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fiveny
Junior
Username: fiveny

Post Number: 21
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post

Is anyone else experiencing strange noises and interference from Smart Phones. When a phone is on and close to me up to 4 feet, I get some wonky stuff coming out of my amp. At first I thought I had a bad tube, then I noticed our drummer checking his phone. Apple or Droid, makes no difference.
Is there anything we can do, other than turning phone off? I am playing a Europa.
edwin
Senior Member
Username: edwin

Post Number: 1865
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 11:14 am:   Edit Post

I get that when my phone is in my pocket right behind my bass (Series II electronics). Putting it on my amp usually solves the problem. I do get directional noise quite a bit, but it's only horrible in a couple of venues.
edwardofhuncote
Intermediate Member
Username: edwardofhuncote

Post Number: 116
Registered: 6-2014
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post

Yep, me too, but in my Persuader. Sometimes even leaving it on top of my amp causes the same interference. It's a bizarre sound - buuuuzzzzz-crrraaaackle-sssstatic.... pop-pop-pop-pop-pop.

Leave my phone in my bass case, problem solved. I never have tested the theory, but I bet putting your phone in "airplane mode" during the set would stop the interference.

(Message edited by edwardofhuncote on November 28, 2014)
gregduboc
Senior Member
Username: gregduboc

Post Number: 545
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 2:20 pm:   Edit Post

I know little about the technical stuff, and I might be wrong, but I believe this is caused when the phone is receiving/transmitting any sort of signal, giving an interference noise on the electronics of the bass or amp. Airplane mode solves it. Or kipping it away. I never have my phone on me or any where near me or my equipment during a gig or a session. I always leave it on a gig bag, stored somewhere.
Fun thing to do: if you leave your phone on top of your amp, it will make those noises about a second before the phone receives a call. You can pick up our phone to answer a call or message before it actually gets there.. hehe

Greg
pauldo
Senior Member
Username: pauldo

Post Number: 1345
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Friday, November 28, 2014 - 3:19 pm:   Edit Post

We have two rotary dial phones at our house and no cell/ smart phones . . . No interference issues here!

8-D
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 4313
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2014 - 3:18 am:   Edit Post

On a gig I just turn my phone off.
Is there a reason you would have it on if you were on a live gig?
ed_too
Junior
Username: ed_too

Post Number: 36
Registered: 3-2011
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2014 - 4:32 am:   Edit Post

Gregory - I've never had the problem with my Brown Bass - but that might just be serendipity. I've had that problem while playing music at work (I run a cable from my iPhone to the Aux input of an old Advent receiver). Haven't had the problem doing this while on airplane mode - which lends support to your theory.
Ed
hankster
Advanced Member
Username: hankster

Post Number: 376
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2014 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post

If I have my iphone on during a rehearsal i can always tell when anyone within 15 feet of me or so is getting a text message. Only when i am using the Alembic though - not with my other basses. I definitely keep it off during gigs or sessions!
hankster
Advanced Member
Username: hankster

Post Number: 377
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2014 - 11:42 am:   Edit Post

That didn't quite make sense. I meant me or someone else. Of course it doesnt help to have my phone off if theirs is on.
hieronymous
Senior Member
Username: hieronymous

Post Number: 1429
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2014 - 3:51 pm:   Edit Post

I would think that a smart phone is sending and receiving all kinds of signals under normal operation, even stuff we aren't aware of (though I don't want to get too paranoid...)

Once when I saw Stanley Clarke there was some cell-phone interference during the quietest part of his solo upright section. I asked the soundman afterwards and he said Stanley had his cell phone in his pocket during the show.

Holger Czukay of Can moved from bass to electronics in the later years of the band and would incorporate all kinds of short wave radio and other electronic sounds and broadcasts into their performances - maybe that's one way to go? ;)
fiveny
Junior
Username: fiveny

Post Number: 22
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 8:01 am:   Edit Post

Thanks for all your replies. Airplane mode is an option, but it is not just me, everyone in band and the audience has a cell phone.

I was wondering if maybe a mod to the electronics is being looked at by Alembic? Is there a way to shield the electronics?

Maybe Mica can chime in on this?
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 4319
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post

It's sure an interesting challenge because a lot of things pick up on that phone signal as well as guitars and basses. It happens on analogue car and home radios though I've not had the effect on digital radios. older series basses may have to get the electronics upgrade to deal with electronic noise though the recent ones should be ok. I can't say I've noticed it on my series bass and I have the phone on my person when
practicing at home. It's probably a problem regardless of bass
manufacturer so it would be interesting to hear if alembic are addressing or have advice.
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 4320
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post

On a gig I just turn my phone off.
Is there a reason you would have it on if you were on a live gig?
5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member
Username: 5a_quilt_top

Post Number: 394
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post

"Hang up and play - @*#$&@#$&*!!!!!"

IMO, there are more important things in life than being in constant contact with everyone all the time. Put things in perspective and give yourself a break from the mania by focusing on your passion. You owe it to yourself to give 110% effort to it, especially if you own an Alembic.

The fine folks who crafted your musical work of art gave at least 110% effort to ensure that it is just exactly perfect, so you should honor it by doing the same when you play it.

End of rant and no offense intended - just had to vent a little.
pauldo
Senior Member
Username: pauldo

Post Number: 1350
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 4:20 pm:   Edit Post

David,
As a non-portable phone owner, and a motorcycle rider I view cell/ smart phones as the devil incarnate . . . Ride a motorcycle once and be surprised at what is happening all around you!

I digress, although I do embrace the hang up and play motto.
I believe the OP is inferring that even if his phone is off that other people's phones are also creating sonic akimbo.

We should revert back to homing pigeons and smoke signals.
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3771
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Tuesday, December 02, 2014 - 4:55 pm:   Edit Post

Paul , there is true wisdom in what you wrote . I do own a cell phone ( off when playing music) but there is CLEARLY too much RF interference in our present scenario . SMART METERS in addition have pushed metropolitan areas far into what many consider too highly saturated and within the limits of physical harm .

The dangers of RF pollution are still in their infancy as to what the actual harm to humanity will occur long term .

It took a long time for the realization of the dangers of tobacco use to be completely acknowledged by the medical world .

That has clearly changed now .
5a_quilt_top
Advanced Member
Username: 5a_quilt_top

Post Number: 395
Registered: 6-2012
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post

Unfortunately, this is a touchy subject for me.

I've been in countless projects over the last few years where the progress of the project and the personal interaction between the members have both been compromised by one (or more) of the members constantly fooling around with their phone during rehearsals, and sometimes even during gigs (grrrrr...).

IMO the personal and emotional interaction between all band members is critical to the successful performance of ensemble music - especially if improvisation is involved. Anything that disrupts this delicate interaction will compromise the performance of each individual member and the group as a whole.

And yes, I've also experienced the electronic interference generated by these devices that initiated this thread - not only is it annoying, but it adds insult to the injuries described above and is a symptom of a larger issue!

I've tried to be fair and understand both sides (emergency family situations, etc.) and I also acknowledge the benefits of being able to pull tab or a recording of a piece off the web in seconds to end what could be a potentially lengthy debate over what is actually being played.

But, unfortunately, my experience has been that the instances where the device is being abused (your definition of this may vary) have far outweighed the instances where it has been used to benefit the group.

Furthermore, I've attended performances by other musicians, most notably a recent Steely Dan performance in Phoenix, where I was appalled to look around me and see a large portion of the audience more focused on their phones (and obtaining their refreshments) than the show that they paid very handsomely to attend.

When did our perception of what is important and/or real shift from what is actually occurring in right front of us to what is being transmitted to us through a palm-sized electronic device - ?

Practice moderation in all things and don't be completely seduced by the lure of the electronic temptress (unless it has an Alembic logo on it!).

One last thing - I have two smart phones, one for work and one for personal use and they both know their place in the food chain = near the bottom.
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 5905
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 2:19 pm:   Edit Post

We are becoming The Borg.

Bill, tgo
sonicus
Senior Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 3774
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 2:50 pm:   Edit Post

" You will be assimilated , resistance is futile " .
flpete1uw
Senior Member
Username: flpete1uw

Post Number: 423
Registered: 11-2011
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 3:10 pm:   Edit Post

I'm still a hold out. :-) trying to get through life not having a "Smart Phone". Somehow that probably will be impossible because my old "Emergency Phone" will eventually die. And only Borg phones will be left.
Old Basses, old phones and becoming an old guy.
But Loving the Ride!!
Pete
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 8335
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 3:53 pm:   Edit Post

After talking to my dad, it seems that the alerting system is the culprit - the sound or vibration. The requirement in the phones for these alerts is that they be small, so that means don't waste space on shielding. They are also usually not efficient since they are not one for very long at one time.

It hasn't been our experience that a phone outside the reach of the player interferes with the instrument signal. Make sure you aren't wearing your own phone of course, like others have said, step away from the phone!

If you are within 4 feet of your audience, that's awfully close.
adriaan
Moderator
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 3175
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2014 - 4:06 pm:   Edit Post

My old "stupid phone" interfered as badly as its successor does (a hand-me-down from my 14yo son).
fiveny
Junior
Username: fiveny

Post Number: 23
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 9:10 am:   Edit Post

Mica,

Thanks for the explanation.

I do not wear my phone, but I have found that phones in a 4 to 5 foot distance from my instrument will interfere.
My bandmates have been careful not to use their phone near me, once I explained. Audience distance is usually not an issue, but we do play small clubs for the most part, not big stages.
I am playing a 1990 Europa, have there been any mods to the electronics or cavity since then?
mica
Moderator
Username: mica

Post Number: 8337
Registered: 6-2000
Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2014 - 6:54 pm:   Edit Post

There is an RF upgrade available for Europas, but it's really for high frequency/directional noise. Email me if you would like to make arrangements to send the electronics in for servicing. It would be interesting to do the upgrade and see if it changed the interference you are experiencing.
fiveny
Junior
Username: fiveny

Post Number: 24
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 06, 2014 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post

mica,
I sent you a private email from mike.tucc@gmail
dfung60
Senior Member
Username: dfung60

Post Number: 600
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 5:37 am:   Edit Post

The buzz/clicking noise you're hearing from your smartphone is a byproduct of the digital protocol your phone uses to connect to the wireless network.

If you have a GSM phone (that's AT&T or T-Mobile in the US), you'll hear the sound occasionally as the phone tries to check in. If you're in a strong signal coverage area, it will be quick and lower level; if you're in a marginal error, it can go on for a while and get relatively loud as the phone increases it's transmit power to find a cell tower.

If you have a Verizon phone, it uses a different connection method and you probably won't hear any noises like this.

Because of the way passive electronics work, they filter out a lot of the ultrasonic EMI from the world around you, but an active system like in your Alembic can be more receptive to RF frequencies - unfiltered, you can probably drive the preamp into overload with very high frequency signals that you have no ability to hear (this is probably what that high-frequency mod is fixing).

The GSM noise is different - there's a set of rules the phone uses to access the cell network that involve sending bursts of digital information. The unfortunate timing of some of the signaling bursts happens to be in the audio range. There's almost no way to filter this out, but if you move the phone a couple of feet away, you won't hear it anymore. Unless you set your phone on your amp! Same problem there!

I serve on the Parks & Rec Commission in my hometown and our meetings are televised and livecast. The guys that do the production are pretty sure that the GSM thing is an evil plot to make it impossible to have a public meeting without constant electronic outbursts.

David Fung
edwardofhuncote
Intermediate Member
Username: edwardofhuncote

Post Number: 131
Registered: 6-2014
Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 6:28 am:   Edit Post

I occasionally have to attend teleconferences to obtain continuing education credits for my job. The *exact* same thing happens in the room... if anybody in there has an active cellphone, the transmissions and reception is intermittently garbled. Thing is, almost every one of us do have to carry them for our job, and cannot cut them off, regardless of what the sign on the door clearly states. Just knowing this beforehand is what made me think of it when my Alembic made some very unhappy sounds at a gig.
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 4340
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2014 - 9:30 am:   Edit Post

I had my iPhone on when I was at sound check yesterday and my phone was on and When it rang there was no interference picked up by my bass at all.
I have been told before that if you have bad reception the phone sends a stronger signal to find the closest cell, so maybe that's the time the interference shows up on a bass.

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