| Author | Message | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2014 |
I read comments from Alembic owners - even Stanley Clark - that Alembic basses expose bad left-hand technique...that fingering has to be perfectly fretted or there will be noise and or bad tonal notes. Why is this? Are they harder to play? I am the proud new owner of one that is being constructed...I can hardly wait for its arrival! (Message edited by Wick5 on October 17, 2014) | ||
| rjmsteel
Advanced Member Username: rjmsteel Post Number: 234 Registered: 7-2008 |
Alembic Basses ask you to play more accurately - not because they are harder to play, but since they are built to precision specifications. You can set-up the bass ANY way you like. The build quality and electronics reveal any (flaws) in our plucking/fretting of the strings/notes. Congratulations on your under way build. May we ask what (bass)setup you have on order? Anyone else like to chime in.. I hope I`m fair in my analogy of wick5(s) question. | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2014 |
Thanks for your response, rjmsteel. Your comments sound logical. I was not aware that I could request a particular set-up. Regarding that, do most of y'all tend to set the action a little lower on 5-strings? I find that I sometimes "dig" a little more when playing a 4-string. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5848 Registered: 7-2004 |
While it's true that Alembics render bad technique more obvious, the trade-off is that they reward good technique with a full piano-like tone that you just can't get from the usual passive pickup system. Everything you play is accurately reproduced and can be heard, both good and bad. Bill, tgo | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 378 Registered: 6-2012 |
Alembic electronics are incredibly sensitive - almost like a sonic microscope - everything is magnified. This is a blessing and a curse. A blessing because Alembics reveal subtle nuances in a player's style that would be lost on a lesser instrument. This allows the player (and listener) to accurately hear what is and what is not being played. As such, the platform for musical expression is expanded and the player is inspired to try things that wouldn't matter in another context. A curse because the player may have to do a little woodshedding to clean up some undesirable aspects of their technique that may have developed from playing less revealing instruments that hide those flaws. In my case, I celebrated being able to hear EVERYTHING - both good and bad. I was happy to be able to finally hear several good aspects of my technique that were formerly hidden (hey, that's cool - I never knew I was able to do THAT!) and hearing the bad aspects inspired me to work harder to be worthy to play these fine instruments. The best part is Alembics are just so d*mn much fun to play that the woodshedding is more pleasure than chore - so you actually want to practice! Congrats on your build - I guarantee you will not be sorry. Let us know what's in the works! I have 5, soon to be 6 (a guitar is on the way!) and have not regretted any of them. | ||
| rjmsteel
Advanced Member Username: rjmsteel Post Number: 235 Registered: 7-2008 |
My 6`er Elan` (1989 Bass) action is set ridiculously low without ANY buzzing, including the Low B. Also keep in mind another beauty about these basses is that YOU can adjust the instrument any way YOU like. In regards to the question about digging in; have you asked Mica about a specific string spacing for your build? Also if I remember correctly, she will ask you how you want the action during set-up in the factory, or just bring it up. Key Note: Just look up all the posts Joey has on Setup here on the forum. | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 591 Registered: 9-2009 |
I think Richard did a nice job describing the Alembic family of instruments. I'd agree with him that in no way are Alembic basses harder to play. Actually, it's just the opposite. The necks of these basses are incredible allowing one to move around the fretboard with ease. In addition, as Richard suggests, you can set the bass up in a manner that exactly suits your style and type of play whether you're a gentle plucker or someone who plays with extreme gusto. The electronics on these babies, however, provide for extremely clean output. Thus, imperfections in technique that you might not hear with muddy, distorted output are quite obvious. I think most of us who have played Alembics for a while would admit that we needed to make some modifications in our technique in order to get the best out of our basses whether that involved changes in hand position, fretting technique, or in my case with my initial Alembic re-learning how to most effectively mute strings. Prior to playing Alembic most of my basses were Gibsons and I played mostly with flats. Sustain was something I was always trying to maximize given the characteristics of the bass and strings I used. When I first played my Distillate, I was amazed at how long each note lasted given the thru neck nature of the instrument and needed to slightly modify my technique to take this in to account. And as Richard suggested....please provide us with some details regarding your build. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4263 Registered: 6-2002 |
Because of the clarity of the pickups, electronics and the way the basses are set up they reproduce almost perfectly whatever is happening on the strings. So artefacts of your playing get reproduced with the same clarity as the notes you play. If you have the filters on your bass you can filter out some of the finger noises to clean up your sound but if you want to have the filters open for your preferred tone, you need a clean technique. I've had to change aspects of my technique when I got an alembic for that very reason and it's an ongoing process teaching my fingers how to play the notes I want and stop the sounds I don't want at the same time. They tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2014 |
I really enjoy the conversation here, guys. I'm expecting a MK Balance K Deluxe 5-string with extra options dressed in Coco Bolo. I'm told it should arrive sometime in November. Mica said she would post pics in the FTC forum, but it is now in the finish stages so all pics would tend to look the same...Pics will come later, I hope. I do have an emailed pic I'd love to show...maybe someone tech-savy will show me how to send that. I have a Tobias (early serial number pre-Gibson) 5-string that is an easy play with its thin neck. I hope the Alembic is as easy. Also, I own 6 Fender 4-strings (too many) that I play most often. Now...the Alembic! | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 73 Registered: 6-2014 |
@ wick5 - Congrats on your soon-to-be. My 25 year old Alembic (5-string) is hands-down the easiest-playing bass I have ever owned. Not an easy or casual endorsement to make, since I have been fortunate enough to have some pretty nice non-Alembic basses along the way. It is very smooth, fast, and incredibly accurate, and for a mediocre-at-best player like myself, it totally brings out the very best in my playing, simply by rewarding my ears for the work my head sends to my hands. That said, it is not forgiving of bad technique... but it's much more of a positive reinforcement thing for me. I expect your perspective will never be the same after you try it... enjoy. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 796 Registered: 9-2004 |
I have owned several and never had any extra problems playing them. Now a Yamaha TRB-JP, try one of those for a couple hours! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2253 Registered: 9-2002 |
Wick, the pickups/electronics are deadly accurate. If you'd be familiar with the sound of professional studio monitors vs. very, very good home stereo speakers, I think that would infer the right mindset. And the tone is just different: There are a whole lot of great handbuilt basses out there, 95% of which use the same Bart / EMG / Nordstrand / Aguilar pickup/tone network components, so they can all sound very similar, despite being very different build-wise. I'd dare say to a man (or woman), all of us who came into an Alembic suddenly found out our technique in spots left a little something to be desired. And we've all become better players because of these instruments. But of course, it's not all down to the bass, which alone makes no real sound or tone by itself. Then you find part two of the Alembic experience in that, hey, why does my favorite amp suddenly sound different . . . . An electric bass + the amp is 'your instrument'. Either one without the other, it's a non-starter. And of course a crummy amp will dumb everything down, as always. But an Alembic through a great setup is just like nothing else. Set-up wise, you can have it any way you like, from very high to ridiculously low. They are very easy (to my mind, the easiest) to set up: Adjustable nut, double truss rods, and a one-piece / radius matched bridge. Once you learn the routine, it's ridiculously easy: No neck screws, no height adjustments on each bridge saddle, no plastic/bone nut to have to replace or file lower, we get to skip all that. Plus with the laminated necks and 1/4" ebony board, they are typically very stable and hold a set when done properly. I always say these things aren't for everybody. Guys will play Jazz basses thru SVT's till Hell Freezes Over. But . . . . if you 'get' what these instruments are about, there is simply nothing, and I mean nothing else like them, or the family that builds and supports them. It's like owning a Bosendorfer, a Selmer Paris horn, or an original D'Angelico: It's simply the best. It's not often in this life one can own a legend, but you're about to. J o e y | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2014 |
Now, that is a post that warms the heart! You helped it all make sense. Thanks, Joey. PS - The feelings I had getting my first Fender '62 Vintage Reissue Jazz or the zebrawood neck-thru Tobias can't compete with my anticipation for my Alembic. PSS - My Eden gear should sound pleased. | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1298 Registered: 6-2006 |
To answer your question about Alembic's exposing bad left hand technique . . . I don't think so. My Distillate and I have a long relationship together and she just feels like 'home' when we are together. Maybe just maybe when I first got her there were issues, but as others have mentioned, a lusting passion for being connected to a finely crafted instrument with tonal mana makes breaking bad habits a breeze. enjoy! :-D | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2014 |
I might have misspoke that it's the left-hand technique that players such as S. Clark spoke about revealing too much. They could have meant the plucking hand that easily exposed any inherent flaws. Anyway, I look forward to enhancing my techniques. The spirit and art of the thing shall renew my enthusiasm for the instrument we have chosen to make life richer and deeper. Maybe I should copy that sentiment I just expressed...that was deep, indeed. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2723 Registered: 3-2004 |
The thing with Alembic pickups and electronics is the incredible clarity and presence in the upper frequency range. This is what exposes weak fretting hand technique. If you would consider playing steel roundwounds, you better be precise. You can hear your fingers moving along the strings very clearly if you make a position change poorly, and weak fretting stands out. As far as plucking hand technique is concerned, the basses are amazingly responsive to variations in technique. If you can't pluck evenly, it will show. If you move your plucking position closer to the bridge or up over the neck, you will hear the tone vary as you move to an extent that would require you to spin knobs on lesser basses. You should be able to hear the tone vary and adjust your position to get what you want. One other thing on Alembic basses is the solid construction, often with dense woods and a fairly thick ebony board, doesn't absorb as much string energy as most basses with bolt-on necks and/or rosewood boards. Ebony seems to absorb less of the spectrum, allowing the full range of the string to sustain and ring out more. As far as "bad tonal notes" are concerned, there are some bass tones where you can get away with playing the wrong note as long as the duration is relatively short and the timing is good. You can still dial in that tone by closing the filters on your bass and cutting out the upper mids and highs. On the other hand, you can set the controls so that the note clarity is there, and then your incorrect notes will be much more obvious in the mix. Joey makes excellent points, but I also find that the strings you choose make a very significant impact on the tone you can produce. If you want a roundwound sound and find your fretting technique to be lacking, try some Chromes. They will still have the brightness and some of the growl with much less potential for noise during position adjustments. No one hearing an Alembic with Chromes thinks they're listening to flatwound strings. The next step up would be a coated roundwound, then nickel and finally steel if that's the tone you ultimately seek. Personally, I find coated DRs or Sunbeams on an Alembic played through an F-1X and quality power amp into a Bergantino CN212 cabinet to be about the ultimate in clear and versatile bass tone. Lately, I am taking a shortcut on the amplification, and that seems to be the most forgiving piece of equipment in the chain. Don't worry about showing up flaws, that's how you improve. If you need to hide them for a performance, you can dial out some upper mids and highs for more forgiveness, but pull them back in when you're wood-shedding so you can hear every shortcoming. -bob | ||
| wick5
New Username: wick5 Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2014 |
Thanks to all for these most excellent posts. I feel like I'm in great company here! I've never felt or considered that I have flaws when fretting or plucking my basses. However, sometimes when plucking semi-aggressively the D string for example, the rebound of my finger will strike the A string and I can hear a click. It's thoughts such as these that lead me to take interest in Alembics "showing all." I'm looking forward to this bass I'm getting making me a better player. Bob, Chromes will be strongly considered after I try the factory set. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2725 Registered: 3-2004 |
Search around, Steve. You'll find a few threads about the impact of various strings om your tone. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2254 Registered: 9-2002 |
Once you've been 'Alembic'd', a few random thoughts: --Going in music stores gets REALLY boring. 'What the hell am I looking at basses for', they all just seem so . . . . lacking. --You will try LOTS of different strings, because now you can really, really hear the difference. You'll even tell when you get a crummy set of the strings you always use. This seems weird for quite a while . . . . --Stanley Clarke gets every bass offered or given to him, but always keeps his Alembics around. Now you'll know why. --You'll feel guilty buying cheap cables. You'll hear them. This seems weird as well . . . --You'll get to read Jimmy Johnson's posts and learn to say 'HAH', evidently some expression employed by the mightily gifted . . . then you find yourself tracking down Holdsworth and James Taylor CD's and being dumbstruck by the guy's taste, tone, and technique. One of our favorites and one monster player, who ONLY plays Alembics. How many guys have a Series Two five-string for a 'practice guitar'? ? ? ? --You will learn that Susan, Mary, and Mica make the World Go Round, and that Ron invented a lot of it. --Endure cracks about 'coffee table' or 'boutique' basses from clowns that appear to have used their crusty, rusty Precision as a fence post or ash tray. You'll find he also works the Bass Desk at your local Guitar Center . . . --At gigs, you will get the occasional glaze-eyed, excited bass guy who KNOWS what you're playing and is thrilled as he's 'never seen one in person'. Trust me, this is a good thing. Let him play it a little if he's well-behaved and relatively sober and not wearing a lot of metal bits . . . . --Get blank looks when your friend who bought a (fill-in-this-blank with Ken Smith, Sadowsky, Fodera, MTD, etc.) sees what YOU bought, and finds out as well that it was custom built just for you. Of course, you do your best to be civilized and say, 'Wow, that's nice . . . . ' Try not to look smug. --It rides in the car, never in the trunk. You'll never again EVEN think about throwing your bass in its case on top of the subs in the band van. --You'll be nervous about leaving it on the stand between sets, even though you REALLY dig glancing up at the stage and admiring it. --It will dawn on you: I may sell a few or all of those 6 Fenders, maybe the Tobias, but I'm NEVER getting rid of this thing ! ALL of this has happened to me. This never happened with Yamahas or Peaveys . . . . J o e y | ||
| wick5
Junior Username: wick5 Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2014 |
Well said, HAH! | ||
| malthumb
Senior Member Username: malthumb Post Number: 568 Registered: 5-2002 |
I often tell other bassists that my Alembics "tell on me". If I am the slightest bit rusty or lazy in muting techniques, the piano tone + the sick sustain can combine to leave the sonic equivalent of jet-stream. There have been gigs where I've left the Alembics home and taken more forgiving basses. Not the Alembic's fault for sure. Just a matter of me being in line with my limitations of the moment, | ||
| tmimichael
Member Username: tmimichael Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2010 |
And I second what Joey said...I had Mica order a custom flight case for my Series II...luckily it has wheels because it is SO heavy, but I'm not taking ANY chances with my baby!!! And Alembics don't sound like anything else because every "link in the chain" has been scrutinized and only the BEST will do...which is why Ron, Susan, Mica and the crew manufacture most everything themselves. If nothing available meets the standard, you make it yourself. And like someone else said, I too am just a fair, in the pocket player, and I will never have the technique to realize the depth of this instrument. But whatever notes I DO play...wow. | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 1027 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wick .. I've owned a Europa, an Epic, a Dragon's Wing, a limited edition Spyder, etc. I currently own a Stanley Clarke Signature Standard, an Essence, and a Series II Custom. Based on this, I will say .... All Alembics will expose less than stellar technique. They are transparent in the sense that they reward good technique, and punish inproper technique. In other words, they ampify bad habits. This being said, In my opiniion and experience ... Those who refine their technique are richly rewarded, whether they play an Alembic or not. Spend a few months playing an Alembic, and your technique will improve simply because you hear everything, cleanly, good and bad. Congrats on becoming an Alembic player. You won't be sorry. Alan | ||
| parody
New Username: parody Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2014 |
Bigredbass, I love your comments. And to wick5, I waited close to 30 years before finally allowing myself to spend this kind of money for a bass I wasn't sure I actually deserved. It was worth the wait. I'd always looked to these basses as otherworldy and....they are. They are not for the faint of heart however, you will not want to put this down. You will fall asleep (pass out) with this before you realize you should put it away so you can regain your senses and get back into the real world. Not much else will matter. Chris | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1305 Registered: 6-2006 |
Steve, here is a little more food for thought. . . . I was jamming at a friends house (he's one of those drums, guitar, bass and keyboard kinda guys), he plays anything, but bass was his first instrument. So he asks that question; "can I play your Alembic?" 'Sure, let me play your guitar.' We start jamming and he has this expression on his face that is priceless; we kick through a couple songs and he says; "Paul! This bass is incredible!" I say; "Yeah, it kinda drives itself hey?" The point is, while he was playing it, there were no issues. . . Me on the guitar is another story. . . . Moral of the story, your technique may transfer seamlessly to your Alembic and you won't have a thing to worry about (except finding your favorite tone setting) | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1364 Registered: 2-2011 |
Wick, the first gig I played with my Stanley Clarke Signature Deluxe my drummer commented that the new bass must have inspired me because I was playing all these new parts that he had never heard me play before. I told him that while it did inspire me, I was playing the same exact parts I had always played, he could just never hear them before! The pure tone of an Alembic cuts through the mix like nothing else. It will absolutely make you a better player for two reasons, you will hear every mistake & learn to correct them, & you will never want to put the bass down so you will practice much more! I was never one to practice my bass, I only played it enough to learn the songs then never touched it unless I was playing a gig, but now I play almost every day! I've had my Alembic for 3 1/2 years & I'm still awestruck every time I play it! It NEVER get's old! I also have an Eden WT 800 with Eden D115 XLT & D410 XST cabinets, & my Alembic sounds amazing through it! You will NOT be disappointed in your investment in Alembic. I say investment because when you get an Alembic it is so much more than just buying a bass or guitar, it is an investment in a musical institution that has changed the world of music & set the standard by which all other builders are inspired & judged by. Your investment will continue to grow & give back to you not only from years of enjoying your new bass, but also from joining the Alembic family & having your life so richly blessed & enhanced from the knowledge of all the members of The Alembic Club here. You will find the friendliest most knowledgeable people on the planet for all things Alembic & music in general. They are always willing to answer any questions & help you get the most out of your investment. Where else can you pose a question & have a legend like Jimmy Johnson answer it?!! You are indeed in good company here! Welcome! | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 1224 Registered: 11-2004 |
I guess I am a simple guy when it comes to describing tone and technique. Mine are not sophisticated descriptions as in the above posts. For me, what I heard when I first played my Alembic (and later, on my second Alembic) was a very clear tone that was unwilling to hide my sloppy technique. My other basses tended to work with my sloppy playing by masking the crap that was trying to come through.. It took no time at all for me to get rid of the little things that didn't sound good. It is just a matter of an Alembic's ability to bring out the true tone, not that it is harder to play. Just my simple observation, but after ten years here I have never been happier with an instrument. Rich | ||
| germansal
Member Username: germansal Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2004 |
I think that you ll got to make the switch in your playing,i remember 21 years ago when i get my series 1,for me was very hard because i used to play an old Vantage with EMG pickups ,and never forgot the word that said to me the guy who sold me the bass.Once you play this bass ,you will never want to play to play another bass,and this is absolutely truth,because the sound,the playability and the way that this basses response is unique,Peace and have fun | ||
| germansal
Member Username: germansal Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2004 |
By the way you can check out my profile to take a look to my 79 s series1 Bass | ||
| sonofa_lembic
Junior Username: sonofa_lembic Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2014 |
Alembics certainly do not hide right of left hand fumbling around noise, but I have found the right choice of amplification can have a significant affect in keeping the clanking to a minimum. I have tried a variety of amps, combos cabinets etc. but always use an Alembic preamp with solid state power. I recently used a Markbass rig, and it made me sound like I was hammering nails in-between notes. My Alembic rig never does that. There are a lot of high mid oriented amps out there that exaggerate the exact frequencies your hand noise is in. With the Alembic preamp, it is biased toward a much more crystalline high range and solid lows, creating a virtual high-mid dip. Even with the clear unvarnished exposure of your technique, I would never trade the Alembic tone for anything else. It is the only bass that can always cut through any venue, and be heard clearly in the mix. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2299 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'll say what I always think vis-à-vis all these 10" cabinets: Andy can get away with it as the Acmes are so well-designed in a three-way bin, but otherwise, I like horns on cars, trains, ships, even Angus beef on the hoof, but generally I think throwing one in a (fill in the blank here of the usual suspects, SWR, Eden, Trace, you name it) is a bad idea. A cheap and harsh way to get highs (and lots of squeaks, squonks, and other sonic gibberish) that skips a smooth mid crossover to those highs. Put me a 6" speaker or something similar (note Bag End's Hi-Drive is a co-axial driver) and we'll talk. I understand the technical end of why I need a bass rig that goes plum to 20k, but the fact is, I don't WANT one. I've heard lots of guys with these rigs who have a remarkable woody, mid-y tone, but there's no guts and it doesn't anchor a band. No thanks. Joey | ||
| charles_holmes
Advanced Member Username: charles_holmes Post Number: 376 Registered: 3-2009 |
I purchased two Markbass little 800's for ease of carrying my gear but, after 3 or 4 gigs using them I went back to using my 2 F-1X's and QSC PLX 1804. For me, the Markbass kind of compressed the sound too much,muddied the Alembic tones and the one I used for the bottom end was always clipping. The F-1X's presents clarity, crispness and an openness in tones/sound that for me are unrivaled. The clarity,crispness and openness that Alembic preamps and basses offer, demands that accuracy and technique are paramount. Like Joey, I will use 2 Bag End D10BX-D's. But the bottom line is even with great equipment if you haven't worked on fingerings, scales, modes over and over again placement of both hands (don't forget posture and breathing)...your stuff is gonna sound like mush! Happy New Year Everybody!!! With Brotherly Love...Chalie Holmes |
