| Author | Message | ||
| lidon2001
Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 67 Registered: 4-2005 |
With the untasteful post added to my BalK's Showcase thread, I was just wondering what other group members felt about this. Rory wants to save thousands of dollars on his purchases, but Alembic has announced a second price increase in less than 365 days. Are the mom and pop Alembic dealers just going to fade away with everyone going to Bass Central and Bass NW? Does Alembic want this? Are people so tight with money that they won't support their local dealer or the one that helped them through their formative years? Am I crazy for trying to promote a smaller dealer that I have had great success with for 3 decades and therefore deserving of your mistrust and scowls? We all have heard about the Alembic instrument that sits around for years and the dealer then must let go for little to no profit. Is that fair to dealer? What incentive is there for smaller dealers to purchase instruments without buyers to help avoid this? How many players are there in Kent, OH that are knocking at the door to buy an Alembic? Am I wrong for pointing out to Adam that there are plenty of new stunning Alembics around at various dealers if he doesn't mind the standard spacings? Am I wrong to say if you live in Kent, OH, check out and support your local dealer? If you are all about money, which this capitalistic society we live in is all about - never for get that - then yes, the natural selection will take over and strong will overcome the weak, big sellers will cause the little sellers to fail (ever hear of Walmart?). I try not to support Walmart and try to avoid shopping there. I try to suppor my local shops because they, like me, are trying to eke out a living amidst larger corporations trying to take them out. I opened the MARS store in Milwaukee when I worked for them, and was there for the closing also. The local mom & pops survived this onslaught. I don't have the answers. How do they do it? (Message edited by lidon2001 on December 17, 2005) | ||
| the_mule
Senior Member Username: the_mule Post Number: 566 Registered: 1-2004 |
I respect you supporting a local dealer no matter what, but I also understand (and can really relate to) people who want to enjoy an Alembic or order their dream instrument who 'shop around'. Apparently it could save them lots of money. I personally am not even close to a position to purchase ANY new Alembic, and ordering a custom to my specs was, is and will be out of the question. A price increase of 21% in one year isn't something to be taken lightly. Although I love Alembic and believe them if they say it's necessary to uphold their standards, it literary means that a lot of people will possibly never be able to do what you did. Just a thought... Wilfred (Message edited by the_mule on December 17, 2005) | ||
| rockbassist
Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2005 |
I live 25 miles south of Boston and I have never found a decent "mom & pop" store in the area. The employees at these stores have had little or no product knowledge and have attitudes. Here are some examples of things that I have been told in these stores. "Gallien Krueger is out of business", "You can only use Ampeg cabinets with an Ampeg head", "Strap locks are a special order", and "Who is Alembic?". You get the idea. They also have a lot of crap in stock that I wouldn't even consider buying. I went into one store recently to purchase a set of strings. When the clerk rang them up I said "you know, Guitar Center sells these for $10 less". I wasn't looking for a discount, I was just pointing out the difference in price. His response was "Good, go to Guitar Center". I said, "O.K. I will", He said "you are going to drive 30 miles to save $10 on strings" and I said "No, I'm going to drive 30 miles so you won't have the satisfaction of taking my money. Believe it or not I have great luck at Guitar Center. I have gotten to know the assistant manager very well and he always takes care of me. I just wish I didn't have to drive 30 miles to get there. I wish there was a good locally owned music store but I've been playing for 30 years and the best family owned store that I have ever found is Caruso's in New London, CT, Unfortunately, it's almost a 2 hour drive. | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 277 Registered: 2-2005 |
I think there are times just to let a subject drop and this subject is one of them. People buy the same items from many different places for all types of reasons. This is not a situation where one person is right or one person is wrong. All that continuing this conversation will do is generate bad feelings as each person tries to prove they're right. We have enough real problems that energy should not be wasted on this. I've said my piece and will now relinquish the soap box to gentleman across the isle. Keith | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 811 Registered: 7-2004 |
I can see both positions. If the difference is $50-$100, as referenced in Valentino's post, then it seems a little tight to play dealers off of each other. If the difference is $1000, it makes more sense, though I suspect the $50-$100 difference is far more common than the $1000 difference in prices among different dealers. If I understand Tom's point correctly, he is not only concerned with the $, but also with, for lack of a better term, the "Karma" surrounding his bass and its purchase. I can easily relate to this. I will often pay a little more to help support local businesses competing with the giants. I'd rather go to the one-store coffee shop than Starbucks, for example. Finding a merchant with whom one can develop a long-standing relationship (like 30 years!) is a rarity in these times. Such a relationship should be appreciated and not walked away from lightly. There are undoubtedly some perks that go along with repeat business. I suspect, for instance, that Tom has little worry about shipping. His prior relationship probably makes him very comfortable in knowing that the bass will be packed and shipped first class and, if anything did go wrong, resolving the problem would be fairly simple. IMHO cost is an important factor to consider, but not the only one. Let's face it, if we can afford these instruments in the first place, $50-$100 isn't going to break us. Bill, tgo | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 321 Registered: 3-2004 |
Money has and always been a touchy subject. I spend a boatload on gear because my obligations are to me. No wife , no kids, no pets. I often work 6 and 7 day weeks and no one ever hands me anything. I bought my 1st Alembic in 83 from Ash on 48th street. I was making about $4.00 an hour. I ordered my first custom in 85. I was making about $5.00 an hour. I tried using a local dealer in my town but he was unwilling to even try a discount. Mica referred me to Washington Music for my other purchases. And the purchases have continued with used at stores and from individuals as well as customs to as late as last week. I offered a guy $150 more than he was asking because I respected him and knew that a Rouge 5 in great condition with a case was worth more than $1600. Some dealers want to develop a customer base others wish to rape and run and wait for the next body to sell crap to. Whatever an individual wants to do with their money, don't judge them. Your morality is your morality. Does owning a Series 2 make one more of an authority? I own 13 Alembics but Rami owns many more. Does it count? Are we really supposed to care? Please just enjoy your instruments and allow those who have dreamt of theirs attain theirs on their terms if they can. This is why Mesa Boogie and others don't allow discounting on their products and they don't go on sale. A small amount of money might just make the difference in affordability for many folks these days. Why do you think all the major chains do no interest for a year or more? (the only reason I picked up a used Essense 5 from Ash). Less pain is less pain! Danno | ||
| j_gary
Intermediate Member Username: j_gary Post Number: 157 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hi Tom, I feel your pain so to speak. I do understand Rory's thought process as money represents a limited commodity, our time. I have come to look at any exchange that causes me to lose money, as stealing the time it cost me to earn it. As such I do not enjoy wasting any. That being said, when it comes to spending money on a love or passion, I find the process as enjoyable as the result. The Alembic experience in general has a lot to do with sharing the passion with likeminded souls. There are many fine $1000 basses around, but where do you find an environment like this? This place is full of people, builders & buyers & players and admirer's,that share a common love of finding or producing the "perfect" bass. We go on at length about the smallest detail with earnest and interest that would drive most players screaming into the hills. ( Hmmm...I think I hear screaming as I write ) Nowhere else can I read, learn and meet people as I have here. Because of the people and the resulting basses, I feel comfortable enough to ante up and become an Alembician. Folks pay dearly to join country clubs to play golf, or to drive a Ferrari. I believe they do so in an effort to meet and enjoy likeminded souls. ( And chicks, sorry gals) As to your dealer concern Tom, I would think that the typical(?) Alembician would seek out a kindred spirit to purchase a bass from with price a secondary concern. It appears you did, and I know I did on my three Alembic purchases. All three came from this site, all three a pleasure to deal with. The basses were expensive, the experience, priceless. (more screaming) I bought from California, drove to the middle of Indiana, and half way to Chicago from Detroit to purchase my Alembics. Right past a large store in Michigan that had Alembics sitting on display, and had little time for my relentless pursuit for information. I think any dealer who understands the Alembic audience, and is willing to work with it, will survive and thrive. The price shoppers will keep all honest and aware. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 275 Registered: 11-2003 |
It's obvious we all have our very deep rooted thoughts on this subject. Like a lot of folks here, I too avoid chain stores, restaurants, etc. They're too much the same to make any experience with them memorable. As a cook, I believe food is more than just mere sustenance. It is the sharing of an experience, of love (and yes, every time one cooks for another, it's all about love), of family, of friends. When I cook for folks, I don't want them to say "that was good;" I want them to leave saying and thinking "life is good." Same goes for Alembics. Regardless of how or through whom one acquires one of these fine instruments, the experience is the same - life is good. For me, I've bought two basses (one Alembic, one Pedulla) through Bass Central (my Entwistle replica Exploiter is on the way), my Dragon's Wing through Willies American Guitars in MN, and finally, my Essence through Conn-Signment Music in Raleigh, NC. None of these stores are retail giants. In all three cases these dealers had what I wanted and at a price I was able and willing to pay. I got what I wanted, and life is good. In the end, that's all matters. I have purchased things from Guitar Centers over the years, but they've been few and far between. Every time I've gone in there I knew that on average, the experience would be less than stellar. That's OK though. If one knows that going in, there are no false expectations created. I don't expect, for example, that the average GC associate will know how a Q filter works on an Alembic. I do expect they should know how the active electronics work on a Musicman Bongo. If they know anything above that, well, that's a bonus. In the future, I will patronize small businesses at every opportunity. It's due to my pursuit of unique life experiences rather than the mass produced, ordinary, it's-the'same-everywhereness we find in so many places these days. The way I see it, I can buy a Fender just about anywhere, and they'll pretty much be the same. I can't say that about Alembic, and for me, that makes the purchase of an Alembic worth the price, regardless of dealer. My two cents, Alan | ||
| serialnumber12
Advanced Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 308 Registered: 12-2004 |
Let's remember, Alembic started out as a very small mom & pop guitar repair and modification shop in a san francisco alley (competing with major guitar makers)and took a gamble on producing their own guitars and almost did'nt survive,..but word got out that this 'small company' had some "Goodshit",thus began orders for these things called alembics and here we are today!........so i say support the little man cause he's gotta eat too. | ||
| matthijs
Junior Username: matthijs Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2005 |
If I might chime in as well. I can understand the thing about friendly neighbourhood music stores. I like to have some sort of relationship with the person who works in the music store I buy stuff from. However, when it comes to prices, there is simply not enough money in my bank account to justify buying something big (like an alembic) even 10% more expensive than need be. Being true to a friendly shopkeeper is alright if you have the extra money to do so, but if I have to save for some time to buy an instrument I will take any discount I can get. The thing with Alembics is, of course, that the prices are higher than the instrument is worth purely based on quality and sound. You pay for the name, which is not a bad thing by the way. But this means that for a working musician who wants that alembic tone any discount is simply a way to get the price more in concurrence with what it is actually worth as a tool. This is why I will never (even if I have the money) buy a new Alembic because the price (for what it delivers as a musical tool) is simply too high. Thank god for Ebay  (Message edited by matthijs on December 18, 2005) | ||
| beelee
Intermediate Member Username: beelee Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2004 |
I would prefer to deal with a small mom and pop music store or any other small business, but they are becoming less and less since SA and GC moved in, however, if I want a certain item or product and they don't have it, I have no choice but to go somewhere that does or go online to get it, if possible I like to try things out before I buy them (especially an instrument) but sometimes there are exceptions and I have taken a chance buying things on Ebay and have been extremely blessed and lucky and purchased some beautiful instruments that were new, in mint condition or very close to it. ( a Tobias Pre-Gibson Basic 6, Hamer B-12a, Michael Kelly Dragonfly 5, Conklin GT-7, Guild Ashbory (NOT DeArmond), Modulus Fretless 7 prototype, Zeta Crossover EUB, Alembic Exploiter w/ Factory Kahler Trem, Alembic Series I five w/ SII elect, 10 & 12 String Chapman Sticks and a Carvin Bass/Gtr doubleneck) no stores in my area had ANY of these instruments for me to try or see with the exception of the Conklin GT-7, Alembic Exploiter, Guild Ashbory and Zeta. Being that I bought them out of state I did not have to pay sales tax, but shipping so I saved some $$$, I am not rich and if I can wheel and deal to save some bucks I'll do it. I also have 7 more basses, 4 which I purchased brand new, 1 from Manny's, 2 from GC, 1 from Superbass, the other 3, one was from a local ad (used), one from NJ Guitar & Bass Center (used) and the other from the Groove Shoppe (also used). I just recieved my new Alembic a week ago, its unbelievable and over the top and after 25 years of playing its the first instrument I've ever had built for me. I was lucky to buy it before the 15% price increase this year ( I NEVER thought I would EVER spend that much on an instrument, someone might think I'm NUTS, but you only live once and it was worth it) I used it at a show last night, it sounded and played Phenominal. I may never buy another new one like it because I won't be able to afford it ( maybe ) and I have so many beautiful instruments already, I bought them not as a collector but to play them and have used all but 4 of them on many gigs. Before ordering it I spoke to Val and got the October Specials at the last minute, and he advised me that they would send qoutes out to up to 3 dealers of my choice, so I had them sent to Bass NW, Guitar Resurection and Superbass, I did not tell any of the Dealers about each other or discuss each one's quotes, just waited for the emails to come back and went with the lowest one, which was from Steve Frank of Superbass ( THANKS Steve for the unbelievable deal on my dream bass !! ) plus again buying out of state NO SALES TAX, there is no way anyone could have given me the deal Steve did. its funny the used Series I fiver I bought once belonged to Steve from Superbass and I didn't find that out till after I ordered my new Alembic from him, that one was on Ebay and it either didn't make its reserve or no one bid on it at all, so I emailed the seller which was Ed Huggins from (Bass World ?) and called Susan to inquire about the bass ( cause of the price, to verify the bass and cause I was buying it from someone I did not know site unseen) I called Ed and he put Steve on the phone to answer any questions, ( years later I didn't remember talking to Steve that day) the bass came and it was most excellent !! unfortunatly Ed and Steve are no longer in the Alembic dealer business. enough of my babbling on................. So support the little guy..........but you have to do what works best for you and what you can afford (after all it's YOUR money) , there's nothing wrong with shopping around for the best deal, saving some bucks ( we all could use to save some $) loyalty is good too, but if I go into any store and they have an attitude, are unhelpful and have no clue or can't help me, I have no choice but to go elsewhere as its in my best interest. (Message edited by beelee on December 18, 2005) | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 810 Registered: 4-2004 |
ive only had 2 experiences with alembic dealers nj guitar is a joke.... i placed my order for the direwolf with superbass- whos has retired.. steve is a one man boutique.. he didnt have the lowest price... but i felt most comfy with him and he nursed me through the process and interceded only if i called him to speak with susan, my tribute order went to beaver at bass central based on susans recommendation..i didnt even shop it...i spoke with beaver, felt good about it and that was that. the best i can suggest.. as a salesman.... dont let $$$ make your final decision for you. pick the best dealer who you feel or know will work for you i paid more to steve and was glad i did.. when is a bargain a bargain??? | ||
| kilowatt
Junior Username: kilowatt Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2004 |
I would love to always support the local guy ,but that is not always possible. I have to agree with Flax about NJ Guitar & Bass. When I started my custom 5 string, Susan sent my specs to several dealers and NJ Guitar & Bass never even responded! I spoke to the big 3 dealers, and although all helped my with my questions, I felt Beaver at Bass Central went above and beyond to earn my business. He was not the lowest price, and as many others have said before, $50 or $100 should not make the final decision. Comfort with the dealer should. Val told me my bass should finish calibration and be in my hand sometime around Christmas/New Years. I can't wait!!! Hope all have happy and healthy holidays and a new year! Pete | ||
| worldfamousandy
Junior Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2004 |
When I bought my '76 Series 1 in '88, I was 19 years old. I played the bass at a local music store, and instantly fell in love with it. I had no idea what it was. I put it on lay-away, and paid the $1200 over 6 months. That bass was purchased as an important tool for me. Of course, I soon became aware of the rich legacy of Alembic. I gig with my Alembic 3-4 times a week. It sees smoky bars, outdoor wedding receptions, second-rate "sit-in" musicians, beer splash, cold drives in trailers, blood, sweat, and everything else a working axe may be exposed to. In spite of it all, it plays and sounds great every time I pick it up. That's why I have an Alembic. Once a week or so, I clean it up, and it could be be a museum piece. It's not going to be, though, because I can't resist playing it. It's evolved into a virtual extension of my hands, and I am not interested in replacing it with anything less valuable (or more valuable, for that matter). The analogy between basses and cars is a good one for me, since I grew up near Detroit. I feel like a working mechanic, with a passion for beautiful performers like Ferraris. I work on them every day, but I'll never be able to buy a new one. I've got an old one that's in good shape, though, and I drive it every day. I drive because that's why I got it. So long as I continue to to work in my chosen field, I will never make enough money to buy a new one. That's fine with me, though, because I'd rather tinker with mine every day than change careers and buy a new one that would only get driven on weekends. Someday, I'll get another used Alembic. It will probably be another Series 1 four-string, but this one will be fretless. I will probably buy it used, probably off of Ebay. New Alembics are for people in a different situation than mine. I don't disrespect anyone because they have greater means than I have (most of my clients fit that description), and I love to dream about what my custom bass would look like. However, it's important for me to be realistic. For me, trading basses will involve a deal between myself and another person. I doubt GC or SA or the Mom and Pop store will be involved. | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 261 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hey Guys It seems somehow in someway I am being accused of not shopping at little stores or not supporting local business. What I said is I shop for the best deal and the last I checked in America on planet Earth it was okay to do so. If I get the best deal from Joe Blow from Cocomo then that is cool with me. If I get the best deal from some superstore that is okay with me as well. I am not looking to put anyone out of business just find what works for me. A little story for you guys! When I was getting my second custom I contacted 4 stores, some based on the recomendations of others on this site. Let's call them store A,B,C and D. First I called store A which is local to me and got a quote on a certain instrument and thought I should be able to get a better price than this. I then called store B in Las Vegas and the price went up by about $100.00 or so. I then called store C who I had chatted breifly with before and who came highly recommended by a lot of you. Not only was he higher but he was much higher than store A because he was not offering the Cocobolo special which at the time was worth about $1000.00. Not only was this person rude and obnoxious but very unprofessional as well. After several e-mails from this child like person who I would not cross the street to spit on if I saw him on fire! I decided to call one more store,Store D. Store D, not only informed me of all price breaks they also talked to me about value so that I could make an informed decision. So had I gone with store C first the third store I called I would have gotten taken for $1000.00 more if I didn't know that Alembic offered monthly specials. I hope this sheds some light on why shopping was good for me. I don't expect anyone to change the way they do business because I choose to look around for the best deal possible. I also understand and appreciate that you choose to conduct your business in a way that makes you feel good, however there is more than one way to do business and there is more than one way to feel good! The reasons that I didn't give store names is because the experience I had was obviously unique and I didn't feel like I needed to try make this business or person look bad. This situation was kept private not at the request of Susan but she applauded my decision to be a gentleman concerning the issue. I just took my business elsewhere! For the record we are talking a lot more than $50.00 to $100.00! | ||
| s_wood
Intermediate Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 166 Registered: 5-2002 |
I bet Beaver at Bass Central or Chad and Evan at Bass NW would cringe at being lumped in with the larger dealers! To be sure, they sell a lot of Alembics, but they are both bass-only retailers which means that they automatically lose out on something like 90% of all music store business. Whether or not a dealer sells a lot of Alembics is, at the end of the day, a function of how aggressive he/she is about it, which in turn is directly related to how much he/she loves Alembics. My choice is always to do business with the knowledgable fanatic, if you know what I mean. Here in Delaware (USA) I am about 50 miles from a very successful Alembic dealer called B & B Music. They don't have a web site worth looking at, and the store itself is in the middle of nowhere - across the street from a huge corn field and next to a used car lot. There's no obvious reason why this "mom and pop" retailer should sell lots of Alembics all around the world - but they do. Why? Greg, their bass salesman, loves Alembics, knows a lot about them and always keeps a bunch in stock. Any decent-sized retailer with a similar passion and commitment could do the same thing. | ||
| lidon2001
Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 68 Registered: 4-2005 |
When I say large, I speak of numbers of Alembics sold. I have no clue as to the number of Alembics sold by any dealer. It just seems from most of the posts here Beaver and crew moves many Alembics. I just find it wild that Rory wants to equate 30 years of loyal patronage with picking up a telephone receiver, pushing ten buttons, and asking for a quote. I remember Susan doing something very nice for a loyal customer of hers for 30 years. Maybe Rory feels he's deserving of that privilege as well for his ten cent phone call. Well, pay phone calls used to cost that much. This new feeling of entitlement that is so prevalent in America these days is very unbecoming. It has now reached the Alembic board with regard to prices. I don't think it's strange to find that some Alembic dealers save their best price for their best customers. They should, just like Susan did. I guess Rory and others would prefer Alembic and its dealers to use a one price for all method like the US auto makers. Do they forget that Vipers and GT350's were not included in the pricing? I can only assume Uncle Bob's and Alembic did something nice for me for my 30 years of loyal patronage to Uncle Bob's. So for their kindness, and the joy they gave me, I purchased two more instruments. Obviously, Beaver has a great business model. Accomplished pro player, royalty income, low overhead in the swamps of central Florida, and plenty of Fodera customers that are willing to pay outrageous sums for a mediocre bass. This allows him a bit more room on margins it seems, to the benefit of those Alembic customers looking for a good price quick. I added BassNW and Resurrection in Austin for Adam because I've had the pleasure of visiting those dealers and they welcomed me with my interest in Alembics. Adam should add B&B and the other dealers mentioned favorably in this thread. It makes the dealer search that much more fun. I say take Rory's comments about his $1k quote nonsense with a grain of salt. Check out Six String Sensation in the COTM archive. Another happy mutli-Alembic Uncle Bob's customer. Good prices can be had there. I joke on Ed Roman, but I really respect those comments from members that have successfully dealt with his company. I'm sure a reasonable price could be had at Roman's and all Alembic dealers listed if you put in the right effort. And if you're lucky, pathetic as it is when compared to my method, pushing 10 buttons may be all you have to do. And I still say support your local Alembic dealer, even if it's just for strings. Every little bit helps. In the end, they all do it by hard work. The real American way. Since I don't want to go back Elaine's showcase (that's ok she's right in front of me), bring on Pele'. Can the peanut gallery, you know who you are, please leave the less than thoughtful comments out of that thread? That thread is meant to be a celebration of what will be a pretty unique instrument. I promise plenty of continuing praise for Uncle Bob's and Alembic. And don't ask what it cost. That's bush league (you’re ok Adam, no problem). And I ain't telling. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 276 Registered: 11-2003 |
Wow. Rory - I don't blame you one bit for pursuing the purchases of your Alembics the way you do. It's a free country, and we all can choose what we wish to do with our money. You wanted the get the best deal for what must have been an important reason for you. Nothing wrong with that at all. I don't think anyone's equating customer loyalty with price shopping. They are simply two methods to an end, namely, the acquisition of what just about everyone here feels are the finest bass guitars (and guitars) on the planet. Some feel better about the experience via price shopping; others feel customer loyalty to a particular dealer is the way to go, price be damned. So be it. I agree with Tom that we should support small businesses when we can. I feel they make, on average, the purchasing experience that much more personal, something I feel is woefully absent in America these days. For me, it's something I look for when considering the purchase of any major item, and an Alembic is one of those. This is why I chose Bass Central for my custom - my experiences with Beaver and crew have been stellar, and I have no reason to believe they won't continue to be so. Foderas as mediocre - I've never played one, so I can't comment. I do know that there are those who believe that Alembics aren't worth it, over priced, sterile, etc. I don't agree, but that's their opinion. Victor Wooten uses a Fodera, and he's a monster player. There must be something good about Foderas that he likes, or else he wouldn't be using them. And no, he's not using them simply because he's an endorsee now - he began playing them years before he became famous. Calling one bass mediocre and another stellar is a bit unfair, I think. We all have our favorites, and they work for us. Other brands work for others. In the end we all get what we like and make music. That's all that really matters, IMHO. I also think most businesses tend to reward, if such a term is appropriate, repeat customers. They know if they treat that customer right, he/she is more likely to return when shopping for a like or newer item. When it came to my custom, I didn't shop anywhere else. I'd had a good experience with Beaver and crew, and felt that the price I would be quoted would be reasonable (which it was). Could I have save a few bucks by price shopping? Maybe. Speaking only for myself, I would rather spend a little more to get the kind of service I get from Bass Central than less to get a lower level of service. And I feel great about the purchase. Again, in the end, that's the bottom line. My two cents, Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 813 Registered: 7-2004 |
All right, let's take this thread in a different direction. There is, of course, another all-American buying strategy that could be applied to Alembics. It is the one that the government would undoubtedly use should Messrs. Bush, Rove & Cheney ever desire basses. Forget customer loyalty, forget shopping around, just buy 'em from Halliburton for $250,000 per bass. Monthly specials? Ha! We don't need no monthly specials! Bill, tgo | ||
| rklisme
Advanced Member Username: rklisme Post Number: 262 Registered: 5-2004 |
Hey Guys I want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Enjoy your family and friends and may all your Alembic dreams be good ones. Rory | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1504 Registered: 9-2003 |
Amen! Happy Holidays to all! Wow, and I thought I started some sh*t when I posted my first thread RE: Alembic pricing/discounts, LOL! Alan: You forgot about your Europa iV from Uncle Steve. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| serialnumber12
Advanced Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 312 Registered: 12-2004 |
And just think!,,,,,alembic started out with one peice of "fire wood log",the wickershams had to decide should we burn it,or create a new guitar with it!........ | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2003 |
Kevin, Sorry I missed the Europa! So many Alembics .. so little time! Bill, Seeing as I'm currently deployed, I can second that we should just go through Halliburton (KBR is a subsidary and has contracts for just about all the support here from what I can tell). Of course, we'd all need to buy stock in them first in order to be able to acquire funds to buy a $250K bass. Alan | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 688 Registered: 6-2002 |
Alan, I think that by buying stock you're helping the seller(s) of said stock to acquire funds. | ||
| gtrguy
Junior Username: gtrguy Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2004 |
So many viewpoints! All I know is that I enjoy seeing my Elan 6 go up in used value everytime there is a price increase on new Alembics! A guitar is worth what someone will pay for it. But then, I am not a purest. I also would not buy a new Harley for 20K, since to me, no motorcycle is worth that kind of money. However, if everyone thought that way, no new Alembics (or Harleys) would be built! Merry Chrismas!! | ||
| rockbassist
Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2005 |
This is for Keith H. Keith, I have to take some offense to your posting about letting a subject drop immediately after my posting. If my posting appeared to be in any way confrontational, I certainly didn't mean it that way. I was simply stating my own experiences with "mom & pop" stores vs. chain stores like GC. I also did give kudos to Caruso Music in New London, Ct, whom I have dealt with many times in the past 20 years. The fact is that I have such good luck with Guitar Center in North Attleboro, Ma that I sometimes drive the 30 miles just to see what they have taken in trade, even if I am not looking for anything in particular. This is how I found my first Alembic. In fact I hadn't seen an Alembic in over 20 years. I walked into the store looking for a Modulus and found an Epic 5 string which I immediately purchased. I recently called this GC because a head that I purchased in 2003 started making a strange high pitched squealing noise. They exchanged it no questions asked even thought it was out of warranty. This is the kind of customer service that I am looking for regardless of price. I have since bought another Epic from a private seller. I realize that Epics are not the "top of the line" Alembic but they are better than anything else available at half the price. I have run into some resistance from other players though. I have a friend who used to work for Pedulla. When I told him that I bought an Epic he said "Oh a bottom of the line bass". What a moron! I auditioned for a band and the lead guitarist was playing and LTD. He asked me why I was playing a Mexican bass! When I showed him the Alembic website, he almost had to change his underwear. I have also experienced some discrimination from Alembic users who have said "Oh, you don't use a Series"! For the most part I have been well received in this forum. When I bought my Epic I posted a message the tone of which gave the impression that I was apologizing for owning an Epic rather than a Series. I received many emails and responses welcoming me to the club and praising me on my choice to purchase an Alembic. I love my Epics even if one came from Guitar Center. The intent of my posting was not to discourage anyone from buying from a locally owned store. I was simply stating my own personal experience just as we all do. | ||
| worldfamousandy
Junior Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2004 |
As an aside: I have not had good luck with Bass Central. I always feel like Felton is trying to make me pay for the priviledge of dealing with a celebrity. He always tries to charge me list price for things like effects and cabs. When I call Bass NW, in comparison, they always offer me a good deal from the start. I prefer that situation to the uncomfortable negotiation that seems to be the norm at Bass Central. Perhaps it's my yankee accent... | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 278 Registered: 11-2003 |
To sum up this thread: Some folks like "mom and pop" stores; others seek the best deal regardless of dealer. It works for them. Bottom line: Buy from the store and person that makes you feel comfortable with the purchase. No explanation to anyone here or anywhere else is necessary. And I'm spent, Alan | ||
| 2400wattman
Junior Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2005 |
Now let's go play some damn music gentlemen! | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 279 Registered: 2-2005 |
Tom, I am sorry you took offense. Yes I did think this was a confrontational update. You did not appear happy with some of the comments in your Showcase thread and continued that tone here. From my experience with other forums that is the makings of a flame war. This is one of the few groups where flame wars don't happen and folks generally go out of their way to stay civil and friendly. As I said there are many different reasons that people buy things from different places and one is not better than another. Again I am sorry if you took offense as none was intended I was only trying to maintain the civility of this board. Keith | ||
| glocke
Member Username: glocke Post Number: 85 Registered: 9-2002 |
Good subject... At one point in my life I was happy to support the mom and pop stores. That point was when money was not so much an issue for me as it is now. Like many on here probably do I live paycheck to paycheck, and I have to literally watch every dollar I spend. Some weeks ten dollars mean the difference bewtween being able to pay my bills or overdrawing my checking account. As a result I have to shop where I can get the most mileage for my money. If guitar center or an online retailer can get me strings for ten dollars cheaper than I will go there as opposed to the mom and pop store down the street.. Overall, it has been my experience that for the most part all stores are buyer beware. Everyone is out to make a dollar, you really need to know what youa are looking for BEFORE going into any store. As for the Alembic price increase and its impact on the mom and pops and future buyers, I dont see how the mom and pops will be able to sell these with places like bass northwest and bass central out there. Also, with two price increases in the space of a year, I see the custom alembic of my dreams slipping further away from me. That being said, if a price increase is what is needed to keep Alembic in business making what are probably some of prettiest looking and sounding instruments around, than I am all for it. I'll either just have to take a second mortgage out for the custom of my dreams, or keep an eye out on the used market for one that is clsoe to what I want... | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1511 Registered: 9-2003 |
I'm not sure this is a real issue for the small dealers. While Steve over at Superbass was totally comfortable with the HUGE discount (he claimed to have made plenty) he gave me on my Custom Alembic order, Beaver at Bass Central said there was no way he could do a similar discount. There were other dealers who courted my business (all of them bigger than Superbass), including lower priced ones. Since the Dealer cost is fixed, I imagine it has to do with overhead/profit margins. Superbass is/was a one-man show operated from a residence, and Bass Central is a big store with a staff to support. Regardless, I went with who made me feel the most comfortable, not who gave me the lowest price. Yes, price is an issue...but not at the expense of crappo customer service. There is a balance there that is certainly achieveable and does exist. I found it before, and in the absence of Steve, I believe I've found it again. I firmly believe that price and service are not mutually exclusive. As long as I am treaty fairly, I reward those who take care of me with repeated business and recommendations to buy from others. To each his own I say. I've got a GC gift certificate in my wallet for a year now...their pricing, selection and quality are sorely lacking IMHO...they never have what I want, including small sundry items. Just my $0.02. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 2845 Registered: 5-2002 |
Kevin; I'm guessing that to say Superbass was/is operated from a residence may be inaccurate. I'll drop you an email. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1513 Registered: 9-2003 |
Dave: Just going by what I understood directly from dealing with Steve personally. What I should have said was that his store address was shared with his residence. His storefront has used and new basses and is manned only by him. I didn't mean to infer it was operated out of his bedroom. If I've offended Steve or anyone else, my apologies. (Message edited by kmh364 on December 20, 2005) | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1514 Registered: 9-2003 |
FWIW, Steve may be relocating and may or may not be resuming business in the future, from what I understand. Only time will tell, but I can only hope his retirement is temporary. He is exemplary to deal with and just a plain nice guy. I have dealt with some good people, but none finer IMHO. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1515 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks for keeping me on my toes and honest, Dave, LOL! Prost! Kevin | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 844 Registered: 4-2004 |
wow this is getting hot! i think what be left out of this equation is the tone of the "buyer" on the phone.. not treading anywhere to insult anyone been a salesman for 30 years, i KNOW whos shopping and i know whos buying.i can hear it in the voice. as an fyi- b and b came REAL close to getting the order on direwolf..again not the lowest price but they answered my emails and took time with me on the phone. Superbass got the order as i felt- 1- he was genuinely interested and sounded excited about my custom and in my business and getting it right for me and 2- kevin recommended him and i didnt know kevin from a hole in the wall at that time but he was nice enough to answer my dreaming thread... having learned this the hard way- its not what you say its how you say it and when it comes to email? cripes- its all in the mind of the reader... all things being equal and now that susan has taken the play out of it, by limiting the discounts available, i knew what my tribute bass (aka jtb) was going to cost. this ia a very special bass for both myself and alembic and i have been very fortunate to visit alembic twice and go over my order and get it "right" beaver came recommended by susan and i was not fool enough to go anywhere else if the president of alembic says jeff i think you should work with beaver on this one. beaver hit the number i knew worked without the least bit of negotiation. bass central has done 3 favors for me since i ordered the tribute bass only one of them monetary. so i am comfortable with them. i hope that all of you find this kind of comfort level with your alembic or any other seller no matter what you are buying...i am in the mortgage business and i can tell you i have seen more borrowers shoot themselves in the foot trying to save a buck than you can imagine because rates went up during the time they were trying to save $10 a month on a mortgage.ends up costing them $20 more. and please we are all friends in here.. nothing should ever be taken personally... | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 532 Registered: 9-2002 |
Just my two cents (I'M JOEY WILSON AND I APPROVED THIS MESSAGE) ALEMBICs are specialist instruments. Any of us who have been here for quite a while realize several things: As well as I THINK I know these instruments, it only takes a week or two before I see one on EBay, in the Showcase, the Featured Custom, and I think 'wow, I never thought of that'. And I obsess about these axes all the time. So I truly think it would be rare to call someone at a store who knows them even half as well as I do, and I've got a lot to learn. Why do we all wind up calling Susan when the time comes to put the saw to wood to come up with our dream bass? The dealers that stock them are by design independent businessmen (NOT chains) who desire to add the very best to their portfolio of products. Whether they be the bass-only stores, the big or small local stores, whatever, it was a conscious decision to offer these extraordinary instruments. But of course this includes the attitudes of these entrepreneurs AND their employees, and like a cross section of any business segment, this is gonna run the gamut from a true enthusiasm to indifference to a used-car lot mentality. We'd all agree ALEMBIC stands behind these instruments like no one else, but you can't expect them to attitude-adjust every soul that comes into the transaction cycle, nor educate them past whatever their enthusiasm level is. That's where we come in. It's up to us to find a dealer we can feel warm and fuzzy with, or whoever will give you the best deal, or whatever floats your particular boat. And as customers we're all different. I always have to laugh at somebody who'll walk for a hundred bucks on a five to ten thousand dollar purchase, but that's just me. And whoever the dealer is, it's up to him to charge whatever he thinks he needs to make on a given item, and it's up to you to decide if it works for you. And there's always a certain number of used ones floating around that can be had for much less than new, and they're often in great shape. Maybe that's not a way for those of us who want something REALLY custom, but it can work for a lot of us. The price increases are a fact of life. And the best always costs more. And you have to remember value in this: New LP Customs list for almost 9 grand. Anybody out there think it's an equal value to a 9 grand Alembic? Personally, whatever they think they need to charge to continue their business AIN'T none of my business. This would all be more simple if these things were turned out like sausages like Fenders and Music Mans. But that would ruin them, so I'll glad they're not. The best always takes longer, there's less to go around, and it always costs more. J o e y | ||
| rockbassist
Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2005 |
Again this is for Keith H, First of all, you addressed me as Tom when my name is Kevin. You also made mention of a post that I did not make. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you may have been trying to contact another member and that is fine. I was not trying to attack anyone. I was simply stating my experience at "Mom & Pop" stores versus chain stores. Basically what it all comes down to is there are good and bad sales people at every level. It doesn't matter if someone works at your local mom & pop or at Guitar Center. The bottom line is that we as musicians owe it to ourselves to do our homework and research products prior to walking in to any store so that we can tell when a sales person is full of shit. This is how I found my first Alembic. I walked into a Guitar Center that is 45 miles away from me. I know the assistant manager very well and he knows that I do my homework prior to making a purchase. I bought an Epic for $750. I realize that it is not a Series but it was a great deal none the less. I have since bought another Epic for the same price. The bottom line is do your home work and buy what ever it is that will make you happy. I love my Epics and wouldn't trade them for anything including a Series bass. But that's just my opinion. | ||
| keith_h
Advanced Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2005 |
Sorry Kevin you are correct when I saw your post addressed to me I had confused it with someone else. However my initial post on this thread was never addressed to you or your update. Keith | ||
| jlpicard
Advanced Member Username: jlpicard Post Number: 302 Registered: 7-2002 |
It's obvious to me from reading these posts that a major purchase is a very personal thing. In the case of something like an Alembic, there is a very subjective, highly emotional component to the purchase. Not the easiest of situations to reach a consensus on. Therefore I say, agree to disagree and leave it at that. You cannot know all the factors involved in someone elses decision, ie. financial, personal, familial, or even musical so why are we all trying so hard? We should all chill, and rejoice in the fact that all of us in this club, in our own way, have found the path to a place in this short life where we have been able to afford an Alembic. However we each managed it, I say Bravo, and Happy Holidays! | ||
| rockbassist
Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2005 |
To Keith H, That's what I thougt. Anyway, my point is that it doesnt' matter what you buy or where you buy it. If you like it, PLAY IT and BUY IT! Like I said before, I have met players who have never heard of Alembic or have looked down on them. I have met Series players who also looked down on Epics and I have met players who were amazed that I played Alembic. It really depends on what you are brought up on. I have said this before. I don't care if my Epic is a "Top Of the Line Alembic" or the bottom line is as long as it has the feel and sound of an Alembic and I like it, it is worth buying. I like Epics much more than Series basses that I have played. They have a more natural sound than Series basses do. I love Alembic because we support each other regardless of whether we play Epics, Series or anything in between. Alembic is Alembic plain and simple. I wouldn't trade my Epices for a Series anyday. |
