| Author | Message | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 340 Registered: 4-2003 |
I recently put on a set of TI Jazz Bass Roundwounds. They are a "low tension" string: .043, .051, .058 and .089. The A, D and G strings feel great, sound great. The problem is the E buzzes at every fret. I've raised the bridge on the E side as high at it will go to no avail. Another consideration was that the string was vibrating too much in the saddle, but the buzz is clearly from string contact at the next fret up. The neck is perfect and I don't wish to apply any bizzare truss rod adjustments to accomodate this one string. I'm afraid the "low tension" feature is too sloppy. My question is this: Is it theoretically possible to keep the lower tension ADG strings and restring the E with the older .105 with no ill effects? Any feedback is welcome, rehearsal Wednesday night and services Friday and Sunday. FYI: Yes, standard (as if, lol) Alembic nut and saddles - .045, .065, .085 and .105. thanks in advance, Mike (Message edited by groovelines on September 05, 2006) | ||
| hb3
Intermediate Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 156 Registered: 2-2005 |
What's the worst that could happen? | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 211 Registered: 4-2005 |
www.juststrings.com sells TI singles. Maybe they have a matching string in the size you're looking for. | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2004 |
Absolutley fine, although expect to adjust that truss anytime you change gauges. Don't let it scare you, either. A truss adjustment is not a big deal. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 670 Registered: 2-2006 |
Might try a .100 E string first. You may have to adjust the pickup clearance too. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1039 Registered: 6-2002 |
Is it an extra long scale set? The flatwounds have a .100 E for the 34", and a .105 E for the 32". | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 341 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, everyone. I was more concerned about mixing tension than gauges. Adriaan, No, its a long scale. Other than the buzz, the TIs are superb. Maybe purchasing a single, larger guage sting is the trick. thanks again, Mike | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1041 Registered: 6-2002 |
TI are quite peculiar about gauges - they insist they make strings in gauges that work, rather than gauges that are exactly .005 apart like they are for most brands. Mind you, TI represent a string making tradition that goes back a lot further than electric instruments. | ||
| lg71
Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 76 Registered: 3-2006 |
Interesting post... I find that I get more buzzes with lighter gauge because I pluck/pull 'hard", same goes for the action, I don't like low action personally, because it requires a softer touch. It's a question of taste I'd say, I strung one of my bass with D'Addario EXL160 rounds (gauge .050, .0.70, .085, .105) which is stiffer next to the previous 100, 80, 60, 40, but I like it better with the heavier gauge, it does feel a bit strange at first, but then I prefer it, I get less buzz, more expression and speed, more bass obviously, a bit less treble as well. I also have some TIs flats and they are really good, I like them and although they have a light tension, they don't buzz, next to a similar gauge rounds. I wish I had an extra set in fact. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4393 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike; these are the same strings I play, TI Jazz Rounds. I think they are absolutely wonderful. Personally, I would not change the E string to a different gauge. As Adriaan pointed out, the strings are a matched set. My guess is that when you took the old set off and put this "low tension" set on, by reducing the string tension on the neck, you took some of the relief out. In other words the effect on the action would be the same if, instead of changing strings, you had tightened the truss rod nuts a little. Thus it stands to reason that you may now need to loosen the nuts a little and give the neck some relief. Try loosening the nuts maybe 1/8 of a turn and see if that doesn't make a difference. | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 944 Registered: 7-2002 |
Dave's right. You need to loosen the truss rods. TI string have much less tension than most other strings, regardless of the gauge. They just build them differently. I've used those strings, & I had to adjust the neck for them. It's a pretty common thing with Tomastiks. Valentino | ||
| lg71
Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 78 Registered: 3-2006 |
Oh yes, obviously the neck relief needs to be adjusted usually when changing gauge/tension, although on some rare occasions, switching from one gauge to another didn't require attention, that was just a one off though, but a nice one. | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 342 Registered: 4-2003 |
I'm ceratinly willing to give it go. I really like the TIs and would like to keep the set complete as designed. Tonight's rehearsal was scrubbed, so I've extra time to work it out. Now, off to find Joey's notes on truss rod adjustments... | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 673 Registered: 2-2006 |
I understand the "matched set" on the TI's but wouldn't it stand to reason that each bass is different too. So some modifications may be necessary to the “matched set” for a particular bass. I’ve jammed with Mike and he doesn’t play hard at all. In fact he has a real smooth right hand technique. (I even stole some of his chops, SSHHH) Excellent player, at least until he gets tanked up full of IBC.  | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1001 Registered: 9-2002 |
Yes, going from 'normal' strings to TI low tensions and a 43-89 set, gonna need a little tweaking. Imagine that your 45-105 set exerts some value of tension (lbs/ft), and that value against the way your bass is adjusted results in an action that is good for you. You would then assume that the 'low tension' and TI construction would exert a SMALLER value of tension: This has brought the buzz you're hearing as the neck is now pushing harder than the strings, to think of it in that way. Or more correctly, the relief has pulled either dead straight or it may even be high in the middle at the current truss rod setting vs. lower tension strings. Probably backing off the truss rod tension and resetting your last fret heights will 'bring it in' for these strings. After you read the post and dive in, write down what the clearances were at first, then each movement you make: IF all else fails, you can reverse them to get back to where you started. In the short version: Check your nut clearance, then check your relief ("bow"), then adjust your string heights over the last fret. After that, IF these strings are still like new, adjust your harmonics, and re-adjust your pickup heights if you do that sort of thing. I've never cared for light guage strings for me. The necks always pitch a fit, less metal for the pickups, and they just don't feel big under my fingers. I must admit that the TI's are ingenious in making such incongruous guages work as such beautiful, matched sets. I've always imagined these stiff-upper-lip Austrians at TI being asked why there is only ONE group of guages for each set . . . "ZEESE ARE DE SISES WE HAFF SELEKTED AND YOU VILL LIKE THEM!" J o e y | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 343 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks, everyone. I dug up Joey's post and read a few others in the "Must Reads" section regarding truss rod adjustment ( single-side adjustments vs identical, dual-side adjustments), lots of helpful information. The change in string tension makes sense. What I find odd is that the E string buzzed the neck's entire length, while ADG were as quiet as could be hoped for. To my lament and I hope not my undoing, I don't have any feeler gauges as Joey recommends, but did have a medium pick or two lying around from my " I wanna be Chris Squire" days. I'll visit NAPA this weekend and pick up a set, I'd like to do this right. So, a slight turn of the truss rod (about 1/16th at a time, call me Frank Purdue's poster boy, cluck ,cluck) tune, adjust, tune, adjust and tune. For the moment it's zeroed in. The action is better than I thougth I would be able to maintain. I'll let it sit overnight and check it tomorrow. Olie, dude, I would have lifted your chops but I can't think that fast. IBC "hic" rules. Joey, your set-up posts are invaluable, thanks. BTW have you seen the five string, P/J Elan with translucent chery paint at Bass Northwest? It's calling you, brutha. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1003 Registered: 9-2002 |
GLine, that red ELAN is right up my alley, BUT . . . I already have this red bass and she would pitch a big one if I brought another redhead home! There will always be another another another I'd guess your ADG were a bit high, plus they move less and less in oscillation as the size decreases, so it's not that unreasonable that only the big E was rattling. Be sure after everything settles in after a few days to a week that you do the part about the string heights over the last fret: Just measure under the E and under the G. This will match the curve of the strings from the bridge to the radius of your fingerboard and really is the cherry on the banana split to complete your setup. Bear in mind, the E will probably ride best just a bit higher than the G, so the clearances of the two may not match exactly. Just adjust the height screws at each end of the bridge, and away you go! I'll say it again: ALEMBICs are the EASIEST basses to teach yourself these adjustments. The adjustable nut, double truss rods, and one-piece bridge make doing it yourself a breeze. No neck bolts, no pulling the pickguard just to get at the truss rod, no bone/plastic/micarta/graphTech nut to refile (or worse, fill in or replace), and on and on. And the best part is that you never have to PAY for someone to not get it quite right, or my favorite, "WHY do you want low action on a bass? NOBODY plays a bass with low action!?!?!" J o e y | ||
| lg71
Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2006 |
Agreed, why would you want a low action? You may as well buy a guitar! On top of that, I find that when the action is too low, your dynamic range is SO limited as well, you can't "cut" the strings...NO WAY! | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 344 Registered: 4-2003 |
J o e y, Thanks. Right now it's settling in pretty good. Only buzz left is at second and third position. It'll get me through tonight's services at church. Tomorrow I'm off to purchase some feelers and then adjust the heights at the 24th fret. Two redheads: I think I dated some sisters like that, maybe you're right. lg71 - low action...part of this exercise is to teach myself better left hand technique and to get away from digging into the bass so much. I want a lighter touch and to experiment with tapping. Not sure if those are the best reasons for doing that, but that's the way I'm headed. Mike | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1004 Registered: 9-2002 |
Lg, I'm afraid my sarcasm was not obvious: I played for years with a moderately high action, heavy picks, frammed the hell out of them. For me, as it dawned on me I wanted more control than just pushing those high strings, I gravitated to lower and lower action. While today I could find basses with lower action than mine, it's pretty low in the overall scheme of things. True, I can't flail away as I did before. I no longer need to. I find now that I have QUITE the dynamic range when the need arises. Ultimately the sound IS in your hands. Whether one of my pet basses or sittin' in on somebody's rragedy PBass, give me a minute and it will sound 'like me'. I just got tired of fighting the action on 'unprepared' basses. Now that I know the feel of the neck relief, the matching stringprofile/neck radius, the pickups in the right heights for my sound, I just could never go back, given the choice. And of course, this was driven home once I got my ALEMBIC: It MADE me hear the difference and pursue what I could add to finish building a much more sophisticated sonic signature for myself. Geez, this stuff gets too deep fast . . . J o e y | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1005 Registered: 9-2002 |
GLines, once you get the feelers, remember: The point is to get a set of vaules that's right FOR YOU and for YOUR BASS. No two players or two basses are exactly the same. But . . . once you find YOUR numbers, then you'll have a set of numbers that you've proven will work for YOU as your preferred set-up. The great thing then will be: Let's say down the road you decide the TI's aren't so hot after all and you want to go to, say, a 45-105 set of LaBella flatwounds, just as an example. You now know to expect the neck/action to act up. Fine. You can go to 'your numbers' with the new set and you're right back in the ballgame, and you did it YOURSELF! And after you get real used to the feel and the look of it, you'll be able to do fine adjustments by 'eyeball'. Your hands will tell you when it's 'there' or when it's time to check it. It's a terrific thing to learn, and great security as you're no longer at the mercy of getting someone else to do it for you. It's all possible though, due to the features so unique to ALEMBIC. J o e y | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 675 Registered: 2-2006 |
Joey, you hit the nail on the head! "No two players or two basses are exactly the same." What works for one may not for another, that doesn't make one way right or wrong just different. I’ve played Mikes bass and he has what I would call medium action. Not extremely low at all. I really liked the way it felt. Of course that was before the TI’S. Hey Mike I’ll be in Plano tonight for a friends B-Day party, Ever hear of OBZEET”s? I sure hope the foods good. (Message edited by olieoliver on September 08, 2006) | ||
| lg71
Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 83 Registered: 3-2006 |
- Mike, I personally setup my basses without feelers and it has work very well, I also like to try different strings and I can also tell you that I am bit of a "nerd" when it comes down to setting things up on my basses, it can take up to a month to get my ultimate setup when I try new strings, I don't really "measure" stuff, I just play, tweak, play, let it rest... next day again and again... until I like it. One of my bass can have an incredible low action without buzzing (and although the frets are nearly "DEAD"!!!), and it is only a cheap Aria SB 700, but I don't enjoy playing it if the strings it's too low. - Joey, I though you were saying that you preferred higher action. Well, I didn't mean James Jamerson type, but I have tried different strings + setups, and the low action don't work for me. I guess I depends on the style, I am into Funk, Disco, Motown... The low action just don't work for me, although I CAN play it if I want, but I have a strong pull + grip and I really need to pluck like a mad man! I can't help it | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1008 Registered: 9-2002 |
Incidentally, I've been testing the Markley NPS Roundcores on the BRB for the last few months and I'm VERY impressed. Round core, nickel wrapped, the sound has NOT changed appreciably in these 90 days. They remind me somewhat of DRs or Coccos. Tension wise they fall between my usual diet of Boomers and the DRs, at least in the way they feel under my hands. The neck agreed, as I had to crank a bit more tension back in to return to my usual settings. I'm about to decide to try some on the Yamahas and see if the same experience repeats on them. And they sound GREAT with the FatBoys, cut right through a band withOUT cranking a lot of highs, they've got that lower harmonics growl that's real useable for me. J o e y | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 345 Registered: 4-2003 |
The TIs felt real good last night and the action remains lower than with the DR set up. I'm going to keep it this way for a bit and see if it grows on me, so far I'm satisfied with the move. Olie - yup, we've been to Obzeet's a number of times; we've even taken the girls. I'm fairly certain they sell more drinks, cigars and desserts than garden accessories, lol. Usually the music is good to better than the mainstream clubs downtown. Glad the lasagna stayed with you, I'm kinda gun shy since our last visit.  RE: your comfort neck. If you wish, we can get together again or possibly swing by the house if you're up this way again and give the bass another test ride to see if you really like the feel. Mike | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 702 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hey Mike, I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes", but just for the sake of clarity, did you achieve this with the original E string? When I first started with TI's (jazz rounds, then quickly flats) I was a little disturbed by their gauging, and started out with one custom string in the set, and it felt terrible. Joey likes to joke about it, but I say these guys know what they're doing with the gauges and tensions. So if you got it to work with the standard set, congratulations - I think you'll love them. -Bob | ||
| groovelines
Advanced Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 347 Registered: 4-2003 |
Hi, Bob Yes, I used with the original E string - didn't feel the need to try something other than what T-I had designed. Plus, the juststrings.com pricing for individual strings was exorbitant. I'm also a bit of a purist when it comes to trying something for the first time - there's a reason for the design, so that's the way it should be "experienced". Adjust afterwards. After three more services on Sunday the strings feel great. The smaller gauges are a perfect match for my finger tips and I'm really enamored with the tactile sensation of the roundwound. Just needed a little tuning on the E and A and good to go. As pasionate as Joey is about bass care, I'm willing to bet your next paycheck that he appreciates TI's passion regarding string design. For me, I'm simply astounded by the amount of engineering that goes into making the darn things. I've never given it much thought, just took it all for granted. Mike | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1011 Registered: 9-2002 |
Oh yes; on the face of it, to read the string guages T-I specs in each set, the sizes just look a little screwy, ESPECIALLY the low Bs. But they are wonderful feeling (and sounding) stings, and it's obvious a LOT of work and 'out of the box' thinking (the BEST kind) went into them. I think it's also VERY interesting that their ABG strings have a nylon core: You sure don't need a steel (as in magnetic) core for piezo pickups. I don't think any other string builder does this, but I could be wrong. Friends of mine who spent the $um of money for a set say they just TRANSFORM run of the mill (cheap!) ABGs. I heard some on the formidable Ribbecke Bobby Vega bass, and I would never think of using anything else, IF I could afford one. Very clever, these Austrians. J o e y | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 547 Registered: 2-2005 |
Quote "... wonderful feeling (and sounding) stings, ...." Joey, I have to disagree with you here. I have never had a wonderful feeling "sting". I don't care how much work went into it. Keith | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1013 Registered: 9-2002 |
Eye appolojise fore meye slauppy splieng! Jo E | ||
| georgie_boy
Intermediate Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2005 |
Keith and Joe Thanks for making me laugh out loud! G |
