| Author | Message | ||
| lg71
Junior Username: lg71 Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2006 |
"There is no other preamp, graphic EQ, parametric EQ, or filter unit anywhere from anyone that can shape tone like the Alembic SF-2." I am not arguing with that... But, apart from using software plugins in post recordings... Is there anything out there that might be close to an SF-2, but a lot cheaper? | ||
| echo008
Advanced Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 227 Registered: 2-2003 |
I just picked up a Dtar Equinox ... while it is not a SF-2 it is a great tone shaping tool from the mind of Rick Turner and Seymour Duncan... the price is roughly around 250 usd, and yes it works great on electric bass Im using one with my Essence and Im loving it... until I can get another SF2 that is. http://www.d-tar.com/equinox.shtml From the web site "Equinox is an audiophile quality 3 band parametric equalizer preamp with low noise components and circuit design making it ideal for studio and live use. The frequency sweep control, bandwidth control, and boost/cut control allows musicians to correct or enhance very specific tonal problem areas. Dual notch filters can be used to control or eliminate acoustic feedback. Equinox is the ideal solution for musicians who require precise control of their EQ in any environment." - Tom | ||
| crgaston
Advanced Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2005 |
A high-quality 31 band grahic EQ can do a lot, but it is only one channel. If close is OK, you can get an awful lot of tone shaping out of one of these, with the added benefit of being able to notch out or boost pinpoint frequencies depending on the characteristics of the room. My dream rig includes one of these along with the SF-2. You can find a used Ashly for 250.00-400.00, depending on condition and model, and Ashly is probably the best quality for the lowest price. These are probably best for rackmounting in your bass rig, but the 31 band, 2 RU GQX series are amazingly accurate. http://www.ashly.com/product/mqx-series.htm A fully parametric EQ is similar to using just the bandpass setting on the SF-2, but with the ability to adjust the bandwidth as well. I have no idea what a decent parametric might go for, or who makes one. I have no experience with the Ashly unit, which looks like it has a lot pf processing power, but isn't truly fully parametric. I will say, in my opinion, I would stay away from Rane, but will also add that that opinion was formed over 10 years ago and I haven't checked them out lately. Have fun, Charles (P.S. guess I took to long in my response; the dryer buzzed and I had to fold some clothes. Echo, I've never heard of that but will be checking it out right now. Thanks!) (Message edited by crgaston on August 10, 2006) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 948 Registered: 9-2002 |
There ARE alternatives. However, there is NOTHING else that does what the SF2 does. Unless you have one built into your next ALEMBIC. Read the fine print about not changing the phase relationships. J o e y | ||
| lg71
Junior Username: lg71 Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2006 |
Thanks for the advice. I checked the Equinox on line, it is very interesting. I guess, two of these connected in series would give you some serious control/shapping options. Really, what I am kind of referring to is the kind of filter section you get on Synthesizers, with the parameters called "resonance" or "Q", there are loads of software plugins around that can do that, but I can't find anything else similar to the SF-2. A 31 band EQ is good option as well, and I imagine a fully parametric EQ connected with a 31 band EQ in series... If I was knowledgeable enough with electronics, I would create my own analog Super Filter/Preamp with sound shaping control that have never been made available for Bass player. I think, there is big gap in the market for exotic Bass effects. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 383 Registered: 11-2003 |
LG, If you care for my advice, look for an SF-2 on the used market. It's what I did, and though it took a while, I got one. You will not be sorry you waited. I'm currently running an F1-X, SF-2, QSC MX 1500, Furman AR-1215 Voltage Regulator, and Korg DTR 1000 tuner in my rack. It is the ultimate, IMHO, of tone. The F1-X allows me to biamp (my preferred amplification method), and the SF-2 allows flexibility beyond comprehension - high pass, low pass, and band bass. I use two stock Ampeg BXT series cabinets, and it works well for me. Wait for a used SF-2. You won't be sorry. It will make any bass sound twice as good. My two cents, Alan | ||
| edwin
Intermediate Member Username: edwin Post Number: 163 Registered: 5-2002 |
I 31 band EQ is not a great idea. Each band introduces phase shift that blurs your sound a little bit. Even parametrics do this, but to a lesser extent. The SF2 doesn't do it at all. There are some out there that get close, for instance, the Meyer CP10 EQ, but the price makes the SF2 seem like pocket change. That said, if you are handy with a soldering iron, check out Craig Anderton's original Electronic Projects for Musicians. There is a Super Tone Control in there that is a a 3 band state variable filter. It doesn't do exactly what the SF2 does, but it does do some things that it doesn't. I had one that I built into a bass many years ago (1983 or so) and it was crazy. It could get the most subsonic stuff I have ever heard from a bass and you could also crank the resonance to the point of self oscillation. Very cool, if you are into that sort of thing (and I was!). There is also a schematic for an envelope follower that will mate with this project for some major craziness. I think that PAIAA might still have a circuit board available for this project. I also have an Audio Arts parametric EQ lying around that I don't use if anyone is interested. Filters rule! Edwin | ||
| lg71
Junior Username: lg71 Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2006 |
Alan, thanks for your advice. Second hand SF-2s are very rare in the UK, and things like that are much more expensive over here. You have a big setup, my only Bass equipment is a Bass Pod XT and I use headphones most of the time, I don't have a dedicated bass amp and even if I had one I couldn't enjoy it much, because of neighbors and sound leakage... Occasionally I play the Bass quietly thru the near-field monitors. I hope that one day I will be able to stop using headphones, my ears are getting hot and sound-wise it is very uncomfortable after a while... I don't gig, I am more into composing/recording. | ||
| lg71
Junior Username: lg71 Post Number: 48 Registered: 3-2006 |
Edwin, thanks for the advice. I am curious and interested by both, the Electronic project and the Arts parametric EQ, would you have any links or photos, details...? It is not "too" important the sound quality at present, because I would use it mainly for playing, and I would probably record dry and then use plugins to process. With the Pod, the good thing is that there is a dry output in parallel with the effects out. | ||
| bumhucker
Junior Username: bumhucker Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2006 |
i too am looking for a used sf-2--i had a rane sp15-same as pe17 and it was nice. i didn't get to use it much but i was able to dial in a sound that was a definite inprovement on what i had. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1286 Registered: 3-2004 |
One question for those that use an SF-2 is, how do you use it? I just got my hands on the Fender TBP-1 preamp. While it may not use the same quality of component as the Alembic gear, it has a lot of similarities in function to an F-1X and then adds a couple extra features. One of those features is a band pass filter that centers between 80 and 2K Hz. I was hoping that would approximate some of what I would do with an SF-2. It also has a room balance adapter which seems like it "shifts" the tone higher or lower. That seems like another SF-2ish function. It certainly doesn't have the flexibility of the real thing, but it may have a couple useful filters that approximate what I would do with the SF-2. I haven't played with this thing much yet to get a real feel for it, but I have high hopes. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4245 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bob; check this post from the Must Reads section. The first link is to a thread where I posted my settings and approach over a year ago (includes a cool picture!). It's still pretty much how I'm using my SF-2 today. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 386 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bob, You're probably going to want to strangle me for this, but here's how I use mine; I run it with my F1-X, my QSC power amp, Ampeg cabinets, and twiddle with it until is sounds good to me. I don't get into the whole hZ thing, or crossover points, etc. I just know what sound I like, and I play with it until I get what I'm looking for. I guess I'm not a technical guy (I probably should be, but there you have it). I do know that an SF-2 has improved the tone of every bass I own, active, passive, US made, boutique, MIJ, you name it. How it does it, well, I don't know. But I'm glad it does. I hope you have good luck with your Fender. And get an SF-2 when you can; you won't be sorry. Alan | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 953 Registered: 9-2002 |
This reminds me of all the dark alleys I went down playing with the 'Q. I once thought a 31-band EQ would be the cat's a** as far as getting my tone once and for all. Fighting it for a week reminded me why first-rate PA guys really ARE rocket scientists. It became a bottomless pit. The gradations were way too fine. Don't EVEN ask me about using a stereo 16-band for each side of my biamp rig! Then when parametrics came along, I thought, 'gee, this looks a LOT more simple!'. Well, there's parametric EQs (bandwidth, Q-frequency, cut/boost) and the more usual semi-parametric EQs (Q-frequency and cut/boost). Most instrument amp builders have gone to the semis as most people haven't a clue just how hard that bandwidth knob can drive an amp IF it's too broad a curve down low enough. TC Electronic once offered a true 4-band parametric EQ that doubled as an instrument preamp. My favorite music store had one for sale. They'd sell it, then I'd see it back. Sell it again, see it back in a few weeks. People just got lost in it, the center frequences they'd pick out combined with the bandwidth crossing over each other four times, nobody could cozy up to it. Big fat spots and big dead spots. My EDEN runs semi-parametrics like most amps these days. It reinforced something I'd never considered, though I learned subconsciously from Ron: SO much depends on the designer. How the techno-geekery gets translated into something fairly foolproof and MUSICAL-sounding for us mere mortals. I think this is truly what separates the men from the boys, so to speak. The ALEMBIC F- preamps, while admittedly descended from Fender designs (and the RCA Radio traditions), show that SOMEBODY with very good ears made conscious decisions with regards to the technical end as to what sounds good on the musical end. This isn't always the case: There's LOTS of tube guitar amps these days, built up from the same Fender DNA, and their tone is all over the place from brand to brand. Where the Qs fall in my EDEN gear (especially in concert with their cabinets) were obviously selected by good ears. You've seen this/heard it when trying out amps: Some it's hard to find a bad sound, some you just can NOT find any tone you'd want to use. That genius of making these random electronic bits do your bidding in a musical way is NOT to be underestimated. And everybody here hears it: Otherwise we'd be somewhere else. The SF2 is an utterly unique approach, some of Ron's genius out in broad daylight, as it were. And a completely 'out of the box' take as a solution to tone control. I wonder what was the inspiration or antecedent that led to this. There's lots of Q devices out there, any number of which would make most of us happy. But just like ELF, PZMs, Near-Field monitors, low-impedance pickups, sustain blocks, etc., once you hear an SF2, everything else is in a different place. Maybe it is or isn't your cup of tea, but it really is like nothing else. J o e y | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2003 |
Joey, +1. The SF-2 is like nothing else. I've been playing close to thirty years, and have owned Fender, Peavey, Hartke, Ampeg, Alembic, and Acoustic gear. The SF-2 is in a league of its own. It can take the most ordinary of basses and make it sound extraordinary. No joke. Sure, you can use EQs, parametrics, etc., but they'll never approach the SF-2's performance in my experience. Nothing comes close to an SF-2 from what I can tell. Alan | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4260 Registered: 5-2002 |
Speaking of Edens. Yesterday afternoon I was asked to play at a party set for last night. The other musicians were four accoustic guitars and whoever wanted to join in on the vocals. My bass would be the only thing "plugged in". I decided to take the Essence 4, Eden WT-800, and Acme B-2. Before I left the house I set up the tone using the Eden's parametric controls for what I hoped would be appropriate. When I got to the party, set up, and started playing, I made a slight adjustment to the pan control on the bass and that was it. The tone out of that rig was really nice and fit well with the accoustic guitars and voices. I had not used the WT-800 in a while and was looking to sell it, but now I'm rethinking that idea. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 957 Registered: 9-2002 |
That's EXACTLY the point: Just HOW usable are the controls the designer built into the piece? David Nordschow at EDEN 'gets it', as do some others, and of course Ron's ears are the GodFather to all of us Alembic pilots. After 'is it loud enough?', it's all down to tone. Then couple that with how well it's built, the parts selected, is it reliable, designing this stuff really is the business, isn't it? I'm always reminded of this when I play the BigRedBass; at 15 years old, the volume and tone pots are silent, and spin like they're floating in well-damped oil. I played a late 70s Series recently and it was SILENT. This doesn't happen by accident. So Dave, do you get any royalties for those "Girls Gone Wild" soundtracks??? J o e y | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4261 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hah! It wasn't that kind of party! | ||
| crgaston
Advanced Member Username: crgaston Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2005 |
The 31 band eq can be tough, but if you use it more to tweak your tone for the room rather than actually shape the sound, it isn't really that bad. Honestly, a 15 band is probably more than enough. I wish someone would make a 15 band rack unit optimized for bass. I mean, who really needs 16KHz? :-) First, you have to remember that generally speaking, boost=bad, cut=good. Leave as many sliders flat as you can. With the Ashly, at least, this removes the filter from the signal chain, minimizing the phase problem Joey mentioned. Then begin cutting frequencies that over-resonate in the room, which, unfortunately, are usually in the low end and can make your bass sound muddy and indistinct. Start by dumping one in the general area of the problem all the way out and then bring it back until it sounds the way you want it. Then go up or down as needed, one frequency at a time, until you have the tone you're looking for. If you're like me, you may want to give yourself a little bump in the 630-800 area (just 2-3 dB) to further improve definition and attack. Being methodical like this is slow, but it is great for training your ears and it is a great way to clean up your sound and give yourself more articulation and headroom. Legal Disclaimer: None of the above information in any way abrogates the fact that the SF-2 rocks total balls. Charles | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 353 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have 2 almost identical heads with Korg tuner, F1X with SF2 in the loop into PLX 3402. Gotta have a back up. I run them into Epi T310 (am selling to get the UL 310) UL212 with the option of a T115. Also have Acme B2 and B4. Without delving into the manuals a great deal, I just play around until I hear what I want to hear. The SF2 can make non Alembics sound killer as well. That was proven with a 4003, tbird, stambaugh and ripper. I'm sure alternatives are out there for anyone who is interested and feels that SF2's are a bit too dear. As has been stated previously, look on ebay for a used one. I got one new and one used from dealers and private folk. In a rock band context, is it truly necessary? Perhaps not. But for sheer personal expression and the ability to dial in any tone you want, I heartily endorse it. That's also because Alembic doesn't do endorsements. (mores the pity) The gearheads of the world must stick together! I still have to endure the "all you need is a precision" regularly. Danno | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 388 Registered: 11-2003 |
Danno, It's great to see you back. I personally have missed your insights. Hope that Ripper is still working out for you ... You're right on about the SF-2 taking non-Alembics and making them sound phenomenal. Ditto on the Rick and Ripper. Same goes for my Lakland 4-94, '79 Stingray, and Fenders. An SF-2 just ... well, it takes your tone to a new level. Yeah, I know, some folks might think I'm exaggerating, but trust me, I'm not. I'm like you ... I play around with it until I hear what I like. Right now, I'm running the F1-X with an SF-2 and Ampeg BXT series cabs. I couldn't be happier. Again, welcome back. You were sorely missed. Alan | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1553 Registered: 7-2004 |
I use an SF-2 in my effects loop, followed by a BBE Sonic Maximizer. This supposedly solves any phase problems and puts back any tone sucked out by my stomp pedals. All I know is it sounds really good. Bill, tgo | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 354 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks AJ for your kind words and your dedicated service to our country. Glad you are safe at home with your wife and loved ones. (notice I put your wife first). SF2 really is an amazing piece of gear. I don't pretend toknow how or why it works, I just use it. Oh, BTW my settings don't work well with a Mexican Jazz bass. I lent the rig to to kid at a gig and he sounded..... huh......... not good. (I did say to leave all the settings) | ||
| lg71
Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2006 |
Ok then, while I was being curious and at the same time serious... I got the message! and very clear it is: "there is nothing else like it...". Fine, here is what is going to happen then: I was interested in an SF-2 so I could get close to the Alembic sound with non Alembic basses... But now that my Arialembic is ready, and pleased with the result... I thought that it will be much more cost effective for me to get my Aria SB 900 upgraded with a second hand Alembic harness... I am going to post a picture of my Arialembic. Thanks to everyone who have helped, LG |
