| Author | Message | ||
| fiveny
Junior Username: fiveny Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2005 |
Is anyone else experiencing strange noises and interference from Smart Phones. When a phone is on and close to me up to 4 feet, I get some wonky stuff coming out of my amp. At first I thought I had a bad tube, then I noticed our drummer checking his phone. Apple or Droid, makes no difference. Is there anything we can do, other than turning phone off? I am playing a Europa. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 1865 Registered: 5-2002 |
I get that when my phone is in my pocket right behind my bass (Series II electronics). Putting it on my amp usually solves the problem. I do get directional noise quite a bit, but it's only horrible in a couple of venues. | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Intermediate Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 116 Registered: 6-2014 |
Yep, me too, but in my Persuader. Sometimes even leaving it on top of my amp causes the same interference. It's a bizarre sound - buuuuzzzzz-crrraaaackle-sssstatic.... pop-pop-pop-pop-pop. Leave my phone in my bass case, problem solved. I never have tested the theory, but I bet putting your phone in "airplane mode" during the set would stop the interference. (Message edited by edwardofhuncote on November 28, 2014) | ||
| gregduboc
Senior Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2008 |
I know little about the technical stuff, and I might be wrong, but I believe this is caused when the phone is receiving/transmitting any sort of signal, giving an interference noise on the electronics of the bass or amp. Airplane mode solves it. Or kipping it away. I never have my phone on me or any where near me or my equipment during a gig or a session. I always leave it on a gig bag, stored somewhere. Fun thing to do: if you leave your phone on top of your amp, it will make those noises about a second before the phone receives a call. You can pick up our phone to answer a call or message before it actually gets there.. hehe Greg | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1345 Registered: 6-2006 |
We have two rotary dial phones at our house and no cell/ smart phones . . . No interference issues here! 8-D | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4313 Registered: 6-2002 |
On a gig I just turn my phone off. Is there a reason you would have it on if you were on a live gig? | ||
| ed_too
Junior Username: ed_too Post Number: 36 Registered: 3-2011 |
Gregory - I've never had the problem with my Brown Bass - but that might just be serendipity. I've had that problem while playing music at work (I run a cable from my iPhone to the Aux input of an old Advent receiver). Haven't had the problem doing this while on airplane mode - which lends support to your theory. Ed | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 376 Registered: 6-2004 |
If I have my iphone on during a rehearsal i can always tell when anyone within 15 feet of me or so is getting a text message. Only when i am using the Alembic though - not with my other basses. I definitely keep it off during gigs or sessions! | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 377 Registered: 6-2004 |
That didn't quite make sense. I meant me or someone else. Of course it doesnt help to have my phone off if theirs is on. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1429 Registered: 1-2005 |
I would think that a smart phone is sending and receiving all kinds of signals under normal operation, even stuff we aren't aware of (though I don't want to get too paranoid...) Once when I saw Stanley Clarke there was some cell-phone interference during the quietest part of his solo upright section. I asked the soundman afterwards and he said Stanley had his cell phone in his pocket during the show. Holger Czukay of Can moved from bass to electronics in the later years of the band and would incorporate all kinds of short wave radio and other electronic sounds and broadcasts into their performances - maybe that's one way to go? ;) | ||
| fiveny
Junior Username: fiveny Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2005 |
Thanks for all your replies. Airplane mode is an option, but it is not just me, everyone in band and the audience has a cell phone. I was wondering if maybe a mod to the electronics is being looked at by Alembic? Is there a way to shield the electronics? Maybe Mica can chime in on this? | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4319 Registered: 6-2002 |
It's sure an interesting challenge because a lot of things pick up on that phone signal as well as guitars and basses. It happens on analogue car and home radios though I've not had the effect on digital radios. older series basses may have to get the electronics upgrade to deal with electronic noise though the recent ones should be ok. I can't say I've noticed it on my series bass and I have the phone on my person when practicing at home. It's probably a problem regardless of bass manufacturer so it would be interesting to hear if alembic are addressing or have advice. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4320 Registered: 6-2002 |
On a gig I just turn my phone off. Is there a reason you would have it on if you were on a live gig? | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 394 Registered: 6-2012 |
"Hang up and play - @*#$&@#$&*!!!!!" IMO, there are more important things in life than being in constant contact with everyone all the time. Put things in perspective and give yourself a break from the mania by focusing on your passion. You owe it to yourself to give 110% effort to it, especially if you own an Alembic. The fine folks who crafted your musical work of art gave at least 110% effort to ensure that it is just exactly perfect, so you should honor it by doing the same when you play it. End of rant and no offense intended - just had to vent a little. | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1350 Registered: 6-2006 |
David, As a non-portable phone owner, and a motorcycle rider I view cell/ smart phones as the devil incarnate . . . Ride a motorcycle once and be surprised at what is happening all around you! I digress, although I do embrace the hang up and play motto. I believe the OP is inferring that even if his phone is off that other people's phones are also creating sonic akimbo. We should revert back to homing pigeons and smoke signals. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3771 Registered: 5-2009 |
Paul , there is true wisdom in what you wrote . I do own a cell phone ( off when playing music) but there is CLEARLY too much RF interference in our present scenario . SMART METERS in addition have pushed metropolitan areas far into what many consider too highly saturated and within the limits of physical harm . The dangers of RF pollution are still in their infancy as to what the actual harm to humanity will occur long term . It took a long time for the realization of the dangers of tobacco use to be completely acknowledged by the medical world . That has clearly changed now . | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 395 Registered: 6-2012 |
Unfortunately, this is a touchy subject for me. I've been in countless projects over the last few years where the progress of the project and the personal interaction between the members have both been compromised by one (or more) of the members constantly fooling around with their phone during rehearsals, and sometimes even during gigs (grrrrr...). IMO the personal and emotional interaction between all band members is critical to the successful performance of ensemble music - especially if improvisation is involved. Anything that disrupts this delicate interaction will compromise the performance of each individual member and the group as a whole. And yes, I've also experienced the electronic interference generated by these devices that initiated this thread - not only is it annoying, but it adds insult to the injuries described above and is a symptom of a larger issue! I've tried to be fair and understand both sides (emergency family situations, etc.) and I also acknowledge the benefits of being able to pull tab or a recording of a piece off the web in seconds to end what could be a potentially lengthy debate over what is actually being played. But, unfortunately, my experience has been that the instances where the device is being abused (your definition of this may vary) have far outweighed the instances where it has been used to benefit the group. Furthermore, I've attended performances by other musicians, most notably a recent Steely Dan performance in Phoenix, where I was appalled to look around me and see a large portion of the audience more focused on their phones (and obtaining their refreshments) than the show that they paid very handsomely to attend. When did our perception of what is important and/or real shift from what is actually occurring in right front of us to what is being transmitted to us through a palm-sized electronic device - ? Practice moderation in all things and don't be completely seduced by the lure of the electronic temptress (unless it has an Alembic logo on it!). One last thing - I have two smart phones, one for work and one for personal use and they both know their place in the food chain = near the bottom. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 5905 Registered: 7-2004 |
We are becoming The Borg. Bill, tgo | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 3774 Registered: 5-2009 |
" You will be assimilated , resistance is futile " . | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 423 Registered: 11-2011 |
I'm still a hold out.  trying to get through life not having a "Smart Phone". Somehow that probably will be impossible because my old "Emergency Phone" will eventually die. And only Borg phones will be left. Old Basses, old phones and becoming an old guy. But Loving the Ride!! Pete | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 8335 Registered: 6-2000 |
After talking to my dad, it seems that the alerting system is the culprit - the sound or vibration. The requirement in the phones for these alerts is that they be small, so that means don't waste space on shielding. They are also usually not efficient since they are not one for very long at one time. It hasn't been our experience that a phone outside the reach of the player interferes with the instrument signal. Make sure you aren't wearing your own phone of course, like others have said, step away from the phone! If you are within 4 feet of your audience, that's awfully close. | ||
| adriaan
Moderator Username: adriaan Post Number: 3175 Registered: 6-2002 |
My old "stupid phone" interfered as badly as its successor does (a hand-me-down from my 14yo son). | ||
| fiveny
Junior Username: fiveny Post Number: 23 Registered: 2-2005 |
Mica, Thanks for the explanation. I do not wear my phone, but I have found that phones in a 4 to 5 foot distance from my instrument will interfere. My bandmates have been careful not to use their phone near me, once I explained. Audience distance is usually not an issue, but we do play small clubs for the most part, not big stages. I am playing a 1990 Europa, have there been any mods to the electronics or cavity since then? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 8337 Registered: 6-2000 |
There is an RF upgrade available for Europas, but it's really for high frequency/directional noise. Email me if you would like to make arrangements to send the electronics in for servicing. It would be interesting to do the upgrade and see if it changed the interference you are experiencing. | ||
| fiveny
Junior Username: fiveny Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 |
mica, I sent you a private email from mike.tucc@gmail | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 600 Registered: 5-2002 |
The buzz/clicking noise you're hearing from your smartphone is a byproduct of the digital protocol your phone uses to connect to the wireless network. If you have a GSM phone (that's AT&T or T-Mobile in the US), you'll hear the sound occasionally as the phone tries to check in. If you're in a strong signal coverage area, it will be quick and lower level; if you're in a marginal error, it can go on for a while and get relatively loud as the phone increases it's transmit power to find a cell tower. If you have a Verizon phone, it uses a different connection method and you probably won't hear any noises like this. Because of the way passive electronics work, they filter out a lot of the ultrasonic EMI from the world around you, but an active system like in your Alembic can be more receptive to RF frequencies - unfiltered, you can probably drive the preamp into overload with very high frequency signals that you have no ability to hear (this is probably what that high-frequency mod is fixing). The GSM noise is different - there's a set of rules the phone uses to access the cell network that involve sending bursts of digital information. The unfortunate timing of some of the signaling bursts happens to be in the audio range. There's almost no way to filter this out, but if you move the phone a couple of feet away, you won't hear it anymore. Unless you set your phone on your amp! Same problem there! I serve on the Parks & Rec Commission in my hometown and our meetings are televised and livecast. The guys that do the production are pretty sure that the GSM thing is an evil plot to make it impossible to have a public meeting without constant electronic outbursts. David Fung | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Intermediate Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 131 Registered: 6-2014 |
I occasionally have to attend teleconferences to obtain continuing education credits for my job. The *exact* same thing happens in the room... if anybody in there has an active cellphone, the transmissions and reception is intermittently garbled. Thing is, almost every one of us do have to carry them for our job, and cannot cut them off, regardless of what the sign on the door clearly states. Just knowing this beforehand is what made me think of it when my Alembic made some very unhappy sounds at a gig. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4340 Registered: 6-2002 |
I had my iPhone on when I was at sound check yesterday and my phone was on and When it rang there was no interference picked up by my bass at all. I have been told before that if you have bad reception the phone sends a stronger signal to find the closest cell, so maybe that's the time the interference shows up on a bass. |
