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Alembic Club » Alembic Basses & Guitars » Archive through November 22, 2013 » Should we allow Authorised Alembic Dealers to list items for sale on the site? « Previous Next »

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jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 3630
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 3:11 am:   Edit Post

After reading this, I though I'd share some of my thoughts.
http://alembic.com/club/messages/395/175640.html?1380080805

Firstly let me say that I agree and appreciate wholeheartedly that this site is not a place for open commercial sales and I think it benefits from that.

However i do think there is room for discussion about how strict this should be.

What about if we made exceptions for authorised Alembic Dealers to list a "few" instruments that they have for sale.
There could be guidelines set to prevent the section becoming an on-line catalogue. A simple one off listing with a small picture a few words and a link to the instrument on their site. No elaborate lenghty postings, banners, discussion threads on the listing or bumping of the listing etc. and removal once sold and/or after a fixed period of time.

There is a section in the on-line store that lists new alembics for sale from authorised dealers so there is a kind of loose precedent set there for dealers. http://alembic.stores.yahoo.net/basinstocnow.html

With many of us choosing to buy used alembics this would I think be a useful resource and with the ebay scams appearing now and again, this may offer a safer option for a buyer. There are numerous listings of instruments from various sources on the internet posted here be me and other so this also kind of allows a commercial business an opening on the site anyway.

What do we think about this?
What about a trial?

I'd be happy to moderate the section if it became a reality.

Let me also say that I don't have any interest, loyalty or connection to company posting the listing on the forum other than buying a commission sale guitar from them about 4 years ago.

Jazzyvee

(Message edited by Jazzyvee on September 25, 2013)
count
Intermediate Member
Username: count

Post Number: 123
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 3:55 am:   Edit Post

My two cents:

Principly I mean there is room for "ads" like this in the "seen on craigslist, ebay, etc" section of the selling and trading forum.
I honestly don't see the difference in posting a link to i.e. gbase (where I found my bass) and posting a link to a webshop, as is the case in that thread.

However, this is something that could get wildly out of control, if there's no sort of moderation in effect.
groovelines
Senior Member
Username: groovelines

Post Number: 758
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 8:53 am:   Edit Post

This site is already a merchant's site: Alembic and links to their authorized dealers. Something to be considered is whether or not permitting outside sales advertising will benefit or hinder Alembic's ability to conduct business in a manner acceptable to Alembic. Those considerations are outside our guest privileges.

The Alembic Club exists because the business exists and is an extension of their sales side of the site. The existing posting area for "Seen on craigslist . . . " and the notice from Alembic that "this is not a commercial market place" tells me that Alembic has already made their intentions known. However subtle, I think there are also differences in intent and financial gain when the membership posts third party ads versus merchants posting direct. I hope that makes sense.

My underlying feeling when on this site is one of relationship and trust and it's something the Wickersham Family and the Alembic staff have gone to great lengths to cultivate and nurture. By extension, I tend to think that way about the dealers they have chosen to do business with even though I've never done business with them. Not sure how one would maintain that culture by opening up a direct sales area without a tremendous amount of energy and oversight.

In this specific case, Guitar Resurrection is an authorized Alembic dealer and is listed on the dealers page. Not excusing them, just pointing out their relationship with Alembic.

Jazzyvee, please excuse my under-caffeinated ramble. I would like a central location to search for Alembic gear, but I'm not sure this is the place for it. For the present time, my preference is to continue the current policy. But it's not my house, ergo not my rules. Who knows? Alembic could change their mind.

Another option There is nothing preventing someone from creating a unique site for merchants to advertise whatever Alembic-only gear they have.

Mike
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 1582
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 9:03 am:   Edit Post

Us posting links in the "Seen on..." page is members helping members. Us posting our own instruments on "For Sale..." is members helping members. A store joining the forum just to post there is taking advantage of the Wickershams' hospitality to get free advertising.

Peter
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3036
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 9:33 am:   Edit Post

In my opinion ,

Actions keeping the " Mother Ship" afloat with sails on all three masts rigged with well kept sails is important. The crew of the ship need to eat and fair well in all respects of international commerce. The ship must prevail !

Therefore ; if a commercial entity posts here perhaps they might be wiling to pay a listing fee or a percentage of the revenue generated as a result of the concentrated and specialized interest in all things Alembic that this site attracts. 3 masted schooner
lidon2001
Senior Member
Username: lidon2001

Post Number: 519
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 9:56 am:   Edit Post

Shouldn't users alert moderators instead of acting upon themselves?

We've seen plenty of dealer guitars in the Alembic Store. Maybe Mica's busy and can't put them there and the fine Alembic dealer posted what is essentially the same as a link in the Alembic Store.

Wow....
serialnumber12
Senior Member
Username: serialnumber12

Post Number: 1046
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 10:40 am:   Edit Post

what about alembic authorized repair shops outside alembic because most of us live in other countries/states & trusting your bass with in the hands someone other than alembic can be worrisome,i flew from Chicago for a simple rewiring this summer which was costly.
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 1906
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post

Since none of us other than Alembic and the moderators will have to deal with it I think it is best left up to Alembic to decide the issue. In this case GuitarRez is an authorized dealer so in a way they are Alembic community informing the Alembic community of a guitar it has. The problem as I see it is a non-authorized dealer sees the post and decides to post an Alembic they have in stock. Maybe a better long term idea is to create an authorized dealer posting thread in the For Sale section.

Keith
hammer
Senior Member
Username: hammer

Post Number: 410
Registered: 9-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:10 pm:   Edit Post

I think the other potential issue to which some have alluded would be shops that have "broken-in" (i.e., used) Alembic Basses to sell and about which they want to post. Allowing the posting of used equipment by shops would in fact hurt the bottom-line of the mother ship. I think it's amazing (and says a lot about the hearts of Mica, Susan, and Ron) that a site supported by Alembic allows its users to post used gear for sale including that of non-Alembic origin.
eligilam
Senior Member
Username: eligilam

Post Number: 409
Registered: 2-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:36 pm:   Edit Post

I guess I'm underthinking this: links posted by merchants just gives me more chances to look at Alembics---which is one of the main reasons for visiting this site!
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 11180
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:40 pm:   Edit Post

Speaking as a moderator, but not necessarily as a spokesperson for Alembic, here is my take. The moderators do watch for commercial posts to the For Sale section, and we do appreciate it when you notify us by email when you see things that look questionable.

It is my understanding from past discussions with Alembic that there is a bit of flexibility in the non-commercial rule when it comes to authorized dealers posting about Alembic instruments. And I think the example cited in this thread is a good example of when we're able to be flexible. The post is simple and straightforward, and the dealer isn't posting a lot of stuff.

But it is indeed a difficult area. We definitely don't need a lot of commercial posts in what is essentially a club members forum. On the other hand, Alembic does want its dealers to do well with regard to their decision to carry Alembic instruments.

Again, I'm not speaking for Alembic here, and I do not know what if any communication the shop may have had with the dealer about posting in the section. But my prior discussions with Alembic suggest that the present instance is an example of posting that falls within the area of our being flexible.
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 8024
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 1:47 pm:   Edit Post

Dave is pretty much thinking along the lines of what I was thinking there.

Here's the deal: You are never going to see a thousand listings for new Alembics from our dealers. I don't mind authorized dealers posting new Alembics they get in the appropriate section here. If they start spamming all the topics, I'll have to call and give them a telephonic finger shaking.

I was torn at one point about non-Alembic gear being posted here, but so long as it's a member known here, I don't have an issue with it - we're just helping each other. When some noob registers and posts an amp for sale, I have an issue with that.
5a_quilt_top
Intermediate Member
Username: 5a_quilt_top

Post Number: 179
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 2:28 pm:   Edit Post

After all, the only reason we're selling our non-Alembic gear is to fund additional ALEMBIC purchases!
cozmik_cowboy
Senior Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 1583
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 7:47 pm:   Edit Post

Yes, Ma'am.

Peter
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 2037
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 9:34 pm:   Edit Post

I'm with Dave and Mica:

If Guitar Resurrection or Will Gunn or any authorized dealers post a 'heads up' about a piece they have for sale in the right place, well, to me, they've earned it.

Mica is very gracious to allow us 'usual suspects' to post personal turn-and-burn pieces that aren't Alembic.

The only problem I have is I do see more than a few 'new' members posting 'other' expensive axes, no doubt thinking this might be a place to advertise, since the buy-in on Alembics ain't cheap. And then these same cats vanish after the ad, never post anything else on any topic. That's just chicken, and not the vibe we're used to. If these 'in & out' 'new' members aren't posting to sell an Alembic, what's the point?

J o e y
bigredbass
Senior Member
Username: bigredbass

Post Number: 2038
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 25, 2013 - 9:40 pm:   Edit Post

And I forgot to mention, I've been around here since 2002, and I don't ever remember any Alembic dealer posting very often at all, and frankly, I don't know why they don't show up here more often than they do.

J o e y
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 3423
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 26, 2013 - 1:39 am:   Edit Post

", I don't know why they don't show up here more often than they do. "

... Preaching to the converted?

besides, there's already a section for authorised dealers on the main site so any non-members looking for an Alembic would surely land there first

Graeme
malthumb
Senior Member
Username: malthumb

Post Number: 549
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2013 - 7:02 pm:   Edit Post

Glad Mica weighed in on this one. Especially since she's not slamming the door closed on the idea. A couple thoughts in the event that there is any sort of a formal move to this idea.

One forum that I am associated with only allows "Supporting Members" to post for sale ads. Supporting membership costs $20/yr. then you don't have to care whether the seller ever posts again. Buyers do not have to be Supporting Members, but sellers do.

Another forum requires a member have a certain minimum number of posts before they are eligible to post gear for sale. Like Alembic Club, that forum is also company sponsored by a family run instrument builder.

As far as posting used Alembics for sale hurting Alembic's business? I think the most likely buyer of a new Alembic is the owner of a used Alembic. A used Spoiler was my "gateway drug". If this forum was around when I was in the market for my first Alembic, I would have had a better selection of used instruments to choose from and would probably have gotten into the game earlier. If I had purchased it from a dealer listing a used instrument on the Alembic Club, I would probably be more predisposed to buying new from that same dealer.

Peace,

James

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