| Author | Message | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 539 Registered: 11-2011 |
All this talk of Alembic preamps got to looking into them and it looks like there is an F2B in my future! An older blue model with the red caps. Any way I currently run my Alembic Distillate or Series 1 through an SF2 directly to a Walkabout Scout. And its amazing. I'm wondering what would best way to incorporate the F2B into the chain? I've been reading as much as I can on this board as well as past posts and it seams like the best answer would be a dedicated amp (Mesa Subway 800?). Or using the return on the Walkabout. So would the F2B to the SF2 to the Walkabout be the same as to what I'm doing now? Also I know the SF2 has a level jumper in it. Could this be helpful with gain control? I'm probably overthinking this (Like usual)but I value everyone's input here. Pete | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1561 Registered: 1-2005 |
Congrats on the incoming F-2B! I've been considering using my SF-2 & F-2B with my GK MB 112 II for a while but haven't gotten around to it. There are a couple of options - would you be running in stereo or mono? You could go stereo into the SF-2, then stereo into the F-2B but use the summed output on the F-2B into your amp. Obviously, mono would be easiest and I think you would still be making good use of the two units. Some other questions would be – what do you hope to get out of both units? My question for myself is, Is the sound and tonal control of the F-2B necessary in a live rig? Do I really need the tonal shaping of the SF-2 live? It adds a level of complexity that I haven’t yet decided is worth it, especially if I'm just running mono into my amp. Can my amp benefit and actually project what the SF-2 & F-2B are doing? Now a stereo rig, on the other hand... | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 540 Registered: 11-2011 |
Harry, Really good questions, and the skies the limit! I have a Distillate and a Series 1, so I would at least like to play around in stereo with my Series isolating the pickups through both units. My expectations are wide open in potential tonalities. The SF2, F2B, and DS5R will reside in the same portable rack. So what I'd like to do is make up some short patch cables and play around. At present I have a Mesa Walkabout Scout and maybe in the future aquiring one of those mini D class power houses to a cab. The F2B would be good for that. My concern at present is going into the Walkabout with an existing pre in it and gain structure. As far as the SF2 and F2B together? Is that the F2B will add warmth and the SF2 filtering. I may be wrong not having the F2B yet. Curious of any real world experience on this. Pete | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2109 Registered: 5-2002 |
The thing about the F2B is that it's not a surgical tool. Think of it as a broad brush, or even like a filter in photography, that can adjust contrast and color. It's more useful to me than the SF2. YMMV, but it provides a good tonal base from which to work, while the SF2 is more about dealing with specific issues. My SF2 doesn't get much use, but I have to have the F2B, even if I don't ever change the settings all night. It's like the Goodifier™. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6225 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm really enjoying my new rig consisting of an F-2B/Carvin Stereo Power Amp/two 1x12 w/JBL K-120s. I wanted to get used to this before adding my SF-2. Now I'm finding I can do so much with the two F-2B channels, adding the SF-2 might just be overkill. Edwin, have you switched back from the Sarno these days? Bill, tgo | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2112 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well, the Sarno is at the heart of one rig and the F2B is at the heart of another. I'm using the F2B mostly because it's stereo and I like EQ'ing each pickup separately for the Starfire. Both get lots of use! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1562 Registered: 1-2005 |
"The thing about the F2B is that it's not a surgical tool. Think of it as a broad brush, or even like a filter in photography, that can adjust contrast and color. " This is great Edwin! That could go in the promotional materials! There are a lot of different ways the SF-2 can be used. If you're using the SF-2 with an Alembic instrument, then it could be kind of redundant, but with a non-Alembic you can use the low-pass filter to Alembicize it. I've been contemplating a stereo rig with two separate combos, and thought about using the high-pass filter for the treble combo, so as not to compete with the bass combo (if that makes sense), but just turning the bass down on the treble combo is probably good enough... | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4469 Registered: 5-2009 |
The Alembic SF-2 can also be a stand alone preamp directly into a power amp. | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 541 Registered: 11-2011 |
Edwin, That is by far the best explanation of these 2 units I have heard. It sounds like you do not work them in conjunction? Wolf, Being that I use my SF2 now directly in my Mesa using the F2B should be at least close? Keeping in mind gain structure. Strange I can't seem to find any input, send / return impedance or sensitivity specs on the Walkabout? The F2B indicates the amps impedance should be at least 10K. I guess a call to Mesa is in order. I hope they are 1/2 as nice as our Alembic friends.  Thank you, Pete (Message edited by Flpete1uw on September 09, 2015) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4470 Registered: 5-2009 |
Pete , The methods of others may differ then mine but when using an Alembic SF-2 , I generally like to put it in the signal chain right after the instrument and then using the basic principles of gain structure that you already know all too well my brother . I have used an Alembic F-2B at times and sometimes not before a power amp, but not with a unit like the Walkabout. I don't see why it would not work if you patch it all up right and watch that gain structure . I currently like to use my IN-2 and SF-2 together , in fact they cohabitate together in the same nice 2 space rack. " They love each other ! " Wolf | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2113 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hi! I actually do use the SF2 and F2B in conjunction every now and then. It's a fantastic combination. I also wouldn't say that having an Alembic instrument with onboard filters obviates the use of an SF2. The SF2 has a much bigger range of tone (both the wider sweep and variable filter type are huge assets) and the ability to blend the filtered and direct sound is crucial to its functioning. All that said, I just don't find it all that necessary to get the tones I hear in my head. YMMV, if what you are going after is in there, there's no other way to get it. I'd love to build it right into the bass to replace the onboard S II electronics, but it just hasn't been that pressing. I tend to go from the bass to the SF2 to the F2B. I don't see why you couldn't do it the other way round, though. For a while I carted around all three!  | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1691 Registered: 6-2002 |
I run my SF-2 right after my F-1X,that works well too. I usually use it in stereo mode, fed with the high and low pass outputs from the F-1X....then to the Lexicon MX400 which feeds the power amp. I just rearranged things and am running full range out of the F-1X SF-2 in mono mode, splitter to feed the stereo MX400...then to three(well five ) amp channels (right stack,left stack, and subs). This also sounds grrreat! Goes to show if you watch the gain structure carefully, they can be configured to suit many needs of Goodification™". I had a walkabout head years ago. It was really good for small/med rooms,just not enough headroom power to deal with the transients when turned up. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4663 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have an SF-2 in my rack and in the times I use it it's mainly subtle, unless I'm on a large stage with a great setup and FOH PA system I can then really emphasise the heavy bottom end in the lower frequencies that I can't push up from the bass. I used it in the send/return loop on my mesa boogie walkabout head for a few years prior to me getting a rack system and was happy with the results. I have considered taking it out of my main rack and using it as a pre-amp paired up with a 1U power amp as a lightweight alternative. But not found a 1U rack power amp yet. | ||
| s_wood
Senior Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 401 Registered: 5-2002 |
I use my SF-2 in the effects loop of my F-1X, with good results. It never occurred to me to do it Edwin's way: bass > SF-2 > F-1X. Think I will try it at this weekend's gig. Jazzy, I have found a 1U power amp that weighs a mere 3.5 pounds that I really like. It's the Demeter Mini 800D. 800 RMS @ 4 ohms. It's available in a standard-sized rack-mountable case if you special order it. The 800D sounds very, very good to my ears. It doesn't have the depth of a Crest CA-9, but the CA-9 weighs 50 lbs more than the Demeter and sounds almost as good. I'll happily make that trade. Check it out here http://www.demeteramps.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=92 | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 543 Registered: 11-2011 |
Oh good God, where do I start? The F2B arrives and a new chapter begins. Edwin, I defiantly understand what you mean now. It took me awhile to get to understand the SF2, and I do value what it does. But this F2b is so intuitive I'm finding tones within seconds. So the learning curve starts. Decisions decisions So many tones so little time Pete | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2115 Registered: 5-2002 |
I am glad you are defiant. Nothing like staking out your own sonic territory! Forge into the unknown! | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 544 Registered: 11-2011 |
Edwin, I meant definitely, however defiant does describe me pretty much as well. You got to love the I-Pad auto correct. Maybe it's trying telling me something? Thanks for all your input, Pete I even had to edit this post! Yikes! (Message edited by Flpete1uw on September 12, 2015) (Message edited by Flpete1uw on September 12, 2015) | ||
| moongerm
Advanced Member Username: moongerm Post Number: 275 Registered: 8-2013 |
I'd be defiant if you asked me to carry that rack to the stage Edwin lol. That is one killer rack. By the way this thread inspired me to set up my F1-Xs in stereo today for the first time with my new Series 2. Previously I have lazily been running the SF-2 into one F1-X in mono in the effects loop. I found in my experiments this works the best for me after several iterations of placement before and after the F1-x. The SF-2 for me was my first foray into the world of Alembic. I use it with my Carl Thompson basses to Alembicize them. It works exceptionally well since those basses are passive but it wasn't enough. I had to get an Alembic bass. After several Alembic bass aquisitions I have always kept the SF-2 in the signal chain in multiple configurations. Keeping in mind all along except for 1 gig where I experimented in stereo with anniversary electronics, I mostly ran things in mono to keep it simple and left the SF-2 statically configured (for the most part) as a tonal foundation. With the new Series 2 (my first series ever) I took the SF-2 out of signal chain entirely and ran the Series 2 in stereo into 2 F1-Xs and I must say it is wonderfully amazing. I don't miss the SF-2 at all (yet). I am running the F1-Xs into a QSC GX7 stereo power amp. I like the idea Jazzy of taking the SF-2 and turning it into a smaller seperate rig on its own as a stereo preamp. Finding a good 1U power amp would be nice indeed. | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2011 |
As an update, I tried using both the main in and return from the F2B to my Walkabout. Heard little to no difference except the fact on a Walkabout the return appears to be after the main amp section, so you lose controls at the amp. As long as the gain structure is in place I heard no distortion. One note either main amp in or return the F2B did add a component of hiss? Not to bad but still there. You can take some of it out at the Walkabout eq's. I briefly tried the F2B / SF2 hookup and quickly became overwhelmed. I need to learn the F2B better. Fun times! Pete | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4482 Registered: 5-2009 |
HI Pete , you have most likely already seen this ; http://www.alembic.com/prod/f2b.html Wolf | ||
| flpete1uw
Senior Member Username: flpete1uw Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2011 |
Hi Wolf, I did see this along with the links on the FAQ section. This strikes me the most: "As in its predecessor, the instrument signal is amplified by the first stage before any volume control" I thought of either building or buying some sort of attenuation pad after the F2B to amp in? Again thinking more than I should. Pete | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1744 Registered: 2-2011 |
I have a F-2B & SF-2, so here's my 2 cents. I run a sort of hybrid stereo/mono setup. My DS-5R is set to stereo & I run each pickup to a separate channel on the F-2B, I then come out of the F-2B from the Mix(mono) jack into the SF-2 channel A input & out of the SF-2 channel B output into one channel of a QSC GX7. I have one channel of the SF-2 set for Band Pass & use it to dial in the room to get the best low end punch for that venue. I rotate the frequency control on that channel about 1/8 turn up or down to find the sweet spot to get the fat "kick drum" attack on my low end, then use the filter gain to set how much I need to enhance the sound. I run the other channel of the SF-2 in High Pass mode & use it to enhance the upper mids & highs for more clarity. So I use the EQ on each channel of the F-2B to EQ each pickup separately, & use the SF-2 as an overall tone enhancer for both pickups & to dial in the room. The SF-2 is almost like an auto correct like you would use on a photo to make it more vivid. It takes the already great sound from the F-2B & really makes it stand out. When I first got my F-2B I was using the power amp section of my Eden WT 800 to power Eden D410 XLS & D 115 XLT cabinets. When I got my QSC GX7 it was a noticeable difference in sound, MUCH cleaner! I have since switched to AccuGroove 3 & 4 way cabinets & now my rig is so much more responsive to minute tweaks! If you really want to appreciate the full spectrum Alembics are capable of, I can't recommend AccuGroove enough! The made my Eden boxes sound like they had pillows strapped to the front of them! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2128 Registered: 5-2002 |
So, does anyone use the SF-2 to tweak between or during songs? I use my onboard filters all the time. Rusty, it's interesting how you are going more and more modern and I'm heading back to my old tubes and 15" JBLs! I agree about Eden, though. I never liked the cabinets that much. Very lumpy frequency response. | ||
| rustyg61
Senior Member Username: rustyg61 Post Number: 1749 Registered: 2-2011 |
Edwin, after getting my Series II I realized I wasn't getting the full spectrum with my Eden rig, so I started looking at full range cabinets. I tried Acme first & didn't like them. The had great bottom end but not enough on top for my SII. Then I read about AccuGroove & it was love at fisrt note! I started with a Wedgie 3 way with a 12/6/dual tweeter, & have now added an El Whappo 4 way with a 15/12/6/dual tweeter. They are amazingly responsive to the slightest tweak on my filters or CVQs. With my Eden boxes I could barely tell any change when I rotated the CVQ controls. Your 15" JBLs should go quite nicely with your tie dyed grill covers! :-) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2489 Registered: 9-2002 |
Snarky, animus-stained opinion: Edens make great boat anchors or artificial reefs. Crabs and bottom-feeders need somewhere to nest. There. I feel better. OK, talk amongst yourselves, it's passed by . . . . Joey | ||
| rv_bass
New Username: rv_bass Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2014 |
I agree with Rusty; I just picked up an Accugroove Wedgie and it's an amazingly clear sounding cab, no coloration, you hear exactly what you put into it. | ||
| alembician
New Username: alembician Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2015 |
I do believe that the SF-2 would find a good home with me if you are so inclined, Moon ;) |
