| Author | Message | ||
| lostbass
New Username: lostbass Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 |
i have noticed in the past few years of collecting and playing guitars and basses that the alembic lineup has been significantly devalued by the vintage press and in a general sense at auction sites. i have purchased 2 excellent spoiler basses for less than 1,000 dollars (real ones) in the past few years and have found them to be amazingly good values and fine players with professional parts and construction. so, what is the deal. i am gonna just keep buying and wondering why a (brand name) reissue costs more than my spoiler(s). | ||
| kungfusheriff
Advanced Member Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 297 Registered: 8-2003 |
The vagaries of the market, plus the fact that since many Alembic instruments incorporate features ordered by the original owner from a pallette of options, by design you're buying secondhand somebody else's dream bass. That's my understanding, but like you I'll buy secondhand Alembics whenever I have money to spend until the wife gets tenure and funds my dream bass. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 1567 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hi James, welcome to the group. Perhaps part of the answer to your question relates to how much research buyers or players do. For instance, while I may know a bit more than the average bass player about Alembic basses, I know absolutely nothing about vintage Fender Jazz basses. I've never taken the time to do any research on vintage Jazz basses. Another example from a slightly different tack, while I greatly respect Victor Wooten, his tone, and consequently Fodera basses, I have no desire to own a Fodera bass. My focus is narrowed to Alembic. So perhaps it is with others, that when they focus on vintage basses or used high end basses, their focus is narrowed to a few basses that they are familiar with, to the exclusion of Alembic and others. I've been watching used Alembics on Ebay constantly for several years now. It is my observation that their values, over several years, have remained fairly consistent, trading within certain ranges. So I would disagree with your observation that Alembics have devalued at auction sites. But then I think it not unreasonable that two people can get different impressions from the same data set. | ||
| lostbass
New Username: lostbass Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 |
hi dave and alembic, devalued alembics is a quote from the vintage press. it just got me looking closer at alembic and made me realize that this was an unusual mix of artistry and skill, esp. in an era where guitars were becomng corporate assets, not the instruments i have loved since elvis and the beatles changed the world. i found this site because an ex-employee is selling the most beautiful bass on ebay (hi mica). i had to send pics out to every player i know. go see this bass if you have not. i like being a contrarian and since i have tried almost every bass, i know a little bit about the whole market. the 1960 (brand name) bass, beat up and 10k plus or a custom alembic????? hmmmmmmmm, where is that custom shop site?? thanks for staying the course, you could be owned by a tv network which is owned by 2 initials. glad you are not. off to ebay and another look at that bass. lostbass | ||
| locutusofborg10
Member Username: locutusofborg10 Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2002 |
i have heard talk around town(NYC)that alembics are overpriced and not really of the quality that they're cracked up to be. i atribute this to lack of knowledge of the product and the fact that most bass players think fenders, foderas, etc are superior to alembics. this tells me that the majority of players around have never experienced what an alembic is. yes, there are other high end basses that are as good as alembics or maybe even better but none of them have the support that alembics do. ignorance of research to my mind plays a big part in this. us of inthe club know better and it's to our advantage that used alembics are so affordable. i hope it stys this way so that we can acquire these fabulous basses at a reasonable price. | ||
| essencetimestwo
Member Username: essencetimestwo Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2003 |
Remember when you could get a used Les Paul for $500.00. Then Slash started playing one and they went through the roof. Remember when a Hamer Chapparel was a $1000.00 guitar. Now my friend picks them up for $250.00 regularly. Some instruments value increase and decline with trends. It is true that Alembics may sell for a lot less used than new but they do stay consistent. Alembics will never go out of style and without a high profile player, Stanley excepted of course, chances are there won't be the same flux in value like happened when Floyd Roses went "out" and Strats and Les Pauls came back "in". Geography is probably another factor. Fender is world wide so you can't count them. I would expect that people in NYC would favor Fodera over Alembic. You gotta root for the home-team. Next time someone points out that Fodera is better ask them who came up with the idea of active electronics and laminated exotic woods. Sadowsky and Schecter imitate the great designs that Fender created. Fodera is an imitation of what the Wikershams and crew have created. Believe me I don't intend to discount what Fodera is doing. They make some of the finest instruments I have seen in a while. Just like a player who is looking for his own sound, Smith, Fodera , Sadowsky, Shecter and other like companies take the influence of a tried and true design and method and twist it a little to make it their own. Actually I hope nobody ever catches on and I can continue to collect used Alembics. Have you seen the prices on used Foderas and Sadowskys? Yipes! | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 829 Registered: 3-2004 |
If your exposure to Alembic is a 15-20 year old Spoiler or Persuader, I could see how you might think that $5000+ for an Alembic is overpriced. I suspect that these would be the most common Alembics floating around NYC. In their day, they were better than most of what else was out there. They also seem to hold up better than a lot of other brands, but they don't suggest that a new one would be worth $5K. One other factor about Alembics is their versatility. When I got my first Persuader, I was initially unimpressed by the electronics. It took a few hours of playtime to get used to what they could do and understand just how elegant and capable they were. If you just sat down in a shop to noodle for ten minutes, you might not get it. Then, there are the basic laws of economics. The number of players exposed to Alembic is relatively low compared to some other lines. A combination of the low build quantity and laid back marketing strategies doesn't shove Alembic in your face. Since there are fewer "in the know" about Alembics, there's less competition to purchase the instruments that show up on the used market. Low demand results in a low price. Alembic doesn't sell an inexpensive entry-level instrument to cater to the masses. To do so would invite too many orders and the volume would have an impact on the way Alembic does business. As more people want Alembics, the price of new basses will go up. If they didn't, then the increased demand would also result in too many orders for the factory to handle in the manner they want to. I hope to upgrade my Persuader 5 to something in a Balance K body shape within the next year or two on the used market. As such, I selfishly hope the world doesn't get straightened out too quickly. If it does, though, you can't argue with reality. | ||
| richbass939
Advanced Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2004 |
I know I'm stepping onto marshy ground with my "opinion only" opinion. Some people are devotees of one brand of something. Others like several brands of something. Some people wouldn't be caught dead on anything other than a Harley. Others say they are overpriced and not nearly as reliable or high performing as other bikes. I know people who have Harleys and BMWs and Japanese bikes and like all of them for different reasons and applications. There have been posts on this club from people selling an Alembic because they played another brand for years and couldn't get used to the Alembic. We all have our reasons for liking or not liking something. And they are not all performance, playability, or sound reasons. Personally, I have never liked the way the P- and J-basses' headstocks and tuning keys looked. I admit that is a REALLY STUPID reason for rejecting a bass that has been an important part of several decades of music history. I know that but I still don't like the way they look and have never owned one. We have many good players to look to as examples of Alembic's great contribution to a band's sound. But, there are only 15,000 or so Alembics out there. There isn't that high a probability that people have heard one and knew what they were hearing. I'm glad that Ron, Susan, Mica, et al never moved in the high production arena. I don't think a company can crank out 15,000 or more per year and keep an eye on the details that we've come to expect. There are plenty of people who can afford a new Alembic. The orders keep coming in. Some of us aren't in the market for a new one but are jumping out of our skins at the prospect of picking one up for $1000 to $3000. I don't understand why the used Alembic market isn't hotter than it is and why they don't trade in a higher price range. People buy what they like and they love the stuff that they grew up liking. If they don't love Alembics any more than Fenders, Gibsons, Ricks, etc. then they are unlikely to give $4000 - $15,000 for one. It's just basic consumer behavior theory. I am glad that I appreciate Alembics. They are so far above the rest, in my opinion, I feel like I've been let in on the big secret of bass. I'll count myself as one of the fortunate, relative few. (Edit - Sorry to repeat/rephrase Bsee. Typing at the same time.) Rich (Message edited by richbass939 on April 02, 2005) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 830 Registered: 3-2004 |
Fine with me, Rich, I am usually alone out on the limb. To check your numbers a bit, serial numbers are only approaching 13,500 right now, so there are fewer than you suggest. Also, the same range is used to number guitars and basses, so the bass count is probably closer to 10,000 than 15,000. I have a 1990 with a serial number around 5800 and a 1982 with a number around 2350. They hit 10,000 somewhere between 96-97, so production rates appear to have been relatively steady over the past 15 years in the vicinity of 500 instruments per year. | ||
| richbass939
Advanced Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2004 |
I stand corrected. I thought I saw some FTC pics that showed 15,000 +. I looked again and one that is in progress is 13,800 +. Your 10,000 in 96-97 is about right. My June 95 is under 9200 and my 98 is about 11,300. I don't know how many builders Alembic employs but 500 or so a year is a pretty good production rate, especially considering the attention to detail that obviously goes in them. Rich | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 236 Registered: 3-2004 |
I don't think I could ever sell my Alembics. Perhaps just a twisteed disease I have. Jersey pack rat? Friends at stores have hooked me up on a couple SC deluxe and Spoiler xploiter. Mica and Susan enabled my fetish on 2 non customs. Flax and I are conducting business. I still watch ebay every day and watch bass sites. Value is a relative thing as the learned gentlemen have stated. Desire and need are my motivators. Money is secondary. There is a point in the brain that says, "too much or ok by me". When it clicks... everybody wins! I might be selling off my Non Alembics for ... well.....more Alembics! Ripper, 4003 Jetglo, Blk Tbird. Think of it as recycling dreams. "I'll trade you that doll for that dog... and you're getting the best of the bargain!" Danno | ||
| dadabass2001
Advanced Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 354 Registered: 6-2002 |
Danno, I think this might have been asked of you before, but do your instruments have similar enough tone controls, scales, etc. to hear specific differences in wood voices. If they do sing with their own voice, how do you decide which bass to use for specific songs, or do you choose a "worker" for the night with a backup or two? Mike. | ||
| bigredbass
Advanced Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2002 |
Small shop / custom instruments always fare poorly resale wise in a mass market. This is accelerated by the Guitar Centers/Sam Ash-ing of the market. The vintage market for basses is at this time Fender, and Fender clones (MMs, Sadowskys, Mike Lulls, Laklands, and the other 40 or 50 we could think of) to most buyers are 'exotic' instruments. As long as ALEMBIC is back-ordered and healthy, I'm tickled I can save on used instruments. J o e y | ||
| serialnumber12
Intermediate Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 171 Registered: 12-2004 |
I paid $2,000 Cash in 1980 for (old #12) @ guitarcenter in san francisco,and to me that was a good deal! | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 238 Registered: 3-2004 |
Like children, they all have a different voice. For my Doomtree gig it's dark paint only. No exotic wood. I'm using Kay mostly and having "Fierce" built now. Set neck suits this 2 guitar band well. For Doomtree when I get the bigger tours I can bring an 83 Spoiler Blk BEAD, XL 5 almost blk vptq, Kay XL blkw/ led's spoiler guts and inlays, and "Fierce" XL 5 Distillate guts led's and inlays. Set necks are not as crisp as my others buy thats why I have choices. For the CD I used the 83, the almost blk with F1X-QSC 1602 and acme low b2 miked under a blanket and DI. Danno | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2003 |
I've noted a bunch of trends in this thread. First, there's the "some folks just don't get it,", then there's the "they didn't try the right one," then ... you get the picture. All are on the mark, IMHO. Most of you know I own 15 (yikes!) basses of various makes, to include three Alembics (my prized possessions, BTW). They run the gamut from a '73 Jazz to my Dragon's Wing. I've been fortunate and lucky enough to be able to acquire and play these instruments. I also follow a bunch of sites and monitor what "vintage" instruments are going for. The bottom line is that something is only worth that which someone is willing to pay. For some, that $800 Fender is worth every penny given the music they're playing. For others, only a custom made Alembic will do, and they're willing to pay the price, price increases be damned. For me, I've not played a finer instrument than an Alembic. Period. I have three Gibsons, three Fenders, a Pedulla, a Rick, a Musicman, a Peavey, a Godin, and an Ovation. Some are new, some are not. None of them come close in quality and performance. Don't get me wrong - they all have qualities I like (particularly the Rick - even my Alembics can't come close to sounding like it). But they can't hold a candle in terms of quality, attention to detail, variety of tones, and most of all, that personal touch you just can't buy anywhere else (unless it's a custom builder, which is basically what Alembics are all about). Rich mentioned he never liked the looks of Fender headstocks. I've never liked the omegas on certain Alembics. However, that didn't keep me from trying and eventually buying three of them. I guess, as Rich notes, one needs to keep an open mind and try a bunch of different instruments. You never know what you'll find. Foderas are fine instruments. Fenders are too (well, given what they used to be like in the 70's and 80's, their new instrments are better - I just bought a Jazz Bass Deluxe in Korea, and it's head and shoulders above stuff from the 70's quality wise). It just depends what one likes and can afford. All this being said, I'll never sell my Alembics. To me they epitomize excellence in stringed instrument (bass guitar) construction, playability, versatility, and tonality. On that, I think there are a lot of people here would agree. Alan P.S. Danno - you can't sell that Ripper! It's our link! ;-) Mine's currently undergoing a complete refinish by Jim Warwick of Jim Warwick Guitars, in Vienna VA. Should have it soon. BTW, if you ever need anything done on your guitars, give Jim a call. His work is akin to the quality found in alembics. If you want his website address, email me. I had him refret both my Musicman and my '73 Jazz, and his work was flawless. | ||
| hifibassman
Member Username: hifibassman Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hello everyone, i haven't posted here in maybe a year, but i have to say something. Those who think that the Alembic's are not all that don't know what they are talking about. Yes, Fender and the rest of them have played a major part in shaping music as we all know it. But if their sound was all i had to get excited about, i think the bass music world would have been very dark and dull. Nothing wrong with the Fender philosophy, but why keep remaking fender clones and call it superior? There's more to making a real bass than just slapping on thin metal hardware and high impedance humbucking pickups that dirty up and taint the sound on a pretty piece of wood. What bassists and other people don't understand is that Alembic is all about bass sound perfection. If you listen to the phenominal bassists of our time, you will find that they all have had a series bass in their arsenal at one time or another- there's a reason for that. Back in the 70's when bass ruled, what bass do you think had the most sought after bass sound? Fender clones?? i don't think so. That classic Alembic series bass sound had set the platform that all other basses today strive for, and still cannot match or exceed today. Even the lesser alembic models can't fully compete with a series bass. You don't even have to get a new Alembic to prove this. Get a 70's series bass, and it's sound will still be at the top of the heap even today. The Alembic series bass is legendary, a classic that has re-shaped bass in ways many people to this day don't realize or understand. Just my opinion- hope i didn't offend anyone. | ||
| jlpicard
Intermediate Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 175 Registered: 7-2002 |
BRAVO!! | ||
| rklisme
Intermediate Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 193 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hifi I have to agree with everything you just stated and being the owner of several Alembics I have to state for the record the Series bass is on another planet. I took my 77 Series I out along with my other Alembics to a rehearsal and there is just no comparison. I would recomend to anyone considering a new or used Alembic to get a Series instrument. If I had it all to do over again all my basses would be Series Basses. That being said I think everyone should keep their minds and ears open to all the wonderful basses that are available to us these days! Rory | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 1582 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well, I'm going to disagree to an extent. Randell (Hifibassman) stated: "If their sound [Fender and the rest of them] was all i had to get excited about, i think the bass music world would have been very dark and dull ... If you listen to the phenominal bassists of our time, you will find that they all have had a series bass in their arsenal at one time or another." Now I love the tone I get with my Series bass, and for me there is no substitute. However, I have to disagree with what Randall said (as I have quoted him above); and here's an example of why: I love listening to Marcus Miller; he's a great player and I think he has a great tone. And he's not playing an Alembic. And speaking of great tone, there's that guy Victor Wooten. Now Victor may own an Alembic, but the great tone that you hear on his albums, and those of the Flecktones, is not from an Alembic. There are lots of examples of players with wonderful tone coming from instruments other than Alembic. To say that they are "very dark and dull" I think is perhaps just a wee bit of an exaggeration. | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 239 Registered: 3-2004 |
If you all buy my cd then maybe I can get a Series bass! Well you and a bunch more people. Danno | ||
| rklisme
Intermediate Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 195 Registered: 5-2004 |
Danno Please send me a CD so I can help the cause or at least let me know where to purchase one. Uh, do you take post dated checks? Can I send you a Cashiers check from South Africa in the amount of ten thousand dollars in which after cashing you can take your proceeds and send the balance to my agent in your country which will then forward to me via my Swiss Bank account located in the Caymen Islands. I really need this CD and that is why I am willing to trust you in this matter. Rory | ||
| rover
Junior Username: rover Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2003 |
Rory said... Uh, do you take post dated checks? Can I send you a Cashiers check from South Africa in the amount of ten thousand dollars in which after cashing you can take your proceeds and send the balance to my agent in your country which will then forward to me via my Swiss Bank account located in the Caymen Islands. I really need this CD and that is why I am willing to trust you in this matter. >>>> Rory, I'd be glad to help you out. Just send me your wire transfer information and I'll take care of the rest. Rob P.S. Thanks for the smile. | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 240 Registered: 3-2004 |
no need, virgin, tower, best buy, coconuts, amazon, cdnow, cduniverse, do a search on the web for Doomtree Down Below and you will find it. I'd love to send checks but I have to send one to flax and another to Susan! Can we put a price on our love... apparently we can! 12 grand should cover it! Danno | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 846 Registered: 3-2004 |
Danno- The paycheck from your first show of the arena tour should cover that! Just give it a little time, it's moving in the right direction. -Bob | ||
| hifibassman
Member Username: hifibassman Post Number: 59 Registered: 12-2002 |
I actually like the Fender sound, there are some types of music that "require" a fat, dirty, muted fender tone. Some Fenders are bright or midrangy such as you would find on a Marcus Miller tone. I happen to like the sound of a Jazz bass as well as a precision. I think a Jazz has one of the thickest, smoothest bass sounds around- but it is very limited. Musicman stingrays and Foderas both have distinctive sound character- sounds great. So does Ken Smith, and Warwick, which are very close to the build quality of the Alembics. Overall they are all very pleasing to the ears. And that is really what it's all about. I realize not every bassist will share the same views i have about Alembics, and i may have been a little passionate (or inaccurate if you want to call it that) in the post above, but Alembic series basses have blown my mind. It's like having an extreme Porsche- there's no substitute. It's just legendary. I'm sorry, but there is just no bass in the world that can compete with it. Just looking at that bass tells you that it's something special. The three pickup configuration setup was designed like that for sonic reasons as well as noise filtering- some don't realize that the middle pickup does more than just filter out hum. I believe it has to sense some harmonic content (at a lower signal level due to lack of magnet) between the other two pickups, which compliments and enhances the sound in a subtle way that other basses can't quite achieve. Likewise, there are certain types of music that would not have sounded good or have been possible if it wasn't for the distinction of the series bass. Stanley Clarke would not be known as well as he is if the series bass didn't exist- his precision techniques could not have been developed and articulated on any other bass so distinctively. Listen to some of his '80's "unpopular" recordings- it will absolutely blow your mind the powerful and exotic sounds that come out of the series. "The Who" would not have been known to be the loudest band in the world back in the '70s if it wasn't for John Entwistle and his series/spyder bass signature sound. Go back to Jack Cassidy, Phil Lesh, and the wall of sound days- that was the birthplace of that bass sound. well, i have raved too much on the subject- guess i'll let it go. (Message edited by hifibassman on April 05, 2005) | ||
| jetbass79
Junior Username: jetbass79 Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2005 |
I believe we are talking about value and I think even with the exorbitant amounts of money that can be spent on an instrument, one is still getting a very good value with an Alembic. An instrument that is overbuilt and created with utmost patience and care is really priceless these days where everything is made like cookies from a tube even more so than 30 years ago. You can go and blame C.L. Fender for that but it's not his fault. He was trying to offer something very simple and effective and that he did. Even at Fender in the 1950s if you had a problem with your guitar or amp you could go to the factory and they would fix it for you. What other companies let you talk to them to make sure an order is placed correctly? Who? What other company says "Oh yeah, we've never done that before, let's try it"? And you can create something that is totally 'you' in all respects. If you want to know about frustration with current companies, I tried to get Ernie Ball to make me a Sterling fretless with an ebony fingerboard (instead of pau ferro) and a urethane finished back of the neck instead of oil because oil finishes are not very stable. They wouldn't do it. Even if I would pay more (which I said I would) they wouldn't do it. And to top it off it would take 5 months for a very simple instrument. Most frustrating. However, I cannot forget my roots. I think the song that got me going was Stevie Wonder's "I Was Made to Love Her" and that was played on a Precision. The Fender Bass and the Alembic Bass share a distinction: they are both the first of their kind. One was the first production bass guitar on the planet and the other was the first boutique bass guitar on the planet. So it was natural for me to go to Alembic for the boutique modern sound I have been craving and I'm going to get my money's worth. What is great now about Alembics is that it's not just Series instruments anymore. There are set necks and numerous elctronics packages to soup up a 'cheap' Alembic. That is what we call value. It would be truly amazing if the Alembic I ordered could replace all of my Fenders (seems like a longshot but maybe), then that would prove the value of Alembics in spades. | ||
| ajdover
Intermediate Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think the difference between a Fender (today, anyway) and an Alembic is simply this: when you open the case, you say "WOW!" I bought a Fender Jazz Bass Deluxe in Korea so I'd have something to use while there. I bought it because in terms of what was available it was the best I could get. I didn't marvel at the construction, appearance, etc., when I opened the case. I just said, OK, here's what I'll use while I'm here. Every Alembic I've purchased elicited a significantly different response. When I got my first Alembic (a Spoiler-Exploiter, since sold), all I could say was "wow." Then I bought a Spyder. When I got it, I left it in the case and just looked at it for a few minutes before picking it up and plugging it in. My Europa? Same thing. And my Dragon's Wing? What do you think? Alembic goes beyond mere tone. It is an experience. I didn't know that until I bought one. Now I do. Don't get me wrong - as I've said elsewhere, I love all my basses for different reasons. But none satisfy all the senses (touch, sound, playability, tones, etc.) like an Alembic does. While it is true I can't get an Alembic to sound like some basses (classic J Bass, Rick), it does so many things so well, it more than justifies the cost. Bottom line is a bass is only worth what someone will pay for it. In my estimation, Alembics are worth every penny and then some. Alan | ||
| serialnumber12
Intermediate Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 172 Registered: 12-2004 |
I'm curious at to what a very old series bass would be fetch,for instance serial number (1) im sure some one would be willing probably to pay upwards to $25,clams (thousand)as is, just because it's extremely vintage high-end,ive never had (old#12) appraised, but im assuming around ten-grand,,,and I have turned down eight grand ten yrs ago! | ||
| locutusofborg10
Member Username: locutusofborg10 Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2002 |
talking about the value of alembic basses-i think, and in my opinion, most bass players out there don't have a clue what an alembic is all about. that's why they sell so cheap on the re-sale market. whay would an epic, which costs almost 4 grand new go for 1 grand used? it's great for us alembicians that we can pick up these instruments used so cheap. i'm trying to figure out why 'vintage' fenders sell for so much. i know i wouldn't pay anyway near what i see them go for. i wouldn't even consider buying a fender after playing an alembic. fenders couldn't hold alembic's jock strop in any area. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 469 Registered: 6-2002 |
It's really not fair to compare Fenders to Alembics. For the past 45 years, the Jazz Bass has reigned supreme as the world's best selling Bass. You see them everywhere! It's inexpensive, very player friendly, and has a versatile tone. It can be heard on most recordings of the past three generations and it has been played by the greatest and most influential players in history. Most of these guys could easily afford Alembics, Foderas, Ken Smiths etc..., but they chose the Jazz Bass for a reason. I've played the Jazz Bass all my life. I love my Alembics, but Fenders - and especially the Jazz Bass will always be a staple in my aresenal. As for why Vintage Fenders fetch what they do, it's because of the demand for the subtle differences that distinguish the eras they represent (Stack knobs - circa '60 - '61, dot inlays vs block inlays, 3 bolt neck vs 4 bolt, etc...). Jazz Basses also look cool. Play what you like and what sounds best to you! And I'd rather own a '63 Corvette than a new Ferrari. (Message edited by rami on April 10, 2005) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 405 Registered: 7-2004 |
As for vintage Fenders, don't forget the most significant difference in value: Pre-CBS vs. Post-CBS. Bill, tgo | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 460 Registered: 4-2004 |
oh darn isms.... one man gathers what another man spills there is nothing like a grateful dead concert nothing else sounds like an alembic checks in the mail you wanna put that where? one mans shit is another mans gold aint often right and i never been wrong seldom turns out the way it does in a song. i will never buy a fender bass. i never liked em and i never will. i think lots of people buy them because they think they are supposed to | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 470 Registered: 6-2002 |
(Message edited by rami on April 10, 2005) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 471 Registered: 6-2002 |
Whatever turns you on... I don't question people's motives or tastes. Instruments are really just tools. A good musician can make anything sound good. | ||
| beelee
Member Username: beelee Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2004 |
this topic is starting to sound like the Bass Descrimination topic........ My first bass was a copy of a Fender Jazz bass, why did I buy it ? I liked the way it looked and it was what I could afford, it sounded good as well, 25 years later I no longer have it, and haven't owned another Fender till about 3 years ago I bought a used Japanese Fender Precision that someone had put EMG pup in and a Kahler whammy bar on, it sounds and plays great, thats why I bought it........its unique, just like the 15 other basses I play, Alembics, Conklins, Fodera, Guild, Hamer, Michael Kelly, Pedulla, Peavey, Roland, Ibanez, Zeta and Tobias, all play and sound great and are more or less one of a kind, thats why I chose them, there are so many good instruments out there now days, its really a waste of time to argue or put down one brand over another, in the end its the players choice and whatever sounds good, after all the music you make comes from the hands, heart and soul, 5 people can pick up the same instrument, play through the same rig and all sound different whether they are using an Alembic, Fender or something else. The prices on certain instruments is some times outrageous, and I never thought I'd pay that much for a bass, but you only live once and I'm getting a very unique and personal instrument like nothing else on the planet. but that's my choice. B. | ||
| serialnumber12
Intermediate Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 177 Registered: 12-2004 |
"And the band plays on!" | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 1591 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Great googalooga, can't you hear me talking to you!" | ||
| bigbadbill
Intermediate Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 177 Registered: 10-2003 |
Quote -"Play what you like and what sounds best to you!" Amen Rami! Quote -"And I'd rather own a '63 Corvette than a new Ferrari." I second that too!!!! Good man.... | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2004 |
Give me the new Ferrari any day! Dreaming! Rory | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 411 Registered: 7-2004 |
I want the best of both worlds - I'll take a '63 Ferrari, please. If I can't have that, I'm with Rory. The '63 Vette is a really cool looking low tech car that can go fast in a straight line - it's the pre-cbs fender bass. The Ferrari is the Alembic. (In fact I had a conversation with Susan where I gave my opinion that just as a true Ferrari is a 12 cylinder, a true Alembic is a neck-thru - one of the reasons for my choosing Further over Tribute). Bill, tgo | ||
| jacko
Intermediate Member Username: jacko Post Number: 162 Registered: 10-2002 |
Quote 'a true Alembic is a neck-thru ' Can't agree with you Bill. A true Alembic has an Alembic Logo and An Alembic Serial number and was handcrafted by the Alembic elves, just like my set neck Epic, - and I'll fight every one of you who dares to say any different ;-) graeme | ||
| grateful
Junior Username: grateful Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2004 |
Well I have to agree with Graeme on the "true Alembic definition", though I also agree with you Bill: I went for the Further rather than the Tribute mostly for the neck-thru construction. Regarding "value": I could have bought an off the shelf Paul Reed Smith for about the same price as my custom Further! For what they are, I think Alembics are remarkably cheap . Mark, ago | ||
| jetbass79
Junior Username: jetbass79 Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2005 |
Some of us actually prefer the midrange punch of a glued-in neck instrument. My understanding with regards to manufacture of through neck instruments for alembic was that it was simpler to produce than "figuring out how to make a really accurate joint and glue it," to quote Rick Turner from the Bass Book. To say an Alembic is cheap is plain wrong. The day Alembic starts making these things from chipboard a la Gibson's crappy Kalamazoo guitars (which will never happen) one can call them cheap. I don't know if anyone has been paying attention to gas prices, but I wouldn't be caught dead with a '63 Vette or a Ferrari. Not to mention that a Corvette of any year is simply a V-8 powered vibrator on wheels. I don't recall Alembics having really poor gas mileage anyway... | ||
| southpaw
Junior Username: southpaw Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2004 |
I love my Orion with the set neck, though I am greedy and want a through neck too. The body wood of a set neck plays more of a role in tone than the body wings of a through neck if I understand luthier 101 correctly. Jetbass is right, I know a few luthiers that agree a good neck joint is much harder to create. Compare some of mid 70's F**der Jazz necks joints to a G&L (I own both, no disrespect intended, relax Rami, I have a '75 Jazz) the G&L neck joint is far superior. Some people say that only Series basses have the "true" Alembic sound - different strokes for different folks. The nice thing about Alembic; lots of options to meet everyone's needs. Just keep playing! | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 414 Registered: 7-2004 |
John (jetbass79): If I could afford the Ferrari, I could afford the gas too. Bill, tgo | ||
| grateful
Junior Username: grateful Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2004 |
John, I am using the word "cheap" in it's true sense. I really feel that for what they are (hand built stunning instruments!), Alembics do not cost very much money, i.e. they're cheap. (Cheap does not mean crap.) Mark, ago | ||
| hifibassman
Member Username: hifibassman Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2002 |
As much as i appear to be a fanatic about Alembics- i listened to the artists that play the Fender Jazz and Musicman Stingray bass over on basslobster.com. I really like the sound of a jazz very much, really liked the fretless Jaco was playing. Then i saw the Mark King video with that series bass (awesome). The jazz bass (and the others) in those videos are good for certain musical venues, and the Alembic to me stood out as a standard of excellence in fine sound, build quality, and looks. After looking at those videos and other basses i have played before, i suppose the ultimate combo of basses that i would play and own are (1) Alembic series, (2) Musicman stingray, (3) Fender Jazz, (4) Warwick thumb neck thru, (5) MTD with active emg's, (6) Fender Precision. A couple of these would be fretless. The Alembic would be my primary tool as it has the most amazing sonic abilities of the group. This is my dream gear. | ||
| keith_h
Junior Username: keith_h Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2005 |
I love the sound of my Alembics and agree that you can get any number of tones/sounds. I also like the tone of my Jazz bass for certain songs. Even though I can get those tones by tweeking my Alembics I don't have time in a live setting as the Alembic controls are quite sensitive. For me it is just easier to switch basses and know that the sound I am looking for is in the one I have strapped on. Keith |
