Your input requested on User names & ... Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

Alembic Club » Alembic Basses & Guitars » Archive through June 18, 2005 » Your input requested on User names & Full names - proposed change to board « Previous Next »

Author Message
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1809
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 1:52 pm:   Edit Post

When this Alembic Club discussion board was first created, both the username and the full name of the member were shown to the left of messages. Then at one point, in response to an isolated issue that was unknown to most of the members, that format was changed so that only the username was shown beside the message. Well that particular issue appears to no longer be a problem, and we are considering a return to the original format of having both the user name and full name shown beside the message.

One reason we see a need for making this change is that when members first join and create their usernames, they probably haven't seen all the other usernames yet; thus, some of the usernames have ended up being quite similar. Another reason is that while some usernames are great for uniquely identifying an individual, they aren't always easily used when addressing someone directly in a post.

So, we would like your feedback. Does anybody object to showing the full names beside messages? What we would probably do is give a lead time of 2 to 4 weeks after announcing the change to give people time to change the full names in their profiles in case they feel the need. Let us know what you think.
lowlife
Intermediate Member
Username: lowlife

Post Number: 170
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 1:56 pm:   Edit Post

I have no objections.
Ellery (Lowlife)
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 925
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 2:12 pm:   Edit Post

Since full name is already visible on demand by looking at a member's profile, you're not making any private information public by including it.
dnburgess
Senior Member
Username: dnburgess

Post Number: 412
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 2:18 pm:   Edit Post

I think its a good idea - will make it a bit more personable.
palembic
Senior Member
Username: palembic

Post Number: 2026
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 2:56 pm:   Edit Post

Good moderating. Let's do it! Or we go for Paul Lindemans or for Paul the bad one or PTBO

Paul the bad one
fthec
New
Username: fthec

Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 3:48 pm:   Edit Post

Yes do it! Itīs a nice idea.
hilmar
dadabass2001
Advanced Member
Username: dadabass2001

Post Number: 378
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 4:05 pm:   Edit Post

No problem switching back for me, I was disappointed when the full names were dropped previously.
Mike Addyman Sr.
wideload
Member
Username: wideload

Post Number: 85
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 4:53 pm:   Edit Post

As long as you don't use my profile at witnessprotection.gov...

Larry
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 729
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:02 pm:   Edit Post

It's OK with me but does bring one question to mind. Why have both? What is the purpose of usernames other than anonymity? I guess that's two questions.

I think that most here sign our posts with our name already so having it to the side would be a good move IMO.

Sam
groovelines
Advanced Member
Username: groovelines

Post Number: 235
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:03 pm:   Edit Post

"Make it so."

Mike
fmm
Member
Username: fmm

Post Number: 88
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:14 pm:   Edit Post

Fine by me.

F. Michael Miller
byoung
Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 5:28 pm:   Edit Post

I'd like that.

I hate having to pull the profile when responding to get a person's real name.

Brad
mgirouard3
Junior
Username: mgirouard3

Post Number: 40
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:31 pm:   Edit Post

Sounds good
tom_z
Intermediate Member
Username: tom_z

Post Number: 138
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:42 pm:   Edit Post

It's a nice idea, and very considerate of Alembic to ask our opinions. =)

Tom
dela217
Senior Member
Username: dela217

Post Number: 511
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:42 pm:   Edit Post

No objections here. I usually look at the profiles when I post anyway. That way I can address the user's name and not username.

Thanks!
Michael
rover
Junior
Username: rover

Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 6:57 pm:   Edit Post

Fine by me.

John Doe
dwmark
Junior
Username: dwmark

Post Number: 27
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 7:09 pm:   Edit Post

The good thing about this is I'm finally going to see how many members there are in the club. I vote YES.

David
4u2nv
Member
Username: 4u2nv

Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 7:22 pm:   Edit Post

Fine with me, Go 4 it !!!!

Thanks to consider us.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 473
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 8:31 pm:   Edit Post

Call me anything but late for dinner!

Bill, tgo
alanbass1
Member
Username: alanbass1

Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:20 am:   Edit Post

No problem
bob
Senior Member
Username: bob

Post Number: 440
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post

Great, though I'd keep the username as the big blue linked one, and put the full name in fine print, i.e. where is says 'Username: xxx' right now.

I always thought having the full name in big blue was kind of distracting, and I happen to be better at remembering the shorter ones, but I'd really like to see both.

Bob "Bob" Bob.
dubalbal
Intermediate Member
Username: dubalbal

Post Number: 110
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:50 am:   Edit Post

OK !!!
jacko
Intermediate Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 198
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 3:03 am:   Edit Post

Fine by me. Saves looking up someones profile (which can take some time).

graeme
grateful
Member
Username: grateful

Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 4:04 am:   Edit Post

That's cool with me.

Mark
richbass939
Advanced Member
Username: richbass939

Post Number: 273
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 5:07 am:   Edit Post

I agree with Bob "Bob" Bob. Put the Bob part in big blue and the Bob Novy part in fine print.
Rich Bob
s_wood
Intermediate Member
Username: s_wood

Post Number: 136
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 5:23 am:   Edit Post

Great idea, but we should hang on to the use names for awhile as that is how we know each other.
hydrargyrum
Intermediate Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 117
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:01 am:   Edit Post

I concur with all the above.
smokin_dave
Advanced Member
Username: smokin_dave

Post Number: 220
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:18 am:   Edit Post

Why not?
keith_h
Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 79
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:24 am:   Edit Post

Doesn't bother me and it would speed things up not having to pull up profile to get name.
hifibassman
Member
Username: hifibassman

Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:37 am:   Edit Post

If it's ok with everyone else, it's ok with me.
senmen
Senior Member
Username: senmen

Post Number: 444
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 7:09 am:   Edit Post

Dave,
of course, go ahead.
I think all we Alembicians donīt mind of having our real names posted as we are a big family.

Oliver (Spyderman)
mattheus
Intermediate Member
Username: mattheus

Post Number: 125
Registered: 5-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 8:31 am:   Edit Post

Go for it!!!! Let's find who is behind those names......
'will the real ..... stand up please...'
jseitang
Member
Username: jseitang

Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:13 am:   Edit Post

no problemo dave. it would actually relieve some of the confusing nicknames
exploiterplayer
Member
Username: exploiterplayer

Post Number: 79
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

do it
bassman10096
Senior Member
Username: bassman10096

Post Number: 725
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post

Good with me, too.

Bill
jalevinemd
Intermediate Member
Username: jalevinemd

Post Number: 164
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post

And just as I was about to re-register as "Thor, Six String God of Thunder." Oh well...

Jonathan
staemius
Junior
Username: staemius

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post

In.
stoney
Advanced Member
Username: stoney

Post Number: 399
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post

makes good sense to me. beats calling someone,
"*$^98hg99n gha9"
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 409
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post

Yup, I'm in. As long as you don't post how crappily I play...
John
sfnic
Junior
Username: sfnic

Post Number: 50
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:29 pm:   Edit Post

John - They can retrofit a new "zero-crap" filter into your old Series I, you know. Rumor has it that there's a "Stanley" mod for it, as well. But there's a $600k upcharge...
sfnic
Member
Username: sfnic

Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:30 pm:   Edit Post

... Of course, I installed a prototype of that filter on one of my basses, and it promptly filtered out everything I played. Took me a while to figure out why my bass had no output...
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 410
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:41 pm:   Edit Post

That's the downside of playing an Alembic. It's not the bass' fault anymore... ;)
John
laytonco
Junior
Username: laytonco

Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 1:45 pm:   Edit Post

This forum, if you will, is really more like a family. If someone doesn't want to share their name, or has some reason not to want to share then name, perhaps there are forums elsewhere that they would be more suited to.
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 502
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 4:19 pm:   Edit Post

well i dunno- but my ex girlfriend found me through google and it posted my email address from this site... so me and my buddy down below are sure pertty happy right now
kilowatt
Junior
Username: kilowatt

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 4:26 pm:   Edit Post

Works for me too.

Pete
malthumb
Advanced Member
Username: malthumb

Post Number: 334
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 6:36 pm:   Edit Post

Do it and I'll sue.











Just kiddin'. Go for it.

Peace,

James Martin
ajdover
Advanced Member
Username: ajdover

Post Number: 226
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 9:02 pm:   Edit Post

OK by me. We call each other by our names in our posts most of the time anyway, so no biggie.

Alan
wayne
Intermediate Member
Username: wayne

Post Number: 122
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:10 am:   Edit Post

Hmmmm, I'm trying to think if this'll be a problem for me.......


C-Ya.........wayne
midnight_sun
Junior
Username: midnight_sun

Post Number: 12
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post

Good idea. While you're at it, why not include the state-Area or in my case, country where the member is registered. This way it makes it interesting to know where the contributors are from.

Marlon Sy from Finland in Scandinavia
phil
New
Username: phil

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post

I'm fine with it ;)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 339
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 1:32 pm:   Edit Post

Sorry to spoil the party.

But unless it's possible to 100% guarantee that an ID with the poster's real name listed below it cannot be associated by a web spider, then I am not happy about this at all. I have no objection to people finding my name by actually clicking on the ID link, as spiders are unable to do this.

I use various forums and newsgroups for other subjects which interest me or are related to my business - none of them display true names although they may be required for registration purposes, which is fine by me.

I really do not see the benefit of doing this other than convenience and looking at the value of the instruments hanging around, associating real name and ID makes it one step easier for the not-so-nice people living on the planet to get a step closer without having to click on the ID link to find that information.

"If the truck ain't broke - don't fix it".

I wish to make it known that if this change takes place, then I would like my registration to be deleted from the Alembic Club.

Dave / Mica - I will be e-mailing you to draw to your attention my opinion.

Roger

(Message edited by rogertvr on May 27, 2005)
bob
Senior Member
Username: bob

Post Number: 443
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 1:49 pm:   Edit Post

My, my... While I share your concerns in general Roger, unless I'm mistaken you can type whatever you please in the name field of your profile. I encourage you to give that a try, prior to resigning from the group.
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 2466
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 2:02 pm:   Edit Post

You won't need to notify us otherwise - it's right here on this thread.

Spiders actually do click on every link on the website, even the edit post link. I watch them as the logs scroll by everyday. Especially MSN, they love to click on everything, it really slows the site down. Even if your configuration doesn't invite spiders, many (most!) do not respect the settings.

The benefit is to not have to refer to the profile in discussions where people are naturally addressing themselves by first name instead of user name.

I completely understand if you wish to either change your profile information or delete your account. This is expressly why we are discussing the matter before any change to the original configuration would take place.

You may want to edit your profile so you receive emails when the announcement page is updated, if it isn't already. That is where any announcement for changes to the Alembic Club will be posted, and always with notice so that any individual will have time to make any changes the see fit.
ctjim
New
Username: ctjim

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 2:39 pm:   Edit Post

Hi all, time for my inaugaral post. That done, my vote is for the change.
jlpicard
Advanced Member
Username: jlpicard

Post Number: 204
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 2:57 pm:   Edit Post

I'm all for it. Wish it never changed. Mike
richbass939
Advanced Member
Username: richbass939

Post Number: 275
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 3:35 pm:   Edit Post

First of all, I like the proposed change.
Secondly, my opinion is that the people who donít want to give very much personal information are not necessarily being paranoid buttheads. I havenít been in the club for very long but I feel very comfortable with all of you. However, my wife doesnít know much about the club and wants to be cautious. Anyone who has internet access can read the posts, look at the profiles, see the pictures of our instrument collections and any of our other possessions that happen to be in the background. Out of respect for my wifeís wishes I have left my profile somewhat vague.
If people are uncomfortable giving complete info then they can give a partial answer or skip a field altogether. The club design can be changed to make it more convenient for the members without compromising our ability to make our lives and property secure.
Rich

(Message edited by richbass939 on May 29, 2005)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 340
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 3:59 pm:   Edit Post

I respect Bob's point - however, to change my personal details in my profile would surely be a backward step? At present, I feel no need to hide my identity, as it is available to members who wish to click on my profile.

I hate to do this but I'm going to - a personal e-mail conversation between myself and Mica...
"...do be aware that the spiders will crawl on
EVERY link, invited or not. This is true web-wide. And while I too wish for technology to be respectful of configurations, the spider operators do not seem to be like-minded."

Ok, fine. As I replied to Mica...
" I know what spiders are capable of - I'm a web programmer!

I do not see, however, the point of making their job a step easier. Especially in the name of convenience.

I really do implore that you leave the Club as it is!"

From Mica - "At this point Roger, it's somethign we're exploring, and it's to _restore_
it to the original way (names are preserved on old posts). As a web
programmer, I'm sure you're aware that the spiders are already doing what
you fear."

I also sent to Mica this comment -
"I have to ask that, as spiders are crawling every link, why do I not get spam e-mail from my Alembic Club registration when my e-mail address is there for all spiders to see who bother to look? E-mail addresses are a ripe target for spam as I know you are well aware!"

The e-mail address that is registered to this Club receives zero spam e-mail because it is registered with companies that I trust - and if the spiders were trawling the profiles here, surely I would be receiving spam e-mail?

This truck is not broken - do not fix it.
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 2467
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 4:37 pm:   Edit Post

Roger - perhaps you are misunderstanding something. We are not propsing to put your email address in the left hand column of the posts, simply your first and last name. This is the way the Club operated when you registered in January 2003. It wasn't until April or May 2003 that I removed the "real names" from the left hand column.

I can assure you that the spiders are looking at _every_ link on this website, it is silly to suggest otherwise since I personally watch the log files. I would also suggest that not all spiders are for the sole purpose of spamming.

I appreciate if emails are publicized that they are in full context. The rest of the message I sent to Roger was:
I am leaning to restoring full names on posts, but have not made a decision on this matter yet. Since we made the Club for
use by humans, usability for humans should be paramount.
Anything on a public website is publicly available, and putting a user's name on a post is not putting the email address, geographic details or bass collection inventory on a post.

I will take everyone's opinions in consideration, and I appreciate your input.


Any changes to the Club will be posted in the Announcement section with adequate notice for anyone to make any changes they see fit. I will be taking everyone's opinion under consideration before deciding this matter. So please, keep the opinions coming.
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 2468
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 4:42 pm:   Edit Post

For those concerned about possible spammers, there is a checkbox in the profile editor to allow your real email address to be hidden. Check the box next to:

Do not display my real e-mail address with my profile

and your email will only be available to the moderators of the Alembic Club.
811952
Senior Member
Username: 811952

Post Number: 411
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 27, 2005 - 5:53 pm:   Edit Post

-Or you can always list your email address as something like johnATindstateDOTedu if you like. That way, we get the email address (after some editing) and it is meaningless to a bot.
John
bob
Senior Member
Username: bob

Post Number: 444
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post

(welcome James - ctjim - we're sort of involved here at the moment, as you can see, but mustn't forget our manners. and your joining in this context was a good reminder that while i might have been able to guess at Jim, taking that detour to look at your profile was the only way to figure out that you seem to prefer James.)

I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing with you, Roger - we have been asked to express and discuss our views, to help in making the decision, and that's all I'm doing.

"This truck is not broken - do not fix it."

Well, the way I read it, the suggested change got something on the order of 50 responses in as many hours - far exceeding even the occasional frenzies to buy those stunning little wooden boxes - and unless I missed something, yours is the lone dissenting vote so far.

While 'broken' may be a bit extreme, I'm in the camp that hangs out here partly because it is by far the most friendly and supportive forum I've ever encountered on the web - not just for Alembic products, but in some far more personal ways.

Like others above, I like the personal touch, and since I happen to be lousy with names, it bothers me when the best I can do without a separate lookup is to use SoM for son_of_magni, as an example. With the new server, it's not as prohibitive as it was before, but it's still quite a nuisance.

Despite what you stated in your first post here (and later corrected), I've been well aware the spiders/bots/crawlers will click the links, and potentially find stuff like our names, email addresses, current bands, ages, sex (what?), etc.

I truly am a bit of a privacy freak, so I thought long and hard about whether to suppress my email address (using the options that Mica describes), and decided that for the sake of this group, and the potential contacts it might entail, it was worth the risk to expose it. To my knowledge - and I had recently switched email addresses - I'm not getting spammed as a result of registering here. And I've made some friends, that I would not have otherwise.

Not to say there is no risk. But you can hide your email (just a friendly reminder - as of right now, you have not yet done so!), and disguise your name as you please (entirely in jest, might I suggest 'Roger ImNotParanoidSpidersReallyAreChasingMe, Esq.'?)

Even if you prefer to think of this as "going back" (not my view), as Mica points out, it would be to the state we were in at the time you registered.

Given all that, methinks thou doth protest too much. Probably mangled the quote, but you get the point?
-Bob

(edited to add the following)

I really do worry about this stuff - recently a friend wanted to take some photos in my home, and I insisted that he not, because I happen to have some expensive hi fi gear and such, and had a break-in attempt many years back (though they wouldn't have got much at the time). I also keep some of my blinds closed at all times for similar reasons - and you can choose to hide or expose here whatever is right for you, even under the proposed change.

If I understand how this works, changing the display to show full names rather than user names would only affect future posts - unless the site was completely rebuilt, as it was with the recent server migration. In that case, it seems to me it would pick up your current profile settings, and so also not put you at further risk.

(Message edited by bob on May 28, 2005)
senmen
Senior Member
Username: senmen

Post Number: 445
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 3:07 am:   Edit Post

Spyders?

I LOVE SPYDERS! (only the Alembic ones of course)

Oliver
(Spyderman)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 341
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:13 am:   Edit Post

The point I'm trying to make is that if spiders are already trawling the Alembic Club and clicking on the ID links, as my name is there and my e-mail address is there, shouldn't I be getting fifteen shed-loads of junk e-mail to that address every day? I get none. So to my mind, that smacks of the fact that whatever information is collected by those spiders from the profile pop-up page - it's either not being used or not being collected at all. For this reason, I would rather not have the ID link and proper name sat together in the thread. I use that ID for lots of other things, anonymously, and putting them together in here strikes me as a backward move.

Now, I'd rather not part company with you nice folks in here, so if the change goes ahead, I'll butcher my profile so that there's next to no info in it. Which I also consider to be a backward step and if a lot a people choose to do that - that change isn't going to meet its intended aim is it?

Regarding Mica's comment "I appreciate if emails are publicized that they are in full context" - I didn't do this because I wasn't sure if you wanted that part to become common knowledge yet. So I omitted it as I thought that was the best thing to do. Rest assured that in future, I'll post the entire contents.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 928
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:06 am:   Edit Post

Actually, Roger, proper Net etiquette says that you never post a private email message from another party without their prior consent. Of course, that's only etiquette, people do that sort of thing on a regular basis.

Relative to the proposed change, we're looking for a convenient way for people to know how to address reply messages, right? I would think that including a first name only would be satisfactory to accomplish what is desired. I don't believe that last name is required for this. Of course, we don't currently have a profile field for this and I don't know the feature set of this board software to know if that is possible.

I would say that looking for a first name is one reason that I look at profiles, but it is almost as common for me to look for a location.

As I said earlier, though, all the information is already available to the public by looking at a user's profile. Moving it to another screen, especially since you're not planning on bringing the email address forward, should be no greater privacy/security issue for anyone.

-Bob
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 475
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:14 am:   Edit Post

I'm no programmer (except with the TV remote control), so I know nothing from "spiders". But I am a lawyer and therefore am quite familiar with compromise! So howzabout this: What if the left column showed the ID and first name only. Wouldn't that allow for the more personal touch we appear to almost universally favor, while still addressing Roger's arachnophobia?

Bill, tgo
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 476
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

Bob:

I was composing the above while you were posting your identical "first name" suggestion. Either great or twisted minds think alike! nyuk, nyuk.

Bill, tgo
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 342
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 9:46 am:   Edit Post

I'd be quite happy with just the first name to be shown. Well - mine already is anyway!

To address Bob's comment about netiquette - I don't usually post private e-mails but it was the easiest way I could think of to try and help get my point across. I wasn't doing it to try and get one over on Mica, so my apologies for any confusion / offence etc etc.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1819
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 2:47 pm:   Edit Post

Well, for the last two days I have been quite unexpectedly and unavoidably out of touch. Looks like I missed some excitement! <g>

I don't know the answer to the first-name-only suggestion as I don't have access to that part of the program. However, what information that I have looked at suggests that the Full Name can't be split to separate lines.

When I was reading through the messages, I was disheartened to see that Roger felt he may have to leave the group. Later, however, I was glad to see him post "I'd rather not part company with you nice folks in here, so if the change goes ahead, I'll butcher my profile so that there's next to no info in it".

So, if, as I expect, the first name only suggestion is not doable, then here is my suggestion.

As far as access to profile information is concerned, the only difference between the proposed change and the current situation is that the information the user has entered in the "Full Name" box in the profile will be shown next to posted messages. Thus no one should have to "butcher" their profiles. Rather, if you still want your full name to show in the profile and not next to the message, then just enter your first name, or anything else you wish, in the "Full Name" box; then at the bottom of the "Additional Personal Information" section create a new "Category Title" and call it something like Real Full Name and enter your full name there. That way your full name is still shown in your profile but not next to your messages.

I think Roger's concerns are understandable; and unless I've missed something, I think and hope that this solution addresses those concerns.
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 343
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 4:10 pm:   Edit Post

I'm with Dave here - the voice of reason has spoken! Nice one Dave!
byoung
Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 8:41 pm:   Edit Post

My 2 cents.

First, a bit of background.

I've been developing software for 11 or 12 years (and I'm not counting time on the Apple II). I have written spiders, many of them. I have a background in web development (and other types of development, too!). I just want you to know that I do have some background technically.

Roger, I'd like to re-state your objections (just so we're all "on the same page"); I'd be happy for you to correct this if I've mis-interpreted things.

1) Having your full name accessable to Web Spiders isn't good.
2) Having your email address harvested by address-harvesters is bad.

I'm not going to disagree with you on #2, and there are some additional methods that could be applied that are pretty good at nuking the spam-harvesters' ability to decipher the email while leaving it perfectly usable from a human standpoint. Let me know if you're interested, Mica, and I can point you to some stuff and discuss approaches.

However, issue #2 is not changed *at all* with regards to the "full name" change, and as such, does not seem germane to the discussion. Unless I've missed something, of course (likely!).

Now, with regards to #1, I'd appreciate some clarification. You did refer to spam quite a bit in your postings, might I infer that you're concerned that your full name might invite spam?

Are you concerned about web search engines, or is your caution limited to spam?

Brad
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 344
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 3:15 am:   Edit Post

I'm going to clarify what I've been trying to put across as it seems that I'm not making myself clear.

Incidentally, my background is software development too, I've been doing it for 22 years on various different platforms, with various different languages, for countless and varied applications.

Mica stated that the spiders come along, click on all the links in the website, Club included. My e-mail address is shown in my profile and is plain for all to see - but yet I receive absolutely no spam to that e-mail address. So my argument is that, even though Username, Full Name, e-mail address and a whole raft of other information is available on the profile, it's either not being used by the spiders, or it's simply not being collected. We all know that a published e-mail address is an open invitation for spam and it doesn't take long for it to start arriving either!

Now, whilst Username and Full Name are shown on the profile, I don't see the point of putting Full Name in the thread under the Username. I use the RogerTVR username anonymously in all sorts of places, as I'm sure other people in this Club may do with their own Usernames. I object to having RogerTVR and my full real name shown with it in every posting I make. I realise that this proposed change will not be actioned retrospectively and will only apply to future postings (if it is implemented).

Adding the Full Name in that way also means that if I wanted to remove my Full Name from my profile, it would still show in the postings that I had made to that point. So I lose control over what I want public and what I want kept private.

So - spam is not my concern - I am using it to demonstrate the point that I don't think the information on the profile screen is being used and/or collected. There are no guarantees that that would be the case if the Full Name was shown under the Username in postings, thus making the association between Username and Full Name more easy to determine. Which would make the spiders job easier and I don't see the point of giving them an easier ride.

As I stated above, I'm more than happy with Dave's suggestion for first name to be shown as that would meet the aim of making things more friendly in here (if more friendly is the right phrase to use).

I hope this clarifies my stance!

Rog
kmh364
Senior Member
Username: kmh364

Post Number: 875
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 5:38 am:   Edit Post

I'm OK with it. It'll be nice to know who we're corresponding with without having to look up the profile first. Sign me up.

Cheers,

Kevin
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 555
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 5:38 am:   Edit Post

The underlying problem why we're dicussing this at all, as far as I can see, is that the user names for a lot of members are not the real first name by which they would like to be called. Some of the early members (like myself) had the luxury of finding their first name still available as a user name, but I admit to losing track of the number of Pauls within the first few weeks of the club.

So why not print the user name (must be unique) along with a nick name of your own choice? I can't see any privacy concerns with that - but then I'm only a database developer with precious little experience in web programming.
byoung
Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 10:18 am:   Edit Post

Roger,

Thanks for clarifying things.

If you'll humour me again, I'd like to re-state what I think the crux of your concern is:

Putting the full name will make you less anonymous on web search engines.

Is that correct?

Seemingly, google isn't currently crawling ("clicking") the user profile links, but other search engines are (i.e. msn does, definitely-- do a search for "<full> +site:alembic.com" (quotes mine), and you'll see that this information is already public).

Also, using spam as an indicator that the user profile is being read isn't the best possible test (the best test is, as Mica already stated, looking at the logs (the user-agent string is often configured to look like a regular browser, but the frequency and deliberateness of the links give them away).); most spammers use custom-crafted crawlers that are designed specifically to find e-mail addresses, and don't interface with the search engines (at least to gather addresses). No, that is not a run-on sentence.

But anyhow, this information is already public (i.e. not anonymous), and this will not be substantially different after the change.

However, I can understand your concern (as this will definitely create "more hits" on your name in the search engines, and this may be a concern. I'd suggest that you simply change your "Full Name" field to reflect your first name only (or nothing at all, if you wish!).

Just trying to do my part to allay your concerns; I hope it helps (somewhat, anyways!).

Brad
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 345
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post

Brad,

Yep - basically, the crux of my concern is that putting the name and the username together in posts means that there will be far more instances of it than just the one that exists at present (in the profile screen).

I understand what you're saying about changing the Full Name field to contain something other than my full name, but I consider that to be a backward step.

I'm surprised that the Full Name field isn't split to be perfectly honest - having them lumped together isn't really a good bit of software design. If they were split (this has already been mentioned), then first name could be shown in the threads and the profile could contain the information as it is at present.

I think that is the best solution.

Rog
phys49
New
Username: phys49

Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post

I would like to interject some information that may be of interest. I chose a user name that I do not use anywhere else but the Alembic Club.
Daily I recieve spam at my general email address which starts with Phys49.
The only place it could be coming from is bots or spiders that have accessed my profile on this web site.
I agree with the folks who favor posting first names only, not full names. The annoyance of the spam is minor and I simply delete it.
I am concerned that posting full names may make it easier for someone who is unscrupulous to defraud a member.
Thanks,
Perry
dfung60
Member
Username: dfung60

Post Number: 86
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, May 30, 2005 - 9:29 pm:   Edit Post

Interesting discussion.

I think the spidering concerns are valid, but the change proposed here doesn't affect spidering or spam. As long as your username is a clickable link that goes to your profile and your profile contains a real e-mail address, then you're at risk of being harvested. I happened to look at the phys49's posting as an example, and that's an interesting one. If he only uses phys49 as his handle on this board, then it's definitely being harvested if he's getting spam addressed to phys49. Interestingly, that spider is dumb since the e-mail address in his profile *doesn't* start with phys49.

My ISP allows me to set a first level SpamAssassin filter, so if I was harvested here, I don't really know about it consciously. I suspect that may be the case for others here as well.

If I read the first post correctly, the proposed change is really more along the lines of giving people an opportunity to respond and refer to others by their real name vs. handle. I don't personally have a problem with that change, and don't think that it will have much spamish effect.

In a perfect world (and this *is* the Alembic board after all!), I think we'd really want to make a slightly deeper change to make everyone happy. In addition to allowing you to enter your name and e-mail address in your profile, you should probably be given a check box to let you choose whether either of those items would be visible elsewhere in the system. This would allow everybody to enter their real name but control whether or not it appeared on the left side info. Likewise for e-mail, although I doubt that you'd actually want to attach an e-mail address to individual postings. I think a flag on your e-mail field would be better used to control whether your e-mail was displayed or not in your profile (this allows the administrators to have a reference to all users, but each person can make a decision about whether that info is public or private.

Finally, since I'm on a roll, as a final anti-harvesting measure, you might want to create an image or otherwise obsfucate the e-mail address so it's less accessible to a spider.

Since the webboard software in use here is proprietary, these sorts of changes are not something we can do, but it would probably be a good input to their suggestion box.

David Fung
bob
Senior Member
Username: bob

Post Number: 447
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 1:31 am:   Edit Post

David - you can already choose to not display your email address. Can't swear that will fully hide it, but think so. You don't currently have that option for full name, but of course you don't have to use your full name, as we've discussed.

Brad - Google does in fact seem to have some of us there. Type in ["Bob Novy" alembic] without the square brackets and you'll find my profile right at the top. (Of course, you had to know my whole name to get there - just using Bob seems more likely to turn up some guy named Dylan...)

Sorry, Roger, but you're already busted... not straight to your profile, and not even to a direct quote - but you are in the two threads it happens to turn up today.

Whether you consider your personal decision to change the entry in your full name field to be a 'backward step' isn't much of an argument - given your concerns, I would (gently) suggest it was more of an oversight or risky gamble in the first place, along with choosing to display your email address.

I suppose it might help to have a definitive statement about whether the proposed change would update what appears in the left column for all existing posts, or only future ones. Based on my limited understanding, I'm skeptical that it would change existing posts, but I may be wrong. Unless I missed it, we have not seen a clear statement on this yet.

If the answer is that the change would not affect existing posts, and that any future rebuild would only display your most recent profile info, then I think it's time to update your profile and move on.
-Bob
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 346
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 3:57 am:   Edit Post

As far as I can see, you have to enter a valid e-mail address in your profile. Besides, changing the e-mail address means it e-mails you a verification key and suspends your profile until you enter the key. If someone wants to tell me how to get round this, I'll ditch the sensitive information that I don't want on there and "move on". Although I still feel that doing this is a backward step...

After I change everything, I'm not bothered what the decision is on this proposed change. I'm beginning to wish I'd never opened my mouth regarding this lot!
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1836
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 5:29 am:   Edit Post

Roger; personally, I'm glad you "opened your mouth", as the issues being discussed are worth consideration.
oggydoggy
Intermediate Member
Username: oggydoggy

Post Number: 125
Registered: 3-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 6:15 am:   Edit Post

Yea

-Ed
bob
Senior Member
Username: bob

Post Number: 448
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post

Yes, you are required to enter a valid email to register - but you do not have to let anyone else see it.

- Click on rogertvr to view your profile.
- In the top right, click Edit Profile.
- Fill in your username and password, click Login.
- Scroll down to Preferences, check the box that says 'Do not display my real e-mail address with my profile'.
- Click Save Profile Changes.

In the table above that section, you can choose to hide most anything else, and I also confirmed that you can put whatever you like in the Full Name fielld (I was Bob Nobody for a few minutes, but it just wasn't me).
musashi
New
Username: musashi

Post Number: 10
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
musashi
Junior
Username: musashi

Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post

The moderator wrote: "Then at one point, in response to an isolated issue that was unknown to most of the members, that format was changed so that only the username was shown beside the message. Well that particular issue appears to no longer be a problem, and we are considering a return to the original format of having both the user name and full name shown beside the message."

What was the original issue, and what has changed in the interim?
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 348
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post

Thanks for your help, Bob. I must admit that I hadn't spotted the option on the profile screen to hide e-mail address.

Thus, my profile is suitably butchered. I can always put it back if the decision is made not to implement the proposed change. Proof of Concept of hiding various details has now been proven for anyone else who is interested.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1840
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 2:25 pm:   Edit Post

Musashi;

All I know about the matter is just enough to be able to say that it was a personal situation for one of our members. I do not know the member's identity, not do I know any details. Given the personal nature of the situation, I have no desire to inquire any further; in fact, I think we as a group should respect this person's privacy and pursue this line of inquiry no further. I do not think that the details of that situation would add anything useful that hasn't already been covered in our discussion here.

(Message edited by davehouck on May 31, 2005)
rogertvr
Advanced Member
Username: rogertvr

Post Number: 349
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 2:36 pm:   Edit Post

I completely agree with Dave here. The member's privacy was respected then and there is absolutely no requirement to abuse that respect now.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 1841
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 3:17 pm:   Edit Post

The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" position is a reasonable and understandable position to take. However, it can be difficult to determine using that criteria when a given action should or should not be taken. For instance, it wasn't broke and didn't need fixing when we added the FAQ & Must Reads section; most of the information added to those new sections could already be found by clicking on Search. And it wasn't broke and didn't need fixing when we divided the For Sale section into three separate sections; we could have left them lumped together. And there are several other things that are not broke and don't need fixing that Mica is spending late night hours working on to make this forum better for our members. It seems to me that adding the three sections in the For Sale section is a nice improvement since it makes it easier to focus on just the items that are for sale without having to wade through all the Ebay sightings (it used to be difficult to keep up with that one particular S1 For Sale thread when that davehouck guy would be posting all those Nice Essence On Ebay messages); but it wasn't necessary. And the FAQs and Must Reads seem a nice improvement as well since it's a lot easier to find Joey's setup procedure; but again not necessary. And the fact that many members are quite often looking up profiles just to get someone's first name, especially the members that read and post daily and are thus doing it several times a session every day when they should be working or at least practicing scales, suggests that getting first names beside the messages would be an improvement too. So when your mindset is to continually try to improve a product or service that you are providing to people that you care about, it can be difficult to employ the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" criteria in the decision making process. Again, I do see where such an approach can be reasonably seen as an appropriate decision making tool. But personally, such an approach doesn't seem flexible enough to be of much use to me when I'm assisting Mica with efforts to make this board a more helpful and enjoyable place for our members. But that's probably just a reflection of my own limitations and where I currently happen to be on the learning curve. So, please accept my apologies for being unable to apply the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach. But I will try to apply the "if a desired improvement isn't workable, then it isn't workable" approach <g>.
Thanks.
musikill
Member
Username: musikill

Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 1:05 am:   Edit Post

I too am in the web dev business and have been for nearly 10 years. I am also an expert in ID theft. I understand peoples concerns here but frankly, there is little here to worry about. You should be much more concerned with one of your friends mentioning something about your bass collection, innocently at a party or to a group of people in a club where you happen to be playing - all it takes is for one of those people act on that info and you could have problem. This forum is not the rich hunting ground some may think - I have no problem with showing my name next to my post. Limit the names to first name only; if someone is phishing they still have to take the extra step of opening the profile. And as Mica said, you have the option of leaving many of the profile fields blank.

The issue mentioned about harvesting the site for email addresses is valid but again, this is not the type of forum that say a 'male enhancement' vendor is going to target - it's too far off the track when compared to the rich mining done at a site like match.com. There is a method to the madness when it comes to the sort of mining people are concerned about in this thread. Also you should understand that most legitimate businesses are not spidering for the purpose of unethical email address harvesting - but I repeat "most". In general the spiders are looking for meta data related to search requests so they can display quicker, more effective results. This is what MSN (I think I saw that site mentioned) is more than likely doing.
I would be interested in knowing where (in a general sense) someone is located as I find it interesting to see where this 'club' has members located internationally - sometimes it could help with understanding the point of a post if you can put it into context with regards to culture. (obviously with posts about subjects other than "what kind of strings...")

I am as paranoid as anyone when it comes to personal information and privacy but the real threats to your ID and privacy are working much richer ponds than this forum. I feel there is no threat here compared most other ways in which you are vulnerable.

I say make the change and be done with it. There is nothing in the personal data on this site that can't be easily had through hundreds of other sources both on and off line. Believe me, in less time than it took to write this post I could find out much more about most people than they would feel comfortable with - and using tools widely available. Too much personal info is available free - from your friendly local, state, and federal gov't(s)- sad but true.
Sorry to sound so doomsday - we're safe here - be happy!
Greg
Los Angeles
keith_h
Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 84
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 6:32 am:   Edit Post

Well said Greg even though I don't subscribe to security through obscurity. To take it a little further I participated in the IETF for a number of years. The minutes and attendees for the working groups get published complete with e-mail addresses. This did/does result in SPAM, even to the folks that design the Internet, but unfortunately it is a cost of doing business. However I don't think most of the SPAMmers and phishers even make an effort to look up addresses. It is much easier to just generate a list of names/id's for a domain and mass send to it. They don't really care if the id's all have people on the other end as the idea is to get a few to respond.

Likewise I think you are more likely to give away personal information by visiting a hostile website than by having a spider locate it.

In any event to reiterate my previous vote, I see no problem with adding the names to the screen. It would make things easier and does not divulge information not already available on the site.

Keith
somatic
Junior
Username: somatic

Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, June 04, 2005 - 8:18 pm:   Edit Post

Not keen on the idea myself. I only have my first name listed now, and do that due to a really unpleasant online incident a while ago that became a lot more realworld than I would like. It also involved the law and a major PITA for me due to the unstable personality of the other party involved. So I prefer to control what personal info of mine becomes public and what doesn't.

Generally, I'm happy to participate here and make myself know to people on an individual basis, but I don't use my full name anywhere online and having it under my username would be a serious disincentive to participate further.

Spam is also a 'bit' of a concern, but the email addy's I use on sites like this are disposable; once I start getting hit, I delete them and make up another.
byoung
Member
Username: byoung

Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, June 05, 2005 - 9:44 am:   Edit Post

Brett,

As I understand it, each post would have whatever you entered in the Full Name field-- i.e. in your case it would contain "Brett", no last name.

That is the thing that makes this whole thing manageable, as far as I'm concerned-- you can enter as much (or as little) information as you'd like/are comfortable with, and that is all that will ever show up.

Don't want your email exposed? Fine! Mark it as non-public, and it won't show up. Don't want anything more than your first name showing? Easy-- just put your first name only in the Full Name field.

Et cetera, et cetera-- As far as I know, you aren't required to publicly reveal anything about yourself to be a member here; the proposed change alters that not at all.

Brad
gare
Advanced Member
Username: gare

Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 6:17 am:   Edit Post

Either way is fine with me..it may blow my cover tho !
I'd trust the Alembicans to protect me.

Gary<--real name
the_mule
Senior Member
Username: the_mule

Post Number: 488
Registered: 1-2004
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post

No problemo amigos!

Wilfred
howierd
New
Username: howierd

Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2004
Posted on Monday, June 06, 2005 - 5:32 pm:   Edit Post

I don't see a problem showing full names. If the baddies want you they can always find some way to spam you no matter what.
Howierd
elwoodblue
Junior
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 5:50 pm:   Edit Post

It's nice to see musicians communicating...there must be a correlation, between the desire to play music and to communicate well(just an observation).
I like the first name idea ,
peace
kris

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | Help/Instructions | Program Credits Administration