| Author | Message | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 57 Registered: 3-2004 |
My new Schroeder 410 cabinet is being built today and shipped to me Monday. I bought the Schroeder because of the sound, it's power handling capabilty, and its weight (60 lbs.). I can't wait to get my hands on this! I use an F-1X pre, and QSC power. I notice that since I last bought a power amp, they have gotten a lot lighter. Has anyone used the new QSC PLX amps? I'm thinking about a 2502, which can deliver 2500W into 4 ohms, in bridged mono mode. My new cab will handle 1400W RMS, so I think this is probably the appropriate amp for me. Any thoughts on these amps, or other options? | ||
| kilowatt
Member Username: kilowatt Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2004 |
Andy, I run a very similiar rig, and all I can say is that the PLX series is fantastic. Light weight and powerful make it a great choice. When my band does a split bill with some friends of ours, we always use my rig, and their bass player just can't believe the power and sound of the Schroeder/QSC/Alembic rig. Pete | ||
| crgaston
Advanced Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 222 Registered: 11-2005 |
While the PLX doesn't have quite the same pure a$$kicking thump of, say a Crest CA9 or Crown K2, it is SIGNIFICANTLY smaller and lighter. I use a PLX 2402 and am quite happy with it. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 667 Registered: 10-2002 |
I use a PLX2402 with my eden navigator and it's the happiest I've been ampwise since I started playing. Graeme | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 912 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hey Graeme (or anyone else with Navigator experience): I use a PLX2402 with an F1-X and SF-2 and have been very happy. I can definitely endorse the PLX's for great sound and light weight. On another note (please excuse me if this is a hijack - I'll move to another thread if so): I guess I'm just getting itchy, but I've been reading up specs and reviews on the Navigator and wondering if the particular features might make it even better than just the F1-X (I don't think I could part with the SF-2!). Any thoughts or recommendations? Bill | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 459 Registered: 2-2005 |
I use a Navigator into either a Bag End ELF then into a PLX 3002 or the Navigator straight into a PLX 2402. I also use a 2402 in my PA. I've been very happy with all of the PLX'es. I expect that the new PLX2 series will be just as good as the older PLX line. Keith | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 668 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hi Bill. I compared the Nav back to back with Mike Pisaneks F1-X and they're pretty similar in tone when run flat. There is however (IMHO) a greater scope for tone manipulation with the Nav. The output section also appears to be more versatile, - You have the option of running in 'stereo' mode or, switching to Bi-amp mode, you can sweep the internal crossover to direct lows and highs to different amps/cabs. The only thing I don't use is the 'Enhance' function which I feel is a weak point on the amp. That said, it does have a very good compression circuit missing from the F1-X aswell as a mute button - controllable from the footswitch. There's also a turbo boost on the footswitch that adds 10Db - I believe more recent models are limited to 6Db which shouldn't scare your guitarists as much as mine does;-) One thing to consider is how you'd plug in a series bass - the navigator only has a single mono jack input. Graeme | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 913 Registered: 7-2003 |
Thanks Graeme: That was sort of the impression I had developed from the various sources seen and heard. The EQ on the F1-X is pretty rudimentary while the EQ (if that's all you'd call it) on the SF-2 is "interplanetary". I'd definitely never let go of the SF - it's the only thing that can do real magic when needed or desired. But more capable basic tone shaping and a decent compressor in the same unit may be something I want to try. Hey - I can always go back, right? Unfortunately I don't have a problem with where to plug in a Series bass, since I had to sacrifice mine to the gods of college tuition (a worthy swap). Thanks a lot for the input. Bill (Message edited by bassman10096 on June 05, 2006) | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 58 Registered: 3-2004 |
This power amp debate has me re-thinking things. Is the Crown K2 the best-sounding amp for bass, regardless of weight? I don't want to sacrifice sound at all, I was just thinking that there may now be something out there that's lighter and sounds as good. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2401 Registered: 9-2002 |
Heyho! To brother Keith! Since I am continuously looking to get a new poweramp I checked the possibility of the new PLX's too! I went for the (old) PLX 3002 at first. The new ones are divides in the very light PLX2's and the PLX4's. The PLX4's have th eformer whieght and the 2's are only HALF that one! Although ...but ...but (there is ALWAYS a but) ...the PLX2's have a LOWER DAMPING factor as the PLX4's (and the old PLX-serie). IFF (if and only if)I was good informed over the years being member of this jolly club of good hearted wacko-bass-nuts the REASONof the PLX being a "must buy" for us low frequency riders is the fact that the poweramp must be FAST! Teh damping factor of >500 speaks for that. The PLX2's are not reaching that factor, I think only >200. As you all know I am a technical moron but it is something I always look at when checking out power amps for bass. THAT and its wheight seen my spine problems! Paul TBO | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1916 Registered: 9-2003 |
FWIW, don't get hung-up on specs. SOUND should be your guiding factor. As a life-long hi-fi nut, I can tell you unequivocally that, in my experience, specifications tend to have little, if any, correllation to the actual sound of a piece of audio equipment. Great specs., in and of themselves, do not guarantee great sound. Let your ears be your guide. 'Nuff said. Cheers, Kevin FWIW, I have a PLX3402 for use with my F-2B and SF-2. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 405 Registered: 2-2006 |
I would weigh another factor in here Andy. Where are you using the power amp the most, i.e. on the road or playing locally. I love Crown power amps, to me they sound the best and have the most head room. BUT when I was on the road I would only use QSC, (or in the 80's CS-800 peavy). Crowns are great but very expensive and time consuming to repair, (or at least they were when I was traveling), QSC on the other hand are less expensive (or where in the 80's and 90's0 I'm a little out of touch since retiring)and can be repaired and sometimes even replaced much cheaper and faster than Crown. The same applied to speakers for me. I ran in town nothing but JBL & Hartke(Guild) but on the road, Blackwidows only. You could fry a Blackwidow on Friday night have it reparied while you wait and be jamming Saturday night all for about 40 bucks (80's money here), not so with JBL or any other brand for that matter. All in all though I agree with Kevin let your ears be your guide. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2402 Registered: 9-2002 |
Oh ...let there be no misunderstanding about the ear-thing! Just: back in time I was amazed by the concept "fastness" for an amp! It took some time to understand and see what it stands for. And above all: ...I could hear it! Paul TBO | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 60 Registered: 3-2004 |
Yeah, I generally don't pay much attention to specs, either. I understand what they mean, but I prefer to simply hear the whole thing. The problem with me looking for new gear is my geographic location: Wyoming. There is no place within 500 miles for me to go hear these things, and shipping is spendy on an item like a Crown K2. Sometimes, I order several models of things like pedals and other light items, and send back all but the one I liked. No big deal for pedals, but it's another story for power amps! I do travel to play gigs, but it is normally in Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. The region is not exactly known for an abundance of boutique audio shops. I try to get as much info on sound as I can prior to ordering. That's why I trust all of your opinions so much! By the way, I got that Schroeder last week, and I gigged with it 3 times so far. This thing sounds incredible, and it is capable of insane volume, if that's what you're after! www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 735 Registered: 10-2003 |
Andy, I would be surprised if you couldn't find examples of several of these amps up in Bozeman. Back in the day Craig's Pickin' Parlor carried all the good stuff... John | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 407 Registered: 2-2006 |
Andy, I checked out your web site, nice site! A very impressive group of photos in the friend section. I too am an "underwater" bass player. Nice photos there too. And your personal quote is also one of my favorite scriptures, Proverbs 17:28. Peace, Olie | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 825 Registered: 9-2002 |
I personally would not attempt a Navigator + SF2. I'm a big Eden fan (this METRO stack in the corner makes me mighty happy). The EQ was obviously thought out by someone who REALLY thought about it a long time, and the Navigator has more than this. But I would shudder to try and send the complex Q these front ends can deliver through an SF2. I definitely believe that less is always more and the moderate tone control that the F1X offers is plenty to contemplate sending through the SF2. I think it will be a long time before anyone EVER duplicates this piece in terms of what it's capable of while not changing the phase relationships. The BigRedBass (soon to be the BigRedFatBass, the FatBoys are on the way ! ! ) at first was a real mind-blower as it's a Spoiler. What the hell was I gonna do with a vol, tone, QSwitch, and pickup selector? Where's the bass, mid, and treble cut/boost? The balancer? Well it turned out that I could do more as it was just so right to begin with. So I didn't need much. I run the METRO virtually flat. IT doesn't need much (especially sitting on top of its 115XLT cousin). And yes, I NEVER use the Enhance, either. It all really makes me think of a Series straight into a power amp straight into a cab. I was knob-crazy for years, now Ron's really broke me of it. Having said that, I'm sure I'll go hear somebody this week that's playing through a very long chain and think it sounds just as good. Crazy, ain't it? J o e y | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 408 Registered: 2-2006 |
I have an Eden Metro Combo. SOunds good but I have had some problems with it. I bought it new when they first came out and have twice had to have it repaired and now for third time it needs to go to the shop. The same problem all three times. A long slender, looks like a balast resistor, comes loose then breaks and has to be replaced. If I could solder worth a flip I would fix it myself. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 467 Registered: 2-2005 |
Looking at the Metro channel 2, it appears to have the same tone controls as my Navigator. I find them quite versatile and agree that trying to add an SF-2 would probably make the whole setup unmanageable. I have enough problems with what is there. I have found that I keep the controls close to flat and at their mid-range settings. Unlike others I do use the Enhance somewhat. I keep it set around 9 - 10 o'clock and then use the footswitch to turn it on or off. I use it much like the Turbo Boost for when I want that little bit extra (my controls don't go to 11 :-) ). Keith | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 678 Registered: 10-2002 |
I've yet to find a use for the Enhance button. Regardless of it's position, I find it thins out the tone and adds unwanted distortion. Graeme | ||
| bassman10096
Senior Member Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 918 Registered: 7-2003 |
Joey: Your point may be well-taken about not wanting/needing to add an SF-2's twists and turns to an already refined signal. I've also heard a lot of folks who don't use the enhance button on the Navigator, too. I have no hands-on experience with the Navigator to know, but, Jeez - you're more than likely right. I have learned, time and again, that simpler is usually better. I guess I may have to try things out and see. Thanks. Bill | ||
| elwoodblue
Junior Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2002 |
...speaking of damping factors...(fastness), does anyone know how the numbers are affected when running a SF-2 (damping factor turned up) ,with a 'fast' power amp? I just bought a stewart world 2.1 and am in sonic heaven : ) thanks to all the good advice here... k | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 936 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's a different kind of damping factor - I seem to remember reading that this control on the SF-2 is similar to a CVQ control on a Series II bass. When talking about power amps, isn't damping factor something to do with how the amp keeps a handle on the current flowing back from the speakers? Sorry for the vague recollection ... | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1197 Registered: 3-2004 |
Okay, so I'm thinking about a power amp too. I'd like to go with the PLX2-1804 to save a couple hundred dollars and 8 lbs in the rack over a PLX2-2502. The extra money and weight buys you some useful filtering, dual mono from a single source without a jumper cable, and some output flexibility. Then there's the difference in the specified damping factor. I'd like the subsonic filter protection and wonder about the import of the damping factor in practice. Other than that, I'd order an 1804 this week... The older 2402 model definitely looks like a bargain right now, but I don't fully understand the differences between the PLX and PLX2 lines. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 471 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bob, Call QSC to see what the differences are between the PLX 2402 and PLX2 2502. I found them helpfull when I was looking at my PLX 3002. Given the closeout prices for the 2402's my opinion is to go with it. It has the built in limiters, filtering and paralell inputs of the 2502. Keith | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1198 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks Keith. I think the 8 lbs might be more important to me if the damping factor is a non-issue. | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2004 |
The only thing that keeps me from looking at the 1804 is the inability to run it bridged mono. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks, Olie. That's quite collection of basses you've got. So...Who are the girls in that photo? Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 434 Registered: 2-2006 |
Groupies man....groupies..........NOT!. They are actually the DOS XX's girls. They were on the beach in Progresso, MX. My wife took the photo.;). I have 2 daughters older than them! | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1201 Registered: 3-2004 |
I don't care about bridging the 1804 as long as I can run one side alone for small gigs. 900 into 4 is plenty of juice for me. Fot a two cab gig, you just add a jumper cable to tie the two channel inputs together. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 547 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bsee, how did you get on with the PLX1804. That is the amp I'm looking at getting. Like you 900w is plenty for the gigs I do. Any more than that would be big venues and pa to shift the bass to the public. I just want to run 2 mesa boogie cabs a 2x10 and a 1x15 both rated at 600w. Via the F-x1 i want to run the top thru the 2x10 and the bottom through the 2x15 so am will use the l & r channels to do that. Why would you need a Jumper cable if you were just using one cab? can't you just run one side of the amp and turn the other down and run the cab on the fx1 full range output? If i sound slightly ignorant on the component bass setup. I am just getting round to this type of bass rig. Jazzyvee | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1289 Registered: 3-2004 |
I didn't. I am currently using the power section of my iAmp800 and it's working just fine. My comment about the jumper cable above was for a two cab situation where you hang a cab off of either side. If you're only running one cab on an amp that doesn't bridge, you have to run one side and turn the other one down. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4266 Registered: 5-2002 |
JV; are your Mesa cabs 8 ohm or 4 ohm? | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 548 Registered: 6-2002 |
Both my cabs are 8ohm Mesa Powerhouse cabs. My existing amp is a Mesa walkabout 300w which is fine and not had any problems with it sound or reliability. In fact I've never been in a situation where I needed anywhere near the full volume of the Mesa. I'm taking the opportunity now to upgrade my rig so I can get the best quality, not neccessarily more volume, I can afford for my bsses. I've won an F-X1 on ebay which is on its way and I already have an SF-2. I guess till i get a power amp I could just go into the power section of my mesa amp. Jazzyvee | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 747 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jazzy. Does the Mesa have a preamp-in socket? I've only ever come across amps with a pre-amp out. Graeme | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 550 Registered: 6-2002 |
It has a send and return so i presume i can connect the alembic stuff in there. THat is where the sf2 is now. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 750 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jazzy. I've just been checking the mesa website and that looks like it's the effects loop in/out. According to their manual, the return socket comes in between the pre and power sections so you can indeed plug your f1x into it to access the power amp directly. I learn something new every day;-) Good luck with it and let us know how you get on Graeme |
