| Author | Message | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hi, I set an email to Alembic yesterday, but never got a response today so I decided to post here. I plan on buying an ERB soon so I want to compare companies. So does alembic make ERB's? Thanks. | ||
| tbrannon
Advanced Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2004 |
They have and I'm sure they will in the future. Check this 8 string. Here is a bass they made for Trip Wamsley- 24 frets, but certainly extended range... These are just two that came to mind, I'm sure they've made others. | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2006 |
Wow, that must have cost a alot that they didn't display prices. Guess no Alembic for me. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3697 Registered: 6-2000 |
Hi Jordan, You can order as many strings and frets as your music requires. Please contact Valentino by phone or email with your specific questions. Our phone number is (707) 523-2611 and his email is valentino [at] alembic [dot] com | ||
| the_8_string_king
Intermediate Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 193 Registered: 9-2005 |
Jordan, my 8-string Europa that Toby linked you to is indescribably fantastic. It has the same range that a 7-string with a 3 octave/36 fret neck has -5/12 octaves. It was/is expensive, but it also has QUITE a long list of pretty elaborate custom features that significantly increased the price... custom stereo electronics with 3 separate jacks and bass, mid, treble, and filter controls and variable "Q" functions for each pickup, along with LEDs, LOTs of ebony in the neck, some pretty fancy custom woodworking, and several other features. Alembics are the best, period. And they're not known for being cheap (in any sense). But if you had Alembic made you an extended range bass with otherwise basic stock features, it probably wouldn't be too bad. If you just had them build you say, a Europa or Rogue with a standard wood top (several choices for no extra cost) and stock electronics, it wouldn't be terribly bad. No one will build you a better bass. They'll do it just the way you like. And the standard price quote for any neck-thru model includes a half dozen or so wood choices for the top, different wood choices for the body, and no charge for you own individualized fingerboard dimensions (for most "non-extreme" options). If you have any questions for me, feel free to ask. I have some meaningful perspective and experience in this area that may be of help to you. I'm actually getting ready to order my second custom in the next year. It will also be another "extended range bass"... a 6-string with 29 frets (same range as a 7-string with 24 frets). It will be a smaller & lighter complement to "8-strings of power." I'm actually currently soliciting opinions from others about it in another thread. Again, if I may be of service to you, let me know. I can tell you from experience that they are most capable of building an EXCEPTIONAL extended range bass. You would be most pleased. Take care, Mark. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2048 Registered: 9-2003 |
post deleted (Message edited by kmh364 on October 25, 2006) | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
New Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hey, Mark, your COTM feature just says "custom electronics with 3 jacks" and there's no FTC on it - would you mind giving details? What are the functions of the different jacks? Are the b/m/t master or per p/up? Are they switches or CV? How about a close-up pic? (Just because I don't play bass and have no money doesn't mean I'm not plotting a custom in my head.....)(And just how big are your hands to play that monster? I have trouble reaching on my son's 34" 4-string.) Peter | ||
| the_8_string_king
Intermediate Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2005 |
Peter, if you go into "introductions" and open up the "Archive through November 9th" and open the thread "allow me to formally introduce myself" you can see a close up of my basses' controls. There are 16 controls, 8 knobs and 8 toggle switches. The controls are set up in a symetrical set-up, with the exception of 2 toggle controls. The 2 center knobs are master volume and balance. The balance is a unique custom stereo balance control. The center jack is standard, and then each pickup has it's own jack -for individual processing. I can use them in any combination, although logic sez to use either the center or the other two. To either side of the balance and volume are filter knobs, and then again, to either side are bass and treble knobs. So each pickup has bass, treble, and filter knobs. Then, to either side of the upper center volume knob are 2 sets of toggles (for each pickup) between the volume and treble knobs. One switch is a 3 position Q (4/8/12) and the other switch is a 3 position control switch which decides between: filter off (turning the filter won't affect the sound), filter on with 0 db Q, filter on with Q -4/8/12 db depending on the position of the Q switch. The remaining 4 toggles on the lower level between the center balance and the bass controls on either side are: a mid-range "boost/cut" "quick tone change" controls (one for each pickup, they work just like the controls on a Europa or Rogue), and then, next to the balance on one side is a 3 position power control. Center position is off, up is on, down is alternate battery AND LEDs on. The final 3 position toggle is a custom "stereo switch". In the center position, each pickup has it's own set of 6 tone controls (bass, mid, treble, filter, Q, control switch). If I flick the stereo switch to one side or the other, it "assigns" that pickups tone controls to become MASTER tone controls for BOTH pickups. I can use this to choose whether to have individual tone controls for each pickup -for more detailed processing- or to have the simplicity of a mono bass with only 1 set of tone controls for each pickup. I can also use the switch as an instant radical tone change, that allows me to "store" 1 tone control setting on one of my pickups set of tone controls, use the other pickups controls for a different tone effect, and then just select or "come back" to the other tone with the simple flick of a switch. It's pretty cool. Gotta go to work, but I had just enough time to answer you questions -and thanks again for your help and opinions answering mine! | ||
| cozmik_cowboy
New Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks, Mark - and Wow! That's amazing. It's also very close to what I had thought of, should I win the lottery, but figured wouldn't fit. But, as I was thinking a mere 8 knobs and 7 switches, I'm reassured. Now if someone would put in a kind word with Ed McMahon....... Peter | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hi Mark, Im sure Alembic does make good basses, but over prices for sure. I don't have 10,000 to drop into a bass, especially when I can get a bass of similar quality for substationally less. | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 105 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jordon, For now you should look into Conklin Groove tools or a used guitar on ebay. Until you actually hear an Alembic and try one for yourself, you will never understand the difference in build quality and sound. They are miles above the rest. If you cannot afford the very best you will need to compromise your sound. Some people accept this, others won't. This is your decision alone. The members in this club are dedicated Alembic fans who know the difference. Price is no object for them in obtaining their sound. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 869 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually, if you begin to add up the labor alone for the time spent building these things (Alembic basses and guitars), they should cost more than they do... John | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1096 Registered: 6-2002 |
Keurosix, As an Alembic owner, let me tell you that price really IS an object. I managed to buy my first - a brand new Epic - when the Dutch guilder/US dollar ratio was heavily in my favour (1994). My second, a 2nd hand Spoiler, was before the recent rise in 2nd hand prices. As much as I would like to order one to my personal specs, I can't afford one that I would like to have built for me. | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hi Kris, Sound is rather more of an opinon peference. Naturally Alembic owners will perfer them to basses such as Conklins or Roscoes, but saying one is better than the other is an opinion. As for Groove tools, I don't think in making cheap stuff overseas is right. I can see if you have the money you would by an Alembic, but spending that much on a bass is crazy in my opinion, especially if its a knock off thunderbird or explorer. Thanks for answering the questions. Im out of here. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 828 Registered: 2-2006 |
"Knock off" ? What-chew-talkin' 'bout Willis?  | ||
| the_8_string_king
Intermediate Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 196 Registered: 9-2005 |
Jordan, just to be clear, I don't care what you get, and honestly hope that you're happy with what you get. I have absolutely no vested interest in persuading you to get anything. However, philosophically, I'm a proponent of truth and objectivity, and while beauty and preference are, of course, in the eye of the beholder... there is a truth here. Alembics are the best; they're far superior to anything else (that I know of, at least). I don't say this because I like them; I like them because it is true. No one else comes even close to having Alembics' experience. They are renowned for -among other things- having the very finest electronics, the very finest and most experienced craftsmen, and using the finest materials according to uncomprimising principles. There's a lot of nice basses out there. But I don't know of any even close to Alembics; if you do, please let me know, because I'd be VERY interested in considering a custom from ANY company that can make a "bass of similar quality for less." I WOULD BUY SUCH A BASS IN A HEARTBEAT. So please, let me know, if there is such a bass and such a company. But -no disrespect intended- it has been my experience that the ONLY people who don't recognize Alembic as the best are those who haven't seen, heard, and played them. They're FAR superior to anything else. I just don't know of ANY instrument makers that CAN or do make "instruments of similar quality"... for any amount of money. I respect Conklin instruments, and I think they're a great company. They make some really cool instruments, and I respect their accomplishments and contributions... but they are NOT Alembic... they're not in the same class. They're not even close. Nothing sounds as clear, clean, and natural as an Alembic. And no other instrument I've ever heard plays any better. They are definitely expensive; and there are definitely plenty of FINE instruments out there which are a LOT less expensive; many Alembic owners -like myself, to be sure- wait decades and save for years (like myself, again) to get one. We do it because we want the very best -and that's what they are. By all means, get what you want. If "less expensive" is your greatest priority, then you almost definitely DON'T want an Alembic... it just won't fit the bill. (Although patient and savvy buyers can sometimes score some good deals on the used market, and there's a lot of good stuff out there. (Of course, there likely aren't many used "extended range Alembics" out there...) But your comment about "knock offs" indicates that you really aren't familiar with Alembic, their instruments, and their quality and performance; no one who is would ever be able to make such a statement with a straight face. By all means, get what you want, and what you like. If lower cost is your greater priority, go for it, there's nothing wrong with that. But try to play an Alembic sometime, when you get a chance, just so you have the benefit of the experience, so you can form your own conclusion. And Conklin makes a great bass, although they're at least 2 points down from Alembic, on a 1-10 scale. But they're good instruments, and relatively high quality, for sure. And PLEASE... -I'm serious here- let me know if you do indeed know of anyone who can make a bass of "similar quality" for "substantially less. I might become their customer. I'd be VERY interested in knowing of anyone who could make an instrument of similar quality, period. I don't know of any such maker, period. I've seen SOME (older) Spectors and SOME Ken Smith basses that seem close... and a couple individual basses (Koonitz and Pedullas) that were close... but by and large, I'm not aware of any other instrument maker that can CONSISTENTLY produce instruments of "similar" or near-similar quality. As I'm certainly NOT prepared to claim to know everything, nor what you do, I realize that you certainly know things I don't do, and possibly know things about instrument-makers that I don't. So I would be most grateful to know of anyone who could make similar instruments for less money. And if you respond, I'll check 'em out. But... I don't want to sound sarcastic -and I'm not- I won't hold my breath. Good luck getting the bass you want! If you're so inclined, I'd love to see what you get when you get it! You can get my e-mail address by clicking my member name -to the left of the post, upper left-hand corner. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 226 Registered: 3-2004 |
I certainly don't want to get into an argument about the quality of Alembic instruments, as they are certainly remarkable. But it is pretty hard to say that one manufacturer is the ultimate builder. I can think of a few things someone might perceive as detriments. For instance, I don't care for active electronics in a guitar, and Alembic doesn't build guitars without them as they have decided this is the optimal configuration. Another issue someone might raise is that the instruments are built by a team of people, rather than a single craftsman. People will undoubtedly argue that working as team contributes to the overall quality of an instrument, by allowing people to work at their specialty, rather than trying to be a jack of all trades. However, there is also a point to be made that there is a certain character imparted to an instrument which has been shaped by a single person's vision, not to mention that the ultimate end of having a team working on a project is the dreaded fate of mass production (but certainly not an evil I would accuse alembic of by any means). I also tend to be believe that Alembic has set their custom options at a level that is intended to regulate production, rather than as a true reflection of the associated cost. As an example, when I had my guitar built by Roger Giffin, I asked for a number of custom options; an ebony laminate in the neck, wood control covers and knobs, custom scale length and neck width. I paid about $300 for these upgrades, and without looking, I can guess that this would have been significantly more through Alembic. My personal opinion is that Alembic's pricing is reasonable. However, this is not because I believe making a top notch instrument necessarily costs as much as Alembic asks. I do believe that this is what is necessary for Alembic to make a top notch instrument. I have to believe that Alembic sets its prices to suit the market demand, and to place their prices any lower would cause them to be swamped with orders that would ultimately cause an increase in production, and a downturn in quality. If Alembic were to suddenly find itself without a long waiting list for instruments, one would reasonably expect their prices to drop. However, as things currently stand, one can argue that these prices are necessary for Alembic to maintain the integrity of their instruments. Ultimately, arguing that one high end custom instrument is better than another is like arguing that one genre of music is better than another. It all comes down to the eye of the beholder. All that having been said, my Giffin never sounds sweeter than when it is being subtlely caressed by my SF-2, so I would like to think I am getting the best of two worlds. I hope this doesn't step on anyone's toes, but I truly believe Alembic's pricing is more related to market forces than any other factor such as materials costs. Sure I could go out and buy a bunch of wood of similar quality for much lower prices than ordering it from Alembic, but at the end of the day I would probably end up with something that sounded like carboard and looked like roadkill. | ||
| xlrogue6
Intermediate Member Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've played a lot of basses over my 30 years as a bass player, and worked on a lot more. I can say without reservation that few, if any match Alembic's build quality and attention to detail on every single bass they make. (Full disclosure: I worked at Alembic for a year a while back--while Mark's bass was built, as a matter of fact. Seeing the QC on a day to day basis was a real education.) Additionally, Alembic is the only company I know of that designs and fabricates their own hardware, electronics, and pickups. Their prices seem to me to be very similar to other high end US builders of neck through instruments--checked prices on Foderas, custom Conklins, etc. lately? Sure you can spend well over 10K on a Series--but a Series is arguably in a class by itself. Rogues and Europas, IMO, are most comparable to the top of the line of other high end builders. I didn't understand this either until I played my first Alembic, an Epic 5 string--that bass changed my life! Within 2 years of getting that bass, my collection of 10 electric basses was down to 2 Alembics--one fretted, one fretless. Over the years I've moved from 5 strings to 6, and from Epics and Orions to Rogues. (OK, I do own a Dean 8 string for those rare occasions when I just gotta have those doubled strings--that's not often enough to justify getting an Alembic 8(yet!).) I love basses--I'm always checking out new stuff. Many of the instruments I've checked out have been very cool in their own way--but none of them do anything my Alembics can't do, and none of them can quite do all the things the Alembics do. I agree with Mark--I've seen some isolated examples of great instruments from several high end builders--but I've also seen very so-so work from the same guys. YMMV, of course--that's what makes the world go around! Good luck on your quest. | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 107 Registered: 10-2005 |
Jordon, You did not give us a lot of information. How many strings are you looking for? An extended range bass can be any bass with more than 4 strings. If you want a 5 or 6 string bass, there is no limit to manufacturers. However, if you want a 7 string bass or larger, than you want a custom-made guitar from a specialty manufacturer. You said you did not want an import, so you have limited your preference to U.S. companies. A 7-string custom US made guitar will put you in a Boutique category with a reasonably high price tag. While there are many young guitar makers out there who can fit the bill, I do not know of any that can share the history of guitar making like Alembic. Alembic was the first company to put their own high quality active electronics in guitars before anyone else. When they started to produce their own guitars they manufactured everything on the guitar except for the tuning pegs. They still do this today. They take pride in their work, and it is evident in every aspect. If you compare other Boutique guitars to Alembic, yes, you will find less expensive ones. I doubt that you will find any that have their own electronics too. You will find quite a few with Bartolini pickups and electronics. While this sound is very good – and it might be the exact sound you are looking for – you owe it to yourself to compare it to the Alembic sound. I own a Modulus Graphite 5 string Quantum TBX neck-thru bass. It came with 3 Bartolini pickups and a Bartolini preamp. It sounded great with new strings. As soon as the strings died, so did the sound. The Bartolini’s are very string-dependant for the final sound – rather a passive sounding active circuit. I replaced the electronics with a special Alembic Activator circuit, and now I do not need to be concerned with string life. The Alembic electronics are so lively that I can compensate for dead strings with a nudge of one knob. This guitar has so many sounds that there is no musical style I can think of where this bass will not fit like a glove. You mentioned that you did not want an Alembic because it is a “knockoff thunderbird or explorer”. “Knockoff” is one word that cannot describe Alembic. They were the first high-end electric guitar manufacturer, and today any boutique builder would be following their lead. Yes, there are explorer and thunderbird style Alembic basses out there. The fact is that customers come to Alembic and order custom instruments to their liking and Alembic makes them. These styles became very popular, and are still being produced today. Maybe you can find a Boutique bass at a very low price that will make you happy. We would like to know what you finally end up with. Have you looked into Roscoe, Elrick, or M Basses? Try www.extendedrangebassist.com. They frequently list new manufacturers who make ERB’s. Kris | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 603 Registered: 2-2005 |
No use asking Jordan questions he deleted his id. Keith | ||
| byoung
Advanced Member Username: byoung Post Number: 399 Registered: 12-2004 |
Maybe Jordon had a class, and he was experimenting with the dynamics of Internet social settings. ? Bradley | ||
| pace
Advanced Member Username: pace Post Number: 265 Registered: 4-2004 |
Too bad he left, I have a Conklin Nuwave 6er I'm going to get rid of soon... fer cheap! Just doesnt compare to my Essence 6... | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2005 |
Adriaan, In all fairness, I agree that price does matter. It should not be the MOST important or ONLY determining factor. My Europa 6 string is standard except for an upgraded top to AAAAA Quilted Maple. My Epic is standard. I chose to modify it with the AE-2 Filter. Alembic as WE all know makes a "Standard" guitar far better than most other manufacturers "Standards". I'm not even talking about the customs. Jordon had a negative perspective from the get-go. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1103 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kris, As much as price should NOT be a determining factor, it does throw up a threshold. I don't believe the prices are so high to discourage people from ordering one - it just takes more money to keep a small business running than a large business. | ||
| ampeglb100
Member Username: ampeglb100 Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2004 |
I love my Alembics, but I still love my other basses as well. Both of my Alembic's cost many times that of my other basses - but that doesn't change the fact that my other basses feel and sound like balsa-wood toys compared to my Alembics. Andy | ||
| xlrogue6
Intermediate Member Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2002 |
"No use asking Jordan questions he deleted his id." "Maybe Jordon had a class, and he was experimenting with the dynamics of Internet social settings." Or maybe he collapsed from information overload...we do tend to go on about our Alembics, don't we? | ||
| hifiguy
Junior Username: hifiguy Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2006 |
Having knocked around the high end audio scene for more than fifteen years, the last ten as a reviewer of some ridiculously expensive gear, I'm no stranger to price/value debates. With custom instruments it's always Alembic that's held up by the doubters as a symbol of wretched excess and in audio it's Wilson Audio Specialties loudspeakers. My lengthy experience with both Alembic and Wilson products has only come to convince me that both are priced with remarkable restraint as I have learned more about the effort and care that goes into them. As a first point, there are few if any economies of scale for manufacturers of small numbers of incredibly labor-intensive products. This is exacerbated when the materials used are exotic, scarce and difficult to work with. Alembic uses primarily exotic woods; Wilson Audio uses proprietary mineral filled polymers and specially made laminates in the cabinets of their loudspeakers. This means that the end products will be expensive by definition. Secondly, the level of workmanship, fastidious attention to detail and sheer perfectionism that goes into a Wilson Audio or Alembic product has to be seen, touched, heard, and experienced. While there are other fine products out there, in all areas of endeavor there is usually a recognized best of the best: the Bosendorfer piano, the Ferrari sports car, the Rolex watch, the Dunhill pipe. IMHO, the Alembic bass and Wilson loudspeaker are in the same club. Their excellence is bred in from the bones out, not added on to a competent but somewhat ordinary core. Another thing that sets Alembic apart from the other boutique manufacturers (apart from Roger Sadowsky - he is pursuing his own unique vision) is that they were the _first_ to do it. No one had ever done the sorts of things Ron Wickersham did with musical instrument electronics. His designs were so ahead of the curve that they remain so thirty five years later. No one had built basses in exotic shapes out of eye-poppingly gorgeous combinations of woods before Alembic. If you want to the real custom thang go to the place where it was all invented. The Johnny come latelies will never be able to exceed the original innovators. Pedullas, MTDs, Foderas, et al - yeah they are all nice enough but they fall short in the electronics department for me - I have always thought Bartolinis sound rather cold and inorganic where Ron's electronics maintain the woody and holistic quality that a great electric bass guitar should have. As for other basses, I own three besides my cherished Stanley Sig Std - a couple of FOJ Jazzes and a Warwick Corvette ProLine. The fretted Tokai-made Jazz and the Warwick are nice basses that I enjoy playing but they both do one basic thing with the main available tonal variation being more or less treble output. My Alembic can do all of the things those basses can do and so much more that it boggles the imagination. My Alembic communicates with me almost as if it's imbued with a spirit of its own (and in a way it is) where my other bases are well-made tools for making music. Nearly 16 grand is what it takes to buy a basic Series II. A pair of Wilson Audio MAXX 2s is $48,900. Unfortuately, that's what it takes to buy that kind of performance, and it simply ain't available anywhere else. Interestingly, Wilson is rumored to operate on the tightest margins in the loudspeaker business. Yet the demand for their products is so great that they are always back ordered for months and have had to expand their factory twice in the last three years or so. I suspect that Alembic is also on a considerably thinner margin than the likes of Fender or Gibson yet they, like Wilson, see demand that is consistently greater than supply. Like the Supremes sang, "you can't hurry love" and both Alembic and Wilson pour love of music and craftsmanship into their remarkable products. They are not bargains, they are something better - they are worth every last penny of their princely retail prices. About how many consumer products can that be said with a straight face? When it comes down to what counts the most, only an Alembic is an Alembic. There are no substitutes Paul | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 470 Registered: 4-2005 |
yeah! | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 203 Registered: 9-2005 |
Couldn't have said it better myself! | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2006 |
You guys took what I was saying out of context. Of course Alembics are nice, althou I havn't played one, they have a good rep. However, I think companys should make their own designs instead of making copys, or as I like to call it knock offs, of other companys designs. We see it all the time with Fenders, and in Alembics case, Gibsons. Custom or not, its unoriginal. Unoriginality doesn't mean their bad, just unoriginal. Didn't mean to stur up a fight, its almost as bad and telling an atheist about Christ, they start to flip out on you. Just getting things streight. | ||
| hifiguy
Junior Username: hifiguy Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2006 |
Point taken, but the "knockoff" designs that Alembic has made over the years have been specifically at the request of customers. To wit, it was the late great John Entwistle who commissioned the first Explorer-style basses. It was popular enough with Alembic Nation that the Exploiter was put in the catalog of optional shapes. The double cutaway Les Paul shape is echoed in the Skylark, but the Skylark's proportions are different. It's a basic, elegant, proven shape that guitarists have admired for generations. For sheer Alembic originality, check out the Balance K bass and the Little Darling guitar - kissin' cousins shapewise and two of the most drop dead gorgeous instrument designs I've seen in 35 years of playing. Cheers Paul | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 233 Registered: 4-2005 |
If one of the most famous rock bassists asks a company to build an instrument, and his fans then want the same bass, a company would not be maximizing its profit potential if it did not pursue such avenues regardless of body style. The Alembird is not Alembic's vision of a bass. It's one of their customer's ultimate combination of form and function(has anyone seen Alembird #2?). One could pretty much assume Gibson could sue Alembic for unlicensed use, but they don't and can't since Alembic can make a one off custom instrument for anyone in any body style their customer might choose. That's not copying or being unoriginal. That's customer service and their own never ending quest for perfection. It seems you dismiss the innovations and instruments that actually created the Alembic tradition, such as the large and small standard point shapes, Jerry's guitars, rack mount preamps, active electronics along with the use of filters, and the modern 5 string bass to name but a few. So who is copying who? Does that help set things straight? T | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 471 Registered: 4-2005 |
A lively discussion on various musical instruments - on a website hosted by a specific company - should not be compared to witnessing about Jesus Christ. I think you know that is true. I also think you are trying to 'stur up a fight.' David | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 234 Registered: 4-2005 |
A couple other points to ponder. Check out this COTM, Nov 2002 Autumn's Delight: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_rod.html . Susan wouldn't make a copy, it had to be "Alembicized". The Alembird's owner is a VERY good customer with multiple Series instrument purchases. He had asked Susan to build this bass for years as stated in the COTM page for this bass. Susan must have said "No" initially. It's not difficult to understand that Susan would build such a bass to celebrate their wonderful business relationship and personal friendship after so many years. And JE, of course, is JE. That's the context these "copied" instruments should be viewed in. T | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 205 Registered: 9-2005 |
Alembic is nearly synonymous with originality (and/or "innovation".) In virtually every respect. At least when it comes to musical instruments. But just to be clear here, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of their instruments shapes are original. Like the newer Balance K and Darling instruments, but also the original Series instruments, the Scorpion, the Triple Omega, the Europa and Spectrum instruments, the Elan, the Spoilers, the Further, the Skylark. Referring to the VERY SMALL percentage of Alembics that are copies of other instruments bodies, and then using that as some "stepping stone" to form the generalization or charactorization that Alembic is "a company that produces knock-offs" (while true) would be silly. I'd love to hear of ANY other company that comes close to the LONG LIST of original body shapes -awesome, wonderful, innovative, beautiful and functional body shapes Alembic has in their repertoire. Also, there's a significant logical error here -which may be lost on those ignorant of Alembics. The whole essence of Alembic instruments is originality and innovation, and the form and substance of an Alembic is originality and innovation manifested in physical form. To form a conclusion to the contrary based on form alone is to confess one's lack of understanding of the subject matter. To be blunt, Jordon, the "unoriginal" comment is just too silly for me or anyone who knows Alembic to take seriously. And it does seem perhaps like there is some negativity in your perceived demeanor. You lost me with the boogie man comment, but it does seem intentionally inflamatory. If this is not your intention, perhaps an alternate approach would better convey your meaning. (Message edited by the 8 string king on November 01, 2006) (Message edited by the 8 string king on November 01, 2006) | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2006 |
No im not trying to stur anything up, but I quit trying, its pointless. Hope you all enjoy your instruments. | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 110 Registered: 10-2005 |
Welcome back Jordon? Goodbye? Glad to see that you are a man and can take our criticism. Thanks for admitting that you never played an Alembic. I must reiterate: until you actually play one through an amp, you won’t appreciate it fully. In my 30+ years as a bassist, I have owned and played a lot of different brands in the search for “my sound” - from cheap to boutique! If you are concerned with build quality only, then there are numerous brands out there that will satisfy you. A boutique-built guitar feels great in the hands and can stretch your creative talent. But the true test of the guitar is how it sounds through the amp. This is where Alembic electronics shine! Imagine one guitar sounding like all the rest, and more! That is what you can expect with Alembic. It has to be experienced! There are a lot of beautiful guitars out there, and they feel fantastic in your hands. But if they only sound mediocre through the amp, what’s the point? To spend a couple grand on something that does not deliver is a couple grand that could have gone to an Alembic that will satisfy. Yes, you can add Alembic electronics to another guitar, or for under a grand get an SF2 super filter for ultimate tone shaping. But the synergy of the total Alembic package - Wood, build quality, electronics, their artistry and experience - is much greater than the sum of the parts. It’s what keeps me obsessed about their guitars. Have you found an ERB to your liking? We would like to know when you do. Hello, Hello?... Hmmm... It appears that He's no longer here again! Bye bye! | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 474 Registered: 4-2005 |
Jordan. Just in case you are still around: no one expects you to agree with everything everyone says here. I don't agree with everything everyone says here and certainly everyone does not always agree with me. I can tell you the Alembic Club members are dedicated to these instruments Discussions do get 'lively' and even more so when other instruments and makers are introduced. That is a big part of the fun. Come on back! You comments, questions and criticisms are just as valid as anyone here. ....It is not life and death (or eternal life and death)... | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2006 |
Wow kindness, I think Ill stay this time. Even If I decide on an Extended Alembic, it'll be a very long time before I could afford one. My Main concern is, can Alembic make a very nice ERB? I know they make nice 4-6 strings, and I saw that picture of the 8, but they don't build them that often. Im also looking at some Ken Lawrences. Main thing that concerns me is experiance in that area. Also, I don't know if any of you guys know who he is, but I really like the epic solo work Jean Baudin does. He plays most of his stuff on his Ken Lawrence (althou he does own an Alembic). I really like the sound of his bass in the song "Transcend". | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 876 Registered: 10-2003 |
Alembic can and will build anything you want, pretty much exactly the way you want it. That said, if you were to simply order an extended range bass it would be somewhat of a crap-shoot, because your expectations may well be radically different from the people designing the thing. If you approach Mica, Val, Susan or Ron with a reasonably complete set of criteria, then they will build something to match. If you then let them bounce ideas back and forth (with you and each other) you will likely discover a few things you hadn't thought of before and have those incorporated. The instrument would essentially be YOUR unique signature instrument, as mine is essentially MY unique signature instrument. Read through the Factory to Customer threads to get an idea of just how organic the process can be, and of the awesome depth of knowledge the folks at Alembic share and draw upon. I do think, though, that since each instrument is so unique that it's perhaps a bit dangerous to commission a work before you're really certain what you want, because however far from left-field something may be they will build it into a massively elegant musical instrument. And welcome to the club! John | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 112 Registered: 10-2005 |
Welcome back Jordon! I think that Alembic could build exactly what you want. A custom can get pricey, but it will be to your ultimate specifications. I copied some interesting links for you here. http://www.alembic.com/family/history.html This one details Alembic's history which should show you that they have been at it for quite a while, and should put your mind to rest about being qualified to build a custom ERB. Here are some more custom examples: http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_sixsen.html http://www.alembic.com/info/FC_stealth.html Here is the price list for the guitar lines: http://www.alembic.com/prod/prices.html And here are some links to Ken Lawrence basses. They look beautiful. I think for an ERB you are in the $4000. and up price range. http://www.luthiersaccessgroup.com/islawrence4.html http://www.accessbass.com/KenLawrenceUnity.html http://www.luthiersaccessgroup.com/lawrence.html How many strings are you thinking about? Fretless or fretted? # of frets? Scale length? You can also open a thread in the "dreaming... For now" section of the club to see who can help you narrow your choices. Good Luck in your quest. Kris | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 206 Registered: 9-2005 |
Like Kris sez, it's cool that you take criticism and respond like a civilized man, so I take you at your word, and also would also echo David's comments. And I also hope you enjoy your instruments. And I'd like to hear what you're planning, and end up getting. I actually thought about/considered getting as many as 10 strings (F#-Eb) with 40 frets!!! It would have been interesting, but I'm very glad I got what I did. I think the range of a B-F 7-string with a 3-octave neck is perfect... for me, I'm completely satisfied with that range. I've played a nice custom 7-string with a 24 fret neck made by a guy named... I think it's Michael Koonzt or something like that... and also a Sidewinder and another bolt-on Conklin. The Koonzt was really awesome -both playing and sounding- but I've never seen any others and have no other frame of reference about them in general. The bolt-on didn't impress me at all as anything special other than the 7 strings, and I think 28? frets, if I recall correctly. The Sidewinder was pretty nice overall, but again didn't strike me as anything special in the sound department. This isn't a put-down. It was a nice instrument which was easily superior to a long list of other less instruments... it just didn't strike me as anything special soundwise. But it was well-designed and constructed, and it played well and sounded well, certainly adequately or better. And of course it was only one instrument. Good luck with whatever you choose, and, should you be so inclined, I'd like to hear what it is. To echo what John said, Alembic can make whatever you want. If you know exactly what you want, they can make it happen. Again -as John said- they have great experience and can likely offer you some ideas you might really dig and not even be aware of. The thing is, WHATEVER you want... they can do it, and to be blunt, they'll do it better than anyone. But, it'll probably (almost certainly) cost more. But, as you yourself have observed, they're most capable of duplicating specific features that people want. A lot of people don't know some basic -but significant- knowledge about Alembic that club members take for granted. We take it for granted, but it's worth mentioning occaissionally -for the benefit of those who do/may not know. When you get a quote from Alembic on a neck-thru, you get a pretty significant range of CUSTOM options included in the quote at NO EXTRA CHARGE. Basic things of significance in this context include custom fingerboard dimensions within a flexible range of specs, usually a half-dozen or more attractive standard wood choices, no charge for fretless or lefty, and the ability to often swap (some) body shapes, and also choose the body woods (I think some options do have upcharges). That's a LOT of pretty significant options for no extra cost. These are built-in to the quote. I don't think the custom quote offers 7 or more strings, or more than 24 frets as options (although I could be wrong). But if you were to say, get a quote for a six-string Essence, and then just have 'em tell you how much more for however many additional strings and frets you might want... be aware that they would make the instrument with the scale length and fingerboard dimensions of your choice (extra long and other extremes are extra, I think), and also offer you several choices and combinations of attractive and functional woods at no extra cost. If you were to get a 7 string essence with an extended fingerboard and only one pickup, it probably would actually be fairly competitive pricewise to anything else you're likely to find, and far more satisfying. In any case, best wishes, and I'd like to hear what you choose. | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2006 |
I didn't realize the price included other options as no charge. I wouldn't say they can build better than anyone else, because thats kind of an ignorant assumption. Either way on what I choose, It won't be for along time. However, Ken Lawrence gets extra points in my book because hes a bass player, and focuses on basses, although he does do some guitars. Anyway thanks for the help. | ||
| jsaylor
New Username: jsaylor Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2006 |
+500 for Alembic. I just read on Wikipedia that Alembic does not endorse any players. I have been looking for a company like that. When im going to buy a high-end instrument, its going to be an Alembic. Thanks again for the help. | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 390 Registered: 3-2004 |
They built me a Spoiler 7 lined fretless in cocobolo with ph lams, crown headstock.  | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 207 Registered: 9-2005 |
That's awesome Danno! Is it medium scale? Howz the B-string sound? Yeah... I spoke with Valentino yesterday, and he advised me that another extended fingerboard for my next custom MIGHT be pricey... I have to wait and see. Maybe I'll end up getting a 7-string instead... but I want a 6-string with 29 frets. I'm hoping the upcharge for a 7th string and/or extra frets isn't too bad. It's a $500 dollar jump from 4 to 5 strings (on a Europa or Essence, at least) and an $800 jump from 5 to 6 strings -although that include 4 more neck laminates, while the 5-string only has 2 more than the 4-string. I'm "crossing my fingers!" Studly bass, Danno!!! | ||
| dannobasso
Advanced Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 391 Registered: 3-2004 |
The bass is a 32". The B is very full with the mass of the bass. The neck is huge! I can just bar the 3rd position (fret) all across the neck. If memory serves, it's about 4 inches across. It is one more string over wide "jazz" spacing that I have on a koa Spoiler 6. Just take the next custom one paycheck at a time. I usually sent a check every month or so while it was being built. That way the hits were evenly spread apart. I hope your dream will come true. | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 124 Registered: 11-2003 |
jsaylor, since there are some Biblical references here,the Bible says of Christ that if everything that He did were to be written down,there would not be enough room for the books in the world to contain them. In a similar fashion everytime I talk with either Mica OR Susan I find out about an instrument (or several) that was made for so and so or had this or that on them that never ever make it into these pages. Alembic is the best and has made more instruments,electronics,speaker systems and God knows what else for more people than anyone could possibly imagine. The founder of the company even makes custom telescopes etc. so besides being knowledgable they are also very humble friendly people. How many times have you read the sign"If you don't see it,ask!"? Well....? Good Luck and God bless. BK | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 220 Registered: 9-2005 |
I *GASP* finally got the quote for my second custom Alembic today, and was quoted $1125 for the 29 fret fingerboard and pickup-placement adjustment, and $1500 extra for upgrading to a 7-string! It's a shame, 'cause I really want the 29 frets, but at that price, it puts me in a position of having to consider passing on the extra frets or passing on another feature or two that I really want! | ||
| jsaylor
Junior Username: jsaylor Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2006 |
Mark, Just save up and get what you truely want. You'll be happier in the long run. Heres an idea though. 39" scale with 40 frets. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 224 Registered: 9-2005 |
Yeah, I think I'm gonna take the plunge, and get that extra feature, Jordan. It's pricy, but it comes with a guarentee... it'll be the best. My custom 8-string is by far the most awesome bass I've ever seen or heard, even over Alembic Series basses -though I'm sure the massive amount of ebony in my neck is a large part of this, and, to be fair, I've never heard a Series bass with ebony in the neck, which presumably would sound even better. This 6-string isn't meant to outdo it, but to actually be a more simple complement to it... lighter and more agile and ergonomic, with a shorter scale and a smaller, more compact fingerboard... and a very different sound, a coco bolo/mahagony dominated sound as opposed to the powerful ebony/maple dominated sound of "8 Strings of power." Anyway, I really want the extra 5 frets... this gives it the same range as a 7-string with the standard 24 frets -which is what I consider the minimum acceptable/desireable amount of strings and frets. This bass is going to have a small/narrow neck... almost as small as a 5-string... it'll have the range of a 7-string with the agility and feel of a 5-string... it should be a most awesome extended range bass. It'll have one octave less than "8 Strings of Power"... but I won't miss it for this bass... the 29 frets will be satisfactory... the paradigm of this bass is a more modest range, that of a 7-string with ONLY the standard 24 frets... But I'll tell ya, the range of 8-Strings of Power, the range of a BEADGCF 7-string with a 36 fret neck (5&1/2 octaves) is perfect for me; I occaisionally use the highest notes, but I never find myself wishing for more, or feeling dissatisfied that I don't have more. And now that I have a totally awesome sounding B string, I'm totally content, and don't really have much desire in a low F# string (unless I won the lottery, in which case I'd actually order a 6-string Triple Omega extended range bass, which would be tuned EADGCF an octave below standard, with an extra long scale and 31 frets giving it a high C same as a normal 6-string bass' 24th fret high C... but also starting/going AN OCTAVE LOWER!!!) But... UNTIL that happens... 8 Strings of Power and this gem-in-planning will meet all my extended range needs! (Message edited by the 8 string king on November 24, 2006) | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 405 Registered: 3-2004 |
I also suggest that you take the extra time (equals money) to get exactly what you want. Your 8 is a true work of art so you are used to excellence. The work usually takes longer than quoted so you have a few extra weeks (or Months) to pay for the baby. I say this because I got a custom bass without a maple top or sustain block. I didn't think it mattered on an Excel. WRONG! I had a second made with those as well as Europa guts. Live and learn I suppose. I wish you great success on your project. | ||
| hifiguy
Junior Username: hifiguy Post Number: 29 Registered: 10-2006 |
Hey Mark, I must admit I am curious - what kind of _music_ are you playing that you need 5.5 octaves of range? Just wonderin' I've never been able to get my head around a 5 or 6 string, though if my current band's prospects pan out I may have to check out a standard Orion or Rogue with "extra" strings. My "Isis" custom Series II comes first, though. Happy hols, Paul (Message edited by hifiguy on November 24, 2006) |
