| Author | Message | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Intermediate Member Username: palembic Post Number: 116 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi gang! question, In the future I'd like to change part of my rig (kind of "split" it) in 2 components. I'd like to start using my old and confident SWR SM-400 as a solo-unit for smaller clubs and go for a rig with F1-X, SF-2 and poweramp. Are there any advices some can give about brands and use? One of the salespeople over here of a highly specialised audio-store said that question poweramp the most of them are really good. Differences in price are mostly marketing differences excpet for some very specialised materials used in the amp that in "musician" set-up you never hear but you will hear in studio-set-up. He showed me the V 3000 plus from American Audio (www.americanaudio.us) as a very good amp at reasonable price. He said also that sound is mostly defined by the quality of the peamp and the filter and for those I know the perfect adress ;-) Paul | ||
| Michael Delacerda (dela217)
Junior Username: dela217 Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2002 |
I guess that most of them being made right now are all really good too. I personally just don't care for the ones that you have to buy extra deep racks for. Granted they are only one or two spaces tall, but they are just too deep. My favorites are the 4 space units that are shallow and can fit into a standard anvil rack. My favorite of this bunch is one that I have been using for 25 years. It is a Crown DC300. It has been quite reliable. I have also had some others too, but I always come back to that old beat up Crown. I have used BGW, and QSC and Carver, etc... Just my opinion, don't get a deep one. | ||
| Derwin Moss (bassdude63)
Junior Username: bassdude63 Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2002 |
I too have heard many good reports regarding Crown power amps. I've personally used QSC and Crest power amps in the past along with my F1-X. They both did a great job. It's very important to take your bass, preamp, and speaker cab to a store that carries many different brands, as each brand has it's own sonic character. Best wishes, Derwin | ||
| Mark DuFresne (markus)
Junior Username: markus Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2002 |
Michael is right. Most of them are really good now. But when I used to really push the power through my speakers, damping factor was really important. The Crown K series was more than twice as good as the others. But its one of those blasted deep ones -- and a real boat anchor too. I have to carry it in a separate rack. Mark | ||
| Wayne McLemore (wayne)
Junior Username: wayne Post Number: 30 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've got a QSC PLX and love it. When I was shopping around, I contacted QSC about their amps for use with bass, and I got a reply from one of the designers who told me that they actually bought an F-1X from Alembic to use in the final testing of the PLX series. That sold me.... C-Ya...........wayne | ||
| Edwin Hurwitz (edwin)
New Username: edwin Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2002 |
I have to second the PLX praise. I just got a 2402 to replace my Mackie 1400. Not only is it 15 lbs lighter, it sounds much much better (and has a lot more power). When I brought it to my first gig last Saturday night, everyone commented on how great I was playing, but I think it was because they could actually hear me (or was it because I could hear myself?). Anyway, I unreservedly recommend this amp. Edwin | ||
| Joey Wilson (bigredbass)
Junior Username: bigredbass Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2002 |
Having worked around traveling concert sound systems, I tend to trust the same ones as the sound contractors: Crest, QSC, and Crown. My personal favorite for the most overlooked power amp that runs forever is what a LOT of people are using in gigs tonight: the Peavey CS800. Hartley's been building 'em forever down in Mississippi. He finally sold enough of 'em to BUY Crest last year! These things are the Ford pickup truck of power amps, and have been in continuous production with upgrades for over 20 years. The K series Crowns are just delicious for bass with a monstrous damping factor. The pro-series Crests are in a class by themselves. I wish I could be really 'old school' and run an Alembic preamp thru a MacIntosh power amp, but big Macs could be had a lot cheaper back then. It would be very intriging, however, to hear one with the discontinued Mesa Boogie power amp. Mesa's Bass 400+ is a terrific amp, and I'm a big Randall Smith fan. | ||
| gale barchus (gbarchus)
Junior Username: gbarchus Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2002 |
here's my 2 cents: damping factor is a critical factor for a bass player. You can buy powerful amplifiers today with a damping factor of 200. Compare those with some that have close to 1000 and you'll hear the difference. Not all watts are the same. But, don't forget tube power amps! I'm using a Marshall EL 34 100/100 with my F2-B. It's FAT! | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Intermediate Member Username: palembic Post Number: 119 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hello Brothers on the other side of the big water, thanks for all the input! Let's do a first round-up! Names coming through frequently are: - Crown K (and the DC 300) - Crest - QSC PLX - Carver - Peavey - Mesa Boogie. With an important side-remark that in fact evrey power-amp recommended by skilled PA-people will do the job as long as (when buying) bring the components of your rig to the store (F1-X, SF-2, speakers.... and Alembic bass of course) and see if things work out as they have to do! Well friends I'm going to visit some websites and see what can be done at this side of the "big water". Crown is imported but extremely expensive, the same for Mesa but that 400+ Power Amp but is not in production anymore (they are mostly for sale in music-stores). Crest and Carver are to find in the PA stores at medium price and I think Peavey CS 800 I'll find also in Music stores. QSC PLX I've never heard about. Guys additional ideas always welcome. I know also now that the first savings I have will be spend on the SF-2 (I can use him with the SM-400), than the F1-X and THAN the poweramp. So let's hum the theme of Indiana Jones and start this quest to new financial horizons... po-po-po-poooom-po-po-pooom! ;-) Paul PS: What's a damping factor? Can you explain that in plain english? | ||
| Matt Bulmer (prime)
Junior Username: prime Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2002 |
Anybody have any experience with the SWR Power 750? I believe it is the power amp portion of the 750x without the pre-amp. Matt | ||
| Valentino Villevieille (valvil)
Junior Username: valvil Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2002 |
Just to throw in a name nobody's mentioned so far... Ashdown tube power amps ( designed by Mark Goday, Trace Elliot 's design man before Gibson bought it). I am very happy with their tube line, and highly recommend it, particularly considering price/ performance...Entwistle's last rig...and Mark King's current rig as well...sounds very good with Alembics | ||
| carlos shilinsky (shilinsky)
New Username: shilinsky Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2002 |
also theres a peavey i think dpx1400, its small (just one rack space) and delivers 1400 watts,someone know about it? | ||
| Nate Pitts (cntrabssn)
New Username: cntrabssn Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul, have you considered Glockenklang power amplifiers? You already have a couple of their speaker cabinets, correct? If their power amps are anything like the rest of their gear, you probably won't be disappointed. I think you mentioned in another post that Glockenklang prices are more reasonable over there. Unfortunately, the gear is pretty expensive in the US. By the way, I use a QSC Powerlight 1.4, which works well for me into my Glockenklang Quattro or Bergantino HT112 cabs. Carlos, the Peavey amp you mentioned was tested in Bass Player magazine, though I don't remember which issue. The review was favorable, as I recall. Just in case, keep in mind that it requires a deep rack. - nate | ||
| Andrew Sisco (prons_bud)
New Username: prons_bud Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2002 |
Another name to consider is Stewart for power amps. I've had my PA-1000 (1 rack space, 1000 watts when bridged) for many years and it's been a real workhorse. I trade off this amp with my Aguilar DB 728 ( 400 watt tube mono block) I gotta tell ya, my SF-2 really wakes up my rig and multiplies it's versatility. Also, I was unaware that Ashdown made an tube power amp. | ||
| Matt Bulmer (prime)
Junior Username: prime Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2002 |
The Ashdown APM1000 Power Magnifier is a tube/solidstate power amp. Depending on the input mix you are able to utilize more or less of the tube amp section. Matt | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Intermediate Member Username: palembic Post Number: 121 Registered: 9-2002 |
Wooooops some info here! To Nate: of course I consider Glockenklang too. But my friends, even if they are less expensive here than in the US, they are STILL expensive. An example: I found out that a QSC-PLX 1202 is about 1000 € (let's assume that $ = €) retail price and the Glockenklang "Bugatti" (2x)300 is about 1 900€. The reports I got from friends and press about the Glockenklang are unanimously good to excellent. The problem I have is: do I have to spend TWICE the amount of money to something that in fact can be considered as a "workhorse" (i mean no offense with that) together with more valuable elements in the rig to come as the F1-X and the SF-2. I got an offer from Americanaudio for the V1500 who is also 2x300, 1 unit high and sells for 500€!!!! I start this discussion now not because I'm in such an urgent mood to spend the money but I want to be informed well BEFORE I make any move! Thanks a lot friends for sharing the info. Paul PS1: I'll check the Ashdown stuff too. PS2: Nate, I realize but recently that Glockenklang is REALLY high priced in the US. Brother Mikey (Pookeymp) tested the Quattro on my advice. He was knocked out by the sound but definitely by the price too! | ||
| gale barchus (gbarchus)
Junior Username: gbarchus Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2002 |
Damping factor is the ability of the amplifier/speaker system to control the movement of the speaker. The main effect of damping is to reduce the SPL produced by the loudspeaker's diaphragm moving because of its own inertia after the signal stops. Low damping factor can be perceived as "boominess." Speaker cables can affect damping. Please correct me, if I'm wrong. | ||
| Hartmut Engel (haddimudd)
New Username: haddimudd Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2002 |
I was wondering, what's the word on Mackie Poweramps? Since they seem to be mainly manufactured for PA systems I keep seeing them in ads being used for bass setups as well. Is there any reason to stay away from non-bass-amp manufacturers? Thanks! Hartmut | ||
| Paul Lindemans (palembic)
Intermediate Member Username: palembic Post Number: 128 Registered: 9-2002 |
Thanks Gale for the input. Is the "damping" factor something you can read from specs so you can compare? Hi Hartmut, I first went to see your bass again on the february 99 "custom-of-the-month". Man ...that's amazing. I hope you can handle that much guitar (no offence with that but ...an Almebic is already something to master but ...THAT Alembic ...wew). Until know I received an answer to your question from onde dealer over here in Belgium. He said that that for good and clear bass amplification you need power. Not necessary volume but "power". The new PA-amps (read power amps) used in dancings, studio's etc... are used to handle a wide range of tone, something you have also when you play bass. Certainly an Alembic because the tonal range in these basses (our basses!!) goes from a crispy high to a thunderous low. In combination with preamps (f.i. F1-X ) and EQ or filters (f.i. SF-2) and the right speakers you can have the whole tonal spectrum between them. I guess we don't really need the 3K-4K or 5K stuff but I've seen now the QSC-PLX 1602 and he delivers 2 x 300W with 8ohms and that fits perfect my Glockenklang spekaer set up. What I will BUY in the end I don't know yet. I'll keep you all posted. Paul | ||
| Hartmut Engel (haddimudd)
New Username: haddimudd Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Paul, Thanks for the answer. So where exactly does that put my Meckie related question? Does that mean that ANY non-bass-specific PA is top notch or rather just an average subsitute for what bass manufacturers do offer. From your answer I am tempted to even think with an Alembic we would RATHER get those non-bass-specific (man, what is the proper word for that?) PA for the full tonal range rather than one created for average basses in particular. I am still confused. Paul, regarding my double neck: It is not that hard to handle, to be honest. OK, it weighs (almost 20 lbs), so I am still keeping my eyes open for the perfect back-reliefing strap-system on this "cruiser" (I was thinking towards something hip attached rather than shoulder attached - maybe similar like a steady-cam harness as used in the film industry, only less complicated, but at least to put the weight to the hips and away from the back). However, in the practical world I am mostly playing the bass on my lap in a sitting position, and it is great for that! When built, many effort was made to reshape the body to a usable size without loosing the original character. I am amazed to say this double neck playes wonderfully in lap position, since the fretted 4-string neck is way up like I would use it for slapping anyways and the fretless 6-string is as low as is very comfortable for finger style. So it is not hard to handle this much guitar at all :-) and very nice to being able to switch between fretted & frettless during a song. Nevertheless, just to cover both extremes my next Alembic will be a small, small, small short scale. Don't ask me WHEN that will be :-) Thanks for your nice comment! Hartmut | ||
| Edwin Hurwitz (edwin)
New Username: edwin Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hartmut, I just upgraded from a Mackie 1400 to a QSC PLX2402. People keep telling me that I am playing better, but the reality is that I can finally hear what I want to hear for the first time since I quit using what I had before the Mackie (CM Labs). Mackie amps have a lot of positive qualities, but they really don't have what it takes to power a bass rig. Not only is the QSC 15 lbs lighter, it just sounds a lot better. It's an incredible combination with the F2B. Edwin | ||
| Hartmut Engel (haddimudd)
New Username: haddimudd Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2002 |
Thanks Edwin! That was very usefull info to me. Hartmut | ||
| gale barchus (gbarchus)
Junior Username: gbarchus Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul, Bass Player magazine did a "shootout" of 12 power amps (under $1500) about 5 years ago. Damping factor was one of the categories compared. Gale | ||
| Jerome Edwards (jerome)
Junior Username: jerome Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2002 |
I just bought a Crown PT1.1 and I love it. | ||
| palembic
Advanced Member Username: palembic Post Number: 395 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi friends, my original thread was in november 2002. This message just to say that I bought a Dynacord L-1000 poweramp. I heard the amp at work in non-bass situations and received a lot of good critics about it from the professional PA-people. It was not too expensive (about 600$) via E-bay. Alas ...it will take me some more months before I can give you all a "playing" report because the saving program for the F1-X is nearly finished except ...the F1-X is not found yet. (The SF-2 and DS5-R are "done"). I know I can work with the SF-2 alone and go to the Power-amp but (tss-tss) I'd like to work with the "complete" set-up. Thanks anybody who answered this thread. Paul PS: Dynacord is German. I heard it's in someway mixed up with Electrovoice. A sound-salesman I know over here siad bluntly: "for amps is Electrovoice and Dynacord the same thing" (??????) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 504 Registered: 9-2002 |
I started this thread and I will "end" this too. Yesterday-veneing I used the Dynacord L-1000 together with my secondhand F1-X on rehearsel. oooh-myyyy-go-oo-od! My brothers and sisters this IS great. I play in Bi-amp (crossover from the F1-X) and the sound is EXTREMELY thight and "direct". The set-up really matches well my Glockenklang speakers ("quattro" and "uno"). I'll start another thread as soon that I can post pictures of the complete "new" rack (well...euh..."new"...it's mostly second and third hand) and give you some experience feetback. May I thank you all for helping me. The F1-X is EXTREMELY simple in use and EXTREMELY nice in tone. Although the Dynacord L-1000 has "just" a "damping factor" of more than 300 (QSC has more than 500) I find the amp "quick" responding. Paul the bad one (and VERY happy) PS: about the Electrovoice thing: Electrovoice and Dynacord joined their research dep's. The Electrovoice amps are using partly teh Dynacord technology. |
