| Author | Message | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1575 Registered: 1-2005 |
Although I own a few basses that can be run in stereo (Alembic Series I doubleneck, Stanley Clarke with Anniversary electronics, Rickenbacker 4003), I have never actually done it. Well, I finally put together something that will allow it to happen:  I'm using the gray Rick-O-Sound box in the bottom right (and it looks like bass & treble for Ric is different than Alembic - had to reverse them) - the neck pickup signal is going to the yellow mute box, silver CAJ V-COMP tube compressor, blue MXR bass octave divider, into one channel of the Mackie mixer at the top left. The treble pickup signal goes into the silver A/B box (acting as a mute box), white CAJ V-COMP tube compressor, Fulltone Bass-Drive, MXR 10-band EQ, then into the other channel of the Mackie mixer. The mixer is there because I don't have amps at home and wanted to make sure everything worked, so I was running it through headphones - sounded pretty good! The MXR is set up in the picture as a crude high-pass filter, since I didn't have my SF-2 in the chain. Ultimately I plan on using the MXR as a clean boost for solos, in which case I would have it set differently. I don't see myself using this setup very often - I was motivated because the Northern California Gathering is coming up and thought it would be fun to try. A blue box could easily replace the Rick-O-Sound box for a Series instrument. The mixer isn't necessary but I need L connectors in order to fit into the final effects, so I might be using the mixer at the Gathering. Also, that way I can run both pickups out of the mixer mono into one amp, or stereo into two, depending on what I can get my hands on - I might only have my GK, but am hoping my friend can bring my PJB for the high end. I was initially going to try and cram everything on the board, but again, I don't really see myself using this setup that often. I contemplated getting a really small board for the white compressor & A/B box, which I could also use for a break-out board I've been contemplating for an effects-loop set of modulation effects (phaser, envelope filter, maybe delay). Finally, this rig could be run through an SF-2 as I mentioned about, using one channel as a high-pass filter so as not to have phasing problems with the other amp. At this point I don't plan on going that far at the Gathering, running the low pass on the neck pickup and adjusting either the MXR EQ or graphic EQ on the PJB should be sufficient. Any thoughts? | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1576 Registered: 1-2005 |
I've packed things away - the next question is, will I have a chance to try and actually run this setup through an amp before Saturday? I'm very busy, but might have a chance Friday. I'll be running into the mixer, then out with both signals mixed mono to my GK amp. Also gotta make sure that I have enough space in my car! 1. Stanley Clarke Signature Squared 2. doubleneck 3. GK MB-112 II 4. pedalboard 5. Rush bag: cables, effects 6. stands 7. PJB Suitcase (if I get it back in time for Saturday) 8. AlFeMbic 9. rack: SF-2, F-2B I have a relatively recent Honda Civic so I think I'm good, I might have to - gasp! - clean my trunk! Anyway, trying to set it back up after having torn it down will be good practice for Saturday. Playing in a couple of bands this past three years or so helped me get into a mode where things can be set up and torn down quickly for live performance - I miss it! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1586 Registered: 1-2005 |
Meant to update - the rig worked out well at the NorCal Gathering last weekend! I'm calling it the "pseudo-stereo rig" - the pickups separate through different effects chains, then summed together in the mixer, mono out to the GK amp. We were able to use both Anniversary equipped instruments with the Rick-O-Sound box, Series instruments with my blue box, and even mono instruments could just be run through one channel. Here are a couple of audio samples: https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/alembic-scorpion-slap https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/alembic-scorpion-distortion And video: https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/alembic-scorpion-distortion It's definitely a different mindset to play with this setup. The bit that I recorded of myself I had the bridge pickup on too loud so it sounds thin, but Nate and Dave sounded great! | ||
| charles_holmes
Senior Member Username: charles_holmes Post Number: 439 Registered: 3-2009 |
The rig sounds nice! For me, stereo is the only way to go. I enjoy being able to blend the tones anyway that I wish. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6250 Registered: 7-2004 |
I'm curious about others' thoughts on speaker placement in a stereo rig. Stacked up vertically, or spread horizontally like a home stereo system? Bill, tgo | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 2292 Registered: 2-2005 |
The last time I knew a guitar player that used a stereo setup complete with stereo guitar he had his amps horizontal and separated on his side of the stage. He had some stereo effects and a pan peddle so the separation was needed to get the full effect. Keith | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1587 Registered: 1-2005 |
Thanks Chalie! Bill, I think it depends on how you are conceptualizing "stereo" - for this bass rig, I would put the high output amp on top. I would think that if one speaker was putting out high end and one was doing low end that this would be the way to go. For more conventional "stereo" effects (as in left-right separation like chorus or ping-pong delays) then I would think horizontal would make more sense. I hope other people chime in! It seemed like a rare occasion to be able to experiment with the stereo setup, even more so at the Gathering to be able to play different basses through it! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4529 Registered: 5-2009 |
I used this rig for a fast stereo set up with my 81-1940 Series I at a recent festival gig on 9/27/15 with many bands . I had to have something up fast and back down fast. I put it all on wheels !  Wolf | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1588 Registered: 1-2005 |
Wow - cool Wolf! Wish we had a close-up of the heads to see how you have them set... ;) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4530 Registered: 5-2009 |
Harry, Those heads are my second choice to the Alembic rack with SF-2 / F-2B /IN-2 and a Power amp. I chose the GK800B and the GK400B based on the fast set up and and tear down time involved for that gig in between bands . I some times use two GK 800RB amps instead of the one 400RB as well .I can tell you what my knob settings for that 800RB were in the pic because it is here next to me in my office room and that was the last gig with it . I have had these amps for about twenty five or more years and they need to be used once in a while so I took them out for a gig again . .Volume 5/Treble3/Hi Mid5/Low mid8/Bass7/Boost 0____ This gig was out side so I set the Bass higher then for an inside gig. The truth is that the settings on these amps would be different at each different location. Wolf | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1606 Registered: 1-2005 |
Update: never really went any further with this, though I did do some stereo recording of my doubleneck - neck clean, bridge distorted, either through a Budda tube distortion or Z Vex Mastotron (filtered with Moog MF-1 Low Pass Filter) - will post clips when I finish. Also, found what I think is a great stereo bass sound, and possibly an Alembic. It's "Montana" by Frank Zappa, with the wonderful Tom Fowler on bass. The bass sounds change throughout the album - in fact, the production changes throughout - sometimes the music is kind of muffled behind a bassy, up-front vocal, like in "I Am The Slime". It changes a couple of times in "Montana" - during the guitar solo (which I have cued up below) the low-frequency bass part gets CRANKED! It's awesome. I think it's more in the right channel, and in the left channel you can hear the clanky part - the bridge pickup? If you tune into it, it's almost strange - is the clanky part overdubbed? No, it's the exact same playing as the bassy part, but seemingly separated. Anyway, give it a listen (beginning at "Moving to Montana soon - gonna be a dental floss tycoon"): https://youtu.be/smZA9Jv3qH0?t=1m32s (BTW, that's Tina Turner - and the Iketes? - doing the vocals at 3:22 - "I'm plucking the dental floss - that's growing all around me...") https://youtu.be/smZA9Jv3qH0?t=3m23s And it's kind of weird posting this on Xmas Eve but I'm just chilling at home - hopefully someone will be looking for something to take them away for a little bit - this guitar solo is definitely a journey! The bass and drums just groove so hard underneath it. And definitely try and listen with headphones for the full "stereo" effect! | ||
| hammer
Senior Member Username: hammer Post Number: 823 Registered: 9-2009 |
Ive always appreciated the production in Zappa recordings. There's an attention to detail that you fail to get in many other recordings of the era. (Although I have to admit that every once in a while they have left me asking the question, "what were they thinking when they decided ti do that?" I've personally attributed the difference to the distinction between a musician who was truly an artist and those who just focused on churning out the number of recordings specified in their contracts. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1608 Registered: 1-2005 |
Good point hammer - also, Zappa was much more than just a guitarist - even just thinking about how much he did intersplicing various sections into each other, like a guitar solo from one show into a version of a song from another. If I were to try and introduce someone to the music of Frank Zappa, I think "Montana" would be a perfect example. It has the interesting, off-kilter percussion (in the intro and xylophone in the middle section), silly lyrics (without being crude) that question what we consider normal, unusual melodies (again in the middle section), killer guitar solo and killer band! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4675 Registered: 5-2009 |
I went to see ZAPPA does ZAPPA I few weeks ago . I met some members of the band after the show including Dweezil . Such a humble gentleman . They all were friendly and forthcoming with conversation . " Montana " was played at that date but the main focus was to do the entire " One Size Fits All " album . The show was far BEYOND awesome . Wolf | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1609 Registered: 1-2005 |
Wolf that's awesome! I remember seeing that show advertised but didn't motivate to go. I used to have one of those plastic records that would come with Guitar Player magazine - Zappa live, early '80s, doing "Sharleena" with Dweezil sitting in, I think as a teenager. "Battlestar Galactica?" Never said FZ live myself though. I have been getting ready finally to record the doubleneck again - tried it first with fuzz from the Mastotron/Moog lo-pass filter combo - sounds cool, but maybe not what I'm looking for with this track, so next going to go through the Budda distortion - maybe even get an acceptable take??? Also realized that I'm committed to using the fretless part of the doubleneck on this track - it's not easy to play - fretless is hard enough when you can see the markers, but they are a) rather faded, this bass is 40 years old! and b) the room I'm recording in has very low light. But I'm gonna do it! Wouldn't it be cool to be able to say the bass part was recorded on Xmas Day? | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1610 Registered: 1-2005 |
So I did get a usable take: https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/rays-of-sound-demo This is just a demo - I think I am going to cut the two measures of bass-only at the very beginning and rerecord the filter sweep in just the 4 bars with the filtered drums, but I did want to try it this way. I did end up doing the neck pickup clean (panned slightly left) and the bridge pickup through the Budda distortion (panned slightly right). I recorded some free playing, then did a couple of passes on this tune. Erased one I maybe should have kept, but the next one was ok - punched in another take from the key change because I messed up. By this point I could tell I was getting a little tired (I'm out of practice!) - thought I had messed up my settings between the two takes and was thoroughly bummed but then realized that I was confused and mixed in an earlier completely different take! Phew! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1612 Registered: 1-2005 |
In memory of Lemmy - a huge influence on my playing (and probably on my life too) - here is the first-ever time that the doubleneck has ever been presented played with a pick and distortion (digitally by myself anyway): https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/lemmy-tribute | ||
| mtjam
Advanced Member Username: mtjam Post Number: 352 Registered: 11-2011 |
Nice Lemmy tribute! I think he would approve of your sound on that track! | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1615 Registered: 1-2005 |
Thanks mtjam! He might think there's too much low-end, though I've been going back and listening to some of my favorite Motörhead tracks and there are some nice meaty bass tones! I put together a complete version of this track. The original demo (played with fingers) is the first part, goes right into the Lemmy Tribute as the solo (played with pick), then the conclusion (again played with fingers). Again, the finger parts were recorded Christmas Day 2015, the pick part the day that Lemmy died. My buddy Greg DeGuglielmo is on drums - he is responsible for a lot of the feel and vibe of the track. Another friend Lee (he prefers to stay off-grid) is playing the vibes, though I have manipulated them. I think the bass was too loud on my original demo (link no longer works) - I've tried to temper it - please let me know what you think of the mix! I still need to listen in my car... https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/rays-of-sound-seven-complete | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 1619 Registered: 1-2005 |
Doh! I changed the link for the complete #7: https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/rays-of-sound-seven And for fun, here it is clean in earlier version #5 (though not recorded in stereo): https://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/rays-of-sound-5-doubleneck I think the low-end might be a little over the top on #5, but I can't help it! |
