| Author | Message | ||
| dabis
New Username: dabis Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2003 |
Hi everyone. Some weeks ago I grabbed my Essence (3 years without seeing the light) and realized that I didn´t take much care of it. Well, as has no serious damages, it needed some cleaning and setting, as well as be played again. I purchased some Alembic products and started this week the work with the freetboard and the bridge. Here´s my list of tools: - Alembic Supreme Polish - Flitz polish - Herrera Guitars Fretboard oil (http://www.herreraguitars.com/productos/oli_fluido) - Phillips screwdrivers - 7/64" and 2mm Allen keys - 1/4" hexagonal key - 4mm hexagonal key  (Message edited by dabis on October 07, 2015) | ||
| dabis
New Username: dabis Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2003 |
And here are the first steps: - Cleaning and oiling the fretboard with the specific oil. The ebony now it´s dark dark  - Dissasembling and cleaning the bridge and the nut with Flitz. The results where shocking for me. Never saw this pieces shinning like this as I bought the bass used in 1998 (made in 1993).     - Sanding the tailpiece. I started to work the coated surface with Scotchbrite, as some member suggested here, but it wasn´t enough, so I decided to sand it.   Well, finishing the work with the Supreme Polish before assembling the pieces. I clean the frets as well with a little bit of Flitz, so now are shinning too. And adjusting the instrument with Joey´s post steps http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/16318.html?1107545766 | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3699 Registered: 10-2002 |
Looks great David. You can come to Scotland and do mine next :-) Graeme | ||
| gearhed289
Member Username: gearhed289 Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2004 |
Exactly what oil did you use on the fingerboard? Looks great! EDIT - never mind! I started scrolling to the pretty pictures a little too fast. LOL! (Message edited by gearhed289 on October 08, 2015) | ||
| ed_zeppelin
Intermediate Member Username: ed_zeppelin Post Number: 131 Registered: 2-2010 |
I'm adding this after writing the swill below, because I want to be sure that you know I'm not being negative about this in any way, okay? I've been fixing guitars and attempting to play them for for four and a half decades, and I find that I've *gotten better at both. One of the great joys of my life is that I won't be confronted with some of the hack-jobs I did along the way, especially in those crucial 15-to-21 ages when you make some of the worst decisions of your life and when anybody asks why, you just shrug and do something dumber. Okay, so with that out of the way, the rest of this tirade is about how I view instrument care as a geezer myself. At one point I could see taking a belt sander to my Rolex, but at this point my rule with guitar repair is: if you can't tell what I did, then I did it right. So that's the spirit of my rant. Most of what I know is stuff I learned from others. ---------------------------------------------------- I would never use abrasives on an Alembic, simply because you don't need to. I'm not sure what kind of brass alloy (and there are many) Alembic uses, but brass has been used for musical instruments for over 5,000 years, in cultures around the world. Nobody would take a Scotchbrite to a trumpet or trombone, yet musicians are able to keep them bright and shiny with just a few basics. Ammonia and sulphur are the primary agents that tarnish metals (especially "soft" metals like most forms of brass, which are alloys containing tin, copper and lead). Sulphur is acidic (as in sulfuric acid), ammonia is alkaline. I use little cheap Pyrex "prep cups" (four for four bucks) and soft cloths. Put a tablespoon or so of white vinegar in one prep cup and a teaspoon of baking soda in the other, with a few drops of water to make a paste. That's all you need for 90% of household cleaning chores. http://www.rd.com/home/cleaning-organizing/5-best-baking-soda-and-vinegar-cleaning-solutions/ http://www.angieslist.com/articles/how-clean-vinegar-and-baking-soda.htm http://www.bobvila.com/articles/cleaning-with-baking-soda-and-vinegar/#.VhaSomK9KSM The smooge on your tailpiece is mostly tarnish within the protective coating/lacquer or just beneath it, on the surface of the brass itself. Like most forms of tarnish, it builds up on the surface, not necessarily INTO it. That means you have to remove it without affecting the surface. That calls for mechanical action, rather than chemical. Here's a picture of a tarnished Alembic:  Congratulate yourself if you got that. For mechanical action I use cheap NON-PINK erasers. You can get them in three and four packs everywhere. The really gummy soft ones just blob that stuff away. If you need a little more oomph, grab the next one. Usually that's all you need to get back down to the surface by removing the tarnish on top of it. I can't recall ever using the ink erasers. Want one? I've got a bunch somewhere. A little baking soda paste on a soft cloth (soft toothbrush and Q-tips as well) is generally all you need to polish the surface. This is corrosion, which happens when the metal surface is infiltrated.  Some people (Jerry Garcia, for instance) exude sweat that just eats metal. (Which is why his hardware was always gold-plated.) Believe it or not, non-lemon Pledge is excellent protection. I got that from Stu Hamm's tech and never looked back. Spray it in a four inch circle on a soft cloth and disperse it as evenly as possible, working it into the metal or wood. Buff it out and it'll stay that way forever. More than anything, enjoy the process. Musical instruments are as old as mankind. The oldest object known to have been created by man is a flute made from a bird femur, over 100,000 years ago. We're in a long line of people who like to make noise. I guess that's my point. And don't reach for the belt sander when the Steinway needs dusting.   *yes, "gotten," even though it makes me cringe too. I'm Native Sudden Californian so there's certain words I'm entitled to use, dig? Are we groovy here? Totally bitchin', far out. | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 2437 Registered: 11-2004 |
really depends what he used to sand it, fine grade wet & dry is ok as it is used for polish finishing. I had the same problem with my MK Signature when I bought it in 98. I used jeweller's rouge on a hard pad dremel rotary tool to remove the laquer and then applied metal polish, I decided not to re laquer it as it would eventually break down and I would be back to square one! | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1700 Registered: 11-2004 |
... (Message edited by tbrannon on October 08, 2015) | ||
| stephenr
Intermediate Member Username: stephenr Post Number: 114 Registered: 9-2014 |
Sanding off what remained of the old finish on my almost 40 year old brass back plate before cleaning it with Flitz is exactly what was recommended by someone in the shop when I called Alembic to ask. It is difficult to destroy a solid piece of brass and if you use extremely fine grit wet/dry paper it comes out virtually scratch free. Agree, though, about the Pledge. Been using it for years to clean my instruments on the advice of a luthier friend. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 1803 Registered: 5-2006 |
Dabis: Nice work! Ed Zeppelin: Most of us like their Alembics in pristine shiny condition (I’m one of them) Hence the added option (since the 90’s iirc) of plated hardware, for the normal Brass hardware Alembic sells Flitz metal polish (I use Brasso, since that’s available over here) The corrosion can get really bad, with green stuff forming and eating away your hardware. (on instruments used a lot by a sweaty player) The Scotch bright/sanding paper is needed to remove the clear finish Alembic started putting on some hardware, unattended it will get very ugly eventually. (with black streaks etc, see above pic) My 2010 Elan has reached that point now so it will get the abrasive treatment asap, reminds me to ask for uncoated hardware if I ever order another one (without plated hardware) When you’re selling a bass, shiny hardware also helps a lot. (too bad, I know from experience) It raises the “wow” factor and will most likely make the buyer pay top $$$. With very corroded hardware, the buyer will most likely point that out and try to lower the price (I would) :-) That said, all my instruments get a thorough cleaning once or twice a year. Been doing that for about 16 years now and they are all in top condition. These are not trumpets, pieces of art with required patina etc, these are Alembics and they’re allowed to shine! :-) Now for the -what not to do with your Alembic hardware- Years ago, I polished the hardware of my ’88 Spoiler and powdercoated them with a clear coat. Worked very well for about 3 years, then it started corroding like you see on the tailpiece above… The clearcoat Alembic uses can be easily removed, powdercoating….. Not so easy…! :-) Absolutely no fun job at all, required some heavy duty sanding violence and some nasty chemicals. :-) I ended up buying a complete new hardware set and over the years managed to get the original set clean again. (I took my time) I promised to send the original set to Stephen T Wishnevsky (Wishbass), so though heavily abused it will be on a bass again and will make someone very happy. No need to worry too much about breaking/devaluing the hardware, it’s as good as indestructible! :-) (be extremely careful with the logo’s though) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 4535 Registered: 5-2009 |
Personally the method that I have used with all kinds of painted or coated small metal with a wide variety of types of items is 100% non abrasive chemical striping . I have used just Acetone in a covered metal can or bowl or JASCO paint and epoxy remover. I put the item to be striped in the can and then pour in he Acetone or Jasco , then cover the can and walk away. Sometimes you just need to do a little scrubbing with a natural bristle brush not synthetic ( it might melt from the chemicals ). Use hand and face protection with arms covered ! Within less then a few hours and sometimes just moments the item will be down to bare metal ! It has worked for me every time. Wolf | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 6261 Registered: 7-2004 |
Forest: Are you saying that if I merely rub non-lemon pledge on my brass it will stay shiny forever? Never heard of that. For several years I've been rubbing a small amount of Alberto VO5 on polished brass. It does seem to keep it shiny longer, but certainly not forever. Forever would be better. Bill, tgo | ||
| dabis
New Username: dabis Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2003 |
Uou, thanks for the responses. jacko - I have pending a visit to Glasgow. If yyou serves me some good local craftbeer maybe I can "sand" your Alembic. gearhed289 - I used the oil you see on the link, Herrera is a good luthier (maybe the best) in Barcelona. He builds, repair and maintain tones of hi-end instruments in his tinny shop. On the description of the oil explains that it´s an original formula he does and bottle on the shop. Great results, but I can´t compare with lemon oil because was the first time I cleaned the fretboard in 17 years. ed_zeppelin - You really rock, I apreciate a lot your long explanation. Well, as far as I never did intensive care of my instrument, I started using Alembic recommended products and some tips you all have benn writting on this forum. I almost read all the posts in here about polishing brass parts. Maybe the "sanding option" it´s the worse, but for some reasons I decided to did it. First, altough it´s an ugly option as you said, the finish of the mechanized tailpiece was rough than the finish I got on first sanding. As a mechanic as I am, I knew more or less wich results I would obtained sanding the tailpiece, and I make a try on the bottom surface (the one that is in contact with the body of the bass). Taking a close look a day after the work, I realized that I have to resand this piece again with a "softer" (I don´t know the correct adjective in english) sandpaper. I´ve been thinking the "sanding option" a while, because Flitz doesn´t work well over or beneath the coating surface and neither the Scotchbrite. Well, I´ll be back here with some better pictures if the results are getting better on next days. I readed all your explanation and I understand almost everything. Thanks again. Note that I didn´t sanded the bridge pieces, as long as these didn´t needed because the non coated surface these have. Thanks for the comments too to terryc, tbrannon, stephenr, fc_spoiler (I readed a lot of your comments round here), sonicus and lbpesq. | ||
| dabis
Junior Username: dabis Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2003 |
fc_spoiler: I touched just like a fly the logo, not attempting to let it shinning, just to clean minimally:  Here are some other pics with the daylight:    | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 935 Registered: 9-2004 |
When pulling the tailpiece on the body of an older bass, it's a good time to replace the brass screws with stainless steel ones that match. Gawd help me, but I have good luck cleaning the logos with Tarn-X, which I get off the guitar right afterwards. I also have great results cleaning the fretboard with WD-40 sprayed into a rag and rubbed on the fretboard and then cleaned off after rubbing with clean rags. No one likes the sound of this, but I have been doing it for 40 plus years to guitars I still own and it works great. One of the best guitar players in the world taught be this a long time ago. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3701 Registered: 10-2002 |
David. let me know when you're heading to Glasgow. It's not too far for me to come in so we could meet up for a beer or two if you like. Graeme |
