| Author | Message | ||
| Randell W. Curry (hifibassman)
New Username: hifibassman Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2002 |
First, hello to everyone here. Mica, can you or someone on your staff recall an old funk band back in the late 70's/early 80's by the name of "Slave" and whether or not their bassist Mark Adams used an Alembic? His bass sound had an audio signature like a series type bass- very hi-fi, dynamic and very powerful. To this day there are no other basses that could sound like his. I have been trying to figure this out for years as i was an avid Slave fan. That group's music was centered around the sound of that bass and i remember back then alot of people would ask me what kind of bass Mark played- i always assumed it was a series 1 with the gain pots turned all the way up. I mean it had all the harmonic signatures and sustain that a series 1 normally produces. No other bass sounded quite like his although there were other series basses with a more traditional series bass tone from other bands played at that time. i hope this question is making sense to you. | ||
| Nate Pitts (cntrabssn)
Junior Username: cntrabssn Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Randell, I'm not a member of the Alembic staff, I'm just a fellow club member chiming in on this one. The answer to your question is "yes", but I just don't remember how long he played one. If I remember correctly, you can hear it on the album "Hardness of the World". There was actually a picture of him playing a Series I on the back cover or inner sleeve. I believe he eventually switched to a Jazz Bass. Maybe someone can add some more info on this. - nate. | ||
| Alfredo (kayo)
New Username: kayo Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2002 |
Hey what up? I am a huge SLAVE fan from the late 70's....until their demise in the mid 80's. My real good buddy Wayne Foote took over Stevie Arrington's (former lead singer of SLAVE)spot when Stevie quit to become a gospel artist.. and I actuallly got to see them perform once before they disbanded... ultimately Mark became a crackhead...... but the point is I got to meet him... and I (being as curious as you are about his unique sound considering the time frame we are talking about) realized when I saw him play in Wayne's garage that it had a lot more to do with his unique technique (fingur pressure, attack, sustain, release... not unlike Jaco P who had an amazing envelope too (ADSR) and he could practically reproduce it on any bass however cheap and crappy it was). But, yes he did play an alembic (I never saw it but was told) and he used flanger heavily too (BOSS). He was laying down the SLAP way back then when only he and Larry Graham were really known for it in the funk circles.... | ||
| Randell W. Curry (hifibassman)
New Username: hifibassman Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
thanks guys! that confirms it. Mark had some awesome sustain effects coming out of that Alembic. He may have used a Jazz bass on some recordings but i don't think that bass could have that powerful, awesome tone that he was cranking out- let's just say i didn't hear it on any of the albums i have. I have most of Slave's albums and from what i can hear on these he never used the "Q" switch in high position. I think he got that raw, powerful tone sound by turning up the trim pots for both pickups on the back of the series one to maximum. | ||
| Mica Wickersham (mica)
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 640 Registered: 6-2000 |
Thanks for all the help... this is a question that I wouldn't have been able to answer. The Alembic Club members to the rescue again! | ||
| Dave Houck (davehouck)
Junior Username: davehouck Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2002 |
This brings up a question. In previous threads there has been discussion about using the trim pots to balance the sound between pickups and to make sure you don't send to much signal to an amp that can't handle it; but I don't recall any discussion about using the trim pots to change tone. Randell is suggesting above that part of Mark Adams' sound is a result of the trim pots set to full. Anybody have any thoughts on trim pots and their effect on tone? Thanks, Dave | ||
| Mica Wickersham (mica)
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 644 Registered: 6-2000 |
The trimpots are not tone controls. The 2 outside ones adjust the gain, the other 2 adjust the hum balance. Here's a post about adjusting the hum balance: http://alembic.com/club/messages/394/1726.html?1031705776 | ||
| Dave Houck (davehouck)
Junior Username: davehouck Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Mica; I guess what I was trying to ask was whether turning the gain all the way up might to some extent overdrive the signal, thus effecting tone, similar to turning up the gain on the input side of an amp. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Manfred de Rooy (mdrdvp)
Junior Username: mdrdvp Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hi everyone, Great to hear there are still people listening to that stuff. As a huge Slave fan myself I was highly influenced by his sound. It indeed has a lot to do with finger pressure. A great way to get blisters on your fingers. I even burned my fingertips with that technique. To get that monstertone you have to hit the strings pretty hard and use a lot of pressure when you slide. You get a sound like you are plucking a string but you don't slap the string. Hmmm, hard to explain. Listen to the sound on the lower strings. You can almost hear every fret. Try it. If anybody know what these guys are doing, please tell me. Best, Manfred | ||
| Manfred de Rooy (mdrdvp)
Junior Username: mdrdvp Post Number: 15 Registered: 7-2002 |
I forgot something. I'm talking about the early stuff and songs like "Feel My Love". The other songs are slap techniques of course. | ||
| Randell W. Curry (hifibassman)
New Username: hifibassman Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2002 |
The tones that Mark Adams produced were a little different than a traditional series one tone at that time. But you can definately hear the Alembic audio signature on it- there's no doubt in my mind that this sound couldn't come from any other bass but an Alembic series. Maybe I'm guessing this wrong, but there had to have been some type of modification or gain increase on that sound because the tone was extremely thick. Maybe it was the way he recorded it- on some records it sounded like he went direct into the sound board. When you increase the gain of both pickups to a degree short of distortion on a series one, does it not thicken the tone mixture a little bit (not changing the actual tone, but just makes it sound more agressive)? | ||
| Randell W. Curry (hifibassman)
New Username: hifibassman Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2002 |
I just thought of this... maybe both pickup positions on that particular series one was a little closer to the neck which would yield a fatter, more powerful bass sound. Mark definately had something going with that instrument that most other series basses weren't quite sounding like at the time. And i don't mean the flanging he did either. Listen to the album with "snap shot" on it and check out "funkentown" and some of the other ones that he didn't use a flanger on. You'll see what I'm trying to say. (sorry i'm at work, the album is at home and i don't remember the title) | ||
| Joey Wilson (bigredbass)
Junior Username: bigredbass Post Number: 47 Registered: 9-2002 |
Dave: Regarding the trim pots, tone, etc.,: In general, as pickups are raised closer to the strings, several things happen. The output will rise as the coils in the pickups are excited more by the string movement the closer they get to the strings. As this happens, treble output will rise and lows will tend to roll off as well. The pickups will sound progressively 'hotter' the closer they get to the strings. And noisier: You'll begin to hear string noise, fret rattle a little more. And you can run into 'magnetic damping', where the sustain tends to get diminished due to the magnets' proximity to the strings; not a problem with ALEMBIC pickups, but can happen with seriously hot guitar pickups like Duncan Invaders or DiMarzio SH2's. Or bass pickups like Seymour Quarter Pounders. These effects are not as pronounced with ALEMBIC or other so-called 'low impedance' pickups like EMGs or Barts. These pickups tend to be relatively weaker magnetically and the gain is made up with the onboard preamp/active electronics. The problems listed above are part of the cluster of problems that led Ron to invent this type of pickup. You see, the real black art/science blend of skill and ears and science is what separates pickup guys from the rest of us mere mortals. Having set this up, now I can explain where the trim pots come in. How high you set your pickups is a subjective decision based on what tone YOU like. There is no 'right' answer. Once you get them just like you want them, you are now stuck with the output the pickup height has given you. On two pickup basses, this could be a lot louder on one than the other. Bridge pickups tend to be softer because the string is moving a lot less that close to the bridge. So now when you dial up the 'both pickup' spot on the selector, it's probably going to be REAL 'bassy'. Or maybe you cranked the bridge pickup right under the strings, and now both pickups sound just like the bridge pickup alone. The trim pots are a small stroke of genius in that you set the tone of each pickup EXACTLY the way you like it without worry of the output. Now you can use the pots to match volume, make it neck- or bridge-pickup heavy, and set the gain to match your amp. You're right, you can run them hot to push your amp a little more. But of course, that part is VERY dependent on the amp you're using, as different rigs will have more headroom than others. I used to use a Yamaha bass preamp that I could NEVER overdrive. There's a huge difference in tone between both pickups jacked and the trims wide open, and a very moderate height set-up (say, 1/4 or 5/16" clearance) and the trims set around 12 o'clock. And again, the rig you're playing into will accept these settings in its own way. As always, YOUR sound is the result of a CHAIN. It includes the pickup setup discussed here, your cables, your strings, is the AC in the wall plug clean or noisy, and on and on. Best Regards, Joey Wilson | ||
| Dave Houck (davehouck)
Junior Username: davehouck Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Joey for a very good explanation. This matches observations I've had with trying different trim settings and pickup heights; and explains why I don't notice the effect on tone of the trim being all the way up as much with my current amp as I did with my previous amp. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Gerald E. Greene (flash)
New Username: flash Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2002 |
Hey Randy: Flash here what's up? Check out my responce in owning an alembic under(Mica: graphite rods)I put it in the wrong spot the other day. peace. Flash | ||
| Gerald E. Greene (flash)
New Username: flash Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2002 |
Mica: what's up girlfriend!!! gotta a "Q" for ya I have an 82 distillate "which needs to be corrected in my profile , by the way!" I love the scale, the feel and every thing about that bass. I specially like the body style of it; How much and how difficult would it be to have a series I six string made with that body style? I'm talking the short horn version, circa: 82ish!? thanks! Flash |
