| Author | Message | ||
| bassjigga
New Username: bassjigga Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 |
What tonal difference have you guys found between the set neck Alembics and the neck throughs? I know they tend to have different electronics packages too, but I'm trying to get a sense for the neck as the only variable here. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 578 Registered: 7-2004 |
If I have my info correct, you should expect more sustain from a neck through. Also, the tone of the instrument is more dependant on the neck lams on a neck through, with the body "wings" having less effect on the tone. On a set neck instrument the body woods have more effect on the tone. Bill, tgo | ||
| jerico
New Username: jerico Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2005 |
Can anyone compare the sounds of, say, a Tribute and a Further? Are they largely similar, or how do they differ? Justin | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 944 Registered: 9-2003 |
For a discussion on construction methods, try this from the "FAQ's and Must Reads" section: http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/16387.html?1107733746 IMHO, while you lose a little sustain going from a neck-through to a set neck, you gain midrange punch, especially if you use "bright" woods such as ash and maple. Ck out the "East Meets West" Special Of The Month from '03 or my "Ke(vin)'s Custom Orion" from the "Factory To Customer" thread for illustrative purposes (see below). http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_emw.html http://alembic.com/club/messages/631/8557.html?1093301442 Cheers, Kevin (Message edited by kmh364 on August 12, 2005) | ||
| jerico
New Username: jerico Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2005 |
Hey Kevin - thanks for those links. Great stuff! Justin | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 950 Registered: 9-2003 |
No problem, Justin. Glad I could help. Personally, I wanted that Fender Jazz Bass-esque midrange punch that the set-neck offered. I loved that EMW special, which attempted to do just that, so I copied it and dressed it up a little. I've played the Tribute, but not the Further. Other than acoutrements and the different shape, I doubt that there's much difference sound-wise and/or playability-wise due to the thru-body neck construction and the identical electronics. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 586 Registered: 7-2004 |
The Tribute is a set-neck, the Further is a neck-through. Bill, tgo | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 951 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wow, you learn something new every day! I even played the damn Tribute and just assumed it was a neck-thru. It has a front and back lam, so I just assumed that a thru-body neck was hiding under there. My bad! | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 636 Registered: 11-2003 |
The only Alembic neck-thru's I've played are my basses, the only Alembic set neck I've played is my Skylark..... So it's hard for me to really compare, but the Skylark is very bright (which is more than I can say for it's owner) with its maple top. The sustain is also extremely good on it. Now, that being said, I will tell you that between my Persuader (neck-thru 4 string w/maple only)and the Spoiler (neck-thru 5 string w/purpleheart lams) there's an obvious gain in sustain on the Spoiler. When the Rogue/Epic custom 5 string gets here I'll tell you if there's any change with maple/walnut pinstripes..... which is how the set neck of my Skylark is built(although the Rogue/Epic custom is neck-thru)... Also, as with everything, there are lots of other variables to consider in the mix... Hmmmmm.... I guess I'll go wait for the UPS truck now... (Message edited by hollis on August 12, 2005) | ||
| lowlife
Intermediate Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 177 Registered: 12-2003 |
Having owned two neck-throughs (Spoiler, MK) and two set-necks (Excel, Epic) I must agree with Kevin (khm364) in that the major differences are the sustain vs the mid-range punch. Personally, I prefer the mid-range punch. Ellery | ||
| jerico
New Username: jerico Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2005 |
I've played a Tribute but never a Further. I'm having a Further made now, so just curious as to what to expect. I'd be surprised if there's a ton a difference tone-wise, but I suspect it'll be brighter than the Tribute (sustain issues aside). Now I'm curious about how the Skylark and the Tribute differ tonally...! See what I've started here?! Justin | ||
| hollis
Senior Member Username: hollis Post Number: 637 Registered: 11-2003 |
Justin That's a good question. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 447 Registered: 9-2002 |
After my years of playing and owning bolts- and neck-thrus, my general observation would be as mentioned above: I find that the neck-thrus carry more of the fundamental to the pickups, the bolt necks tend to be more of a low mid-range punch. Plenty bass to work with, but it just lacks that very last step (the fundamental and maybe the first harmonic). Of course the wrong amp would lose this anyway. Sustain-wise, it's really a wash for me. Either one on a loud stage will carry as long as you want. Dead strings will choke sustain a LOT faster than the relative merits of neck attachment. And, too, it's a difficult apples/apples comparison as virtually all bolt-neck instruments are Fender-headed: The peghead is parallel to the fingerboard with no down angle, I'm sure string trees don't load the nut the same as a bent peghead. In these days of basses having three-band EQ on board and amps having so much tone-shaping, I'm not sure how much of this matters in a ProTools/Bass Pod world. . . geez I feel like an analog dinosaur, I remember all the amps the Pod models! I prefer neck-thrus for other reasons as well: I like the strings' loading pulling the length of the instrument as the neck, instead of just neck having to fight the pull on it's own. I don't like bolt necks as I do my own setups. It's a real pain to do bolt-necks if you have to pull the neck, remove the pickguard, etc., especially old-Fender style truss rods, where you've got that X-headed adjuster flush with the end of the neck and NO relief cut out of the body. At least MMan uses that wheel now. And it just seems prehistoric that the neck bolts are wood screws (no inserts/machine bolts) and I've got to use duct tape/light picks/whatever to shim the neck if I want more down-angle. And I really hate zooming up the neck and sliding into that damn neck block. I love to turn my basses over and see the ski jump at the body joint! J o e y (Message edited by bigredbass on August 13, 2005) | ||
| jerico
Junior Username: jerico Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2005 |
Interesting stuff, Joey. Thanks. And good point about "the wrong amp." I'm on the slow-road to finding a new one of those too, but I'll have to wait for the guitar to show up first. Justin | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 972 Registered: 9-2003 |
Justin, The amp is just as critical to great sound, if not more so. There are plenty of threads on here about guitar amps, so you'll have plenty to read, digest, and ponder while you wait, LOL! Here's one to get you started...it's er, um, on my own latest acquisition: http://alembic.com/club/messages/449/16159.html?1116011940 Enjoy, Kevin | ||
| jerico
Junior Username: jerico Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2005 |
Yet another interesting thread. That S*CKS about the Gibson debacle - there seem to be quite a number of people out there of late having a rough time with that company. I have a LP standard from a few years back and I never touch the thing anymore. I don't even like it, but I can't make up my mind to sell it or not. Your custom-made amp is beautiful though. Thankfully my Further probably won't be here until the holidays, so that gives me plenty of time to figure out how to pay for another amp...! Justin | ||
| bassjigga
New Username: bassjigga Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 |
Thanks for all of the input. Joey, not sure if you've been gone a while or what, but there are plenty of companies making bolt-on necks with angled heads and easy truss rod access. Otherwise, great info. Thanks guys. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 976 Registered: 9-2003 |
Justin, Thanks for the compliment. That Straub amp sounds even better than it looks, and it looks great! For hot blues, classic rock, or even shred/speed metal, it is the sh*t! It also plays clean like no other Marshall-style amp I've ever heard. If you like that amp, my Jerry-ized amp is overdue and presumably not yet finished, but it will be a goodie when it finally arrives. It's a "Customized" silverface Fender Twin Reverb (as perferred by Jerry for a pre-amp feed to his Macintosh amps) in a custom Sappelle (Mahogany)/flame Maple cabinet w/custom grille cloth by Sultone with new Weber VST JBL-D120 "clone" speakers (Jerry's fave, but the originals have been sadly discontinued for many years) instead of the OEM Pyle-made Fender MI speakers. I'm putting a vintage reissue Fender blackface faceplate on it to put the finishing touch on the amp aesthetics. I'll post pix of that bad boy when it finally comes. Yeah, I got a great deal on the Custom Shop Gibson LP, but it is flawed and Gibson's Customer Service is horrible. They don't know what quality is, regardless of price, and don't stand behind their product. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 459 Registered: 9-2002 |
Jigga Of course I overlooked lots of Ibanez, ESP, Schecter, but I guess I see SO many Fenders and Fender clones I just zoned out for a minute . . . I worked at Gibson for eighteen months when I first moved to Nashville (in the plant, on the line), and I'd NEVER buy ANYTHING that they make, even if Custom Shop guitars were a dime apiece. Gibson is made up of terrific people in the plant mis-managed by some of the most inept and venal souls the Good Lord ever put breath into. (Here, he pauses and catches himself and waits to calm down . . .) Henry J has taken Oberheim, Tobias, TraceElliot, Steinberger, et al, and transformed thriving brands into footnotes in Vintage Guitar articles. He treats his greatest craftmen (ie, the Custom Shop staff) and harangues and threatens and fires and rehires . . . It's a wonder one of the color choices isn't Maalox White or Pepto Pink or Thorazine Turqoise. I know most of you can't wait to go buy a new Tobias made by Baldwin in Arkansas! His whole idea is 'geez, if these nitwits will pay $20G for an old one, I could get 25 for a perfect reissue!' Amazingly, Tokai, Edwards, Navigator, et al, can do the same thing for 2 or 3G, and you'll NEVER have to send it back. I personally think Gibson should be the lawsuit guitars, NOT the copies. I can scarcely (as you can see) contain my contempt for Gibson the company, nor help but worry about the friends I made there, who still hang on because the work still matters to them personally. J o e y | ||
| jerico
Junior Username: jerico Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2005 |
Kevin - I play about 99% of the time clean or with just a touch of grit. I don't care for heavy distortion at all. Actually, I spend most of my time playing acoustic guitar, so when I move over to an electric I don't like to change things around too much...! That said, I'll be on the lookout for a nice amp with that can do nice warm cleans and mild tubey overdrive. A lot of folks seem to dig Mesas around here, and I'm curious to hear a Lonestar but my favorite store nearby won't be carrying them for a few more months. I did play a pretty nice Fender tube amp the other weekend, but I didn't catch the model (I was trying out an envelope filter pedal and wasn't really paying much attention to amps). Right now I play through a simple Marshall AVT combo with a Midiverb, nothing fancy but I quite like its clean sound for now. We'll see what the Further sounds like through it. Joey - whoa, sounds pretty bad over there at Gibson. I keep looking back to several years ago when I bought my Les Paul, thinking at the time that it was the culmination of guitar aspirations since I was 14. Now, I think that guitar is really very unremarkable (and it doesn't even sound very good unless it's in the middle position). My other electric is a one of those "deluxe plus" Strats from the early 90's - it's certainly nothing fancy but I could throw it out the window and it would stay in tune, it has some nice sounds (it has those weird Lace Sensor pickups) and cost a 1/3 of a run of the mill LP. So, now I'm anxiously awaiting my Alembic so I can have nice sounds, great looks, awesome craftsmanship, and nothing to complain about...! Justin | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 983 Registered: 9-2003 |
Justin: I was the opposite...I had my clean tone(s) via Fender Twin, but I needed something dirty for blues & classic rock. I got more than I bargained for. Even though the amp is your standard Marshall "plexi" clone, it has a hi-gain mode that'll make a death metal band blush but it also plays clean and with plenty of headrom and tube soulfulness. I've never heard a "plexi" called versatile, but this clone is! The mods I'm doing to my Twin are to turn a decent clean amp into a killer clean amp. It won't look too bad either, LOL! Joey: I know what you're saying, Bro! I want a high-end acoustic and a Jazz box, but I am totally put off by Gibson's high pricing/low quality. I like the sound and playability of Gibson's CS Montana acoustics (J-200 and Hummingbird custom versions, specifically), as well as the Gibson CS Nashville carved-top jazzers (custom L-5, Super 400/4000's especially), but not at those prices and not with the total lack of quality they're regularly foisting upon the (afluent) public at large. The acoustic is up in the air, but I'll probably buy a Heritage Golden Eagle 17" jazz box (an L-5 by another name from the old Gibson Kalamazoo factory). The quality is decent, it's made in America, and the price is much more reasonable. Too bad Alembic doean't make acoustic instruments, LOL! (Message edited by kmh364 on August 15, 2005) | ||
| tom_z
Intermediate Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 166 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well, to further hijack this thread - Kevin, if you're looking for a great sounding acoustic with exceptional playability, check out Santa Cruz guitars. If you're looking at a j200 hummingbird, I assume you're interested in a dreadnought, so you might try the Santa Cruz pre-war D model, or for a bit more $$$ look at the Tony Rice model. I recently spent a weekend playing a pre-war D with Indian rosewood back and sides, and a spruce top and it was one of the most responsive and richest sounding dreadnoughts I've ever played. Santa Cruz guitars are all hand-built in Santa Cruz California by a small group of luthiers, very much like Alembic. Give them a try. Tom | ||
| jerico
Junior Username: jerico Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2005 |
Tom's right, Santa Cruz acoustics are nice. And they're reasonably priced (relatively speaking) if you're comparing them to a Gibson. Justin | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 984 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, guys. I vassilate between prioritizing the purchase(s) of different instruments, depending on my mood. While I'd love a high-end acoustic, right now I'm more interested in a jazz box. Of course, that is subject to change, LOL! I try not to look too hard at the Alembic Club "FTC" thread for fear of another dreaded attack of Alembicitis will overcome me again against my wallet's wishes, LOL! As far as acoustics go, I am a self-admitted PITA about tone....I'm about as anal as it gets. I will sacrifice playability in order to get the "right" tonality. I've played lot's of high-end guitars, including Martin, Tacoma,Taylor, Gibson, but I only liked the tone of the two Gibsons mentioned above. I don't know if I tried Santa Cruz, but it is certainly worth a look/listen/play. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 462 Registered: 9-2002 |
KMH I know it's a size smaller than the 17" boxes, but I'm amazed at how reasonable you can find George Benson Ibanez models. Like a big LP, but really done right, and lots of Ibanez dealers seem to be stuck after they order one, so they're usually ready to talk turkey PDQ. The best overlooked big L5-ish copy are the somewhat rare Yamaha AE1500 guitars. Japanes production, spruce/maple, as big a jump over the usual L5 as the SA2200s are over an ES335. I see nice ones changing hands for less than a grand, a steal. Maybe install some of the Benedetto humbuckers and watch out! J o e y | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 985 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, Joey. I'm sure there are lots of good alternatives, both foreign and domestic. For $10k-$15k for an L-5, that buys you a lot of alternatives, LOL! Actually, I'd like to get a Steven Hayes archtop, LOL! He's my guitar instructor and a master luthier. Unfortunately, there's only about a dozen of his guitars in existence, and he's working on some jazzboxes for more than 30yrs! The chances of talking him into building one are slim to none. He is incredibly anal, so I know the thing would be killer, but it's just a pipe dream. I also like Arthur Napolitano's work and he's in Joisey. It's custom order only, long lead-time and high priced...but there's something about having my family name on the Headstock, LOL!(Don't let my Irish-Catholic name fool you, my Mom is 100% Italian, LOL!). Unfortunately, I may be a Napolitano from Joisey, but I'm not related to Arturo, LOL! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 991 Registered: 9-2003 |
OK, I bit the bullet. My guitar instructor is also a dealer for Heritage. He wants a little too much for the Golden Eagle jazzer he's got, so he pointed me towards a former student who bought one and never plays it. It's a 2-1/2yr old Golden Eagle in natural (blonde) with a solid carved spruce top and flamed maple back and rims. He paid extra for a wood upgrade, so the sides and back are phenomenally figured. Because the original hardshell case was cracked at shipping, he got a case upgrade as well. The thing is mint with almost no playing and I saved considerably over what a new one costs. I made a mutually agreeable deal with him and I meet him on this coming Tuesday to pick it up. The only thing I'm gonna do, and I would have had to do this on any Golden Eagle, new or used, is to replace the pick up. The stock P/U is crapola IMHO, so I'm gonna have Lindy Fralin custom-wind a floating jazz single-coil pick-up for me. My guitar guy will order a blank figured maple pickguard from Heritage and then install the thing for me. I'll have the optional pickguard-mounted tone control circuit added to the OEM volume control and I'll top it off with real hardwood knobs from Roger over at THG. It should be a real nice piece when I'm done, and the money I saved over buying an overpriced Gibson could buy me a second car, LOL! I wonder if Alembic could Phil Lesh-isize this hollow body a la the Godfather? LOL! Come on, Ron, make us a Jazz box! (Message edited by kmh364 on August 18, 2005) | ||
| tom_z
Intermediate Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 169 Registered: 7-2004 |
Nice score Kevin. I've played a few Heritage guitars, not the big-body jazz boxes, but the 535 series - they were very nice semi-hollow guitars. If you're shopping around for electronics check out Harmonic Design http://www.harmonicdesign.net/ - there has been a lot of buzz about their z-90 P/U, but they'll build anything you need. But, if you're doing a serious mod, consider dropping in some Alembic electronics. I have an old Guild Jetstar solid-body that I may alembicize one of these days. Tom | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 994 Registered: 9-2003 |
Tom: I would certainly consider Alembic for electronics, but this guitar is a single floating pickup design (neck position only). That is to say that this guitar harkens back to the early days when they were just f-holed acoustic guitars that had a pickup mounted to the end of the fingerboard or suspended from the pickguard (like my Heritage). There are no holes in the carved spruce top excepting the f-holes. Unfortunately, Alembic only makes pickups (nee' activators) that are body mounted. If they had something I could use, I'd ask Ron to whip me up one for sure. Hear that guys? Mica, Susan, Val, Ron, et al: how about an active electronics system replete with filter(s) for pickguard-mounted floating pickup designs configured for hollow-body arch-top jazzboxes (i.e., L-5's and clones)? The Guitar (in natural finish) is here: http://www.heritageguitar.com/products/Finishes/ANTN.htm The Specs. are here: http://www.heritageguitar.com/models/GoldenEagle.htm The Lindy-Fralin p/u I'm looking at is here: http://www.fralinpickups.com/jazzblues.asp Cheers, Kevin | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 596 Registered: 7-2004 |
I just picked up a cool archtop too. The Hofner Verythin J.Stowell Vintage in antique violin finish. One floating pickup attached to the bottom of the neck. Ebony pick guard, trapeze and tuning peg handles. Very pretty guitar. (The picture is from the net, not my actual guitar. I wouldn't want anyone to think that's my couch and wall). Bill, tgo  | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 996 Registered: 9-2003 |
Cool, Bill! Lot's O' luck with it. I like the couch disclaimer, LOL! | ||
| jacko
Advanced Member Username: jacko Post Number: 284 Registered: 10-2002 |
Good purchase bill. My family have a Hofner President deep bodied semi acoustic - looks alot like Gibsons L-5 in a deep tobacco sunburst with Bigsby tremeloe. Identical headstock inlay to yours. Unfortunately my brother took it to New Zealand to have it restored so I guess I'll never see it again;-( Graeme | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1000 Registered: 9-2003 |
Jazz boxes are cool. You can approximate a half-way decent jazz tone on most solid body guitars by playing on the neck p/u with the tone rolled off, but nothing gives you that sweet woody sound and bass definition like a real jumbo archtop hollow body with heavy guage strings. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1001 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wow, Just realized that was my 1000th post! Boy, do I like to Bullsh*t or what! LOL! I think I've just joined an Elite Club with our friend Paul Lindemans from BeNeLux (palembic, from Belgium actually) as the most prolific poster, if memory serves me. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 598 Registered: 7-2004 |
Kevin: Don't get too excited. Paul, tobo, and Dave, our esteemed moderator, are both over 2000! Keep typing away. LOL Bill, tgo | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 9-2003 |
Understood, but I'm in the ballpark there with the same order of magnitude, LOL! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1021 Registered: 9-2003 |
Got the Jazz box, and it is very nice! Nice low action, stable neck, and super clean acoustic tone. This thing actually has a better open-chord acoustic tone than a lot of the flat-top jumbo and dreadnought acoustic guitars (with a standard round soundhole and pin-style bridge) I've played lately. It must be the select spruce tap-tuned top and the solid carved figured maple sides and back. Once I get my new custom Lindy-Fralin floater put on there, along with my new THG knobs, it'll really be stylin' for sure, LOL! Now all I gotta do is learn how to play the damn thing, LOL! |
