| Author | Message | ||
| blazer
Member Username: blazer Post Number: 52 Registered: 12-2003 |
Not to step on anybody's toes but isn't having all those pots and switches a bit of overkill? Take a look at Stanley Clarke's new bass, no question that it is a wonderfulll looking (and sounding) instrument but all those pots? I speak for myself, but I'm the type of guy who believes that tone is all in the fingers and I have modified my two pickup basses so they have a Balance pot, a master tone and a Master Volume. This enables me to back off the volume regardless of what pickup I'm playing over at that moment. Sure I can see the merits of being able to completely change the sound of your bass by just turning a pot or flicking over a switch but I wouldn't be able to do so between verses in the middle of the song and would easily grab the wrong pot or switch. To use Stanley Clarke as an example again: I sa him changing the sound of his bass mid song and change it again and again. And in his hands he could make the most of it. However, I also saw footage of Jaco tearing it up and he plays a Fender Jazz bass, no elaborate electronics, no phase switches but 100% pure sound, no gimmics, just his fingers on the de-fretted board of his Fender. So I would like to pose you people this question, do you people actually USE all of those sound posibilities? | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 490 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yes. | ||
| flaxattack
Advanced Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 324 Registered: 4-2004 |
sure do and i dont even have my bass yet lol | ||
| serialnumber12
Junior Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2004 |
OF course all those knobs offer "a whole new world of sound" & versatility in a electronic stringed instruments,but of course one would have'to own one to understand,these are not your normal guitars my friend!!! | ||
| serialnumber12
Junior Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2004 |
Have you ever heard the term "BEYOND CUSTOM"? | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 266 Registered: 7-2004 |
Blazer: I used to question it too. In fact I preferred my Mark III Boogie over the Mark IV for precisely that reason, too many knobs on the Mark IV which I didn't think were necessary. Admittedly, I don't change tones much during songs, and when I do, I usually accomplish it with my pedal board. But I certainly do mess with my guitar's settings in between songs as different songs often call for a different tone. I have found a few settings that I usually go to. The versatility of the on-board electronics then comes in handy for subtle tweaking to compensate for little differences from such things as the acoustics of the room I'm playing in, how new/old my strings are, even things like humidity and temp. It's like I'm constantly telling my 9 year old: the difference between easy and hard is knowledge and practice. When you are first exposed to anything new, be it math, a new gameboy game, a new sport, whatever, it is hard. Once you learn about it and practice, it is easy. The same with Alembic electronics. I admittedly struggled at first with my Electrum. Now it's definitely much easier and the controls make a lot more sense. The same with my SF-2. Last night at rehearsal I felt I broke though a wall and really "grokked" it for the first time. Sure, my Fender is more basic and easier to adjust "on the fly". And when I want to sound like a Strat it does the job brilliantly. But it is very limited compared to the Electrum and just doesn't get the incredible presence that the Alembic has. Remember, just because the ALembic has more controls, doesn't mean you have to touch every one on every song. It's all about possibilities. Bill, tgo | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 690 Registered: 3-2004 |
Whenever you are going to play something, you have a tone in your mind of what it should sound like. With simple electronics, you can usually move the intrument's tone in the direction of what you want. With the souped-up Alembic gear, you can actually get there. It is true that it takes a bunch of tweaking and playing before you can intuitively make the right adjustments, but it's worth it when you get there. | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 408 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hai Wouter J, jij ook hier? Toch niet verdwaald zeker? It's a huge misunderstanding, especially on some Dutch (bass) guitar communities ;-) that every Alembic is loaded with nice but pretty useless 'gimmicks'. Anyone familiar with Alembic will strongly disagree, simply because they know what they're talking about. Example: my 'fancy' Alembic Elan only has two volumepots and one filter (Persuader electronics). Another example: I've seen numerous basses from other brands, makers and luthiers carrying a huge electronics package with lots of knobs and switches. It's simply all a matter of personal taste. As Keavin said Alembic goes 'beyond custom' and in the end it's 'to each his own', wouldn't you agree? I bet your employer Knooren also tries to please his customers, and if it's technically possible (and providing the customer is willing to pay for it) it's done. Off course Alembic electronics don't automatically make a better bass player out of you. But Alembic does increase the potential and versatility of the instrument, bass or guitar, and will always continue to do so. Alembics are practical works of art and each one is unique. To some people that's very important, others couldn't care less. Those people can and may prefer 'basic' and can even (rightly) claim that Jaco only needed his 'tool of the trade' Fender Jazz to make miracles happen. I'd dare to state that if he had used an Alembic, he'd have become even more of a legend among bass players. But on the other hand, who knows? That's what all the fun is about! Groetjes, Wilfred (Message edited by the_mule on January 14, 2005) | ||
| blazer
Member Username: blazer Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2003 |
I guess it comes from me being a guitarist with a bass guitar in his hands. Guitarists tend to be conservative about their gear, keeping it as simple as possible just taken what they can use this picture shows me using my main stage guitar which has only one pickup and a volume pot knowing that I don't need more than that.  It is true that with Knooren we built plenty of Basses with very ornate EQ settings but the most pots we've ever put on a bass was five. Jan Knooren himself has the same vision as me, his personal basses just use two volumes and a master tone. We make basses big EQ's on order from customers. | ||
| serialnumber12
Junior Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 30 Registered: 12-2004 |
that guitar would be a perfect candidate for an "alembic heart" transplant! | ||
| mrfunkwool
Junior Username: mrfunkwool Post Number: 27 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hmm.. it struck me funny you think guitarists are purists keeping things simple with gear. Seems, to me like every guitarist.. I've ever played w/ has like 10-15 pedals. Maybe the guitar itself has no knobs, but the signal is anthing but pure. I've found, Bass players are usually the ones w/ an ax, and an amp, maybe one stomp box, maybe... but, that's just my experience. I could be playing with "Pedal Heads" | ||
| beelee
Junior Username: beelee Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 |
Doesn't what kind of bass you play and what kind of pickups, electronics etc. it has come down to Personal preference ? John Paul Jones started out playing a Fender Jazz bass, why did he switch to Alembic ? A much more high quality and versatile instrument. Yes one way to change your tone/sound on a bass is to play closer to the neck or the bridge, or play fingerstyle or Pick. or you can constantly keep going back to your amp and tweek things, but it sure is nice to have the ability to change things if need be within fingers reach like on an Alembic. I have a used Fender P bass that the previous owner put in EMG's and put on a Kahler whammy bar, it sounds great and its very unique, do I play it at all my shows......no, do I always use my Alembic, Fodera, Pedulla, Tobias or Conklin 7 string ? No...... it all depends on what type of music I'm playing, some times I need fretless, sometimes extended range. It doesn't matter what make instrument you play or what electronics are or aren't inside or how many strings are on it, your playing for the song needs and gettin in that groove w/ your band mates. and makin' the audience dance or at least tap their feet and when you finish the song and the applause comes, you worked the magic of music. Bill, tgo says it well | ||
| 811952
Advanced Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 361 Registered: 10-2003 |
Blazer, Yes. My Series I is second only to an Alembic Series II in versatility, and the sounds I hear in my head are easily attainable, knowing my instrument as well as I do. That said, I think it would be quite easy for me to adjust to Series II electronics, because Alembic uses a specific and unique approach to tone-shaping across their entire line of instruments. True, the tone is in the fingers and playing an Alembic isn't going to make anyone not suck. Having Alembic flexibility allows us to create more complex timbres, for better or for worse, by effectively changing the sonic properties of the entire instrument. You cite Jaco playing the Jazz Bass (when I saw him in '84 he was playing a fretted Jazz Bass). Consider those fingers on a Gibson EBO or a Rickenbacker or a P-bass. Same fingers, but almost certainly yielding different, unique sounds. That's what all the switches and knobs on an Alembic bass do for us. The four knobs and two switches on a typical Series I are infinitely more flexible than the five or more knobs found on many, many current production basses. As for the three knobs on the typical Jazz Bass, it's always going to sound like a Jazz Bass. If someone has an interest in getting many different types of sounds from a single instrument, playing an Alembic is a very simple but elegant way to address that. I don't know of a more flexible yet highly consistent bass guitar made... John | ||
| mrfunkwool
Junior Username: mrfunkwool Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2004 |
Hmm.. it struck me funny you think guitarists are purists keeping things simple with gear. Seems, to me like every guitarist.. I've ever played w/ has like 10-15 pedals. Maybe the guitar itself has no knobs, but the signal is anthing but pure. I've found, Bass players are usually the ones w/ an ax, and an amp, maybe one stomp box, maybe... but, that's just my experience. I could be playing with "Pedal Heads" | ||
| mrfunkwool
Junior Username: mrfunkwool Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2004 |
haha... cool, First time I got the lock mechanism.. and caused a double post. That'll get my post number up. Sorry bout that. | ||
| lbpesq
Advanced Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 267 Registered: 7-2004 |
In I may chime in again, I respectfully disagree with those who have stated that Alembics don't make you a better player. I think they do in the sense that the clean, pure, strong signal of an Alembic will make bad technique more obvious. I can definitely play a little sloppier on my Strat than on my Electrum. The Alembic forces me to pay a little more attention to my technique which makes me play better! I believe I've read others echo this in other posts. Bill, tgo | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1226 Registered: 5-2002 |
Blazer stated: "I also saw footage of Jaco tearing it up and he plays a Fender Jazz bass, no elaborate electronics, no phase switches but 100% pure sound, no gimmics, just his fingers on the de-fretted board of his Fender." 100% pure sound?? No gimmics?? I respectfully suggest that you haven't listened to much Jaco Pastorius. He often used huge amounts of distortion, especially on his solo; it would completely overpower the tone of the bass and result in this big metallic sound. He used lots of reverb. He used a tape delay. Listen to "Slang". And he was constantly tweaking his tone. Since his bass didn't have much in the way of tone adjustment, he was often going back to his Acoustic to adjust tone. Watch the DVD for Shadows and Light or the jam session on the instructional video. | ||
| kungfusheriff
Advanced Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 247 Registered: 8-2003 |
Forget who played what. This issue is down to the bone--what tool works for you, the individual player. My bass has eight knobs and I use them all, because, as 811952 said, those knobs effectively transform the timbre of the instrument, so I only need one. I went through umpteen-milllion basses before I settled on my Series 2, and it does everything I need it to except dirty, but we have pedals for that. The key idea is, what allows you to speak what your heart feels that very moment? For most of us here, Alembic allows that (that's why we hang out here), never mind the number of knobs or how much the artistically-designed shapes neck-dive in real-world situations (much respect, Susan!). My cousin the guitar player loves Washburns, because they speak to him, and it's good he found something that did. For me, poring through endless variations of continuously variable "Q" and relative pickup volumes, plus the chronic over-engineering, allows me to express myself. I know I can get the sound I want, and the instrument won't fail. I was just playing along with a CD I recorded 10 years ago and damn, do I wish I'd had Little Black&Tan then. My tone was great, but my inflection was lacking. | ||
| richbass939
Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 96 Registered: 11-2004 |
I'd like to speak to the comments about players constantly adjusting pots and switches and guitarists' simplicity and purity of sound. Have any of you seen Steve Morse in concert. I saw the Dregs twice in a small, small venue. I was 20 feet from him both times. He had a customized guitar with pickups jammed solid from the bridge to the neck. I was amazed watching him. He was constantly hitting the pickup switch. I'm not kidding that he would hardly play 15 notes without sticking his pinkie down to move a pot. I understand that he is an extreme perfectionist who knows what he wants in his sound and his compositions. As far as a bass with two volume knobs, my main bass before I got my Epic has a volume for each of the two pickups. I got used to using it but it's much simpler with the pan and volume. When I would have to turn up or down it was tough to adjust them both and keep the same bridge/neck blend. Rich (Message edited by richbass939 on January 14, 2005) | ||
| dgcarbu
Intermediate Member Username: dgcarbu Post Number: 148 Registered: 6-2004 |
blazer, I respect your inquiry, I'm sure at one time or another, each one of us has asked the same questions, but Alembic is about unlimited creative expression and inventing different textures and nuances with the electronics installed on our instruments. That's what makes Alembic an Alembic. A lot of us alembicians also have other brand basses for their unique sounds, but they are limited to that unique sound. It all boils down to personal preference. Peace, Darrell | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1231 Registered: 5-2002 |
Rich; ... and he generally plays those 15 notes in less than a second <g> !! Steve Morse is one of my favorites; I've been a fan of the Dregs since the first album came out. And I've seen him and the Dregs many times. Dave LaRue, the bass player for the Dregs and the Steve Morse Band, is a great player. I just checked the website and they are in California all next week. If you live near a show and you've never seen Steve and Dave, go!!! | ||
| dfung60
Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2002 |
I realize this isn't the Steve Morse board, but just thought I'd chime in too. I've played around with the Musicman Steve Morse guitar and it's really quite amazing all the very different types of tones that it will produce. You've got to give Musicman some credit for being willing to build a number of models of very personally customized instruments for general consumption (the Morse guitar; their old Eddie Van Halen guitar too which was diametrically opposed as it only had a volume knob, no tone, and Eddie insisted that the volume knob say "Tone" on it!). Actually, I believe that Ritchie Blackmore hits the switch even more than Steve Morse does. I saw Blackmore from up close in a club and he pretty much seems to flick it like an expression control at the end of every phrase. Probably just habit - the interesting thing to me was that I could see very clearly as he selected different positions and I must admit that I couldn't hear the slightest change in his tone (much *less* than a regular Strat, but he was pretty heavily overdriven). Can't think of many control-twiddling bassists - maybe Doug Wimbish when he's looping. Technically, he's not quite the equal of Dave LaRue, but I greatly prefer the playing of Andy West, the original Dregs bassist, who played Alembic until his fairly famous switch to the very first Steinberger. I believe he got together with Steve Morse because they went to the same high school. Geez, it must be the water there - where I grew up we were challenged to play Doobie Bros songs (hey, Tiran Porter was occasionally another Alembic guy!) much less Cruise Control. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1232 Registered: 5-2002 |
I liked Andy West a lot too; especially that big grin!! But personally I prefer the tone of fingers over pics, so I tend to prefer LaRue's tone. But Andy did a lot of great stuff on those early Dregs albums. And on the subject of effects, Andy used lots of effects and Dave's rack setup is huge. | ||
| davehouck
Senior Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 1233 Registered: 5-2002 |
And of course while were talking about knobs on Alembic basses, there's always Phil Lesh. (Message edited by davehouck on January 15, 2005) | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 711 Registered: 7-2003 |
I don't use all the adjustment my S2 electronics offer (much less the additional shaping in the SF-2 I play it through). However (this is a big but!): If I'm spending the kind of bucks my bass cost, I want plenty of room to grow, change my sound, look for tones and textures I don't use everyday today. In the almost 6 months I've had my bass, I've been glad to have more latitude to work with more than once. Maybe a simpler set up is more efficient, a little easier to use(?) and fits every need of the particular moment, but I don't plan to buy another S2 any time soon, so I want the flexibility to make this one fit a multitude of needs. I don't mind the complexity of the controls - it's not rocket science. Just my 2 cents. Bill | ||
| jazzyvee
Intermediate Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 188 Registered: 6-2002 |
When I first got my SC Deluxe it is my first Aalembic and to be honest I was finding all these diferent sounds but couldn't find them the next time I picked up the bass. But perseverence pays off and now I can more or less get the sound I need quickly and very little tweaking after i get there. With my other bass Musicman Sterling I it's easy to get that crisp fender Marcus Miller type tone but not as easy to get exactly what I want. So I find I have to compromise. Having said that , before i got the Alembic i was satistifed with it. ... LOL Now I'm spoilt for choice in sound. Where i do find things a little difficult is getting exactly the same sound when recording. If I've been on a recording session with it and then do a gig in between I do find it quite difficult to get the same sound again. But I guess thats just about practice and familiarity. Plus its funny when the engineer tells you to turn the volume and tone on full and you try to explain to him that doesn't make any sense on an alembic. :-) Just my 50pence worth. Jazzyvee | ||
| jlpicard
Intermediate Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2002 |
Here's an interesting tidbit for everyone. I had the opportunity to speak breifly with Andy West right after his band performed at the 85' NAMM show. He was using the Steinberger at the show so I asked him point blank, "why aren't you using your Alembic anymore" to which he looked around and leaned toward me and said discretely, "I still do"! Make what you will out of that somewhat cryptic statement. Perhaps he had an endorsement deal going? Or was it just trendy and cutting edge to be seen with the Steinberger at that time? I happen to own an original Steinberger XL-2 and I'll tell you , This bass has a cool sound but compared to an Alembic?....HA! | ||
| bob
Advanced Member Username: bob Post Number: 353 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have a non-Series bass with 8 knobs and two toggles - and I wouldn't give up any of them. It's a custom setup, and I'm getting close to saying more about that. One of the things I really like about it is that it gives me finer control over the tone, and makes it easier to reproduce the sound I want (or at least very close). I play through an SF-2 straight to the amp (without a preamp), and most recently am using only one channel of the SF-2, because I have so much flexibility on the instrument itself. I don't really take advantage of the full range of sounds that it offers, but I love the ability to fine-tune in the area that feels good to me. I'm not really ready to call myself a musician - I perform in my living room only, and there is rarely an audience. But I know that ultimately, the true sound is in the fingers, and Alembic construction allows this to come through. The electronic flexibility is the icing on the cake. -Bob | ||
| byoung
New Username: byoung Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2004 |
Alright, Bob, don't hold out on us. I'm dying to know. All those knobs make my heart go pitter-pat. =) Brad | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 701 Registered: 3-2004 |
My guess is Signature electronics plus a bass and treble knob per pickup. | ||
| edwin
Junior Username: edwin Post Number: 48 Registered: 5-2002 |
Andy West's Alembic that was on all those Dixie Dregs album was for sale at Cambridge Music back in the late 80s or early 90s. I thought about getting it, but I didn't really like the way it played. I did love the way Andy played it, though! Edwin | ||
| byoung
New Username: byoung Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 |
Bob (bsee): I don't think that is the full story-- I seem to remember reading that it was something more superfilter-y. If so, I'd love to hear about it. I'm thinking about getting individual bass & treble on my new custom, so I'd be really interested if that was the case. I'm thinking that a sweepable band-pass or sweepable high-pass might be part of Bob's rig. Just speculating (maybe just wishful thinking)... Brad |
