| Author | Message | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4350 Registered: 5-2002 |
In a recent Showcase section thread, a fellow member asked what kind of strings he should put on his fretless to get a "Jaco" sound. Another fellow member answered that Jaco used Rotosound Swing bass. I didn't want to hijack a Showcase thread, so I thought I would bring it up here. Given the reputation of roundwounds for chewing up fingerboards on fretless basses, I was wondering if there are any fretless players here using them. Unlike Alembic fingerboards, which are unsealed, Jaco's do-it-yourself-on-the-backseat-of-a-Greyhound-bus fretless was sealed with a generous serving of marine epoxy if I recall correctly. So perhaps that's why he was able to use the Rotosounds. Just thought it was an interesting question. I'm not looking to change strings. | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 667 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Dave, I did one set of DR Hibeams on my Epic and changed to TI Jazz Flats when I noticed some wear from what appears to be round wound strings. I'm marginally happy with my sound (some nights better than others), but it's not really "Jaco"-like. My on-stage choices don't run in that direction ("Make it simpler...don't play so much").  Mike P.S. I'm switching my Distillate to TIs as well on next change. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1297 Registered: 3-2004 |
If I wanted the roundwound-on-fretless sound, I would go for one of the composite or finished boards. Maybe a Zon or Pedulla. | ||
| steve4765630
Junior Username: steve4765630 Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2006 |
I have used them on my Warrior fretless for 9 years without ever refinishing the fingerboard. It has an unfinished purple heart fingerboard. I swear it's the best material for fretless boards. I have talked to so many guys with ebony, pau ferro, maple and rosewood that have to refinish them all the time. The Pedulla Buzz basses have a coating that protects the board. I think the main thing is not to "strong arm" it. A light touch is always best, IMHO. | ||
| steve4765630
Junior Username: steve4765630 Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2006 |
I have used them on my Warrior fretless for 9 years without ever refinishing the fingerboard. It has an unfinished purple heart fingerboard. I swear it's the best material for fretless boards. I have talked to so many guys with ebony, pau ferro, maple and rosewood that have to refinish them all the time. The Pedulla Buzz basses have a coating that protects the board. I think the main thing is not to "strong arm" it. A light touch is always best, IMHO. | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 363 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have my 7 fretless strung with a DM Will Lee set. I have a few slight marks but then again I had that with a Kubiki neck finished with Swedish epoxy. It's all metal in strings. You wanna dance, you gotta pay the band. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 637 Registered: 2-2006 |
I have a 79 Music Man with an unfinished rosewood fretboard that I've used round wound strings on for years. I bought the bass new in 79 and it has some wear on the high end of the fret board but not too bad for its age. (I used D'addario half rounds for a while but the quality with down after a few years.) | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 700 Registered: 11-2002 |
I use TI flats now, but more for the tone and feel, than concerns about wear (on ebony fingerboards). I don't happen to be going for a Jaco sound, but thought I'd add a few notes on wear. Take a very close look at the strings - use a magnifying glass, a loupe, a good close up lens, or maybe even a 10x microscope. There is a huge difference in the surface finish from different manufacturers, and styles. TI jazz rounds, and nickel Coco's (my previous favorite), tend to be quite smooth, and of course nickel is much softer than stainless. Some others looks like a chainsaw. (Alembics are actually quite smooth.) There really is a lot of variation, so if you want to use rounds and are concerned about wear, then take a close look. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 788 Registered: 10-2002 |
I've been using Roundwounds on my fretless rogue since I got it 18 months ago. Initially Alembic strings but latterly I've been using DR red devils. I've not really noticed any fingerboard wear aside from a slight shine. Graeme | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 537 Registered: 2-2005 |
Even with the epoxied neck I recall seeing somewhere Jaco had to have the neck recoated several times due to wear. That being said I am using Di'Addario Chromes which are a flat wound string. I just didn't feel like risking excessive fretboard wear. Keith | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 805 Registered: 10-2003 |
I used Rotosounds on all my fretless basses through the years. Never had any real problems with wear, and they got played a lot. My fretless Jazz bass (early 70's) had a rosewood board. I had a fretless Music Man Stingray that had a maple board, and come to think of it, it did have uneven wear as though it had only ever played country music (bought it from a country music guy who strangely enough only ever used flatwounds on it). A session in the garage with some sandpaper wrapped around a long straight chunk of walnut took care of that, and I only had to do that once. On my short scale fretless Ovation hollow body electric (shaped like a Guild Starfire), I think the fingerboard was rosewood. It was lined, but I never had any issues with the Rotos. The Carvin fretless 5 that I owned for several years always sported a set of Rotosounds and never had any unusual wear of the ebony board. My brother now owns it and keeps TI jazz flats on the wonderful little bass... When I saw Jaco in Nashville in '83 or '84 he played a fretted Jazz Bass. He also had a very runny nose.  John | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 71 Registered: 3-2004 |
I managed to wreck a Jazz in under a year, with D'Addario rounds. The divots in the rosewood were to deep to repair. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 640 Registered: 2-2006 |
The D'Addario's I used were HALF rounds. I never really liked their rounds. My favorite round strings were John Pearse and they are hard to find. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4360 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hmmm ... quite a variety of responses! | ||
| keurosix
Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2005 |
Rotos use a stst outer winding. They bite into frets easily and will cut into a fingerboard if the player has a hard touch. Looks like most of the fretless players here know how to play the fretless like a fretless so that they get minimal fretboard wear. Just like a doublebass, the technique for vibrato is a wrist movement which rolls the fingertip on the string. This gives a great vibrato with hardly any wear. A fretted player is used to getting vibrato differently by bending the string down the fret. This technique on a fretless will file the outer winding into the wood gouging it in no time at all. I also notice that Alembic's ebony fingerboards are a lot harder than the Fender's rosewood boards. A lot thicker too. More mass for tone generation. Andy, your Jazz bass must've had a really soft piece of rosewood. I've seen a lot of Fender fretless basses with flatwounds and tapewounds for that very reason. (And very paranoid owners!) For a roundwound string on a fretless, I think TI's Power Bass string might work really well. The outer winding is not stst. I personally use the Alembic strings that have a pressed or flattened round winding. They seem to have the best of both worlds - good tone and flexibility. I am hesitant to use flats because of the reduction in feedback from the string to my fingers. Too much tension and not enough flexibilty - makes me work harder - Ouch! However, with Alembic electronics, I can add or subtract from the string if need be, and when strings die so what? But on a flat wound, they start out sounding kinda dead or thumpy. I need to tweak up the high end right from the start. Not my cup of tea. 2 cents? | ||
| indybass
New Username: indybass Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2003 |
On my fretless, I've always used Elixir Nano Web Strings. They are easy on the neck and they have the sustain that I like on bass. | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 106 Registered: 11-2003 |
Roto Sound had made certain string sets with what they called a Linea finish. Are these still made? I have three alembic fretless (4,5,6 strg)the oldest is 10 years old the most wear is on my 6strg which has been played at least two gigs a week plus.There has been very little wear.Besides,nothing is going to give you that mywah like stst on ebony.It's the price of admission into the house of tone. I've enjoyed the Pedulla fingerboards for years and that coating does have to be reapplied with use and time. The phrenolic plastic fingerboards on the Zon coupled with the graphite neck offer an excellent alternative to the coating but also wear again,the price of admission. Ibanez also has the phrenolic fingerboard. Possibly two alternatives exist: Moses grafite offers various necks etc. AND very thin sheets of graphite. I'm not sure but I believe these could be cut to fingerboard widths with either good quality scissors or scored with a sheet rock knife and applied with a water based glue for easy removal. The other more permanent solution is something I know works as I have used it myself on a rosewood board of my Bil Mitchell fretless acoustic bass. I wanted to have the warmth of rosewood with the hardness of ebony so we coated the fingerboard with 3 coats of Minwax wood hardner. I believe the product is nothing more than a mixture of epoxy held in suspension by acetone. It's kind of runny so mask the board off and use sparingly. The acetone penitrates the wood and evaporates leaving the epoxy to harden. I allowed a day for each coat to cure and restrung it(her) two days after that. All I can say is it works,it sounds wonderful and it wasn't all that messy or expensive. I used three of those $1.00 foam disposable brushes some masking tape(blue)and newspaper.Total cost was under twenty bucks. Just my 4 cents. | ||
| keurosix
Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 67 Registered: 10-2005 |
I recently used Birchwood Kasey's Tru-oil gun-stock finishing oil on my Dean fretless rosewood board with great success. It goes on like linseed oil, dries almost hard in 2 hours, (don't wait longer!) and then gets buffed to a shine with 00 steel wool. I masked the pickups and body so the steel dust doesn't fly to the pickups. The finish is really durable and shiny. Rosewood becomes as tough as ebony. This oil imparts a really neat high end response equal to a finished board ala Pedulla Buzz basses. It won't harm the wood, seals it from moisture, and toughens it against wear. I got it at a sporting goods store where they sold hunting supplies. BassPlayer magazine mentions it in one of their technical articles, along with a host of other products. Kris 2 more cents. | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2004 |
This is interesting. I sold my Jazz shortly after it became unplayable (I had a student who didn't mind the dead spots, and I basically gave it away). I am now looking at buying an Elan that had the frets pulled out. It's a beautiful bass, and I'd hate to make the same mistake twice. I understand the idea that stuff wears out naturally over time, but I would like to get 10 years out of a fingerboard. I will definitely try some different strings on that sucker, like Alembics. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 75 Registered: 3-2004 |
By the way, I do have some background on upright, and I understand the vibrato thing. I have seen guys bend the string to get that effect on fretless, although it doesn't work very well, due to the direction of the woodgrain. That technique also makes quick work of a fingerboard. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 806 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think one of the biggest issues with fingerboard life is how hard you stop the string. I have a natural tendency to really pull 'em down against the fingerboard, and have to consciously fight the urge to do that when I'm playing fretless. A lighter grip is easier on the body, too. Spend a bit of time with an instrument that has a scalloped fingerboard and it will show the brutality of your technique in a most out-of-tune way.. ;) Of course, not stopping the string with enough force is damaging as well, as it lets the string grind away some of the fingerboard if you're not actually "stopping" it... Just some thoughts from someone who is as inclined to destroy the music as he is inclined to destroy the instrument.. John | ||
| hb3
Intermediate Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 153 Registered: 2-2005 |
I play the hell out of my pedulla buzz bass but have never had to refinish the fingerboard....and I used the deadly improper vibrato technique for many years. | ||
| keurosix
Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2005 |
Barry, I remember Rotosound's "Linea" finish. It is similar to the pressure-wound roundwound string by various manufacturers. However, I believe it was a "core only" type string over the bridge. This means you would have to raise your bridge very high, or have custom bridge saddles made for the core diameter only. The John Judge doubleneck was set up for this type of string. In fact, they made a special set for John, and when I bought the bass I also bought about 50 sets of strings. The 8 string octave bass sounded killer! Very bright and strong. The Linea finish was real smooth on the hands too. Hugh, What type of round wound string did you use on your Buzzes? Were they stst or nickel? A roundwound nickel string won't mark the neck hardly at all. I agree, the Buzz has a very tough coating on the fingerboard, but I've seen some that were filed away from stst round wounds. Also, as a follow up, I looked at the Birchwood Kasey's Tru-oil bottle, and it's made of Linseed oil and petroleum distillates. A thinned down Linseed. My old Luthier swore by Linseed oil. He also said don't use WD-40 or Fingerease or you will never be able to put a finish on the neck later if you wanted to. I think that would also go for re-fretting, and trying to glue in the frets. They might not stick. Kris | ||
| hb3
Intermediate Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 154 Registered: 2-2005 |
I've used steel roundwounds but I'm gonna give nickel a try -- DR Sunbeams. The steel strings have marked the neck right at the bottom of the fingerboard, but that's it. | ||
| ajdover
Advanced Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 397 Registered: 11-2003 |
I have DR Hi Beams on my 99 Fender Jazz Bass Deluxe Fretless. It has a custom epoxy board, and I have no problems with it. Alan | ||
| 88persuader
Advanced Member Username: 88persuader Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2004 |
I use Boomers or Swing bass Strings, round wound heavy gage on all my basses. I've had Ebony fretboards on different fretless's i've owned and never got more then superficial scratching. Currently my fretless is a Modulus Quantum 5 with a graphite neck and fretboard. I think I could take off the neck, use the neck as a bat to play soft ball with then put it back on the bass and it would be fine. The sound is a little different then a wooden neck but the way it wears is amazing. It never needs adjustment and the weather doesn't effect it. Personally I wish Alembic was still offering graphite necks. I love my Alembics but need to tweak the necks a few times a year. But I got off the subject a little. I think round wounds are the way to go fretted or fretless. A fretless with flat wounds sounds too dull for my taste. Of course this is just my opinion. |
