| Author | Message | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4945 Registered: 6-2002 |
Sometimes I wake from sleep and realise I've been thinking curiously during the night so here is today's thought. :-) A few years back I played at a festival in Salmon Arm Canada and from a distance I heard what I though was an alembic bass being played in a blues band. When I went over to the stage, sure enough it was an alembic. This has happened maybe one or two times at other gigs since. Although the audience probably had no idea and just heard bass, I must have recognised a distinctive character in the sound that shouted Alembic. I also went to a Stanley Clarke gig in London where he was playing a Spellbinder and whilst it didn't sound like an alembic it sounded like Stanley Clarke. But then I could see what he was playing and sometimes we are guilty of "hearing with our eyes... :-)". Another occasion I was focussing on a really great and different bass sound as I walked into a venue and, whilst it had alembic like character my ears told me it just wasn't quite there. When I got to my seat and checked the stage, it was a Jaydee. But should we, as alembic players, always be able to recognise the alembic sound regardless of how it is played eq'd etc since it was designed from the ground up to sound different? If we can hear the bass in music and not recognise it is an alembic then what does that actually mean & should it matter to us as players? I'd be really interested in your views, experiences. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 1028 Registered: 9-2004 |
I love Alembics and the build quality is second to none and they have unabashed great tone. I have also heard tons of music with other bass guitars that I love the sound of. Ultimately to me, the bass is a tool for creating music. If the song requires a P bass, that is what I use. I think in terms of classic electric bass sounds. I think of the Ricky 4001 of Yes, the Stingray of Sadie (and The Brothers Johnson), the BC Rich of Chic, The P bass of Duck Dunn and others, the Alembic of Stanley, etc. Beyond that, I don't really care too much. However, to this day nothing sounds like a B3 with a Leslie! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 3740 Registered: 10-2002 |
I think an Alembic can be made to sound like just about any other instrument so I guess it could be quite hard to recognise it unseen. when you saw me play in Birmingham, you thought the bass lacked some mids (and possibly as a result, some definition). if you'd heard the band from the other bar would you have recognised it as an alembic? Graeme | ||
| edwardofhuncote
Senior Member Username: edwardofhuncote Post Number: 882 Registered: 6-2014 |
Good question Jazzy. David beat me to it on this one, but I agree... other than sound, it's also about the build quality, and basses *are* tools we use to get that sound. In his book, Victor Wooten said he didn't learn to play bass as much as he learned to play music. I have found that it becomes much easier to do the job of playing bass when the tool I'm using is built to perform like an extension of myself... in other words, I don't have to think about the tool while I'm using it, I can just play. Since where I live, I've never even seen another Alembic being played out, I don't know if I could pick out someone else playing an Alembic by sound alone or not, but I can most definitely pick mine out. I could do it blindfolded... hand me a hundred basses one-by-one and I'll tell you which one is mine. There really isn't much else to compare it's sonic image with, but in a weird twist - I heard my bass back when it had aftermarket Bartolini equipment... and it was okay. But after they were replaced with correct Alembic activators, the difference was STARK. I'd never played anything in my life that responded that way. It made quite an impression. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 2564 Registered: 9-2002 |
For me there's no way. There are SO many factors involved, and over the years I've seen so many times where I've watched a guy and thought 'that CAN'T be what's making that tone' that I wouldn't dare try. Or you later read the backliner and found out that this sound on this recording was made by X playing Y . . . . electronics can't factor in what a human being can do. It's the often posed 'how do I sound like Stanley (or fill in your favorite here)'. Like I always say, if Stanley stopped mid set, got you up to finish the gig, you WON'T sound like Stanley, even on Stanley's rig. And then I've read on this forum enough about flatwounds, or lumpy amps, or restored this or that with Alembic internals, for me, there's no way. It's gotta be better ears than me. My yardstick for this is Harris with Iron Maiden. How the hell is it that bright with a finger-picked Precision, Seymours, and RotoSounds? Why is it that Geddy sounds the same on a Jazz instead of his long-time Rics? It's him. Joey | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 63 Registered: 6-2012 |
It's been my experience that the player will adjust the instrument, rig and/or their playing technique to attempt to deliver the sound they hear in their head - Keith Richards once said give me any amp or guitar and in 5 minutes it'll sound like me. That having been said, there are certain magical combinations of gear and player that just seem to bring out the best in each. I'm guessing this is because the favorable tonality inherent in the gear allows the player to just play as opposed to tweaking until it sounds they way they want it to sound. For example: I've seen Brian Setzer at least a dozen times in various venues and he's used several different guitars (usually hollow-body Gretsches) and a few different amps and he always manages to sound like Brian Setzer. However, when he is playing his #1, a vintage '59 orange 6120 through his preferred blond Bassman rig with a Roland Space Echo as a preamp, the tone is noticeably better and his playing goes to another level. So, the biggest factor is obviously the player, but the gear also needs to deliver what the player expects to hear. If it doesn't, the playing can be compromised. As we all know, Alembic instruments are designed to be as flexible and transparent as possible, allowing for the greatest amount of control by the player. Theoretically, this should allow the player to sound more like themselves than when using any other similar instrument. So to answer the question - IMO, it's not so much a matter of recognizing the ALEMBIC sound, it's more that the Alembic instrument is not interfering with the player's ability to create their own unique sound, so the listener can really hear the MUSICIAN, not the instrument. | ||
| gtrguy
Senior Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 1029 Registered: 9-2004 |
It's funny, I play guitar and bass in multiple bands. I was playing guitar in a horn band last year with a young girl on the 6 string bass. She was very talented and had a cheap Ibanez bass that I didn't really like the sound of. One day I brought my Yamaha TRB-JP to practice for her to try out. I may have been a little smug, knowing how much better I expected it to sound. She put it on and started tweaking the knobs until it sounded exactly like her cheap 6 string bass! I could not believe it! She dialed all the great tone and character out until you could not hear any difference between the two. Then I realized there is a lesson there to learn. Maybe someone here can put that lesson into words and articulate it for me better than I could, I don't know. Something about being comfortable with what is familiar... | ||
| cje
Intermediate Member Username: cje Post Number: 179 Registered: 5-2009 |
See the post right above yours... "Keith Richards once said give me any amp or guitar and in 5 minutes it'll sound like me." | ||
| jos
Member Username: jos Post Number: 99 Registered: 4-2009 |
One thing we have to understand is that instruments do not play by themselves or sound automatically good. Sometimes it does not make any sense to buy an expensive instrument if you do not know what to do with it. Don’t buy an Alembic if you do not know what it does or what to expect from it. The thing with Alembics is that if you know what you are doing you can get a lot of sounds from that instrument. Alembic can sound as a ”normal” bass if needed, no problem. But you can also use the full range sound and cover a lot of range. Alembic has an identified sound and character and that is a good thing! Fender Precision, Fender Jazz Bass, Music Man, Fodera, Ken Smith has it too to name a few. The difference is however that nobody has those glassy highs that Alembic basses has or the sharp midrange or the deep low end. The electronic is very sophisticated and the high quality woods with neck through body construction gives an extremely nice sustain and a beautiful ringing sound! Of course not everyone needs all that and that is fine too. But for us bass fanatics we need, once in a while, to use all that…... and everything that makes us sound good. I do not think any other bass has as much presence as the Alembic basses…but there are other good basses too like Fodera... I have one that plays really well and sounds good too. I also have other basses for different use, check out www.jostrandberg.com ”gear” …...but Alembics are very uniq and great to use in the studio or live, very difficult to hide in the mix, but who would like to do that? Why hire a bass player if you want to hide him? Playing in the pocket with deep sound do not mean playing muddy without articulation. But…you can sound great with a lot of different basses but by choosing the right one, the one that works the best for you……you need to worry less with the right bass……. Good instruments like good players has an identified character (and can be hidden when needed) | ||
| pauldo
Senior Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 1610 Registered: 6-2006 |
Take the sound out of the picture and talk about the bare bones craftsmanship in the construction of an Alembic. My Distillate is like butterr, smooth and creamy to the touch. A good friend played it and commented later about how easy it was to play. Yes, I said, she's a beauty and practically drives herself. Throw the tone control and response of playing in different plucking hand positions coupled with the reaction to a hard or soft touch . . . why would one want for anything else? As Jan-Olof and others have pointed out you can sound like a P-Bass or you can sound like YOU. I love my zebra wood baby! :-D | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 2252 Registered: 5-2002 |
My experience is that many basses have a unique character. A P bass is pretty instantly identifiable, and there are several classic J bass sounds. Same for Ricks, Modulus, and many others. But Alembics have the ability to go to many different places so that you have wildly different artists playing them getting very different sounds. From Stanley to Jim Cammack to Robert Gordon (Gil Scott-Heron's bassist in the later years) to Danny Bowens (G S-H bassist in the earlier years) to John McVie to Phil Lesh to, well, you get the idea. While Alembics do have a couple of iconic sounds (like Stanley), to my point of view, they are more transparent in that they don't have to have that sound. They get out of the way and let the player be the player very effectively. Which is one of the reasons that once you pick one up, you have to pay attention to everything you do. You can't play into the mud and have your inattention disappear in the noise. It's all right there. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4954 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jos ,I bought my first alembic without having a clue what to do with it. :-) I just wanted access to that tone diversity that Stanley Clarke was getting. But it took me a long time and a lot of frustration, as evident in my early threads on the forum, to understand how to get the sounds I wanted. Especially tones that will represent me. Now I think i'm getting closer to that point, I just want that tone to be heard as being different. I guess at some point I will just enjoy the music I'm making, enjoy the sound I want on stage and forget about what is going on FOH. However at the moment I'm still on that journey and looking at where the obstacles may be even if it's me that might be the problem. :-) (Message edited by jazzyvee on March 22, 2016) (Message edited by jazzyvee on March 22, 2016) | ||
| 5a_quilt_top
Member Username: 5a_quilt_top Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2012 |
But you have one thing (or, in your case, a few things..!) in your favor: You've chosen the BEST vehicle(s) to assist you with your journey - ! I chose Alembic because I wanted no more compromises, but, as I quickly learned, along with that also comes the burden of no more excuses. I can no longer blame the gear for not delivering. Knowing that has caused me to be much more attentive to my craft and, as a result, I've been inspired to improve as a player and a musician. "MY" tone / sound is in there - it's now up to me to find it and deliver it. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4955 Registered: 6-2002 |
Yep as much as these instruments are so responsive and with the ability to create some amazing tones and music in "HD Audio". They are also totally unforgiving in reproducing sloppy technique with the same quality and clarity. So yes upping your game really does come with the territory. I've actually started practicing with headphones so that I can work more accurately in damping any unneccesary ringing and string noises. | ||
| germansal
Member Username: germansal Post Number: 84 Registered: 8-2004 |
I would like to say that when you ve played it,you are infected,after that you play another basses but you cannot find the presence,attack,sustain etc Talking about my experience,of course,so when you are infected with the Alembic virus...you are lost man. Im looking for a 5 strings with low price,but its hard to find it | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 4956 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've just been watching Stanley Clarke & Friends - School Days video with the jam session at the end of the video and the alembic sound from Stanley & Jimmy is clearly distinguishable from the rest in that video. The only guy who had anything close to that tone was the big guy Wayman Tisdale. https://youtu.be/rdRG-hD5ZKo |
