off two options and 20% of instrument value applied to options are still in the hat. If I knew they weren't I would have ordered already. I may end up waiting a long time for nothing. If I end up forced to place my order in December or January 3rd in order to get the "avoid 15% price increse" special, it will significantly reduce the quality of my customer experience. To be concise, I am saying that Alembic has lost business over recent months because of this monthly special policy. The difference for me between the right special and a meaningless one would be around $2000 at list price. Wouldn't you think that eliminating this would eliminate the need to bump prices? Also, regarding the specials, I have a recollection of when this policy appeared. I thought the deal was that there were a finite handful of specials in the hat, and that once pulled, the special would drop out of circulation for several months before returning. I don't remember the exact specifics. In any case, you could be reasonably confident that a special you were waiting for would come up within a year. Specials that would have triggered my purchase came up three times in 2002 and three more in 2003, but have not appeared in 2004. My bad luck, or did they fall out of the hat? While knowing ahead of time what next month's special will be might not be good for business, I do believe that it would be fair and reasonable for us to know what has a chance of coming up, especially if these specials are still chosen at random. Also, there's an inequity that lets you build the exact same instrument for different prices depending upon which model you start your customizations from. The difference can be on the order of five to ten percent, and is again at the mercy of the monthly special. In my Alembic pricing world, you would be able to select your body shape, woods, electronics package, and other options and end up with a single price. Then, Alembic would be able to name the bass according to the feature set. An MK deluxe ordered with S2 electronics would be named and priced accordingly. As an example, why should the difference in price between purpleheart and ebony laminates on a signature deluxe be $1250, but only be $1050 if you start from a signature standard? Also, there are some options that are related. In particular, the body shape can put restrictions on electronics and neck length. This creates an odd restriction on Essence and SC basses. An SC must have a short neck, but it can have a different body which should allow it to have a longer neck. An Essence can't have Series electronics, but it can have a different body shape that would allow it. I guess my point is that it is that the way customizations are presented seems inconsistent and abusable. To get back to the main point, I believe that cleaning up the option policies and shrinking the monthly specials should provide enough of an increase in net to eliminate the need for a price increase at this time. I also fear that the backlash from this price increase could reduce future demand enough that the overall result could be negative, but that would take a lot of data I don't have to evaluate. Just my opinion and no offense intended to anyone, especially the good folks at Alembic. I still have three chances to catch the right special if they pull it early enough in January (Maybe they will pull January's a week early and let us select from either of the two specials for the last week of the year as a pre-increase holiday gift)... -Bob | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 640 Registered: 9-2003 |
You're not alone, Bob. I waited for that 20%-off special to order my Custom Orion and I've been waiting for it to re-appear to order my guitar. I hope it pops up before the increase as that represents a CONSIDERABLE savings on a high-dollar instrument: enough of a savings to make the affordability of my purchase a reality. Cheapskates like me live for specials like that, LOL! | ||
| bsee
Advanced Member Username: bsee Post Number: 396 Registered: 3-2004 |
hmm... I have received private messages questioning my numbers relative to the 4/2003 price increase. My recollection was that it was about 10%, though I am told that some items went up by significantly more. Not that it really matters at this point. It is what it is, and it will be what it will be. | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 169 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hey folks, like the lottery, you gotta be in it to win it! I always look for the led special. It's the luck of the draw you see. Also consider the cost increases passed on by supplies for fuel and energy. It now costs more to get that cocobolo out of the forest and cut it into slabs then it did a while ago. UPS etc. charges more to deliver any raw components and the list goes on. Health insurance cost more. In Cali, the taxes on small business are perverse! I mean PERVERSE! These folks are keeping the jobs in America. Cha ching! We usually get paid more on average than folks in other than the first world. We don't have to explain to someone that our bass wasn't the one made in Korea, "no really you can tell by the serial number"! OK we do have to explain that it's not Greek. "No! Not like the games torch thing, more like the Wizard, alchemist thing.... Merlin....you ever heard of him? Oh never mind. It still kicks major tail!" I suppose that all this venting is moot. My deposit is down, my specs are noted and Susan is gracious enough to make a vision I have come to stunning reality (after it gets to the other artists there). So....... if I have to wait a bit, so be it. I locked in the price because I Want This Bass. I can get endorsements. Don't want em'. Could I make money playing something else, maybe. I save that for the amp deal. Just not Peavy! ( Don't hex me so that I get offered that) But alas I must return to my Ramen Noodles so I can save for the body inlay on #11. "Can't sleep......gotta work for the bass....can't sleep.......gotta work for the bass. Cool, I have Sunday off to play my basses! Only 69 hours this week. Hardly like work at all. Peace and prosperity to you all. Danno | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 336 Registered: 9-2002 |
Folks, ALEMBIC is a business. The best always costs more. And a small business dealing in exotic, handbuilt one-offs, employing a cadre of artists using dreadfully expensive hardwoods and mil-spec electronics will hardly fit the business model of a streamlined production house using considerably down-market materials and less expensive personnel. Overlay these parameters over the usual small business problems, and this is not hard to understand at all. I hardly think anyone who is in the position to commission a $5-$20k instrument is gonna suddenly go somewhere else for a grand difference in price, IF they MUST have an ALEMBIC. These are VERY specialized pieces, and they are NOT for everybody. For those like me, I'm happy to let the market take its course. Time will tell what the traffic will bear, and of course they are terrific buys in the used market. Remember, Dusenberg remained back ordered at the height of the Great Depression. Bosendorfers are back ordered now. People still custom-order new Browning Superposed over and unders for several multiples of their original price. Quality and service and ingenuity are more and more rare in this world. But there will always be a market for the very best. J o e y | ||
| flaxattack
Intermediate Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2004 |
being in sales for 30 yrs, i love when the customer thinks they can drive the bus... | ||
| bsee
Advanced Member Username: bsee Post Number: 398 Registered: 3-2004 |
Jeff, it seems you're probably talking about my post. What I know at this point is that I said what I felt, in particular that the current situation is having a negative impact on my buying decision. If that isn't critical information to a sales team, I don't know what is. Additionally, I have received support for my position and ideas, both publicly and privately. It seems that there are a few people unwilling to speak their minds publicly for fear of abuse and/or sanctions. I suspect that several of us here have a great deal of experience in business. Experience in sales, service and customer retention. One would think from your post that in 30 years of sales you never heard a productive idea from one of your customers. One thing I have learned is that there are very few mind readers in the world. In short, most companies seem to appreciate hearing from their customers rather than trying to make them feel like idiots for speaking up. | ||
| poor_nigel
Advanced Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 336 Registered: 7-2003 |
In the company I work for, everyone drives the bus. From the CEO to the packers of our products to, and particularly, our customers, all input is regarded essential to our success and growth. That is how a company grows, develops goodwill, and can provide their customers with products that match their needs, most closely. I have not spoken up, much, because of a recent, personal event that pretty much makes the whole matter to me a moot point. However, everyone has the right and deserves to voice their own opinions. As far as the situation with the price increase, I agree with Bob. When times get tough, companies need to make tough decisions. Prices can be raised, or selling and/or distribution structure, manufacturing elements, or ways to make the company more efficient can be altered to stay solvent. The company has every right to charge what they feel the market will bear, and consumers have every right to buy or go elsewhere. These are all givens. Dusenberg and Bugatti - probably the most wonderful automobiles that were ever made. Let's hope Alembic does not become the most wonderful instruments that 'were' ever made. Hey, I remembered the high frequency crowd here. Old dog/new trick - good boy! The price increase is a done deal. It was announced publicly. Someone else I agreed with in this thread is Paul TBO – “Oh well ...I am glad someone brought up some messy Alembic stuff in this hail-and-glory choir of low frequency addicts. Hehehe ...if we keep on communicating like this ....this world would be a better place” I did not take this as funny, but as wisdom. Once the messy stuff is out of the way, the fun stuff is what’s left. So let’s discuss/clear the messy and get back to the fun. Note: I may not agree with some opinions expressed, but I do try and see their point. In the end, we all have much more in common here, than in differences - or we would not be members of this club. I especially appreciated Paul's (Slacker42uk) posts, as now that he expressed his frustration, he can move forward and maybe try Alembics that are tweaked for his playing style/needs and change his opinion of them. Welcome Paul. One increase I would love would be in my checking through what I write before hitting the Post button. Old dog - bad boy! (Message edited by poor_nigel on October 30, 2004) | ||
| the_mule
Advanced Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 293 Registered: 1-2004 |
Please don't get me wrong, I love my instruments and respect Alembic as a company, but I'm really disappointed about this price increase. For me personally, it means that normally I won't be able to custom order an Alembic and/or purchase a new Alembic anymore (unless I win a lottery or something). My 1999 Orion, which I bought new, but N.O.S. and therefore priced like before the 2003 increase, would cost me about $2000 more if I would want to buy it after Jan 5th 2005. And that's just a 'plain' standard Orion 4, no custom options at all. From now on, it'll be looking out for 'the one' on the secondhand market. There's nothing wrong with that off course, and I'm aware of the fact that I'm very lucky just to own a few fabulous Alembics already, but taking that final step of ordering one to my (modest) specs and wishes I always dreamed of becomes virtually impossible... Wilfred | ||
| slacker42uk
New Username: slacker42uk Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2002 |
oh mother of crap!i have really started something here! | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 136 Registered: 2-2003 |
Alembic is able to accomplish on a larger scale the same quality (and then some) and choice of options that alot of the smaller builders have you waiting a year for (even the less expensive models). There is a timelessness about there body designs and just the overall Build quality (not to mention that one of a kind tone) that truly make them Special. Is it worth 15% more ... thats a matter personal opinion. But I know that it would not stop me from ordering one again when I am able. Alembic is not the end all be all for me ...but they come damn close! - Tom | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think the bottom line here is the following: 1 - Alembic raised prices because it had to in light of any number of company, business, and world economic (e.g., rising fuel prices) reasons. 2 - Those who've decided that a new Alembic in light of price increases is too rich for their blood will turn to the used market for the "one" instrument they've been looking for as an alternative. 3 - Those who want a new Alembic will buy one, regardless of price, though it may take longer now for most to acquire the funds to make such a transaction possible. 4 - Alembics will remain amongst the finest, if not the finest instruments made as a result of this price increase. Had prices not increased, cuts would have been made somewhere (e.g., laying off workers, cutting corners, etc.) to make business ends meet. And nobody in this club, I think, wants to see that happen. 5 - Customers are always right. If companies don't give the customer what they want, be it features, service, quality, price, etc., customers will go elsewhere. Each customer values something more than another (price vs. quality, service vs. features, etc.) and will make a sacrifice in one area in order to acquire the product whose strengths in another outweigh it. In other words, while an Alembic might be too expensive for one customer, the quality might be the deciding purchase factor for another, price be damned. Some in this club know I plan to become a chef when I retire from the military in a few years. If it's one thing I've learned, it's that the customer is always right (well, most of the time, anyway!). If you look at what we here in America eat, you will find that most people don't necessarily want quality, they want quantity and low prices. This is how you end up with places like Friday's, Applebee's, Outback Steakhouse, etc., who produce lots of food, but not of very high quality at low prices (NOTE: I'm not picking on anyone who patronizes these places here. I don't go to them because I feel for me, personally, the food they produce isn't very good. If others here like them, and happily go there, so be it. It is a personal decision for me only.) They're giving people what they believe (and market research confirms) they want -if they didn't they'd be out of business. Similarly, I think Alembic recognizes this and in order to give musicians what they want (high quality, custom hand made instruments with an individual personality), they have to raise prices in order to maintain the deservedly high reputation they've established. If they don't, word will get out of lowered standards, quality will suffer, and the downward spiral towards mediocrity and eventual loss of business will begin. For me, I would rather pay more, say $2K or so more for an Alembic rather than go and buy three Fenders for that same price. Sure, I'd get three basses, but they wouldn't have the same quality, craftsmanship, and playability that even a "garden variety" Alembic does. Speaking only for myself, I'll take the time to save the money to buy my dream Alembic rather than buy a bunch of cheaper, less quality instruments. As I've said before, one gets what one pays for. And I agree with others that there will always be a market for high quality, custom items. Alembic has nothing to worry about if you ask me. My two cents, Alan | ||
| pas
Junior Username: pas Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2003 |
I had this discussion with Susan when I ordered my custom back in '99. At the time I ordered it, there was a price increase to go in effect at the beginning of the following month - October '99 I believe. As a small business, they really can only go in 1 of 2 directions - more units at less cost - quantity; or a limited number of units at greater cost - quality. One of the things I've always despised about American business in general is the preference for quantity over quality & the false rationalizations or in many instances, outright lying...that you can have both. From a business standpoint, GREED is the driving force behind the quantity over quality quandry. In my mind, Alembic has always stood for uncompromised QUALITY...practically an anachronism in America today. Integrity...what a concept! I feel so strongly about it, that I've been giving them free advertising for the last 20 years - my Virginia license plates - ALEMBIC. I guess my preference for Quality over Quantity is clear. The practical effect of the increase, coupled with a decided downturn in my economic circumstances over the last 2 years has definitely taken me out of the market for the forseeable future. However, it's good to know that when my ship comes in again...so to speak...that Alembic will still be about quality, rather than selling out in order to become a household name. | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 170 Registered: 3-2004 |
I think the price of a Bloomin' Onion has just gone up. As long as they done scrimp on the dipping sauce! Good Luck AJ and thanks for your service to our country.(no joke, seriously thanks) In Jersey I think we can now get 7 letters on our plates. When I get my Vette I'll try to get those plates! Oh well off to another sound job to pay for the black paint! Danno | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 139 Registered: 11-2003 |
Danno, Bloomin Onions are hideously simple to make at home, and usually better. Same goes for the sauce. If you wish to know how, let me know. And I promise not to raise the price! At last, one instance in which you can get quality and quantity at a decent price! :-) Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 111 Registered: 7-2004 |
Alan: Bloomin' Onion, Bloomin' Onion! I want mine with purpleheart lams & LEDS! Seriously though, please tell us: how do you make a Bloomin' Onion? Happy Halloween everyone! Trick or Treat. Bill, t-tgr ("tonight-the Grim Reaper", or as my kid dubbed me when he was 5, "the Green Ripper") | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bill (and all), A Bloomin Onion is not that hard to make at all, actually. You can do a google search for it (type in "bloomin onion" just like that, and a zillion recipes will come up), and go that route if you wish. Bottom line is you take a large onion, and cut small bit of the bulb end off, leaving the root end intact. You then make a series of cuts, vertically, all around the onion, while you have it sitting on its root end. You should have about 12-15 cuts, with slices about 1/2 inch wide (there may be more cuts depending on the size of the onion). Do not cut all the way through the root end; this is what holds it together. At this point, separate out the "petals" you've just created, and then dredge it in flour. Make sure to get flour in and amongst the petals - this is what makes the batter stick to it. Shake off the excess flour (you don't want big globs of flour trapped amongst the petals), and dip the onion into the batter of your choice (again, there are a zillion batters out there, take your pick), drain a bit, and allow it to "set up" a bit in the refrigerator, say 15-20 minutes or so, or up to an hour. Remove from fridge and place into 365-375 degree F oil and deep fry (use a high smoke point oil like peanut, vegetable, etc.). Fry until item floats, and it is GB&D (golden brown and delicious). Remove from oil, and drain on a half sheet pan fitted with a rack (or paper towels if you don't have one). Allow to cool slightly, then cut the core out of the onion (you can do this with a knife, or there are actual "bloomin onion" kits which have a special gadget for this, or use an apple corer), spread the petals apart a bit, season with salt and pepper, and place a small bowl or ramekin of dipping sauce (I make mine out of mayo, ketchup, chili sauce, etc., whatever I have on hand) in the middle, place on plate and watch your friends gasp in awe at your culinary prowess. Yeah, I know, not related to Alembics, but the question was asked. Anyone wanting answers to other culinary questions can email me off the club/list/forum. Now back to the basses! Regards, Alan | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 171 Registered: 3-2004 |
Now that's a tasty and helpful way to end a thread! Thanks, Danno | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 407 Registered: 3-2004 |
Danno, very presumptious of you. I must have missed the announcement that you were now a thread-ending moderator. I'll have to do a search... Another great way to make a very similar dish involves olive oil, a few spices and some bread crumbs. Cut your onion the same way as AJ describes, but spray it with olive oil. Get it good and wet, sprinkle it with some salt and pepper, then liberally with bread crumbs and toss it on the grill. Keep an eye on it and you'll see it naturally open as it cooks. The better job you do of separating out the pieces when you're oiling/breading, the more thorough the coating. You can go back and spray and sprinkle again during the cooking process. Also, Vidalia onions are naturally sweet and the result will be much sweeter than if you try this with a spanish onion. Finally, I'm still not excited about the price increase... | ||
| jlpicard
Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 88 Registered: 7-2002 |
OK, My two cents worth, On a material level, I love Alembics more than anthing on the face of the Earth! The price increase was like a knife in the heart but in the long run will not deter me from getting a Series II someday. I do have one criticism though.I am an amature bass builder for my own use. I have been to local suppliers of hardwood (MacBeath). Have the latest price list from Luthiers Merchantile, been on line at Gilmer Wood ,All Righteous Woods, Cocobolo Inc. etc. I have found some excellent quality but never even came close to finding a $1000 piece of cocobolo! And we're talkin' retail! I am not judging ,just tring to understand. Does Alembic offset their other business expenses this way? Mike the confused one. | ||
| susan
Moderator Username: susan Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike, Understandable why you might be confused, you need to take the thought beyond the board. It's not just the cost of a single board that dictates the price of it or any other part of an instrument for that matter. It's the other related items that determine a price. For example take the cocobolo you mentioned, the floor space 3 tons of cocobolo take up month after month is part of the cost, a board may be 4 or 6 feet long, maybe I could get 4 or more instruments out of it depending on the board widths if we really crammed them and tried to optimize the board. We don't follow that practice. We use only the sweetest spot on a board and if that yields only one or two instruments then what is not used becomes part of the cost of what we do use. Most builders don't use coco bolo because it is difficult to work with unless you have a great deal of experience with it as we do. It can crack, and while the oils in the wood add to its sonic qualities, it makes it harder to accept both glues and finish. Speaking of finish we have to determine the receipe of catalyst/reducer/finish for each coco bolo instrument to make it work. Then typically it takes two weeks longer in finish than other woods and sometimes longer than that. It must then "cure" longer before rub out and have a rest period before buff out and final set up. All of this takes time and labor which is part of the finished product. It also means that you the customer don't have to wonder if your coco bolo instrument will be a beautiful one retain its form and finish into the future. I would also point out you quoted the retail price for coco bolo which obviously is not what Alembic is compensated. I hope this is helpful in increasing the understanding. -susan | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 133 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry to backtrack a bit with this thread, but just to offer some advice to Paul (slacker42uk); if you fancy an Alembic bass again and have any problems with set up due to change of strings (or any other reason), go to Martin Petersen at the Bass Gallery (also known as just the Gallery) in Camden Town. Martin stocks Alembics and has performed minor surgery before where necessary for customers who prefer lighter strings(I believe if the neck is too straight it is just heat treated slightly but don't quote me on that); in fact he advised me when I bought my Stanley Clarke to be aware of the possibility of the problem you described arising; apparently it's not a difficult job. I have yet to come across anyone who is less than amazed by his woodworking skills, and in addition he's generally far cheaper than anyone else I've tried in the UK (and better IMHO)and is a fabulously nice guy to boot. Consider that he makes some of the finest bass guitars in the world himself; I can't think of anything I wouldn't trust him with bass wise. | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 117 Registered: 7-2004 |
Susan: "We don't follow that practice. We use only the sweetest spot on a board and if that yields only one or two instruments then what is not used becomes part of the cost of what we do use." Does this mean we'll get more boxes!!!! Yee ha! Bill, tgo | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 173 Registered: 3-2004 |
I would not want the heady responsibilty of being a board moderator, dispensing judgements on those who are not in keeping with the spirit of this collective. I was under the impression that a lighthearted approach is part of the spirit of this most hallowed domain. If I have offended anyone who does have that authority then I shall offer my appologies to the proper authorities that pay for the server. If ever there is any pronouncement to the effect that I should have any responsibilities connected with this forum, I shall decline in deference to those who say ekki ekki patao and neee-wah. I must away to make my penance with a shrubury. I wonder if Roger is open on election day? Danno | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 118 Registered: 7-2004 |
Danno: Be very careful. That's not an ordinary rabbit! Bill, tgo & I'm a lumberjack! | ||
| adriaan
Advanced Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 383 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'll throw in the closing statement by Richard F. Nixon for good measure. [Uh oh, that should read Richard M. Nixon. Guess I'll be thrown into the river now.] (Message edited by adriaan on November 02, 2004) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 412 Registered: 3-2004 |
I hang out with a guy who is a serious wood-turner. I, too, have noted the significant difference in general wood cost vs. the price list, but was able to understand the difficulties in working some of these pieces from my friend. He was initially surprised that cocobolo would be more expensive than tulipwood based upon the wood cost, but quickly realized that the labor issues would make up the difference. I also remember a discussion of the amount of work that could go into a burl top when they match up and fill any voids with other pieces that look like they were meant to be there. It has to be almost like getting a bunch of inlay work done from a labor perspective. All that said, he's making bowls, pepper mills, vases, and all sorts of cute little things. Unfortunately, the remains of a 1/4" or even 1/2" cocobolo board scraps wouldn't be particularly useful for him except as accent pieces. Between the wood size issue and the fact that Alembic is using the sweetest grain and figure areas of the boards, there is probably very little of the scraps that have much commercial value. That's the price of doing business, and certainly an understandable and acceptable cost when you look at the results! And all that is before you take into account the occasional board that is hiding a flaw that gets exposed when it is cut, or the piece that cracks in spite of the most skilled working efforts. | ||
| flaxattack
Advanced Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2004 |
oh the lament of being craftsmen. i make tiffany lamps as a hobby. like susan said, i could utilize most of a 2x4ft piece of glass,but i too look for "the" piece thats fits my needs and eye. and for that, i end up with app a 40% scrap loss.and then what happens if that special piece breaks? Susan probably rejects more wood than she keeps-and goes through every board.i wont even begin to think about what the boards for my bass cost.thats none of my business. its like trying to figure out what a car costs. what we are paying for is a HAND crafted one of a kind work of art and sound. many companies that buy and hold inventory finance it. if one were to sit back and think about all the premium wood sitting at alembic waiting for homes and what the possible finance charges would be, not to mention costs of doing business, paying luthiers and staff, costs of energy etc. and wood dont grow on trees! D'OH bash me if you like, but while anyone hates to see price increases... buy an alembic or go grab a fender off the shelf. There are still 65 days to buy one at the current levels. | ||
| jlpicard
Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2002 |
Suzan, Thanks for helping me to see the big picture. Besides my love for the beauty and sound that this wood imparts to an instrument, I'm amazed to think that with all the craftsmanship that goes into an Alembic in the first place, you have to go to even greater heights of artistry, skill and cost to make a wood like cocobolo a viable wood for an instrument. I think there's a coco bass in my future! There may be 65 days left to buy one at the current levels, but since we don't know what the December special will be, there is only 29 days left to get the cocobolo for free! Just a thought, Has any one ever considered cocobolo for a neck laminate? Mike | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 508 Registered: 12-2002 |
Glad i bought mine 25 yrs ago! | ||
| jacko
Junior Username: jacko Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2002 |
woo-hoo. got 'management approval last night (after being really nice to her mother) so i'm going to beat the price uplift by a month or so. Just spec'd my 5 string fretless rogue to include the free coco-bolo top laminate and also added purpleheart neck laminates. Now i just have to twiddle my thumbs while the guy in guildford confirms the price and takes my deposit - ih and another 4 months whilst it's being built. Mike - don't know about a coco bolo laminate but the guy in guildford has an orion fretless with a coco bolo fingerboard. very nice it looks too.here's a link to the website picture.. http://www.psst.co.uk/bassworld/alembicbass.htm graeme | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 142 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is for Susan: Susan, Saw the post on using the best parts of a wood blank for a bass, then the rest becomes part of the cost. You may have seen some of my posts in the past where I refer to myself as having culinary aspirations. In light of that vein, allow me to ask the following .. Is it possible to take some of the "scraps" you have from instrument construction and make cutting boards out of them? I've seen the other boards on the website, but it seems to me, if possible, that you could use some of the scraps to make high quality cutting boards, particularly end grain boards. I for one would purchase one. I currently own a John Boos Co. butcher block, made of end grain hard maple (I know what end grain means, but I'm not too keen on the distinction of hard maple), and it's awesome. It would be equally awesome if Alembic could do the same, at least for me personally. Anyway, I threw this out as a thought, realize it might not be possible, and that you and the great folks in Santa Rosa have considered and dismissed this idea before. If so, that's cool. Just thought I'd ask. Best Regards, Alan | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 174 Registered: 3-2004 |
Then we could cut our onions on it so we could use AJ's recipe! Now that is a tasty AND tasteful way to NOT end this thread. Danno - (running for minister of silly walks of Bergen County in 08') | ||
| son_of_magni
Intermediate Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 132 Registered: 1-2004 |
I would be willing to bet that some of most beautiful cutting boards in the world reside at the homes of people who work at Alembic... | ||
| lbpesq
Intermediate Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 129 Registered: 7-2004 |
... and some of the most beautiful Alembics in the world reside at the homes of people with cutting boards! Bill, tgo | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 423 Registered: 3-2004 |
I use plastic cutting boards, but wouldn't play a Dan Armstrong bass. I think that some of the woods might be suitable for making into a light butcher's block cutting board, but others have some toxicity and oils that would leave them inappropriate for the purpose. You just have to pick the right woods. | ||
| zappahead
Intermediate Member Username: zappahead Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2002 |
http://store.yahoo.com/alembic/mapcutboar.html | ||
| pookeymp
Advanced Member Username: pookeymp Post Number: 201 Registered: 7-2002 |
There ya go...I thought I had seen that somewhere on the site. Mikey/ | ||
| locutusofborg10
Junior Username: locutusofborg10 Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2002 |
i'll never be in a position to afford a new Alembic, unfortunately, but after experiencing the support i've gotten from this company for my used instrument anything new in my price range just would be a waste of money. could anyone imagine this kind of support from ford on a used mustang? | ||
| godoze
Junior Username: godoze Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'm thinking of getting a used cutting board... | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 430 Registered: 3-2004 |
I've been looking, and I can't find one that doesn't have all sorts of scratches in it, many of them down to the wood! You'd think people would take better care. Also, make sure the cutting board has the original electronics. Some people just have to "personalize" them with Duncans or Dimarzios and they just don't perform the same. You get what you pay for, unless the seller is a crook... | ||
| wideload
Member Username: wideload Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2003 |
Would ebony lams increase the fundamental of spices chopped on the board? Can I get LED's? Am I bored? 5 o'clock can't get here soon enough! Larry | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 431 Registered: 3-2004 |
LEDs on a cutting board would be really cool! I think I'd go more for the Brown Bass warmth than the ebony fundamental, though. A walnut / maple / mahogany board with a myrtle core would sure lend itself to some warm and comfy foods. | ||
| malthumb
Advanced Member Username: malthumb Post Number: 284 Registered: 5-2002 |
bsee wrote: "....Also, make sure the cutting board has the original electronics. Some people just have to "personalize" them with Duncans or Dimarzios..... " Funny you should say this. I am SERIOUSLY thinking of turning my cutting board (yes I have one) into a wall clock, so I'd definitely be "adding to" the original "electronics". Peace, James | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 971 Registered: 5-2002 |
James; if you set it up right, you can make the action a lot "faster". | ||
| eweise
New Username: eweise Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 |
I ordered my Epic for $1199 brand new in 1997 or 1998. They even upgraded my body style to the orion and added an additional tone switch. I'm interested in getting another epic but fretless. Does anyone know what the street price would be approximately? | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 486 Registered: 3-2004 |
Stock Epic 4s are regularly available for $800-1000 on the used market. Fretless are less common and may command a slightly higher price as a result. It's also hard to nail down a price for them as they appear on the block with less frequency. If you bought new, you'd probably be paying in the vicinity of $2500 ($3200 list) for one with no optional features. As such, you might consider yourself lucky to find one used at $1500 that matches what you are looking for. Good luck! |
