| Author | Message | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1314 Registered: 9-2003 |
No really...besides the obvious single channel (F-1X) and dual-channel (F-2B) difference, what's the difeerence between the two? A previous thread stated that the F-1X is a little more "transistorized" (modernized? LOL!) than the older F-2B, but what else is different? More importantly, since I have both stereo (Series I) and mono (Custom Orion w/EMW elecs.) Alembic basses, as well as a bevy of 6-str. guitars, do I need both of the above or will one do the trick? I'm gonna buy a small rack case or bag to hold the Series power supply anyway, so what's a few more rack spaces gonna cost, LOL! DON"T answer that, LOL! More stupid questions: Do I need a SF-2 Superfilter as others have suggested? Why? I'd like a cross section of answers from experienced Alembic users (both bassists and guitarists) as well as from the Alembic folks themselves. Yes, I'll admit I'm a confirmed Alembicaholic (Alembaholic?), as well as a GASser, and a bit of a nut, LOL! As I'm always looking to expand my (sic) amp collection, and I just got the new Series, I'm just exploring "tonal" options and maybe looking to spend a few more "disposable" dead presidents to, er, um, "further the American economy", LOL! I'm happy with the sound and the portability of my Eden bass amp rig...I'm just looking to see what options are out there...especially in the "stereo" realm. As a bonus, I'd be interested to hear what an Alembic preamp would do for my guitar "sound". Thanks in advance! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 262 Registered: 2-2005 |
Kevin, One difference right off the top of my head is the F-1X has a crossover that can be used for bi-amping where the F-2B does not. This might or might not be an issue depending upon you speaker setup. Keith | ||
| gbarchus
Intermediate Member Username: gbarchus Post Number: 150 Registered: 6-2002 |
There's also a balanced line out on the F-1X, not the F-2B. Two channels can be valuable. I use them both when I can. | ||
| gtrguy
Junior Username: gtrguy Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2004 |
I just bought an older F-2B this Summer. I also use it for guitar as a replacement in the preamp section of a couple of my guitar amps (Lab series L9 and Mesa MKIV) and can get a very Fender Twin-like quality out of them by putting them into the effects return. There are also common modifications to the F-2B you can do and you can cascade one channel into another for a little more drive. | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 115 Registered: 5-2002 |
You can think of the F-1X as having some more advanced features than the F-2B. The main one is the electronic crossover which lets you separately amplify the high and low end of your sound. That will require two power amps and two sets of speakers to use, however. There's an effects loop which you can use with high-level effects processors. There's also a balanced out for going straight into a recording console. The cost of the additional stuff is that the signal path is not pure tube, which is the case in the F-2B. The F-2B also has two channels so you can set different tone settings from your Series bass pickups and have the F-2B sum them together into a single output. I think making the choice would pretty much depend on whether you need the effects loop for rack effects. The electronic crossover is the most expensive function here but biamp rigs are pretty rare. A high quality external direct box isn't all that expensive unless you want something really exotic. The tone controls work like the TMB knobs on a Fender amp. If you need more tone shaping that that (particularly more focused low-eq) then you would need to look for a different outboard EQ box. The SuperFilter has some very flexible semi-parametric EQ functions which may or may not be the right thing for you. One other thing to think about - you can actually use the SuperFilter as a preamp, either stereo or mono, so it's an alternative to the F-1X or F-2B if you want tone shaping and don't need the tubes or classic tone controls. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2665 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; studying pics of the fronts and backs will give you the layout differences like number of channels, effects loop, crossover, outputs, etc. And I believe it is the case that the F-1X has one tube while the F-2B has two. As for tone, an F-2B is scheduled to be delivered to my house tomorrow evening; I'll thus be able to A/B the two of them and give you a report. However, I'm supposed to be out of town some this weekend; so it might be a few days before I can get back to you. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2666 Registered: 5-2002 |
Following what David Fung said. The way my rig is currently set up, I never adjust the tone controls on the F-1X; they always stay the same. I make adjustments on the SF-2 when I change rooms and basses as needed. On the other hand, James (Malthumb) found that he didn't need his SF-2 and sold it. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1323 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks all! I can wait for your report, Dave. thanks in advance for the help. I dig my Eden rig as it is, but with the new Series and all the hubbub about Alembic pre's and the SF-2, my interested is peaked, especially considering each is regularly available used late-model for $450 or less. | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2005 |
Hey Kevin, Just looked on e-bay and there is a F-1X and a couple of F-2B's listed. One of each is offered with a $450.00 buy it now. Keith | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1327 Registered: 9-2003 |
Exactly! They spurred my interest when I saw them this AM. | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 264 Registered: 2-2005 |
Buy both!! :-) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1328 Registered: 9-2003 |
Exactly! | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2135 Registered: 9-2002 |
Tough I am not using my F1-X and SF-2 for this moment -had to sell my amp- I am a huge fan of the way they sound and work. My experience is that the sound I was always looking for can be made with those two things. I use the F1-X in Bi-amp mode and the SF-2 as a -and this sounds disrespectful- 3 channel "sound shaper". Beware: using the F1-X in bi-amp asks in my opinion for heavy powered speakers (which is NOT the same as playing loud as you know). As Moder Dave: I keep the F1-X settings and Tweak with the SF-2 depending on room and/or bass I am playing. Paul TBO | ||
| spose
Junior Username: spose Post Number: 47 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've used an F2B with my Series bass in my rig for 10 + years.. I run bi-amp without a crossover. I do have a crossover in my Rane DC24 dual band comp..but I prefer to use EQ to mix my high and low signals. It's true, the F2B does lack features like FX loop and DI..so I've had to add a DI to my rack and run my FX thru a custom looper (high signal only). I'm going to get an FX1 as well and set up another small gig rack to run my mono basses. BTW - I do jump channels on the F2B with my mono basses and run bi-amp without a X-over. It sounds fantastic! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2695 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well I received the F-2B and tried it out. The first channel isn't working. I've exercised the jacks and knobs some, but it hasn't helped. I'll exercise them some more later and maybe clean the jack some and see if that helps. I exercised the second channel some, which did clean it up; so the second channel is working fine. Here's my initial impression of the F-2B compared to my F-1X. The F-1X has more of a "clean" tone; the F-2B has more crunch. There is a susbstantial difference in tone between the two. The F-2B is also louder; I've had to back off on the gain control from the setting I use on the F-1X. And the midrange is stronger; I've backed off some there as well. At this point I haven't formed an opinion as to which I prefer. I still need to work with both for a while. Both are very nice. The thought has crossed my mind of putting both in the rack and getting an A/B switch. But it's a little early to be thinking about that yet; I still need to work with both units some more and see where I'm at later on. I have on gig on Friday; maybe I'll take the F-2B and see how it does with the set list and in the full band context. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1391 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave: Try cleaning the pots and switches with plastic-safe electronic spray cleaner with lube a la Cailube MCL or equivalent. I look forward to your take on the both of 'em. I wouldn't mind hearing about the SF-2 as well...BKBASS (Barry Kravitz)) has been after me to get one since he heard I took the Alembic plunge last year, LOL! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| gblick
New Username: gblick Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2003 |
One thing to keep in mind when comparing the F-1X and F-2B is that differences in tubes can be a large factor. To really make an accurate comparison, I believe you should have the same tubes in both units. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1395 Registered: 9-2003 |
That would be ideal...just remember, no tubes are exactly the same, even "matched" pairs. FWIW, there was an earlier thread here about what tubes to use in an F-1X/F-2B, which sparked a debate similar to which strings are best. It's all about personal preferrence...even the same tube will interact differently with the different circuit architectures of the two Alembic pre-amps is what I got out of that discussion. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2696 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; Alembic uses sealed pots, so spraying them with a cleaner wouldn't do anything. Gus; yes, the thought did cross my mind that some portion of the difference may be attributable to differing tubes. Perhaps someday when I'm really ambitious I'll open them both up and switch tubes. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1399 Registered: 9-2003 |
I didn't realize Alembic used Mil-spec pots. If they're noisy or intermittent, exercising is the only remedy, short of replacement. A little DeoxIT contact cleaner on the jacks may help. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2697 Registered: 5-2002 |
While I'm thinking about it, if I were to get an A/B foot switch to switch between preamps, what would I do about the outputs from the preamps? Do they need to be switched as well, or can they be joined with a Y connector before going on to my reverb unit? | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1400 Registered: 9-2003 |
You'd probably need an A/B for the outputs as well...probably not a good idea to sum the outputs with a "Y" cable. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2699 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Kevin! That's kind of what I thought; makes the idea a bit more complex than is practical. | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 122 Registered: 5-2002 |
Actually, the setup doesn't have to be that complicated - you split the input signal and feed both preamps all the time, then use the A/B switch between the preamp outputs. You don't want to run a tube *power amp* with nothing connected to the output, but this won't hurt a tube preamp. One thing that you do need to be careful about however is that you *really* don't want to have any switching pulses being fed into the power amp as they will lead to loud, speaker killing thumps (that's actually the way my pitiful attempts at slapping have been described). The dead channel in the F-2B might be a bad tube. I can't even remember what the inside of mine looks like, but there are multiple tubes and a failure of one of them may knock out one channel with no effect on the other. David Fung | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1420 Registered: 9-2003 |
Good point, David. They have buffered A/B amp switches (usually ABY's) that won't kill the amp or speakers when you switch. It didn't occur to me to "Y" the pre-amp input as it would probably unecessarily load passive instrument electronics, but probably wouldn't be an issue with Alembic's active stuff. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2710 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks David and Kevin! I'll keep it in mind. There are some relatively inexpensive A/B and A/B/Y switches on Ebay. Would these have the required buffering? Also, are these switches going to add appreciable noise to the signal chain? And thinks for the tip on the tube. If cleaning the jack doesn't help, I'll open it up and check the tubes. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2711 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; one other thing I've been noticing is that the F-2B seems to have more low end "warmth". | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1422 Registered: 9-2003 |
They should be good if they're similar to this one by Peter Frampton...switching transients will destroy drivers and amps! As with anything additional in the circuit, there can be artifacts added and/or signal subtracted. This particualar switch is actively buffered to avoid munging-up the sound, but it could add some noise. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1423 Registered: 9-2003 |
http://www.frampton.com/switcher.html Sorry, forgot the link | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1424 Registered: 9-2003 |
or this, by the King of The Realm, Pete Cornish: http://petecornish.co.uk/abcbox.html | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1425 Registered: 9-2003 |
I know, I know, I have a big *ss! LOL! I always seem to find the most expensive stuff, LOL! Well, I guess you get what you pay for. You may be able to get away with a cheaper one, but go to Sam's A** or Garbage Center and try 'em out...it's OK to blow-up their amps, LOL! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2712 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yes Kevin; at $379 it's not quite what I had in mind! | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1427 Registered: 9-2003 |
One of the less expensive models should suit your needs, just try before you buy...no sense roasting an amp or two or a bunch of drivers in order to save a few bux. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 123 Registered: 5-2002 |
Something like a Whirlwind Selector should do the job (seems like it should be less than $100) although even that is overkill. The main thing you're looking for here is noiseless switching. They do that by putting opamps in the box to buffer the signals, then the switch selects which input goes through. The main part is that the actual audio signal is not going through the switch itself (when it is, the thump comes from the chaotic moment when the switch is going from one set of contacts to the other). The bad part about these switches is that it's another thing that will require a battery or power supply, and another thing to go wrong. David Fung | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2714 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks David! It looks like those go for reasonable prices on Ebay; but then this might not be the type of thing you want to buy used. Another downside is that if I put it on the floor for convenient switching mid-song, then I've got a cable run of three long cables. It's $90 at Zzounds. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 785 Registered: 7-2004 |
I recently picked up a Wobo ABY. You have to plug it in ... no battery ... and it dosen't come with an AC adapter. I had one lying around, plugged it in, and so far so good. They just started adding a ground loop switch, so you might want to make sure you get one of these new ones. Heres a link: http://www.true-bypass-loopers.com/ Bill, tgo | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2716 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Bill! That looks like a nice unit. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2717 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bill; the ground loop switch seems to be a good idea. Ok; here are two simple questions. Looking at the Wobo information, all they talk about is one guitar into two amps. But for my purpose as suggested by David, running two preamp outputs into one reverb input, there is no reason why the Wobo ABY box wouldn't work, right? Simple question #2. In this configuration, I would not want to use the Y switch, since that would send the full output of both preamps into the reverb, right? | ||
| dfung60
Intermediate Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 124 Registered: 5-2002 |
Since this unit is a physical relay instead of opamps then operating it in "reverse" shouldn't be an issue, but it's best to ask Wobo about that. When the switching is done electronically, then the signal path really may be unidirectional (the input and output impedances won't like being reversed). The thing that you need to be careful about here is that the flipping relay is not that different than passing the signal through a switch, so you want to be sure that it's really pop-free. The pop comes as the physical switch is flipping - depending on what kind of switch they use, you have to worry that there will be an instant where there will be no signal to the output at all or there will be a moment where both outputs are connected together which may also make a glitch or pop. This is an issue when you're switching guitars or effects boxes between amps too, so I'm sure they have something figured out here. One way to reduce the thump is to put a big capacitor inline in the output which will sort of absorb the transient. That works fine, but will have the effect of changing your tone. All these boxes are sort of expensive enough that they don't want to just put the simple A/B function there, which is why they have the A+B function as well. When you parallel the outputs of the two preamps I doubt it will hurt anything under normal playing conditions but what will happen is the volume and tone may be unpredictable when they're both on (if it's a truly electronic switch, this shouldn't be an issue at all). I guess you can use it for the big bass jam at the end of the show before all your Alembics are smashed! David Fung | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2723 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hah!! Yes, the big jam where I smash my Alembics! No, my reverb unit doesn't want any more input gain than it's currently getting, so the only purpose of having both preamps on would be to combine the tones, not the volume. I'll keep all this in mind about the switch boxes and if I decide to try it I'll contact Wobo and ask them about reversing the path and about being pop-free. Thanks! | ||
| zuperdog
New Username: zuperdog Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2005 |
I use a Morley A/B box to switch between a direct line to my amp and an alternate that goes through a preamp and then into the amp. It is noiseless, and has worked flawlessly for me. You can either split or combine signals from it. Battery power: only for the "selected channel" light. Not bad for $60! I'm using this for guitar, and am not sure if it would act any differently for a bass with active electronics. Cheers! Rob | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2738 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Rob! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2748 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've carried the discussion of the bad channel on my F-1X here. |
