| Author | Message | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hello Friends , Probably this has already been discussed before , but here's my question : How long can you play a series 2 with 2 fresh and new batteries before sound fade ? Thank you Alain | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7956 Registered: 6-2000 |
Usually not more than 20 hours. Remember that it's draining the battery even when the pickup selector is in the stand-by position. You have to unplug the bass to turn the battery off. | ||
| dubalbal
Advanced Member Username: dubalbal Post Number: 286 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thank you Mica for clear explantations . Alain | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3419 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mica just so I'm clear, leaving the series cable plugged in doesn't drain the batteries at all does it? It's just plugging into the standard jack socket that drains the batteries isn't it? Jazzyvee | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7957 Registered: 6-2000 |
The 1/4" jack has the switch for the batteries. When you use the 5-pin it has no interaction with the batteries. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1425 Registered: 12-2004 |
6 years, so far. Crazy. | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 1061 Registered: 8-2005 |
I actually tested the battery life on my 1976 Series 1. 2 new Duracells and let it go! Can't remember if I even got 10 hours!! | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7964 Registered: 6-2000 |
The battery drain is always faster when you leave them plugged in and just drain away. When you use the battery for 2 hours, turn it off and use it for 3 hours the next day, turn it off and 2.5 the next day, etc. you'll add up to a good bit longer than a straight drain. Such is the way of batteries. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1426 Registered: 12-2004 |
What witchcraft is this? This battery voodoo you speak of? (Yes I know that batteries tend to "recover") | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7967 Registered: 6-2000 |
Well then you know. | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1428 Registered: 12-2004 |
I know it happens, but nobody seems to know why. | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 1062 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thanks Mica. I'll try that next and see how it goes. Use for 90 mins. each time (about a gig) and then switch off. Try again the next day and the day after etc., to see the end result. I generally wait until I begin to hear slight distortion, and use that as the "end" point. G | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 930 Registered: 9-2008 |
not all new batteries are really 100% full charged when you buy them... (Message edited by mario farufyno on April 14, 2013) | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 1066 Registered: 8-2005 |
Hey Mario! I agree, but I get my batteries from a special girl friend who works at the importers, so I don't complain about price...........which, for a Scotsman is extremely rare George | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 932 Registered: 9-2008 |
Oh, price matter to us all, too! ha ha ha... * (I was talking about how difficult may be comparing endurance test's results with "non-uniform guinea pigs" for start) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 7968 Registered: 6-2000 |
If anyone is using the Procell batteries, I've been encountering LOTS of reports from customers about their extremely short battery life compared to Duracell alkaline batteries. Apparently the Procell batteries have a long shelf life and will test with a higher voltage longer than other batteries, but then fade off really fast. At least that's what I hear. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3428 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yep Mica, that is my experience with them but only after buying a box of 20 less than 6 months ago. Once the stock has finished, which won't be too long, I will be back to Duracell or Energiser. Jazzyvee | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 935 Registered: 9-2008 |
Great tip, I saw those Procell in one new shop near home (they are not regularly sold around here) and was thinking to buy one for next battery change instead of the usual Duracell. You've spared me some dimes, thanks. | ||
| andy3hal
Junior Username: andy3hal Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2013 |
On a slightly different idea…………..sorry if this might be covered somewhere else. My Alembic has the anniversary electronics, anybody retro fitted a mini xlr socket and hooked it up to a DS5 or similar external power supply, would involve drilling the body to fit one, sacrilege or practical solution to replacing the batteries every two weeks ???? So, a series bass with batteries fitted and connected to a DS5, are there blocking diodes installed in the series wiring to prevent damage to the batteries or the batteries sinking the power ? If rechargeable batteries are installed, does the DS5 have sufficient power to charge or float charge the batteries, and power the electronics ? Sorry if this sound a bit stupid, but thought would ask. My Alembic with anniversary electronics, fitted with two non rechargeble Duracell batteries, practice every night for 1 hour ( 7days ) then gigged at weekend for 3 hours ( 2 nights) batteries are lasting, or should I say bass still sounding great, batteries last 14 days, looking for practical solution to not having to replace the batteries every two weeks. | ||
| jon_jackson
Intermediate Member Username: jon_jackson Post Number: 174 Registered: 12-2008 |
My Dragon Wing has anniversary electronics with a 5-pin connector (installed as part of the build at the shop) which I use with a DS-5. I did not retrofit it nor try to use with rechargeable batteries so don't know if your idea will work. Jon | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 450 Registered: 8-2008 |
Andrew, I'm not sure how Anniversary electronics with a 5-pin connector would differ from Series electronics - but with Series the 1/4" jack has a switch which interrupts power from the 5-pin and switches to battery power. (Don't ever do that with the amp on!) The batteries never see the power from the power supply so they are not able to be charged in the "normal" system. Of course Alembic can do any mod you can dream up ... so how about a bass hanger high up on one wall which is wired so that when you hang the bass there overnight it trickle charges the internal NiMH batteries? Kind of like a cell phone dock! In the time it took to read this Mica probably envisioned 3 slick ways of doing it. Ha! Jimmy J | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2090 Registered: 11-2004 |
Just get the best rechargables you can afford and use them. I use a wireless system 'cos I was sick of tripping over cables, 9V 250mAH batteries on a charger before the gig and you are sorted. | ||
| andy3hal
Junior Username: andy3hal Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2013 |
Have been using the Energiser batteries, but just ordered the Duracell rechargeables, will see how they compare, also I am using the G50 wireless system, I too got fed up with cables, will still have a think though how to recharge the batteries without removing cavity plates and the internal foam packing that holds the batteries in place | ||
| charles_holmes
Advanced Member Username: charles_holmes Post Number: 257 Registered: 3-2009 |
How does the wireless system work for a series which is stereo? | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1869 Registered: 2-2005 |
Charles, The 1/4" is mono or switchable on most newer basses. If you had an older model with a stereo 1/4" you would need to rewire to mono. Keith | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1458 Registered: 5-2006 |
I'm pretty sure Jason Newsted used two beltpacks with his Series II basses. He had a battery pack with two outputs (if I'm not mistaken, made by Alembic) which connected to the 5 pin out. Partially shown in this picture:  Andy: I tried Duracell rechargeables in the TBP12 yesterday, didn't work... The transmitter kept shutting on/off, also I had to use a screwdriver to pull one of them out :-( I was in a hurry, it might work if you pull the plastic wrapping from the battery (better fit and the on/off problem could be a contact problem) My Duracells are: 1,2V, 2650mAh | ||
| smuprof
Intermediate Member Username: smuprof Post Number: 163 Registered: 12-2003 |
Here's a real time update: 20 hours in a Series II. Thursday rehearsals for an hour, then Sunday morning for an hour x 10 weeks. How do I know? I got within 3 minutes of finishing the last song today. Interesting - no noticeable distortion (which I've seen in my Signature basses) - literally a "fade out" over about 30 seconds while playing, then nothing. Good to know. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2099 Registered: 11-2004 |
Look I know there are a lot of purists here but do you think the audience would know if you were in stereo??. As long as there is a great bass sound with clearness that is good enough for me. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2915 Registered: 5-2009 |
From my perspective the advantage of being in "Stereo" is not to build a "Stereo Panorama" but to be able to have absolute separation from the bridge PU and the neck pickup PU for that what ever signal processing such as an SF-2 or what ever else is desired at the time. I have found that sometimes various process's can be more interesting and /or effective from different pickup angles. For an example I like to boost the low midrange of the bridge pickup on a Series I/II Bass to get that edgy growl. AN SF-2 is quite effective at supplying that . There are many other effectors in the signal chain that would apply ,___such as compression and limiting . Also flanging and phasing and what ever other signal process's that might sound different from various pickup angles. Just like moving a microphone around in different angles in front of a guitar cabinet or for that matter in microphone placement in a Grand Piano ! I find this comparison to be quite relative . | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 971 Registered: 9-2008 |
* double post * (Message edited by mario farufyno on June 03, 2013) | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 972 Registered: 9-2008 |
Yeah, stereo in this case seems to be just a fancy short word for "individual PU outputs". | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 1744 Registered: 6-2002 |
True enough, Wolf and Mario. I ran my 73 Guild Starfire into separate effects and preamp channels in the 70's to great effect. The only separation effects I ever heard on bass were from Phil's quad bass output prior to the "Wall of Sound" era (I'm guessing '73 or '74 at the Dane Co. Coliseum in Madison)and he only used it briefly during a solo then switched back to mono for the rest of the show. Mike | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5463 Registered: 7-2004 |
I remember the quad bass as being contemporaneous with the Wall of Sound that I first saw at the unoffical unveiling in February, 1974, at Winterland, and the official unveiling the next month at the Cow Palace. Bill, tgo | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Senior Member Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 521 Registered: 7-2009 |
I have been playing with this concept lately. I will run one pickup with effects and one clean simultaneously. Here is the catch. My settings on the bass changes very drastically. I am playing with the neck pickup very low and flat. The bridge pickup very bright and thin. When I move to effects, I jack the neck pickup full blast, and take some of the Q off the bridge pickup.On with the effects, in the bridge pickup,and super cool double sound. I have not been able to find a way to have cool double effects in a live setting, yet. But, I would like to try it with a little delay. I just got 2 years of battery life with my SII, but I use a power supply most of the time. Nick | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2100 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well that's all very well but sometimes less is more. I still have a hard time thinking that all that effort in putting the signal through all sorts of equipment seems a pointless waste of time when it comes to the audience..half the time they are listening to the singer or the guitarist! My 'simple' Ashdown rig of single 15" cab linked to the 2 x 10 combo has more than enough tone options along with the filters and Q switches. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 2918 Registered: 5-2009 |
Terry , Yes Sometimes .____ Less is more , I agree . However sometimes (speaking for my self) It is also enjoyable to have a "Sonic Adventure" and go where no Bass has gone before ______. Sonic Regards , Wolf | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 3489 Registered: 6-2002 |
For me, less is most times and more is less times. My main rig these days is my Mesa boogie walkabout and 4x10 mesa cab. On the times when I have a theatre gig it's a nice luxury to be able to bring the big rig, I take the opportunity but it's been used in mono and is these days probably overkill but I love the sound. ;-) I agree with your point about equipment being a wasted on the audience Terry, as many can't even hear when the band is playing badly off key so won't hear the finer points of a good or great rig. I'll stick with horses for courses.... for now Jazzyvee (Message edited by jazzyvee on June 04, 2013) | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1544 Registered: 5-2002 |
If you want to hear the different pickups run into different effects and amp channels taken to the extreme, listen to Bootsy. Up to 5 pickups, all with their own effects chains and amps. It works. | ||
| smuprof
Intermediate Member Username: smuprof Post Number: 164 Registered: 12-2003 |
I can't say I've tried effects, etc. to make the channels distinctly different, but I have had the opportunity to play in stereo - F2B, Mackie FR-1400, and 2 Eden D210XST (extended frequency low end with frightening efficiency). Separating the cabinets creates a very pleasing sound field that, to my ears, highlights the sonic nuances of an Alembic. Of course 99% of that is lost when the rest of the band starts to play, but I know what it can/is doing. Which reminds me of an interesting conversation I had with a very knowledgeable Alembic dealer who shall remain nameless. He didn't know I was a player, and I just asked him what was popular. He pointed out that different genres tend toward different high end instruments (of which he had almost all of them), but at the end of the day, Alembic remained at the pinnacle of sonic technology. He went on to point out that even with the best amplification/speaker equipment, you couldn't hear the complete sonic capabilities of an Alembic, i.e. the amplification technology still isn't as good as the Alembic pickup/electronics package, and that you really needed a great recording setup to actually "hear" what an Alembic is capable of. I think owning an Alembic is about beginning with the best of the best and striving to build an amplification "chain" that maintains that tone, knowing that any "chain" will color and ultimately deteriorate the source. I actually have experienced what the dealer was describing. A couple of years ago I was working on a difficult passage, and I recorded it to figure out what I was doing wrong. Exploiter/Spoiler into a Brick preamp into a nice digital recorder. When I played it back through a nice set of headphones, even though it was just a rough practice take, I was startled by the superior sound and tone I heard. I could literally hear things that were "lost" in amplification. Apologies for the long post. To sum up: 1. Do play your Alembic through a stereo rig if you get the chance 2. When the band starts playing it probably won't matter 3. Don't pass up the chance to record your Alembic to really hear what it's capable of | ||
| smuprof
Intermediate Member Username: smuprof Post Number: 165 Registered: 12-2003 |
PS - And obviously the Exploiter/Spoiler recording was mono PSS - my apologies for straying off-topic in this thread | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1441 Registered: 12-2004 |
John, While I agree that good recording equipment will highlight the great sound of your Alembic, that there aren't amplifiers and cabinets capable of reproducing it does not seem as correct to me. If you're basing this off of commercially available bass cabinets, then I agree wholeheartedly. However there are now cabinets that are capable of broadband reproduction that are vastly more accurate than your average 4x10. They do cost more. In this camp, I'd put the fEarful/fearless cabs, as well as good PA equipment. Before I built my fearful, I was looking at powered cabs from Meyer Sound and the like. Things like crossover design matter, and you just can't get a decent one in a commercial cab. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1547 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bradley, I agree with you, however, I have to admit that I'm pretty psyched about the Sunn 200S I just found on Craigslist. Something about those old JBL powered cabs that just have a great tone. It's definitely not hifi, but it's also definitely a good bass sound. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1993 Registered: 9-2002 |
Well, I did guess I didn't expect him to be playing thru Peaveys . . . . . http://www.meyersound.com/news/2006/anthony_jackson/ . . . . what, no "Texas Bar" metal grills ? ? ? J o e y | ||
| smuprof
Intermediate Member Username: smuprof Post Number: 166 Registered: 12-2003 |
Bradley - Fair point. I've thought about the "custom" type cabinets/PA style and done some research, but haven't gone down that road yet. And to Edwin's point, there's a difference between great bass sound and being able to hear everything your Alembic is capable of. I was in a hurry last week just to make sure new batteries were good in my S2, so I plugged it into a little Gibson GA-5 guitar amp - 5w, 2 tubes, 8" speaker. Yes the batteries were good, but I was surprised at how nice the sound was with the bass. Something to explore more later. So let me conclude with what I believe to be an unassailable thesis: great sound begins with Alembic. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1548 Registered: 5-2002 |
John, if you are interested in a hifi, PA style cabinet, I urge you to check out the fEARful line of cabs. I've been using them for a few years now and they are a revelation. I've played most of the cabs out there: Eden, Acme, SWR, old school Thiele cabs, Euphonic Audio, Trace Elliot, and the fEARfuls are really just a different thing. There are basically two schools of thought: 1) the amp and speaker serve to color the sound and become part of the instrument and 2) the amp and speakers get out of the way and just purely reproduce the sound of the bass. The fEARfuls are the best at #2 without going to something like Meyer. Of course, some of the guys behind fEARful are on to the next thing: Big E speakers, with some kind of magic vortex. https://www.facebook.com/BigEloudspeakers | ||
| hammer
Advanced Member Username: hammer Post Number: 363 Registered: 9-2009 |
Just checked out the BigE facebook page. Is it my imagination or are they taking note of the approach used by Phil Jones in many of their cabs? | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1550 Registered: 5-2002 |
It's totally different from Phil Jones. Phil is basically using standard speaker technology to build multi driver, optimally tuned cabinets. Big E is using something they call a Vortex, which is very different. There's been a ton of skepticism because it's uncharted territory, as far as I can tell, but they claim to get much better efficiency and dispersion characteristics than any other design. It seems to be one of those scenarios where people don't believe until they've heard it. I've not heard it, so I don't believe, but I'm will to suspend my disbelief until I do. I know Andy Lewis, of Acme, who's a friend here in Denver, is pretty skeptical from looking at the cabs online, and he's got a ton of experience. All I know, is from the hype, I'd love to hear one, but I can't afford to buy one. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2314 Registered: 10-2003 |
I heard what looks to have been a BigE 2x10 cabinet at a Lakland open-house last October and was not impressed. It was loud, but I thought it sounded awful. But, it was loud. Maybe it was the room we were in. People were ooh-ing and aah-ing over it until the guy who brought it (who was the builder, if memory serves) plugged it in. John | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1552 Registered: 5-2002 |
Interesting. I didn't realize they'd been around that long. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1995 Registered: 9-2002 |
To me, it's a huge problem that I fortunately no longer have to worry about. Bass amps and cabs were for me, always on one side or another of this fence: Line up all the usual suspects (Fender, Peavey, Sunn, Acoustic, etc., augmented by later, supposedly 'smarter' rigs like SWR, Eden, and Trace, MarkBass, and all those who followed in the Trace / SWR wake), and these were all 'bass amps', built for the guys who sweat out the five and six night a week sitdowns with Fenders or Musicmans or any of their clones. Then the other side of the fence: Rigs built primarily from Sound reinforcement / studio gear. Channel strips, dedicated bass preamps, commercial power amps, Demeters, Millenias, Universal Audio, dBx, rack gear of any and all persuasions, and God knows what kinds of cabinets, from straight touring cabinets to more esoteric bass guitar cabs like Acme, etc. For guys playing Alembics and Ritters and all sorts of 'furniture' basses. Spin the wheel and it's a crapshoot what will work well in any given room. And then, does my fabulous tone I built solo VANISH when mixed into the dizzying randomness of a band situation: Did I do all this to get buried by a doofus with a Marshall half-stack, will my standing wave (just had to have that five-string, didntcha?) knock glasses off the back bar, this gig has NO PA and I'm TOO LOUD anyway, this gig has a fabulous PA and I didn't need to bring all this . . . . . my brain melted just re-hashing all this. Then I go to see a band, and the guy has a crap PBass and a rusty Peavey stack and sounds great. Sigh . . . . . I COMPLETELY understand why Jimmy travels with a direct box and wedges. I spent my playing days completely understanding that the bass+amp+cabinet=my instrument. I also never mastered my sound, spent a lot of time fighting rooms where I could not hear myself while roasting everyone else, and always felt I was swimming uphill because of it. I once read an interview with Joe Osborne where he said he way preferred the studio, as he couldn't ever hear properly on the gig. I know . . . . Where's the Tylenol ? J o e y | ||
| stout71
Intermediate Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2011 |
Yeah Joey, you nailed it. When I first started regularly gigging and touring 15 years ago, I'd carry around 2 huge Ampeg rigs and run them in stereo, only to have that idea zapped when the house sound was always mixed mono anyway (which makes total sense, but I was young and naive.) I scaled it down to 1 after awhile and I did run it post-eq into the console which give it a decent tone through the PA. I mainly used the cab for my stage monitor. Then in-ear monitoring came out. I sold the cab for a high-end set of in ears and I've never looked back. Now I carry around an Ashdown 2X10 with a small GK head just to give the other guys something to hear if they aren't also using in-ears. The next step is to ditch all that completely and buy a nice direct preamp, speaker simulator, etc. It makes loading in and out a lot easier as well. Everyone used to tell me that it must suck to be the bassist and have to carry all that stuff around. Now they can tell the drummer. And I just realized we totally hijacked the original thread. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2315 Registered: 10-2003 |
Not totally. There's still time to save it. How long do the batteries last in your in-ears? Is the replacement cycle in-line with the replacement cycle for, say, an SII Alembic? John | ||
| stout71
Intermediate Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 142 Registered: 7-2011 |
Chuckle. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1555 Registered: 5-2002 |
No point in making the assumption that in ears are wireless. I run wired ear because they sound better and I've got a wire going to my bass anyway. I bundled a Series cable with a headphone extension cable and it works perfectly. One big cable and I'm done. | ||
| stout71
Intermediate Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2011 |
That's a great idea, Edwin. Currently, mine are wired as well. Did you just use zip ties? That would take the stress off of the connection where the extension cable meets the in-ears. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1556 Registered: 5-2002 |
No, I used this mesh tubing that I got from a local electronic surplus store. It does feel like one fat wire. Zip ties sound painful and dangerous! I think it was our own Jimmy J that gave me the idea. If you can't find any near you, I can see about picking some up and sending it to you. It's not super cheap, but it works quite well. | ||
| stout71
Intermediate Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 144 Registered: 7-2011 |
The stuff has to be available online SOMEWHERE. I'm not concerned with price. I'll only have to do this once, hopefully. Way better than zip ties. On another note, I saw you guys a couple of times when I lived out in Denver. Good stuff. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1557 Registered: 5-2002 |
This or something like it: http://www.markertek.com/Cable-Management-Protection/Expandable-Cable-Tubing/Techflex-Inc/PTN0-25BK.xhtml Thanks! Which band was it and when? I've only been with Shakedown Street since the end of 2009. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1558 Registered: 5-2002 |
This or something like it: http://www.markertek.com/Cable-Management-Protection/Expandable-Cable-Tubing/Techflex-Inc/PTN0-25BK.xhtml Thanks! Which band was it and when? I've only been with Shakedown Street since the end of 2009. | ||
| stout71
Intermediate Member Username: stout71 Post Number: 145 Registered: 7-2011 |
Oh this was back sometime between 1998-2001. El Chapultepec or Herman's or something. Thanks for the link. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 458 Registered: 8-2008 |
Funny path this thread has taken but I'm enjoying the ride... Here's my crude, slightly unwieldy, slightly slippery on a smooth stage, combo-cable. (Strap-locks on both ends, one for the rack and one for the extra button on the bass.) I also prefer hardwired in-ears for fidelity, and I'm gonna plug the bass in anyway so... Jimmy J  | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1443 Registered: 12-2004 |
Jimmy, You have an extra straplock pin/receiver on your bass, or you connect that to the strap somehow? Bradley | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1559 Registered: 5-2002 |
Nice setup, Jimmy! What do you use for an in ear amp? If I'm doing my own ear mix, I use the headphone output of a Metric Halo ULN-8, if not, a Grace M902. | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 459 Registered: 8-2008 |
the wandering thread... apologies to the OP Alain... Yes Bradley, two strap buttons, strap to the lower one and cable to the upper. See below. (excuse the lo-res pics) Edwin, I've been using an older model "Cosmic" headphone amp made by Headroom which has a processing effect that I dig. Below is a shot of my main road rig, home-made psu, Korg black tuner, home-made 5-pin box with mute switch, REDDI, cosmic amp, home-made iso transformer inputs for the Cosmic... Now you know all my tricks!! I could make better pics but another day, another thread. Cheers! Jimmy J   | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 973 Registered: 9-2008 |
Joey, there are several important questions on your text to consider. You can't expect that your soloed tone will sound the same when mixed to the whole Band. We can't listen to instruments, just the frequencies they produce. So, in a band situation, we must choose which ones are really important to our tone's understanding and which should be attenuated to take it away from others toes. We can't use full spectrum without messing with other voices in a Band. We all occupy most of the mid hearing spectra, and the very same frequencies are disputed by every voice in the mix (including the main melodic voice that usualy is the front and main voice to be preserved... and rarely is the Bass). So, if we want to hear everyone, we have to give up the idea of having our whole tone being pushed forward, because we have to open spaces to others. Mixing is selecting which frequencies we'll keep and which will be discarded. If didn't, when some instrument that shares the same frequency with you got lifted up, that same frequency will be missed on your Bass. If it matters to enhance its comprehensibility, you will be drawn to mud and vanish from mix unless you pump up your volume (but that would mean that this other Instrument will be missed and we can't take that as a fader war). So, never expect to hear your tone in a mix so full and whole as you are used when alone in a room. If you will play in a band context, your Bass must sound good in the mix, and this probably means that it will sound odd alone. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 974 Registered: 9-2008 |
When you quote Joe Osborn preferring the studio enviroment, we must know that a studio have acoustics and monitors that intend to be transparent. The goal is to let the monitors being faithfull to any incoming signal. All its acoustic is designed to not interfere on what monitors are producing. So, any adjustments you make on your tone should be truly translated to tape, disk and monitors. If you feed the desk direct, all you can do is turn knobs on your bass to get the tone. If you use an amp you can choose send the signal after Eq and benefit from your amp's Eq stage (preamp). If you are miking its Cab, you can get its particular tone and all room's reinforcements (since each rooms enhance differents frequencies being produced in it). Anyway you opt, you can rely that monitors will truly reproduce what is being recorded. If you are used to this practice is easy to know how much of your Tone came from Bass, from Amp, from Cab and Room. But really important should be being aware on how the Bass alone really sounds like, because most of us just know how our Basses sound in a particular room, trough a particular chain of gear, and they all lie in a sense. Amps uses to enhance lows and a Cab can sound really different if it is at floor level (mid scooped), lifted up (open sounding) or near a corner (more fatty). So, listening to your tone through an Amp is like trying to evaluate colors using a colored lens eyeglass. Now, lets think about live shows... You have amp and cab, or wedge monitors, it doesn't matter. All that you have to guide you is a unique reference at a particular spot at stage that has nothing to do on how FOH will reproduce tones and how the entire room will reacts to them. Even before turning up your amp, you are probably already sending a DI to FOH system, so you can expect your bass sounding muddy and bassy at stage, just for start. That happens because lows are omnidirectional and can spread behind FOH as strongly as it spreads ahead. Highs on other hand are very directional and simply can't be heard behind FOH as it would be heard by audience. So, all we have are this overwhelming lows... If you don't have any monitoring, you probably will cut lows and enhance highs on Bass. But if you send this to FOH with its shiny tweeters, people at audience will hear the ugliest bass tone ever. If your tone at home or any small venue is "bass+amp+cab", in a live situation it is "bass+desk's channel stripe+FOH" (assuming that sound man sooner had solved acoustics issues at this specific ambient). If you use any bass shy monitor system (as most wedges are), you must be aware to not try compensate its lack of lows. Most of time, the FOH's low leakage will match that bright sounding monitor, but even then is a risk assume that you hear what people are listening. The best bet would be make all adjustments from audience perspective first, using the help of a Series incredible Eq capabilities and/or desk Eq, and just them move to the stage to try to get a decent tone where you'll be during show. There you can adjust your amp tone to compensate how the room is feeding you at that spot or ask sound man to equalize your monitor send. But keep in mind that not every venue has gear enough to equalize your wedge and you can't tweak onboard preamp to improve how the wedge or amp is sounding on stage without messing with your tone to audicence. That is when having an Amp on stage is usefull. Since it can get over FOH leakage, you can always tweak its adjustments to perfect your tone at stage without interfering on our direct signal sent to FOH. Remember that much of our effort during sound passage will be missed when people occupy all seats, so new adjustments are needed during the performance and is helpfull not depending on sound crew to solve monitoring issues quickly and satisfyingly (they will be concerned on how sound is coming to audience first, then they will care about the singer needs and is better not bet when they will care on the bass...). ps.: Sorry for long post and hope that you can understand my lousy english (everytime I feel writing as a child tryng to express myself as a grown up) | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1444 Registered: 12-2004 |
Jimmy: Said effect being the "crossfeed"? Where it puts a certain amount of the opposite speaker into each side on a delay (and with eq?). No need to upgrade and all that, but the newer models still have that. Bradley | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 975 Registered: 9-2008 |
The question here is "Do I really know how my Tone is" or I just know how it sounds through my gear, in my room? My current goal is to learn and memorize how my Bass sounds alone. I try to keep on mind how it sounded on studios and always try to get the tone on bass solely first. I also try to hear how it sounds recorded in system that I am used to, like on my cheap sound system at home (since, after years hearing music on it, I have learned which eq settings recorded music sounds better there). Now, I don't adjust my amp to sound good. First I adjust it to sound as my bass should sound if I was in a studio. That would be the settings that compensates any room contribution and would guarantee that my direct signal should sound at least close at FOH. Just then I start to reach tones, tweaking on Bass now. As I don't trust entirely on sound crew, I will try to hear it from audience perspective (even if I must ask for a fellow band buddy to play it to me). If it sounds true, Ok. If doesn't I will ask for the sound guy to came to stage to hear how the Amp is now sounding (without the FOH)*. If he gets there (and it is his task to achieve that), you will be amazed how clear your tone will sound on stage (with the help of the amp/monitor corret tailored to sound transparent). That way, any changes I made on the Bass should be as trully to me as to audience. Just then, I will fine adjust my tone on Amp to compensate any bass leakage from FOH or differences when the house got crowded. * Many sound guys are so used to work on Fenders and Fender likes basses that they automatically go for certain eq curves that not always benefit Alembic tone. Good professionals hear how it sounds and make the corrections. Bad professionals simply repeat the old fender formula, that is why the PBass guy sounded better, he goes fine by preset (but not always, a bad sound guy can really ruin everything). Giving up Amps on stage doesn't solve that issue, we must teach them that there are other tones around. A smart sound man knows that he must uses his ears, not his book of recipes. But if we want to have him trusting on us and the direct signal we send, we can't send a weird scooped sound that only sound good on stage and on our amp (since it may be just compensating room's acoustics problems and gear limitations, as many musicians simply are not aware on all that afore mentioned issues). If the guy is really a pro, his job is to reproduce our tone as we gave it to him and just eventualy compensating room acoustics and other voices needs at the mix. So that direct signal must be at least close to what we want... Don't rely much on your monitor/amp as tone generator because it can't be sent to FOH. All it will be doing is compensating the room and a close microphone will not get it as you expect (because it will be closer to speakers and away from room inluence). (Message edited by mario farufyno on June 07, 2013) | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 976 Registered: 9-2008 |
I don't have a Serie, so I don't have much eq settings to play with. But nowadays I tend to just ask for some lo-mid scoop (center between 250Hz~400Hz and high Q, just depending on how room modes enhance lows to choose which sounds better) and nothing more. If I want pump highs, I will flip my hi switch. If I want less, cut it or change the filter. If I want a mid bump, go for the Q on and move the filter up or down. If I want change the lows, I use the propper switch. If I want to change overall mid character, I change PUs balance. Alembic's electronics, even on my Rogue, are very flexible. I just have to compensate changes in loudness with my main volume out to avoid clipping on desk input. If wasn't for my need to scoop out lo-mids (that sounds good alone but tend to sound baffled among other more higher pitched sources in a full mix), I would do everything on Bass solely. But since that scooping relates to how rooms behaviour, is good to let it to the desk - to help audience to get it right - and to the amp - to help me hear myself on stage. | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 977 Registered: 9-2008 |
there is a recent thread more related to monotoring, doesn't?.... sorry for hijack | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1997 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mario, I appreciate the time you took to respond to all this. But I'm done. I don't play out any more, so this is all just unfortunate memory, and hats off to all you guys who've found a way to make it work for your own situations. I never did . . . . J o e y | ||
| mario_farufyno
Senior Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 980 Registered: 9-2008 |
I see, but I really went into all this because that complain is so frequent among fellow bass players, that I thought discuss acoustics could be helpfull for more people, too. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 2317 Registered: 10-2003 |
Edwin, regarding the BigE stuff, I got the impression he was just a local builder experimenting with designs so surely the cabinet I saw/heard was pre-production. Still, I was not impressed. John | ||
| tmimichael
Junior Username: tmimichael Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2010 |
Jimmy, I think I'm going to try your cable-strap idea...I keep getting tangled inbetween the Series cable and the IEM cable! Also to another point about Alembic fidelity, I have gotten rid of my on-stage amp completely. We have a really nice, tri-amped JBL system, and so I just run direct. Since we are a 3-piece band, everthing is either mic'd or direct, so in essence it sounds like a big stereo system. No wedges, just IEM's (Futuresonics), and I can hear everything crystal clear. I do occasionally get a comment from our guitarist that he would like some "dirt" on my sound, but I love the clarity. Oh, and by the way....I replaced the batteries in my Series II at about 1-1/2 years, just used them during rehearsal situations-5 pin cable for all else. :-) | ||
| jimmyj
Senior Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 464 Registered: 8-2008 |
Michael, The only problems with this nylon-sleeved "combo" cable are: A) it's kinda big B) it's not very flexible C) it can be slippery on a smooth stage D) the nylon webbing can catch and tear so you'll need to rebuild it now and then... All that said I still feel it's easier than dragging two cables around. Ideally there might be some kind of single (what, 7-conductor?) rubber jacketed "snake" cable that that could break out at the ends... But then we might have crosstalk issues and who knows what else. So for now I'm sticking with my home-made clunky approach. Ha! Jimmy J | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1583 Registered: 5-2002 |
I do this, too, and it works great. I have thought about how to use a single cable and there are some options, such as stereo snake cable, but it would have to be star quad, such as this: http://www.canare.com/ProductItemDisplay.aspx?productItemID=55, which I hate working with because I hate braided shields. But that's because I'm lazy. The only potential issue with this solution is the fact that the conductors are pretty small gauge, so the headphone send might suffer a bit. Of course, with star quad, you can double it up. Hm. Might have to try it. Anyone else interested? If I do one, I might as well do a few. It wouldn't be before August, but I've been thinking of doing this for a while. Another one that I've thought of is tube mic cable, which comes in a number of different configurations. The benefit here is that some of the conductors, which carry voltage to the microphone, are quite beefy, and would be better for the headphones, or even for the voltage to the bass. Plus, the signal conductors would then be separately shielded from the headphone signal. Redco carries a few options: http://www.redco.com/Bulk-Tube-Mic-Cable/. It would be very cool if it could be obtained with 4 of the conductors at a larger gauge. So, that's two options. |
