| Author | Message | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 464 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've been on this forum for a few years and what has come to my notice over those years is that. It seems that Alembic guitarists seem to hold on to their instruments more than bassists. I presume there are many more alembic basses out there than guitars, but taking that in to account, the trading of guitars here over the past 3 years or so pales into significance compared to basses. The same seems to be the case with alembic instruments appearing for sale on E-bay. Is it that guitarists are more satisfied with their instruments than bass players? There are many stories of people selling their basses here and then searching for them years later to it back... Why do yo sell up? | ||
| grateful
Intermediate Member Username: grateful Post Number: 140 Registered: 12-2004 |
As long as I am physically able to play, my Further will never be for sale! I honestly cannot imagine a better guitar. (I never imagined a guitar could be SO good before having one!) Mark | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think the reason we low enders tend to trade or sell more often is we tend to start out at the lower end of the Alembic spectrum per se, e.g., we start out with an Epic, or an Excel etc. We get bitten by the Alembic bug, and begin to search for an even better example. For example, my Alembic story is this: First Alembic: '84 Spoiler-Exploiter ... sold for '03 Alembic Spyder then I added, in order ... '03 Alembic Europa ... then ... '04 Dragon's Wing ... then ... a '91 and '92 Essence (OK, kind of going backward ... but .... In the queue: a Custom Series II John Entwistle Replica Exploiter (Spyder) So as you can see, I kind of upgraded each time (with the exception of the Essences, which, BTW, I love). I think most guys here do the same, or they buy an upgraded version of the model they prefer, e.g., Europa with Series II electronics. Anyway, that's my take. Alan | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know if I would agree with the notion that we bass players are less loyal to our Alembics. Speaking for myself, I am pretty fanatical about my Alembic basses. When I hear a bass line in my head, what I hear is the sound of an Alembic Series bass playing the line! | ||
| s_wood
Advanced Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 215 Registered: 5-2002 |
I don't know if I would agree with the notion that we bass players are less loyal to our Alembics. Speaking for myself, I am pretty fanatical about my Alembic basses. When I hear a bass line in my head, what I hear is the sound of an Alembic Series bass playing the line! | ||
| spliffy
Member Username: spliffy Post Number: 71 Registered: 3-2003 |
no less loyal or disloyal compared to my other basses. I think as bassplayers we are more particular about our sound so as we develop our skills, sound and our ears we adjust accordingly, where guitar players tend to go go deaf after cranking their rig up to 11, and then they cannot hear the difference... KIDDING!!!! I suspect for bassplayers we change bassess as that is key to our sound where guitarist tend to change their stomp boxes, amps etc whick is key to them. OK basically I have no real clue, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night : ) | ||
| spliffy
Member Username: spliffy Post Number: 72 Registered: 3-2003 |
no less loyal or disloyal compared to my other basses. I think as bassplayers we are more particular about our sound so as we develop our skills, sound and our ears we adjust accordingly, where guitar players tend to go go deaf after cranking their rig up to 11, and then they cannot hear the difference... KIDDING!!!! I suspect for bassplayers we change bassess as that is key to our sound where guitarist tend to change their stomp boxes, amps etc whick is key to them. OK basically I have no real clue, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night : ) | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 207 Registered: 3-2004 |
Well, I had two Alembic guitars that are both gone now, but have retained my SF-2. So I suppose I am an example contrary to the norm. I always assumed that there was a greater trade in the basses because that is what Alembic is primarily known for. I suppose it also doesn't hurt to have had Stanley Clarke and Mark King as well as many other notable personalities endorse them, versus the comparatively smaller number of well known guitarists who use them. (Message edited by hydrargyrum on June 16, 2006) | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 299 Registered: 4-2003 |
I've only owned two Alembic basses and never at the same time; the first was used to trade up to the second. I would trade again for the right reasons, for another Alembic. I think that's a fairly common theme demonstrated within the club and in many respects can be construed as owner (sic. product) loyalty. When you compare the number of options and variety available to bassits to guitarist, it's understandable that there would be more bartering activity for the low end brethren. I'll resist the temptation to double post ;) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1203 Registered: 3-2004 |
I think it may be the opposite in terms of true loyalty. Since I got my hands on an Alembic a few years back, I haven't played another brand. Well, maybe to try someone else's bass for a few minutes or to noodle in a music store, but not for real. I am not sure this is the norm, but it seems there are at least a few others like me. I think our guitarists are more likely to have a Parker, PRS, or Strat along with their Alembics. Is this so? -bob | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 839 Registered: 9-2002 |
I'd think that it's just the difference in the markets. Bassists are a LOT more open to new things (witness the huge difference in the number of 'boutique' bass builders vs. the number of boutique guitar builders), and it's not uncommon for some guys to go through a lot of different designer basses. An ALEMBIC guitar is a LOT different than most other guitar choices. But then on the other hand, there's guys like me for whom there is nowhere else to go: Depite the fact that there's some nice axes out there, I'd buy them while keeping my ALEMBIC. Why? Because not long after I got it, I'd notice the same pickups, hardware, and tone that every other builder uses that are the usual 'off the rack' hardware: The motorcycle equivalent is all these 'custom' builders that get everything out of an S+S Big Book, screw it together, and announce they're in the Custom Motorcycle Business. That's why it's real hard for me to get real excited about the other top basses: They all use EMGs/Barts, ABM/Gotoh bridges, etc., and they all mostly sound alike. Plus, after the friends I've made at ALEMBIC, aside from the occasional pawnshop find, I wouldn't dream of spending serious money with anybody else. They've almost adopted me and I bought a USED Spoiler that didn't put a dime in their pocket! So, hell yes I'm instrument loyal, because they're just so customer loyal. Stand behind their work? I've never seen anything like it. I think we forget just how arrogant ALEMBIC could be IF that was their mindset. There's a lot of high end products in this world where their reps just drip icewater in your face if you're not famous or wealthy (maybe we could hold a contest . . .). Or just for the everyday world: Try calling Fender and tell them you have a problem with a 70s bass, you're the fifth owner, and see how far YOU get! I know I carry on about this, but I truly feel this way. J o e y | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1394 Registered: 7-2004 |
Actually, there are quite a few guitar boutique builders, but, unfortunately in my opinion, most of them think a boutique guitar is either a tele or strat copy built by a small company, or a Les Paul copy with some kind of engraved metal on top. I suspect that guitarists are more likely to use multiple instruments (and therefore more likely to own multiple instruments) than bassists. For one, there is less need for a bassist to have a backup instrument at a gig - how often do you break bass strings? (yes, I know it happpens, but not nearly as often as a guitarist breaks a high E or a B string). Also, it is far more common to see a guitar player use several instruments during a set, whether for different tones, to get tax write-offs on all of them, or just to be "cool". I don't recall seeing too many bass players changing instruments with each song. Besides, when we die, whoever has the most guitars wins, right? LOL As for the personal touch we get from Alembic? This company is my musical soul mate. 'nuff said. Bill, tgo | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 844 Registered: 12-2002 |
Instrument Loyalty to me is like being married to your Main axe & never been seen holding another in your arms.......almost like the Wife.....but I do consider my Other bass to be my girlfriend though, inwhich i will ocasionally go over & give her some every now & then. it's like cheating on my Alembic. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 475 Registered: 2-2005 |
I think it all boils down to the personality of the owner. There are those folks that acquire things and tend to keep them throughout life. Then there are those that acquire things and then let them go. From my personal experience I would tend to say most of the guitarist I've known are of the second type. I can also say the same for most of the bass players I've met. I think both types continue to search for themselves within the context of their music (of which the instrument is an extension). Some maintain their roots and grow from them by keeping their past close by. Others grow by moving on and re-establishing their roots in new area. Neither is better that the other. They are just different paths to the end of the journey. Back to the original question. I don't think you can judge loyalty by the number of basses or guitars sold or resold. You need to base it on the what replaced the sold instrument. This is the only way to cover both types of musicians. For me , I'm of the first type, that means I have not bought anything other than an Alembic for my past three basses. I still have all of my previous basses and still play them (albeit not very often). For those of the second type many here appear to replace their Alembic with another Alembic. I will echo what's been said before. I think my preference for the instruments has as much to do , if not more, with the folks building them as with the instrument itself. Keith | ||
| u14steelgtr
Junior Username: u14steelgtr Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2003 |
As far as I know Alembics expertise is limited to "solid body guitar” style instruments. Specifically they build guitars, baritone guitars and bass guitars. To be fair the “Classico” upright bass is on the product list but I have never (to the best of my knowledge) even heard one of these instruments on a recording much less live. Alembics are HiFi solid body instruments and as such Alembic instruments are in many ways a niche within a niche. What genres of music have widely adopted HiFi solid body (non-Bass) guitars? My over-simplified answer to this question is “few to none” but this is changing. I am primarily a guitarist and have been since the mid 1970’s. Beginning about 3 years ago I began migrating toward being a serious pedal-steel guitarist also: but this is recent history. Bear in mind that the following statements are based upon the prejudices and perspective that come with being primarily a guitarist for a long time. It has been my observation that people that are primarily bass-guitarists tend to own fewer instruments than people that are primarily guitarists. Among people that play both of these instruments the tendency is to own more guitars. Bass players tend to have 4 to 8 basses including both acoustics and electrics. Guitar players tend to own 8 to 16 guitars including both acoustics and electrics. I believe that this is primarily because guitarists choose a wider variety of instruments because different genre’s of music call for a wider variety of instruments which have intrinsically distinct acoustical and tonal properties. The majority of the genres of electric-amplified guitar are rooted in mid-fidelity or low-fidelity amp/speaker sound and tone. I own many guitars but only 2 bass guitars: an acoustic and an electric solid body. The bass guitars are: 1. Tacoma CB10C 4 string for playing acoustic. 2. A Schecter 5 string Model-T (a P/J style) solid body. I have not yet explored fretless bass or slap-style bass so these 2 instruments allow me to play Bass in all of the styles of music that I want with the people that I choose to play Bass with. Guitarists on the other hand… we choose to play very different guitars for different styles. The assortment of guitars which we may choose to play in our chosen styles of music may include: * Tuned plate archtop * Non-tuned plate carved archtop e.g. pre WW2 Gibsons * Single coil solid body * Parlor sized flat-top * Classical * Jumbo flat-top e.g. J200 * Pressed-plate or laminated-plate archtop e.g. ES-5 or ES-345 * Resophonic, * Banjo-guitar * Piezo or other transducer-type pickup acoustic * Humbucking style solid bodies * Alembic HiFi * Flamenco Until at least the late 1960’s Lo-Fi and Mid-Fi was the only thing we could buy off the rack. By the end of the 1970’s higher fidelity instrument electronics and pickups were available. The FRAP acoustic guitar pickup and Alembic instruments (both California based by the way) come to mind as poster-children for this change. On the instrument-amp front Peavey comes to my mind as the poster-child for higher-fidelity combo-amplifiers. During the 1980’s the HiFi Bass got a lot of visibility and was adopted by a substantial number of musicians. This coincides with the wide availability Bass-guitar specific rack based HiFi component systems. Much of the guitar world is to this day still infatuated with poorly shielded pickups and LoFi instrument amps which yield harmonic distortion percentages which go in to the double digits. The HiFi solid body electric guitar is a newcomer which has been slow to gain a following. HiFi solid body basses gained a substantial following 20 years ago. The guitarists that purchase Alembic guitars are and have always been purchasing an instrument which is in a class by its self and were as the French say “avant garde.” So when we get an Alembic guitar we are getting an instrument which is even within musical subcultures considered far more obscure and esoteric than an Alembic bass guitar. Goodness I did not intend to go on about this for so long. But at least it is good fodder for further discussion. Regards -- Eugene | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 466 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey I'm loving the responses to my initial thread question. It's very interesting. I'm primarily a guitarist and it's only since I got my first Alembic in 2002 that I really took my bass playing seriously and too the public. Throughout my musical life I have only "Lusted" after 2 guitars. A good Strat and an alembic Like Stanley Clarke has. I have looked at many strats over the years and although I could have afforded one at many times during my career. I didn't because, each one i tried out didn't feel "Right" for one reason or another. That was until I tried a Strat Ultra in 1992 whilst on tour in USA. It had the new fender lace pickups and interestingly "Importantly" an ebony fretboard. Needless to say I bought it from a store in Florida and got it trade price as the owner was a big fan of the band I was in at the time. It's a lovely instrument. Relative to other strats it sounds very hi-fi, and until I had got my Alembic Orion last winter, I had not played or heard another electric guitar that sounded as clear or was as versatile as the Ultra. But then I'd never heard an alembic guitar e3ither. I bought the Orion guitar off a german store on E-bay last winter and it was a model that alembic made for them in 1995. It had been in the store for 10 years unsold. You can imagine the smile on my face when I found that out. Since I've had it thats all I've used on live gigs. The difference is very noticeable. Going back, i bought my first Alembic in 2002 which was an Alembic SC,Deluxe which I was then and still am in love with. I then bought an Europa 5 last summer which again is a different sounding instrument but absoulutely fantastic in every way. I really can't imagine buying another model of bass or electric guitar in preference to my alembics. I really would love to try a top of the Alembic range electric guitar like a series I or II with single coil pickups. If I was able to buy one I'd like it as well as my other alembics rather than instead of any of them. My past record for selling off instruments is really poor and shameful. ( I find it hard to do.) lol Whilst I am curious about Fodera basses, they aren't really hanging around in any music shops here in England to my knowledge. Just after I bought each of my alembics I tried to sell off it's predecessors ie. a musicman sterling bass and a maple neck usa strat. But the price that was offered was so low that it was insulting to see a quality instrument go for such a low price. In actual fact in the past I have given instruments away rather than have them suffer the indignity of a paltry second hand value. Right time to get back to doing my gardening. Thanks again for the responses. Cheers Jazzyvee Ps: have you tried an alembic guitar in an acoustic guitar amp? Do it.. its fantastic when used direct and clean, it sounds authentically acoustic electric. | ||
| paulman
Junior Username: paulman Post Number: 30 Registered: 2-2005 |
As a guitarist, I have to say the Alembic was something I have been striving for since I found out who, and what they are throught the Grateful Dead. I still have most every guitar I ever purchased. I sold my two Jay Tursers ( I know, booooo) 'cos they were just eye candy, didn't sound good compared to the FIRST Jay Turser I bought (best sounding guitar I had purchased in 15 years, before the Alembic). Every guitar I ever had I modded, frankensteined and screwed to get the "good sound". Never successful, but came close sometimes. However, through this very forum I picked up a 2002 Skylark (thanks Kevin!) for a steal. THAT was my moment when I realized that the "all the way" sound was never there before. My Band mates get PISSED when I play anything else 'cos they can hear it immediatly. Now that I have the Further, they get pissed when they see any other guitar case at rehersal, but relax when it's the "Other" Alembic (Skylark). I guess my point is that I have sentimental reason for keeping my Axes. The crap ones I have no attatchemnt to and will let go with no second thoughts. My first guitar, guitars that girlfirends bought for me etc. Heh I played a slide solo at a bonfire party last year, then threw the guitar (crap action was 1" off the board, hence slide) then threw it in the fire still plugged in and ran to the Alembic on stage, and continued the solo hee hee. I keep what I like, or what brought me to this point. Short of having the ultimate Alembic custom, my "Signal Generator" is complete and now I'm focusing on the rest of my rig. Look what I found! http://cgi.ebay.com/Alembic-F-1X-preamp-OSC-power-amp-Korg-Tuner_W0QQitemZ7422622695QQihZ016QQcategoryZ121159QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 2407 Registered: 9-2002 |
Though I can make any bass-sound with Bonnie comingout of Tweak Peaks and so I don't really need another bass ...well ...I DO change basses! Like I said on other occasions: I am always looking for VERY peticular sounding basses to chnage from Bonnie: the Ellio MArtina with Alembic guts is a cpmplete maple contrecution. The Rob Allen fretless fiver is also a sound-class on his own. Am I loyal to my bass ...more or less ...depending on the mood, the environment, the music ... Paul TBO | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 478 Registered: 2-2005 |
So Jazzy, What do you have in your garden? I just got done bringing in the last of the spring lettuce and chard. Keith | ||
| darkstar01
Junior Username: darkstar01 Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2005 |
I don't know about the whole 'guitar players have more instruments than bassists' thing. And as far as the 'guitar players need instruments with different tonal and acoustic qualities' thing goes... yeah, not for bass players. i mean its just bass, right? austin oh, and, ftr, the classico is just as much a solidbody as alembic's other basses. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 468 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nothing exciting in the garden, I'm a reluctant gardener so I just have a lawn and hedges to look after. So nothing interesting in there, no flower beds etc as that would mean getting down to some weeding and tending the flower borders. Less time in the garden working = more time to do other stuff that I find more interesting. :-) Me talking about loyalty, I had a recording session with the Percussionist in my band. It was some traditional Indian music with a modern twist. So I decided it was better suited to acoustic guitar. But since Alembic don't do acoustics (yet) i guess I wasn't letting the side down. Anyway its about my bedtime now. Catch you soon. Jazzyvee | ||
| u14steelgtr
Junior Username: u14steelgtr Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2003 |
Austin; My comments about the number of instruments that players of various instruments tend to own is strictly my observation. I should mention that I was really thinking about the subset of people that I know that like to play several different styles of music. When I wrote that I was thinking in a context based on my premise (unstated) that Alembic owners tend to be more versatile musicians than most. I would say that the folks that I know that primarily stick with 1 to 3 styles of music tend to own only 1 or 2 instruments of a given type. Your circle of friends and region may be vary. It is true that the Classico is just as much a solid-body as Alembics other basses. The distinction I make is that most of Alembics other basses are not as well suited to playing with a bow. Your comment in this thread about the Classico is pretty ironic because after I made my post on this topic I got to thinking about the Alembic Classico and started a Classico specific thread. Regards -- Eugene | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 842 Registered: 9-2002 |
Boy, Eugene, you punched a LOT of buttons for me! I always maintain that guitar players are after the same thing NOW that they were after in 1960: A great tube amp sound and a wiggle stick that won't pull the guitar out of tune! HiFi guitar is almost an oxymoron from the standpoint of this vision of Famous Guitarist A in the recording studio with these arthritic, vintage guitars and ancient, buzzing amps facing state of the art digital recording tools (don't get me started on that either!!) to 'get that tone!!'. Aside from the occasional guitar player that will step up to EMGs (or even more rarely Barts, much less Activators) and a rack-based rig, the technology hasn't advanced a whole lot in 40 years. The PODs, CyberTwins, Line 6's, etc., I think reflect a different trend altogether: I'm convinced guitar amps are going to morph, control-wise, the way synthesizers did. The Yamaha DXs were the big start of turn-key synthesis: Who needs ADSR generators, all those knobs, etc., when you can just cycle through the presets until you find what you like? Think not? Play with anybody using a pod and watch how many times they EVER touch the amp except to turn it off an on. Of course, the 'in-vogue' sounds have never been hifi. Except for when acoustics are recorded. Listen to first-class bluegrass or classical guitar records, THEY'RE hifi. But they're not electric. One thing that really has me intrigued, and if you haven't heard or tried one, you need to do it just to 'expand your horizons'. Taylor's T5 is marketed on the 'one-axe-does-both' premise, and in large part, it really does. Amazingly close. One of these and a Little Darling would be one hell of a two-axe arsenal, but it would require DeTox to break that Paul/Strat/Martin habit! J o e y | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 411 Registered: 7-2004 |
A "wiggle stick'" - so that's what I'm after. Wow. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 469 Registered: 6-2002 |
Although a wiggle-stick is not a big part of my style, I do miss not having one on the Orion guitar at times. At the times I do find myself instinctively reaching down to curl my little finger round it when the moment takes me. But then realise it's not there, I have started to train myself to reach behind the nut with my picking hand and press + relax down on the strings there to get a similar effect. Cant get a pitch drop there I know but it works for some subtle wiggling. Right time for work.... JAzzyvee | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 369 Registered: 11-2003 |
Folks, It boils down to tone and feel. If it sounds right, plays and feels right, loyalty will remain with that brand. If it's a Fender, Gibson, Alembic, Fodera, Sadowsky, Status, Rickenbacker ... well, so be it. My loyalty to Alembic is that they feel, sound and play like no other bass on the planet. The attention to detail is second to none - the "wow" factor is unparalleled in my experience. This, in addition to being a member of a "club" that not many belong to is what I think makes Alembics special. This being said, I've met and talked to many who are not impressed by Alembics. They are, however, impressed with Fodera, MTD, Sadowsky, Lull, Lakland, etc. To each his/her own. I will say this - I had the opportunity to speak with the president of Alembic, on the phone, regarding my custom order. She told me everything about the instrument I was about to order, to include background information on a similar instrument owned by one of my bass heroes. She told me stories about him, how they built basses for him, etc. We talked cooking, holidays, family traditions, food, etc. Could you do this with the president of Fender, etc.? I think not. This is what binds most to Alembic, I think - human interaction. You're not just some guy or gal in Guitar Center doing your best Billy Sheehan imitation - you're a living, breathing human, and the people making your instrument are too. This, IMHO, is why we're so loyal. It's not just the instrument - it's everything that surrounds it. My Two Cents, Alan in Iraq (Message edited by ajdover on June 19, 2006) (Message edited by ajdover on June 19, 2006) | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 448 Registered: 2-2006 |
VERY, VERY well put Alan. I personaly would never ever knock, or put down a person for playing what they prefer, or can afford. I would also never turn my nose up at someones preference in music. Music is a gift from God, and art to be enjoyed by all not a competition. | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1153 Registered: 4-2004 |
here's my 2 cents while waiting for direwolf to get repaired, all i do is play on basses whishing they were close to an alembic.... aint selling him and neither will i part with the tribute bass whence i get that one i did sell my persuader, it was gravy on my potatoes. once i have wokf back i will start reducing my inventory of non alembics... :-) | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1404 Registered: 7-2004 |
Alan hit the nail on the head. Others may copy Alembic construction and looks, but there is only one Susan and the rest of Team Alembic. The degree of interest they show in the customer can't be faked. They are simply down to earth nice and very interesting people. Hey Alan, as the sargeant always said on Hill Street Blues, "be careful out there!" Bill, tgo | ||
| grateful
Intermediate Member Username: grateful Post Number: 143 Registered: 12-2004 |
Well said Alan and Bill. After the troubles I experienced with my Further build, I know how much Alembic care about all their customers: it's a unique experience in this day and age. The only thing they might put before customer care is quality control. Mark | ||
| echo008
Intermediate Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 199 Registered: 2-2003 |
I have been through a few Alembic basses, (my latest is a 5 string Essence) my Fiance who custom ordered a Skylark still has it, through all my trading. I should learn from her example, I keep trying different basses only to keep coming back to Alembic. Am I learning anyting yet!  The Skylark is still around the BB is long gone  - Tom |
