| Author | Message | ||
| muller1007
Member Username: muller1007 Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mica, For insurance purposes I would like to obtain an official replacement value statement from Alembic, for my Series 1 bass #78-1020. Could you make such a statement for me and send it to my address? Thank you. Duncan | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 409 Registered: 5-2006 |
For insurance you'll need a appraised value from a certified valuer. I think 'De Plug' in Amsterdam does it... I guess an official replacement value statement won't apply for you since you bought it used. I think there's no way any insurance company is going to pay you $12000 for a stolen/broken bass for wich you've paid less than 2 grand... | ||
| muller1007
Intermediate Member Username: muller1007 Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for you response, FC. I know what you mean and you're partly right. I've managed to have my used Signature bass properly insured by producing both the replacement value statement and a value statement of an appraiser to the insurance company. I'm not expecting to get paid the exact replacement value, but it's definately possible to have it insured for more than the amount I paid for it. That is why I need both documents. Duncan | ||
| muller1007
Intermediate Member Username: muller1007 Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2002 |
Btw, of course hopefully I will never need to file an insurance claim!!! This bass is so precious to me, I will always handle it with the utmost care. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 410 Registered: 5-2006 |
It's a tricky business... I thought I had all my instruments covered, but that wasn't the case. For instance my ex '76 Gibson: replacement value approx 900/1000 euro's. If you don't have an official appraised value statement, the insurance company takes the new price which is approx $450 minus 30 years writings off. This will leave you with $10 or something regardless the price you've insured it for. Of course the insurance company's won't tell you this unless it's too late... | ||
| muller1007
Intermediate Member Username: muller1007 Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks for your advice... I'll look into it again and make sure I will do this properly. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 412 Registered: 5-2006 |
No problemo. There has been an article in the 'Gitarist' a few months ago about this. I'll see if I can find it. There's also a thread about this at the Basgitaarforum.nl with usefull info. Cheerz and good luck! Flip | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2002 |
Insurance is one of those neccessary evils. It seems that the companies are happy to take your premiums but when it comes to a claim they start by trying to work out how not to pay out. Fortunately I have not made any claims against my musical equipment policy but car insurance policies were a nightmare. I have my equipment insured by a company afiliated to the UK Musicians Union. When the renewal form arrives they ask me to make sure that the items are insured for their full replacement value. So presumably that means they charge the premium based on how much it costs to replace and certain risk factors. Again hopefully they will pay up enough to replace the item if a claim is ever made. Jazzyvee | ||
| worldfamousandy
Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 85 Registered: 3-2004 |
My insurance company tells me that it would be a simple matter, except that I use my instruments and equipment professionally. In that case, they are unwilling to cover my stuff under any circumstances. I am told that International Society of Bass can probably help me get coverage. I also hear that unions can help, but we do not have one here (at least, I have never known of one). Regular insurance companies get a little sketched out about this stuff, because it "grows feet" so easily. My experience with insurance lately has been horrible. Blue Cross of Wyoming seems to have implemented a new policy: deny all claims, and be prepared to negotiate when clients complain. Over clear-cut mistakes, they back down immediately. I'm guessing that some clients don't realize they can argue, or perhaps they lack the energy. Blue Cross comes out ahead, despite the handful of headaches they probably encounter along the way. I think the insurance industry is fairly crooked. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2002 |
Insurance is definitely one of those "damned if you do, really damned if you don't" things. If you make money playing your instrument, then you need to have coverage for professional use (often available through musician's union, but there are lots of private instrument insurance specialists as well). The coverage value is determined by professional appraisal which you would want to repeat every year or two. If you don't make money playing your instrument, then it can be covered under your homeowner's or renter's insurance, but the insurance company may impose coverage limits for instruments of high or collectable value. So, your Mexican Fender Jazz would be fully covered, your US Fender Jazz would probably be fully covered, and your new Alembic Series bass probably would not. In this case, you establish the value of the instrument by professional appraisal then have a discussion with the insurance agent about how much special coverage you require. This is exactly like coverage for jewelry - there's some nominal limit of coverage (often around $5000) and anything more requires proof and additional premium. Your receipt is a pretty good valuation initially and would not be contested if it's less then the limit of your policy. After time, they may try to argue that the value of your instrument is lower because of wear, but if the instrument is still in production, there will also be many market indicators of what a similar new or used instrument sells for. If you want to argue that rarity or collectibility have increased the value of your instrument over the time you've held it, you'll need a professional appraisal to back that up as well as having purchased additional coverage for the incremental amount. This is not an unusual occurance (collectibles are always climbing and dropping). One thing that doesn't help you much is if the new price of an instrument has radically increased over the years. If you bought a new Alembic last year for $10,000 and it's stolen, then it's likely that you might see $11,000 to replace it if you had appropriate coverage. But if you bought your Alembic new 10 years ago for $6000, you aren't going to get $11,000 now. If you bought a used 10 year old instrument for $2000 last year, then you should be able to get $2000 back, but the lofty prices of new instruments aren't a factor in a settlement. The only effect you'll see there is that the high new instrument prices might raise the current used prices a bit, but that's only a tiny fraction of the new price change. Although you see people asking $8000 for a used instrument that would cost $12,000 it's pretty rare that a sale like that ever closes without other factors (famous owner, etc.). Because of the way that the resale market works, you might pay $12,000 for a new instrument but recover only $3000-4000 if you immediately put it up for sale. The reality of pricing is what the pro appraisal is trying to reflect, with an eye toward condition of your instrument and some sense of the pulse of the used market. The final gotcha here is that the insurance agent is not particularly helpful at any point in the transaction. He's not going to volunteer that there are limits on your generic coverage unless you specifically ask, since that improves their ability to limit your claim in the future. If you're pursuing specialized coverage, he's not going to help you determine the proper valuation (beyond directing you to find an appraiser), again to limit liability. And if you decide that you want to purchase some huge amount of coverage "just to be sure", he'll happily sell it to you, but not tell you that you have to have an appraisal to establish the value in the event of a loss. There's nothing that stops you from insuring your beloved bass for $20,000, but if your only proof of value is a receipt that you paid $2000 for it, you're just throwing your money away. David Fung | ||
| jsaylor
Junior Username: jsaylor Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 |
What would they do if its an unreplacible instrument? Like a '58 Les Paul (my dream :p). Its not like you can just go on ebay and buy another. So if something happens to my Thuderbird, its covered under homeowners insurance? (Message edited by jsaylor on November 13, 2006) | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 214 Registered: 5-2002 |
The way the insurance company handles an irreplaceable instrument is that you get an pro appraisal of what it would be worth if one was on the market, and the insurance company would decide how much you'll need to pay to cover it. If your Les Paul is worth $30,000 on the open market, you can pay to insure that amount and get it if the instrument is destroyed. Whether you can get another instrument isn't really the insurance company's problem at that point. If the value of the instrument is really high, it may be hard to insure without you taking special caution with regard to storage or transport. This sort of thing commonly comes up with an instrument that's been owned by a celebrity. There's only one "Blackie" or "Wolf" and they are insurable, if costly. If you don't play for money, then your Thunderbird is normally covered as one of your personal possessions. If it's stolen when you were at a gig, then you may find that your claim will be refused, even if you don't play often or make much (or it might be OK). If you have a '62 Thunderbird, then it might be worth seeking a formal appraisal and checking with your insurance company to make sure that it's not over any limit on collectables or instruments in your insurance. The tough part is that by the time you own an Alembic, it's probably not your only fancy instrument. If your house burns down and all your instruments are destroyed, it's not hard to hit limits with a group of instruments. David Fung | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 609 Registered: 2-2005 |
A lot depends upon the insurance company and policy. In my case my instruments are covered under my home owners policy even if I play out and get paid. This is based on me only playing occasional gigs and the instruments being located and stored in my house. Since I have a full replacement cost rider for my household goods they will pick up the tab for replacement instruments that can still be purchased. For those that are not replaceable I need proof of ownership and documentation that can be used to establish value (appraisals and/or photos, receipts, similar sales, etc). When I was still renting however my renters policy would only cover the loss of instruments up to $5000 without a separate and very expensive rider. This also required I did not play for any monetary gain. From what I have seen here it would have been cheaper to get a separate policy from a company that specializes in musical instrument insurance. So as David said you have to ask a lot of questions to be sure you get full disclosure of your coverage and its limits. Keith | ||
| edwin
Intermediate Member Username: edwin Post Number: 196 Registered: 5-2002 |
Check out musicins.com. I have had coverage with them for a number of years now and they are quite reasonable. I have my '78 Series I listed with them for list price, although I wouldn't want to have to test it to find out what the payout would be! They cover everything no matter where it is. Edwin | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 634 Registered: 6-2002 |
The other thing to consider with musical Instrument insurance when you get cover for performing for financial gain or as a professional is International coverage. I have this but only on the two guitars that I take on the road with me. Beware though some countries are not covered like some of the former soviet block. Also Public Liability insurance is important too. With membership of the UK Musicians union you get a few million pounds of cover in case you knock someone on the head with your instrument or someone trips over your cables etc. Or God forbid you crack someones skull when you stage dive with your pointy headed Alembic. For some local authorities here, you need this indemity cover before they will allow you to do a gig for them. This is because if someone sues them over your negligence, they can sue you and get some money back. |
