| Author | Message | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 293 Registered: 3-2006 |
I'd like to hear from members who own an Alembic Bass guitar with such controls, wether with switch(es) or knob(s). Anything related - what does it do (i.e; were and by how much), how do you like it, could you live without it, etc etc... Then, how many of you would like see/have such control(s) on their Alembic instruments, and by the same token, how many of you would consider paying Ron for helping developing something like that, i.e we could gather and raise funds for his labour... I am thinking of a single "plug'n play" module like the low Pass filter for example (maybe with a knob to select the frequency an a Switch for boost/cut...). Many regards, LG (Message edited by lg71 on December 02, 2006) | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 982 Registered: 12-2002 |
 this one has series II controls with additional bass&treble pots for each pickup & LED dimmers ...I would like the same setup with a superfilter plus quick change bass/treble boost switches along with front a LASER-LITE built into the bass Outlining the shape of the Bass itself. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 295 Registered: 3-2006 |
That's a nice little big monster on the photo! Well, I'd be happy with even half of that bass (the top/front half/sliced).  Still got no low-mid/mid control though... Anyone else? | ||
| inthelows
Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2006 |
What are you trying to improve? Is the bass you're using lacking punch or are you looking for more control over the mids? BTW, I have a Spoiler, simple controls. Vol, filter and Q switch. When the Q is on there is marked increase mid punch depending where the filter is set. Seems that what you may be looking for is more along the line of a parametric EQ where more than one variable can be changed, kind of daisy chained together. NLP | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 231 Registered: 9-2005 |
My Custom 8-String Europa is the only Alembic I know of that has mid-range controls -one for each pickup. They are 3-position switches just like on the Distillate/Europa/Rogue (except they're mid-range, of course.) I find them to be VERY valuable -more than the treble controls, but less than the bass. (You could say, in the middle...) I use the bridge mid-control to boost, and have it on more than half the time I play; it adds incredible growl and bite. I never use it for cuts. Conversely, I rarely use the neck mid-control for boosts, but I often use it for a cut, and find it really enhances the whole "smile" curve thing; I'm most fond of boosting the bass of the neck pickup to maximum while cutting the mid. Both these switches are VERY useful -ESPECIALLY in conjunction with the filter and Q, which more often than not, function as the mid-range control. I really hate to not have these controls, and am actually bummed that I couldn't get one on my new custom -especially since I think they probably already have the specs from my old switches somewhere... but Valentino told me it would probably cost SEVERAL hundred $, and would likely entail a VERY long wait... after I asked him about it a second time, he said "how many YEARS could you wait?" Of course, he may have been exagerrating... but I got the impression it would take a while. Yeah, I'm all for mid-range switches -especially as a result of my personal experience with mine. I don't get why they don't have them as an option -especially for at least a simple 3-position toggle, when they've already got working specs. It could be there's some technical issue or challenge I'm not aware of. I've concluded that the 6 db setting is perfect for the mid-switch... more of a boost or cut is completely unnecessary. The one thing that would make it all perfect would be for there to be a 2cnd 3-position switch that selects the range to be boosted/cut... something that would choose between low mid/mid-mid/upper mid... If I could have, I'd have had my new custom Balance K with Europa controls have 3 knobs (volume/balance/filter) 4 toggles (bass/mid/mid-select/treble) and a 4-position Q! Hope this rambling helps! I'm with you. I wish they'd make this a standard option. And again, I don't think it would actually require any great work from Ron... he already did it. Just dig up my old specs... | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1408 Registered: 3-2004 |
I am a big fan of mid boosts as well. I do adjust the filters to try to get the boost in the right spot. I also use a preamp that has a semi-parametric mid control. In terms of non-Alembic electronics, I once had a Modulus that had boost/cut pots for bass and treble, and a concentric pot for mids that also allowed you to dial in a frequency center. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 296 Registered: 3-2006 |
I am not trying to "improve" or get more "punch" either... and I already have all the available "standard" Alembic controls to my fingertips, Bass/Treble cut/boost, dual Low-Pass Filters + 3 positions Q-switches. I know what those controls do very well, I spend hours playing with the Bass (and have tweaked plenty enough already...) nearly every night. That's on my heavy (looking to complete the lighter one soon hopefully) Arialembic LG MK2. So, those controls are very nice, yes, but it is not enough to shape/carve your own sound (at least AFAIC). Well, I have mentioned this before (you are welcome to do a search under my member name), and yes, a fully parametric Filter is what I'd like to have in the circuit (one per PU would be nice, two per PU would be very nice;)). BUT... But, you see, I was trying to keep this thread simple, because many members, don't know what a fully parametric filter is and or can do. Hence, I go, low-mid/mid controls... and most of us would understand I'd assume. Well, now, since you are the only one interested so far, I guess I can explain what my "problem"/wish is; - I need/want a fully or semi parametric Filter, that goes from/around at least 80HZ (200Hz would be max really) and up to/around at least 2KHz (higher value is always welcome), with at least 3 Q settings, notch/narrow, "normal" and wide (although that could be optional, but fixed a Q at least is obviousy needed) ... then a boost/cut/flat, either a dedicated knob or preset switches (a bit like what the Q-switch does). OK, that's the "dream", I mean, I don't think that Alembic has already created such a module for the bass guitar yet - I haven't hear about it... Yes I know, this can be achieved with an external hardware EQ/Filter, but my problem is that I have to do it "post" recording, meaning that I cannot get the sound I want while I am playing the Bass, I have to process through plugins afterwards. I don't have the relevant/suitable hardware, that's why it's post processed... What next, because I am recording/capturing the Alembic sound, I want to keep the signal as "Alembic" as possible and keep/retain the best out of it. If you get me? Let's say you run your Alembic through a cheap Behringer fully parametric EQ, it won't sound as good as if you ran it trough a Manley, or Pultec for instance... or a Superfilter SF-2 for that matter... So, you might be better of NOT using the lower end stuff in that respect. There is also the known fact that if you get the sound you want right from the source, it's always/usually best... of course, when you process the signal through expensive machine to change the color or tone on purpose, it does work well indeed. In "short", it's not to improve or get more punch as you mentioned, it's more to get "a" sound, "the" sound, "your" sound... I'd tell you a little secret, you might know it, many artist have their own sound because they have their own processing style and devices, it's a combination of many things, of course the playing style, strings, wood etc does count, but when it comes down to having a unique/signature sound, there are more steps involved than most people think. Oh yes! I'll give you an example, my older Brother James Jamerson plays an old Precision with high tension Labellas Flats, and when he recorded at Hitville Studio/Motwon, his bass was D.I (that's right, not mic'd/amped) through Fairchild and Pultec monsters, these units cost real BIG money today, so you can't buy them (but might be able to rent it). Of course James's playing style is unique, and no-one can imitate him, but at least, if you want a similar sound, you know what is required to get started. Then, how about Stanley Clarke? Oh boy, you have no idea... ask him... This is to say that all the unique players out there have their own unique setup, sometimes more, sometimes less. Usually, you are most likely to find out their secrets, once they are retired or live this world... PS: not that I am "selfish", but I have got my own sound/settings and wouldn't want to give away my ultimate/optimized EQ curve, that's for everyone to find it's own. Of course, I am the type of guy willing to help anyone to understand how to find this sound for their own purpose/taste. Each his/her own. The most important tools are Filters and Dynamic processors, as far as the Bass is concerned, for Reproduction, obviously, the better the amp/preamp the better it will sound. I hope that most of you don't think that I am a little crazy, all I can offer to you is this, try to run your Alembic instrument through a full Parametric Filter if you get a chance, and simply tweak it while you play, most importantly, if you do not understand the controls, ask around before you feedle with it, so you'll have a better experience. Then do the same experiment, but this time, jam other the radio, or any song you like, and tweak to your liking... then bypass/switch off the Filter/EQ... chances are, you will want such controls or your bass SO BAD... I came across a complete non-Alembic harness that does something like it, but it is not Alembic so there are NO "mix and match" possibilities there (it's the only harness I saw with such controls, but I haven't heard it). For my respect to Mica and Alembic, I would not provide a link to it. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 297 Registered: 3-2006 |
Well, Bsee first, I am glad to know that we are one the same wavelength on this one, I can understand why the Modulus are popular and respected too, sometimes people play an instrument, they fall in Love with the sound, yet, they don't know why... One day, they realize, they find out, because they have learnt and finally understand... I read you use the semi-parametric mid control on your preamp, I bet you use it all the time? The_8_string_king, I feel the sorrow and I am 100% with you. I spoke to Mica on the phone last week when I ordered my PUs, and I wanted to discuss Low-Mid/Mid range control... She replied exactly: "we are not interested in the mid/low-mid..."! Well, we are, aren't we!? Well at least it's three of us...  anyone else... OK, I couldn't argue with Mica, I was hurt and disappointed yes, but look at me, all I can afford new Alembic, is some PUs and a cap... So, I guess I was powerless and kept quiet... Hence, I though, well, they are not interested fine, BUT if we are interested, the only way to make it happen is to gather all members who would be willing to to raise some money, so we can approach Ron and then Ask him: How much would you need to come up with this or that... we could propose few options, to make it versatile and "cost controlled". It will work. Now that you are saying this sad news to me, about not being able to get a similar circuit to the one you had already done before... hummm, I don't have much hope anymore. I am not to impressed and very disappointed by the reply you were given. To me it sounds like work overload and pressure. Well, I offered to work there you know... I am like you on this one, I really don't understand why they are not "interested" in the low-mid/mid part of the spectrum, especially when it's the part that makes the bass "cut through" or "disappear", roughly speaking. I guess they are people who might play the bass by themselves then, i.e without background music, but still that part of the spectrum is too important for the bass, to be overlooked. Another thing, I know - they don't, they have no ideas how Powerful the circuit would become if they considered it, I mean that's what is really missing and lacking IMO, they've got a premium circuit, sound and PUs, and I predict that the Alembic sales would hit the rough if they considered it. What can I say, if Mica was my real Sister and Ron my real Father, I would have a real big argument with them two, and would try to explain things that I would certainly cannot discuss here in front of the members, for respect and privacy, and I will try to make it happen. Unfortunately, we can only argue with each other for now, until someone at Alembic is whiling to give us a genuine reason/explanation on why they are not interested (in making the instrument sound better and more versatile than it already is, that would be...). | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 937 Registered: 2-2006 |
This is a very interesting thread. I sometimes feel that I am the minority when it comes to “my” unique bass sound. I find that there is a lot of emphasis of MID range frequencies here on the Alembic forum as well as when I speak to other bass players as well as guitar players at the music stores. I find that a lot, if not most bass player boost their MIDS to some degree. I on the other hand have usually cut my MIDS and boost the lows and highs. I realize that your power (playing live through an amp or PA) lies in the MID range frequencies but I don’t like the hollow sound you get from the MIDs. This is just my personal preference. Neither way is right or wrong, just different. I have found though that with my Alembic and Warwick basses I usually run the MIDs flat or very, very slightly boosted. LG I do think that your playing technique defines your sound more than you may realize. I can let someone play my bass, through my rig set the way I play it and they sound all together different than I do. The same goes the other way around, I sound different on their rig (axe, amp, their settings). | ||
| inthelows
Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2006 |
I understand. I live near the town Billy Sheehan comes from and watched is growing pains with equipment and sounds. Eventually equipment with his name on it came to be only after years of experimenting and on the job workouts. To say the least everone goes through a period where you idolize, mimmick or copy someone elses equipment or sound on that path to your own. At some point reality kicks in and for what you hear in your head to become real you better your chops and technique and upgrade your equipment. Having said a mouthful, What you want exists, but not in any usable form that would fit into a conventional body routing. As T8SK mentioned he has dedicated mid controls on his custom, (and that would be the defining word) because unless it's put in there from the start most manufacturers rarely think in terms of anything more than hi and lo. Ah-la bass and treble. Equate the small pedalboard effects eq's and the size required to the body routing size. I'm sure it's possible some ic chip exists small enough to incorporate it into circuitry that would fit. But with out a market large enough to create the supply and demand assembly line rolling it would be a custom electronics package. Equals big bucks and mucho time. I know what you mean! I've used a stereo Ric for ages bassically triamp'd. The lows went thru a SAE pre amp and Biamp poweramp into two voice of the theater cabs. The bridge pup I split with one giong to a acoustic 370 head into a 4 x 12 cab and the other into a marshall superbass 100 into another 4 x 12 for the mids. Why? Because that was my sound. Before the 18's and all the extended range stuff you experimented, found something you liked and stuck with it. Now I agree for recording it would be great to have what you need at your finger tips. But I don't think they have made it small enough yet. It's out there. The trade off is how much are you willing to spend to have it fit? BTW, that rig set up has been retired. With the spoiler I go into a fishman preamp, DI out to the PA where I'm heard and use a hartke kick back 15 as a monitor. Much lighter and simpler, let the sound man do his thing. As far as recording the out from the preamp and out from the amp can be combined. The amp has a shape circuit which is really a parametric filter. Not on the bass but close enough to my fingers which I got to keep by not having to shell out big bucks. There is always compromise until I hit the lottery. Then imagination can run wild! NLP | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 298 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hi Olie, good to hear you taking part in this thread. Well, I didn't say that the playing style didn't define one's sound, but I do say that many top players have their little secrets, and I know so, BUT, most importantly - those "secrets" are often created by mix engineers first, this is another know fact, i.e some players have a unique sound in the Studio/Album, but sound VERY different when they play live. But once again, this is well know and obvious too that the sound starts in your hand, hence I said no-one will sound like Jamerson, not even his own Son. BUT, again, if you want to sound like you favorite artist, it always starts/help by using the equipment/ instruments they use. If one wanted to sound like Clarke, the first obvious step would be to play an Alembic... that's what I meant and mean - nothing less or else. But will ad something, say one day we meet, we have a go at the same bass amp/eq settings etc... OK, sure enough, we will sound different, BUT, most likely, after analyzing your style, attack, coordination, mute technique etc... I could probably get close to our sound, I am not saying that to claim that I will sound play exactly like you, but read next; Then, we start to alter the tone with the EQ etc... NOW, things get more complicated and trickier, because at that stage, it is physically impossible, "by the law of nature and physics..." to clone a sound just by "playing technique" if you alter the tone with drastic settings, whatever it might be, EQ, Dynamics etc... That's what I am trying to explain, which should be the first step and process to be taken into consideration. I hope I don't confuse anyone one again (I am the best at confusing;)). I short, the obvious and extreme example, if you play your bass and boost 8db at 300Hz, there is no way you can make it sound the same as if you cut 8db at 300Hz (well, unless you fingers are possessed, but then again, you might need some of those special Opium oil finish on the body, and playing in extreme hot weather, to make sure the vapor strikes trough...;) lol As for boost or cut, personally, I like to shape things up and to me both is good and has it's place, it sound different of course, but sometimes a cut works well with a song, and a boost better with an other, still, I really favor/enjoy the mid/low-mid "shaping". Regarding, having your on sound, I would say that the technology as made it even bigger, meaning that for instance, I could post process your Bass playing part with EQs, and it wouldn't sound like the original performance anymore, so, you could have different mixes/sounds out of one performance. Back in the days (I wasn't born not every player or studio has sophisticated equipment, and the post process was very limited, so in that respect, a Player, would have his/her own signature that would strike more. But nowadays, you can play any type of music, arrangement, accompaniments, harmonies and so on on a computer... and if you are a good engineer, your goal is to make sure that the Bass part sound its best in any contest, meaning that different style and sound is needed for different type of Music... | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1409 Registered: 3-2004 |
Well, the majority of what I do is fingerstyle in a rock setting. I need enough bottom end to rumble, but not so much that I would have to carry massive power and speakers with me to support it. I need a little bit up above 1K so that the bass doesn't sound dead, and to fill in the tonal range in a three piece band setting. The meat of my EQ work seems to be in between 150-1K or so. It's not an all boost range, but a little here and there gives me better note definition. This is the range I tend to pay the most attention to. I do drop out some mids or turn off the Q on jazzy tunes where I am looking for a more acoustic bass tone. I can also back off a little bit if I go to a pick or thumb. Fortunately, I have three position Q switches and the mid boost on my preamp is foot switchable. I pretty much use one setting on the mid boost and it is on or off. I may change it in a different room to get what I want to hear, but that's it. I appreciate what everyone is saying here and support the request for better mid control. That said, I really don't need any more controls on my bass. If I couldn't get what I wanted, I'd look to an SF-2. If I needed greater versatility to make quick/easy changes, I'd look for some sort of programmable EQ that would allow the storage of multiple settings for easy swaps. There are plenty of onboard preamp systems out there with a semi-parametric mid control. Usually, when people ask why we are willing to pay for Alembic basses, the answer is their superior electronics. LG, you must agree to some extent since you are sticking Alembic guts in other wood, right? Alembic must be doing something right. If this is one of the limitations we must accept to get the rest of the package, then that's okay with me. | ||
| georgie_boy
Intermediate Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2005 |
I am totally enjoying this thread guys!! It's great to hear such technicalities discussed in detail, especially for someone like me who is very interested in that kind of discussion but is unsure in how to actually achieve some of these mystical sounds. The idea of parametric EQ has been in my head for a LONG time. Keep talkin' !! George | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 938 Registered: 2-2006 |
I agree LG about the recording bassist' sound being reduced to what the engineer or producer likes. I've doen a lot of studio work in the past as a hired gun from people that heard me live and hired me because they like my sound. Then once I hear the finished product it sounds nothing like me. I too like a paramatric EQ. Only being able to boost or cut the exact same frequincies is pretty limited especially when you factor in room size, shape, the humidity and even materials in the room (metal vs cloth covered chairs, brick vs sheetrock walls, etc.)changing your acoustics. | ||
| inthelows
Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2006 |
In my setting the control over frequencies is required so you don't stomp on what else is played and having it sound muddy or boom'y. I agree with Olie that a wide spectrum has to be available to work with and as I said earier and along with bsee, the stuff is out there. Moog 's had parametric's since the 80's. The gibson planks with compressors and sustainers and active eq's were supported with moog technology. As far as live vs studio and the engineer goes my own experiencies taught me to believe that a good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold when he's familiar with what you sound like and faithfully reproduces your sound. I've also been the victim of over production. Primarily because you don't have the final say about the end products overall sound. Back to the beginning, I work with electric piano, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, percussion and vocals. The question is what do I need to keep the overall sound clear, distinct,and have all the instrumentation descretely voiced so if you wanted to you would be able to pick out a particular voice. LG along with the comment about the bass sound and the engineer..the bassist needs to tell the engineer this is what I want people to hear. Also the bassist needs to have that say in the matter because if your opinion can be over-ruled and someone else controls the post production sound like olie said, no matter what you thought you sounded like, things change at the control console. The impression I get at times is some people want to have the creative license to sound different live, others don't. Now several factors have been mentioned that effect sound. Live you are relatively limited to the area you're in to "hear" what you sound like and need the soundman to extend your sound outward. In the studio you have more control initially but he who rules the post production controls has the final word! With respect to artists sounds, I've had the pleasure to see many and its true they have thier own sound. I've also seen many tribute bands and with your eyes closed it would be hard to tell them apart. A testiment to time and good effort put into creating that sound. At the beginning the question was does the mids have controls? You mentioned you have a harness. Care to elaborate? Is it a CVQ? NLP (Message edited by inthelows on December 03, 2006) | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 299 Registered: 3-2006 |
I'll be back later on today for more... lol Right now, we are going to watch "School of Rock" with Jack Black on TV, a really cool movie, we saw it once and really liked it... I like this guy, he is very peaceful and positive, and funny of course. Later, LG | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3828 Registered: 6-2000 |
Louis-Gino, When you ask me my opinion about something, like do I like mid-range in bass tones, I will tell you my opinion. As far as I am concerned, we're not really interested in these frequencies in a band setting. This is not an argument. It's an expression of an opinion based on years of observation both in live and recording studio settings. To my ears, much of the midrange interferes with distinct bass sounds, and muffles subtle techniques of even skilled players. As I've told anyone that inquires about mid-range controls, we have a mid-range control under development, to be released toward the end of 2007, first as direct retrofit for Music Man basses. Your projects are usually urgent, and so I suggested an external SF-2 Superfilter in our last conversation. As I recall, you are recording from your bass to your computer, and that using a SF-2 would mean changing your whole recording process, which you were not prepared to do. Perhaps some other folks that are using the SF-2 in a similar environment can give you some advice about adding this to your signal path so that you can start enjoying the added control over your sound. Although the interface is not as straightforward as a parametric EQ, and you've expressed your deeper understanding of this circuit, the SF-2 gives an even more precise amount of control than a parametric EQ does, since you can change the type of filter, the frequency, and the damping ratio of two independent filters, while mixing in as much of your original unfiltered sound as you need. I hope you get to try one someday. Lots of people want more simple electronics, so we offer Epic and Essence styles. There are those customers that want more control onboard their instruments than any standard model we make. In these cases, we build what they need, provided they can express their requirements and teach us what they are after. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 300 Registered: 3-2006 |
The Black_sheep (LG) is back... (the movie was great btw) NLP, I never had a Bass rig with real amps/preamps, cabs or what- else, and I never played live either. While I cannot comment about it, one thing I know for sure, is that proper rigs have mid control(s). As for sizes and cost, we can keep talking about this for ever... Obviously, if it won't fit, you have to have it enlarged or forget about it... The_8_Strings_King had it done once, that just mean that it's already been done, and this circuit does exist, period (Ok, maybe it got lost)... Here I am talking about something that has already been done by Alembic, hence the topic of this thread. What hasn't been done hasn't been done, that's why I proposed things like raising money to ask Ron if he would do it. ------------- Bob, I already mentioned SF-2 and I do know that there are many "cheap" devices out there with mid control, but I wouldn't want to run my circuit through "cheap" stuff, it would defeat the object, which is to keep the signal as clean, clear and "Alembic" as possible. Once it get recorded, I can use superior algorithms to process it further. It's just that I would like to get close to that final sound, while I am tracking/playing/recording, for the vibe. But I think that you should have address this comment to The_8_Strings_King really, He is having his Second custom... ------------- Georgie, I am glad that you enjoy the thread, I hope that it'll go in the intended direction; peaceful, constructive and positive. ------------- Olie, I see you have experience the post process "syndrome", sometimes it good, sometimes it's bad, sometimes it's dome for creative purpose, sometimes for correction or to make it sit or cut through... The problem with acoustics is an other one of course, especially when mic'ing up stuff, but when D.I, the good option is to use headphones, I can recommend the Sony MDR-7506 (closed, foldable and compact) and the Seinnheiser HD600 (opened), that helps a lot if the acoustic is bad/poor. ------------- NLP, not everyone understand engineering, mixing or production, of course, if you are able to make your own complete montage, and make them sound great, then you can surely tell the engineer what you want. Very often, musicians are NOT allowed in the Control room at the Mix Down stage, which is self explanatory. But I don't need help with that, and I not wish to discuss production techniques. Regarding your very last question, I am not sure what you meant. ------------- Mica, I am glad that you remember saying this to me, but doesn't matter really, I am not going to argue with you, because you are the Boss and don't have money, authority or power either. But I will discuss it with members, if they want me to. So, if you are not interested in Low-Mid/Mid range, I surely won't discuss it with you again - that's clear. I am glad that you are working with Musicman, in fact, I like the sound of Bernard Edwards/Chic very much, and further, I enclose a link, please listen to the whole think, that's a Musicman Sabre, it's quite "very" interesting in fact, that you are working on something like that, please describe the sound of the bass in the link, wether you like it or not, and how would you personally go about "shaping" and Alembic to make it sound close? I can, but post process... Now, sorry to go on about this, but it is a quite amazing to hear that you are working on a circuit for Musicman, you see, I knew that you could do it, I mean, not a big deal for you, you gonna do it right, no doubt... unfortunately for me, my wallet is not big enough to ask you such things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOSnea3wNKs Please listen to all of it, it's only 4 minutes! The bass FUNK.... (My favorite track is around 1 minutes 50 seconds). As for the SF-2, I never said anything about it, sure enough, it's a multimode Filter, but I cannot afford it! Does it mean that I am not allowed to talks Mid/Low-mid frequencies anymore? Or does it mean that the mid controls on The_8_Strings_King's bass would cost more than an SF-2? I personally don't think so, we are not talking about the whole circuit though... just a module(s) Further on the SF-2, I NEVER said what you said: "As I recall, you are recording from your bass to your computer, and that using a SF-2 would mean changing your whole recording process, which you were not prepared to do. Perhaps some other folks that are using the SF-2 in a similar environment can give you some advice about adding this to your signal path so that you can start enjoying the added control over your sound." and I don't need advice about how to use one or what it does either. I have near 300 post, and my Memory is Rock Solid to this day - I touch wood! - All I ever said, was that I could "emulate" an SF-2 post recording, with Filters/EQ DSP plugins, nothing less or else. I cannot afford an SF-2, but if you sent me one for Christmas, I would surely know what to do with it! (God knows, sometimes, we have to get lucky...) ------------- (Message edited by lg71 on December 03, 2006) | ||
| inthelows
Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2006 |
I wonder if you could get this in there!! ;-) And I'm not trying to stir your pot, only stimulate conversation. I do have to say I agree with Mica about the mids ability to muddy up the sound if your not careful. I just think most builders think that there are many devices out already doing that job. I do know that if you are an audiophile even to a small degree from a manufacturer's point the R & D cost to get a decent mid/ mid/lo control into a small cavity has got to cost a small fortune. NLP http://cgi.ebay.com/PRESONUS-EQ3B-THREE-BAND-PARAMETRIC-EQ-NEW-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ150064198123QQihZ005QQcategoryZ23790QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 301 Registered: 3-2006 |
NLP, I saw this one before thanks You know, I have been looking around already, and I can tell you that this is the cheapest analog three bands Fully Parametric EQ on earth! Not that I am saying bad things about Presonus, but £59 for a three bands fully parametric EQ sounds a bit cheap... OK, I never heard it, but the proverb "you get what you pay for, must be quite valid" especially for something like that. As I said, good DSP, can rival mid range priced hardware EQs, but in the High end Analog domain, it's an other story - I personally much prefer good Analog processors over Digital. But Ok, as we are talking and you are interested, I'll reveal something (I probably said this before); I have a Bass Pod XT, that's all I have and I am not ashamed of saying it, and it's got dual "phase aligned" outputs, one dry and one wet, so, obviously, as you can imagine, I practice, play record through it, using amp simulation and EQs (for the vibe), and record both channels, the dry and the wet... then, I can process the dry one to my liking with DSPs... So, what's all the "fuss" about you might ask? The answer is simple, I like the sound quality of the Alembic circuit very much, and I would like to shape the sound further, using the same circuit, using Ron's mid range control/ Filter, so I get the sound I want before it gets to tape (recorded). As I cannot afford an SF-2, I assumed that a couple of switches like the one on The_8_Strings_King for instance, might well do the trick and "fit the bill" As for Mica's thoughts on Mid-range controls, as well as yours, I am not going to discuss anything here, it's her company, her products, and she decides what's good for her business. If they decided that Low pass Filters and Q-switches were more important than a fully Parametric Filter, there is nothing I can change about it... Shaping the low-mid/mid on the bass guitar is an art in itself, same goes for the bottom and top end... you can cut, boost, hit frequencies, narrow or wide... These are the tools of the "engineer", no everyone have the skills to understand what they do, or most importantly, how to do it... Anyway, there is no need to argue over low-mid/mid range control/ shaping, each it's own opinion, experience and expertise. I was well prepared to A/B something to try to convince Mica or Ron, but it won't happen, because I am not even given the chance anyway. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 302 Registered: 3-2006 |
In case you like that song, here is old original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BaKUI87TWc This is the time were lyrics were Proper and Love was flowing nicely, you could feel it... | ||
| inthelows
Intermediate Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2006 |
Love the jump suits ! :^) | ||
| bassjigga
Member Username: bassjigga Post Number: 62 Registered: 8-2005 |
I couldn't agree more with Mica regarding midrange controls. Bass players seem to be obsessed with them these days. In my opinion all they do is muddy things up. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 943 Registered: 2-2006 |
I guess I'm not in the minority then. I've never use a lot of mid range in my bass sound. Muddy is one way of putting it, but the mids create more of a hollow muddy sound. I love that fat bottom a with a crisp clean high end. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 303 Registered: 3-2006 |
Mica, you said: "When you ask me my opinion about something, like do I like mid-range in bass tones, I will tell you my opinion. As far as I am concerned, we're not really interested in these frequencies in a band setting. This is not an argument. It's an expression of an opinion based on years of observation both in live and recording studio settings. To my ears, much of the midrange interferes with distinct bass sounds, and muffles subtle techniques of even skilled players..." I haven't been making Bass guitars since I was 10 and I am not a Luthier either, but I have been making Music for that long, recording my own Basses, Guitars and vocal parts, as well as Keys, Horns and strings and special FX... What you say just above doesn't make sense to me and and most creditable Mixing Engineers. Members are coming back, and this thread is taking the wrong direction. Let's get started: What frequency(ies) are you talking about? Are you boosting, cutting or both, and by how much? What's the Q Value(s), narrow, "medium", wide...? So you are claiming that ANY of those "unspecified" settings are going to result in what you described above, right? Next, your Excellent Low Pass Filter with the Q-switch is hitting Low- mid/Mid frequencies specifically right? Yes it does. Next, looking at the plot for the Bass/Treble module, if you cut both, Bass and Treble, you end up with more Mid right? Yes you would. Next, if you Boost the Bass and Treble, we end up with a "Low-Mid/Mid" cut right? Yes we would. Now, if you told me that you were really busy and had little time to consider "requests", I would understand and I would much prefer to hear that, but on the other hand, if you are claiming that in your experience with are talking "mud"... then, I am not happy. Let's not forget that the thread is about "existing" Low-Mid/Mid range CONTROL(S) and NOT specific settings, those who don't understand what I have been talking about, will surely not understand how to go about mixing their own little demo... Further, the Bass guitar and the Bass Drum/Kick require special attention, after all, it's the bottom end, the foundation... Again, what Kit is it, what's the size of the Bass drum, is it opened, mic'ed on it's own, etc... Then you realize that things start to get a bit more complicated than it sounded at first, not to forget other instruments/sounds that might work with or against the Bass Drum and the Bass Guitar... So how do we tackle this? Mic Placement and room acoustic is one, EQ is another one... Oh, but if you D.I the bass... you don't have to worry about room/mic placement - do you, that's right, so what do we do next, we EQ... OK, to avoid further comment, EQ can use creatively or for correction (as it was intended originally). As far as I am aware, the Low-Pass Filter and Q-switch are creative tools to me, not for correction (ok, for the nerd, you can correct a little if you want with it - but we don't usually correct with such tools). Well, let's see what comes next... LG aka "the Black Sheep" is already expecting some non-constructive feedback... Many regards, Me & Myself PS: How many of you here, are claiming that they have composed, recorded and mixed their own complete pieces of Music, made it sound good, yet, never EQ the Low-Mid/Mid on the bass (oh, I forgot, for those who don't know, EQing is not just boosting, it can mean cutting as well...)? Edited the section for misspelling, I meant the Bass/Treble module. (Message edited by LG71 on December 04, 2006) | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 304 Registered: 3-2006 |
NLP, you ask to clarify about the Harness, there is nothing special or complicated really, it's just "standard" parts I was referring to. A Harness is a complete kit, for instance; 1 Low-Pass Filter, 2 Volumes and a Jack socket, would be the Harness for a Persuader Bass... I think that an Excel Harness would have as standard, 2 volumes (or 1 Volume + 1 Pan), and a Bass + Treble boost/cut... Regarding my original question, I just meant, for those who have some Low-Mid/Mid control(s) on their Alembic Basses, what does it do exactly, by "where", I meant what frequencies, by "how much", I meant boost or cut in db, etc... | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 305 Registered: 3-2006 |
LG aka "the Black Sheep" goes one step further... What do the following Basses have in common sonically? - Fender Precision - Fender Jazz Bass - Musicman Stingray/Sabre - Rickenbacker, Gibson, Aria SBs... Answer: they all have their unique + distinctive character/sound... ah ah... - What is it that they don't have? Answer: A flat frequency response...! that means a lot, and doesn't mean good news either... hum! interesting... -------------------------------------------------- Now, what makes an Alembic unique and distinctive sonically (forget the wood for a sec - will you), as far as the higher end models are concerned? Answer: the Low Pass Filter, the Q-switch and PUs -The Electronics. - What does the Alembic has that the other Basses don't have sonically? A flat frequency response... (which is a bonus - if the potential is understood!) So, the "secret weapon" of the Alembic sound is the Low Pass Filter and the Q-switch/CVQ, OK, so if we remove the Filter + Q-switch, we end with clean high end quality "flat" response. I don't mean anything bad, and the advantage becomes obvious once you tweak the Filter/Q-switch... Anyone who as an Alembic, is probably using the Filter/Q-switch most of the time right? I like it. So, when you have a flatter response, it is in theory easier to get closer to a specific sound, as oppose to if you started with a very very distinctive sound. Knowing that, you, I, both can get close to the sound of one of the instruments mentioned above (of course, you have to know how to use the tools, and the main tools are Parametric Filters (it doesn't matter what type exactly for now - we just talk), the Low Pass is good/used a lot, the High Pass is used 100% of the time in Music production (Kick/Bass), then come Notches, Peaking, Band Pass, Comb and so on...). To my experience and knowledge, a Fully Parametric one would be H.O.T (yeah, let's forget about the misunderstood "Low-Mid/Mid Malarkey" for a sec...) and for the sake of it, let's "p*ss" everyone off and make it 20Hz to 20KHz! Happy with that? I am... --------------------------------------------------- By analyzing this, we can conclude that a Bass guitar that can reproduce a flatter frequency response sonically, does clearly have an obvious advantage, for shaping/creating a/new sound(s)... Let me put it this way, if you were to shape or carve into something flat/neutral to start with, you'd have more "headroom" than if you started to shape something that isn't - right? So, for me, this is part of the reason I choose the Alembic sound. "Unfortunately", because I am aware of these variables, it simply made me want to have more control, on the instrument itself. I do not want to have (cannot either) to end up with a collection of various Basses. One would do me fine... --------------------------------------------------- Now, things I haven't mentioned, let's not call "mud" things that we know "nothing" about, I'll tell you what; Let's talk about playing style, sound and tuning, then strings, fretless/fretted... - Slap/Pop/Thumping... - Fingering Rock Style... - Fingering Funk Style... Are you telling me that all require the same sound/EQuing? C'mon, be true to your self! Some guys Rock... No? Some guys Funk... No? Some guys Slap... No? Yet, it's a different SOUND. You know guys/girls, whoever you are, you have to accept (learn it would be even wiser) that various sound, music, style require different approach and attention, If you stay "narrow minded", you will miss a lot the beauty and valuable knowledge that are out there in this world. There is NO such a thing, as "one fit all" size kind of thing. ----------------------------------------------------- Thank you - I know you enjoyed reading! | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4581 Registered: 5-2002 |
I haven't really been paying close attention to this thread, but thought I would make a few observations. It's a small shop. With a huge backlog of work. It is not unusual for one instrument to take over a year to be completed. Bench time for projects is scarce. The wait time to get to Ron's bench can be months. There are a lot of people waiting patiently for Mica to take pictures and post them to their FTC threads. There are a lot of people waiting patiently for Mica to look up and post serial number requests. There are a lot of people waiting patiently for Mica to design and post the layout for COM. There are a lot of suppliers, there are a lot of dealers, there are a lot of customers. There are a ton of phone calls, emails and posts. There are people standing in Mica's office waiting for her to get off the phone. Etc. Etc. Etc. There are some people who are waiting patiently for Mica to go home and fix dinner. As far as recording goes. My guess is that more albums have been sold that were recorded by Ron and Alembic than by any other members of this forum; I could be wrong but it seems a reasonable guess. I would further guess that Alembic's Ron Wickersham has probably played a more important role in the innovation of and history of recording than most other members of the forum. I would still further guess that Ron has designed more innovative pieces of sound equipment than most other members of this forum. I doubt anyone here has designed anything close to an ELF. And then there was of course the Wall Of Sound. I guess the point of all of this is to say that, while lots of members of this forum have posted lots of very interesting ideas to these many threads .. It's a small shop. As much as she might like to, Mica simply doesn't have the time to respond to all the phone calls, emails and posts that are directed to her. A lot of the members of this forum volunteer their time to help other members with questions. One of the reasons that they do this is that they know from experience that Mica has a very limited amount of time to devote to the forum. So they help out. So yes, the people at Alembic probably have a lot more experience with sound, with understanding sound, with designing sound, with recording sound, with building sound, than most of the rest of us do or ever will. And yes, they are very, very busy. And that's ok. Each of us can only be doing what we are doing right now. The sum total of all our life experiences has culminated in the action that we are doing right now. And how we move forward from here is up to each of us. Hopefully, our actions will be guided by awareness of and compassion for the lives of everyone we encounter. Hmmm ... looks like I'm hijacking my own post. Better stop here. <g> Oh, and for those of you who haven't read it yet, this might be a good time to point to .. The Long Story It makes for some very entertaining reading! | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 431 Registered: 12-2004 |
Mid controls are a waste of time, unless they're cut only. That might sound crazy, but I remember reading that Roger Sadowsky's basses are well known for sounding "okay" when soloed, but in a band situation, they just cut right through the mix. This is because he pre-EQs his basses at 400Hz or so (whatever the secret sauce is). And I don't mean boosting.
from: http://www.sadowsky.com/media/support/library/pdf_reviews/bp0402_preamp_rev.pdf Looking at the F2B (which was Alembic's first product!) it does have a midrange control. You guessed it: cut only. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 306 Registered: 3-2006 |
My observations then; When there is loads of work, it means that the business is Good, which = Job vacancies/opportunities or continuous/endless pressure/ back-log... As for Ron, I don't know why you brought up all this really? You obviously make it look like I am tring to compete with him, but if you carefully read the whole thread, and have some basic knowledge of "sound engineering", you'd appreciate that all I said made sense. At least, as far the recording/mixing process is concerned - let alone my "infamous" topic on the "low-mid/mid control(s). Now, as far as Ron contribution as you pointed out, I am happy with that - no problem - no doubt... - Why stop there? We may as well stop using the internet, if we start thinking that we don't need to move on anymore, don't you think? - Why don't we al start playing Double Bass, and ditch the electric bass then... that was evolution... The technology is moving fast, kids start learning about acoustic, engineering, productions techniques and so on... The internet makes it happen real fast, these days "kids" know how to use a Parametric Filter, 20 years ago they didn't... I am helping members too whenever I can. As far as I am concerned, I have creative and constructive ideas, I like to move on, as fast as possibly can... ME, I am NOT the "Sucker" type, if I am happy with Mica I tell her, if I am not I tell her too. That means communicating, being alive, having feelings. You know, the opposite of Love, is NOT "hate", it's ignorance! I proposed a custom Alembic Media Player - only four members considered it! Do you call this contribution, collaboration? That's the type of person I am, constructive, and bring ideas that make sense or are useful, and I am not a "follower". If I get hated - I don't care - I feel good about myself. If this life is cruel - I don't care - next life will be better... Some like to share pictures/photos, some like to share Music, to me it's music, the instruments look nice, but they were designed to played! (Message edited by lg71 on December 04, 2006) | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 307 Registered: 3-2006 |
So, according to Mr Sadowsky, adding a Fully Parametric Filter would be good thing then - Right? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1815 Registered: 7-2004 |
Good try, Dave. Bill, tgo | ||
| inthelows
Intermediate Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 113 Registered: 11-2006 |
I was going to let the rest of this thread pass on until your 2nd last post LG. Firstly many people have very opinionated views when it concerns their likes and dislikes or what they believe. Secondly to me Mr. W = Alembic. Period. What he and staff have to do to run the business is is beyond what you or I know. But judging from other comments by person who may have a clue..their very busy.. Thirdly..the parametric stuff is there, its just too big to fit right now..and then we go back to my second comment.. Forth and finally.. the picture added has this big brown thing at the back. Know what it is? That's right. Things evolve and so do people and their needs. But if we still choose to use them doesn't make us Neanderthal's. Ignorance has a definition. The opposite of love isn't it. NLP  | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 949 Registered: 2-2006 |
That double neck Ovation is cool Normand. Oh yea, me play upright too. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 308 Registered: 3-2006 |
NLP - Why don't you go and by a Horse or Camel to go to work? Think bout it for minute... Were you trying to show-off your personal collection really? If not, you are miles away and off target my man. Please don't disappoint me, and don't use words on my behalf that I didn't use - I don't allow you that. I never suggested anyone to get rid of their Double Bass. If we stop moving on - we can only look back! No? Oh YES. Well, this is turning in THE MUPPET SHOW now, my answer to all of you is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjgA98QZKsw Next time, I won't bother wasting my valuable time helping newbies to get them started with sound card and computers. After all, if you've learnt something from me, I am NOT learning anything from! I am offended. Keep sucking on... you might get a Custom for Christmas. As far as I am aware, I am the ONLY member who proposed something constructive and tried hard to make it happen. What has anyone else done? 1) The media player 2) Sound card/computer setup, so you can record and participate. 3) setup a "raising fund" so we can finance Ron research to come up with something NEW/DIFFERENT and make it available as an option (well you see they are already doing something similar for Musicman!). After all, the Wood options/pattern are fantastic, everyone can have a bass that look different to "the guy next door", great, you bass can look so unique, great... well, to me given the choice, I'd rather have a bass that doesn't sound like any one else out there, so please, stop making me laugh when you ay that with a Low-Pass Filter and Q-switch you get a tremendous huge sound palette, AD a FULLY PARAMETRIC FILTER then we can talk... Anyone, Ron, if you are out there and reading all this, have nothing bad say against you, and I now who you are and what you have done. I am just hoping that you will make this available before you retire, and I mean it. I wouldn't want anyone to "take over" your work, because it wouldn't sound like you anymore. Things like these have happened before. To the rest the you, please give me break and get lost, if you don't agree with me, it's because you simply just DON'T have clue about what have been discussing - IT'S CLEAR LIKE CLEAR WATER! | ||
| echo008
Advanced Member Username: echo008 Post Number: 333 Registered: 2-2003 |
what you like is to hear yourself talk ... regardless of what other people think it seems. Look at this thread, its like you are really pissed off that Alembic wont take your "Sage" advice as to what you think they should do. You want me to get lost!... Dude Im already home..... - Tom | ||
| j_gary
Advanced Member Username: j_gary Post Number: 211 Registered: 6-2005 |
Yep, I remember when I first discovered beer. No, this is more like a sixties party, you had to watch the red acid. A very nice try Dave. | ||
| groovelines
Senior Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 419 Registered: 4-2003 |
lg71, You’ve obviously given your ideas a considerable amount of thought and posses a depth of technical knowledge most of us don’t. And in as few words as possible, I don’t think it’s your ideas that will put people off as much as the tone in which your ideas and your responses are presented. We're all guilty of that from time to time. Just something to consider. [edit for content - mike] (Message edited by groovelines on December 05, 2006) | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 618 Registered: 2-2005 |
If time is of the essence you should be able to sit down and design your own filter to meet your specs. After that it's just a matter of purchasing a few parts and assembling them. A little more civility would hurt either. Keith | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 258 Registered: 4-2005 |
To quote the showroom page: "There is no other preamp, graphic EQ, parametric EQ, or filter unit anywhere from anyone that can shape tone like the Alembic SF-2." One was just put on the For Sale page at $475. Go for it. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 310 Registered: 3-2006 |
echo008 - Wrong! READ the first post on this thread as well as the TOPIC... The only one who was is ON TOPIC was The_8_Strings_King. Period. I amazed at how many of you are joining, still - you are OFF TOPIC... I am glad you're home safe - keep warm please. j_Gary - Have you tried Opium? OFF TOPIC... (I heard it can enhance playing...) groovilines - What makes me angry is the Stupidity and NON sense I read. I don't mean to laugh at people that don't know what I am talking about if it sound technical, BUT - I am asking them to NOT talk about things they have NO CLUES about... Simply. Read again please. keiith_h NON constructive + OFF TOPIC - Read again please. If I knew how to do it this thread wouldn't have existed. Then, it's the Alembic sound I wanted upgraded - I wouldn't alter Ron's circuit by myself, I DO NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE - DO YOU? Lidon2001 - Thanks, that is 100% ON TOPIC For those who stay off topic, please, get a Soundcard for Christmas and a couple of books on Music production/Mixing techniques, if you are really broke, you can find valuable info on the internet (beware the wrong/right settings thread...!!!) Then, once you have done so, Come back to me and talk further... YET - We'll STILL BE "ON TOPIC" in the end. My Christmas present to you is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUz0GxTZ1bQ | ||
| j_gary
Advanced Member Username: j_gary Post Number: 212 Registered: 6-2005 |
Hey, I wondered what happened to the soup nazi! Oops, sorry, OFF TOPIC!!!!!! Did like the Benson though, smooth stuff. | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 311 Registered: 3-2006 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soup_Nazi | ||
| groovelines
Senior Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 420 Registered: 4-2003 |
I've read this thread from top to bottom, lg. My comment was to point out that insulting people and insinuating that others are "stupid" isn't the way to go. Insinuating that you'll only bend Alembic's ear if you have a fat wallet is probably the most offensive remark I've read in this entire forum. You must afford some respect if you expect the same in kind. I like your ideas, but don't get upset if myself and others don't understand completely and then speak out of turn or ignorance. Consider it an opportunity to teach and correct. I've always learned more from someone that took the time to make sure I understood what they were saying than I ever did from a whipping. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 233 Registered: 9-2005 |
LG, why on Earth are you being so negative to our fellow club members? I was taken back by your comments, and I went back to re-read the entire thread to see what could've prompted such negativity... and I don't see anything. I see that some people have arguably strayed off-topic a bit... that happens sometimes, usually not a biggie, and I understand you're frustated that there doesn't seem to be much support for the mid control. That bummed me a little too. But one thing I've found interesting/enlightening about this thread is the fact that Alembic clearly does have specific, thought-out reasons for their position on this issue. They've clearly considered it, and their policy, however much you and I and anyone else may disagree, is based on their best judgement. I may (and often do) disagree with other's best judgement... but I wouldn't expect nor ask another to act against their best judgment (although when appropriate, I have attempted, and sometimes -rarely- succeeded in persuading another to re-evaluate his/her decision-making process... I don't recall any instance of it succeeding by employing condescension or name-calling, however). You're out of line, bub. I fully support the desire for mid-control; I like the controls on my bass. For the record, this thread prompted me to play around with them, and I have confirmed that I pretty much DON'T like to use the NECK pickup for boosting -it DOES actually muddy up the sound. Now of course, that's just one bass, and I'm clueless about which specific frequency it is. The BRIDGE pickup DOES sound great with the boost -but again, I don't know what frequency it is. But that's a separate issue. The other members here have just stated their opinions in a civilized way. Some of the comments have strayed off-topic; some have perhaps not been helpful; but none of them have justified the obvious and extreme condescension, insults, and negativity you've expressed to our fellow club members. And I for one, think that pretty much all of Dave's comments are valid/salient. Like you, I wish they offered mid-controls, and am bummed they don't. I would've like to have them on my new custom -but I've got no doubt I'll be VERY happy without 'em. I've enjoyed this thread (until your recent borderline vicious posts) because it enlightened me about the whys/technical aspects of their policy and their reasoning. But that's all separate now. I submit you should take a deep breath, and take a couple steps backward, and try and calmly, objectively look at what you've said to our fellow members, and maybe even consider an apology -or several. However much you make dislike or agree with the opinions posted on this thread, no one has said anything to justify the lashing you've dealt out. Do the right thing... please. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1816 Registered: 7-2004 |
Lg: As a guitar player, I'm often on the sidelines watching these discussions about bass tone. I'm certainly among the least knowledgeable around here when it comes to this subject. Still, I've spent quite a bit of time lurking around here and adding my $.02 whenever the urge hits. I'm certainly no stranger on this board. One of the main characteristics of this board that keeps me coming back is the unusually high level of civilty and outright comraderie that I find here. Certainly there are different opinions expressed, but, with the extremely rare exception, the differences are always expressed in a respectful, controlled, and even humorous manner. The type of flaming that is so common to other boards just isn't found here. In the context of this board, your posts, IMHO, come off as a little defensive and with some unnecessary attitude. I don't have any of my music on the net and really had no reason to want to join your media player group. Nevertheless I had no problem with your attempt. I suspect many of the members had a similar reaction. However, I don't appreciate negative energy projected in my direction because I didn't rush to sign up. As for chipping in to encourage Ron to push the envelope, I believe we are all already doing so eveytime we do business with Alembic. By selling instruments, pre-amps, blasters, SF-2s, etc., Alembic helps to ensure its continued existence which in turn allows for further research and innovation. As for the direction that research and innovation should take, personally I'd prefer to leave that to Ron than to the whims of the club members. He's done a pretty damn good job so far. Finally, for helping to shape my live guitar sound, my SF-2 kicks ass on any parametric eq I've ever tried. Bill, the guitar one | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 312 Registered: 3-2006 |
Anymore? | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 313 Registered: 3-2006 |
Oh! Sorry guys/girls - I just realized... What am I doing here really? I don't belong here - you are right! I grew up in the street... I have learnt that people from the "upper class" or the "snobs" as we called them, swear by keeping polite, I mean they can "swear" - yet they don't use strong words... you know I am saying? Some can be rude by using nice words. Get a grip with yourself Check this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF7b1hdFiDM&mode=related&search= | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 234 Registered: 9-2005 |
QUOTE "Georgie, I am glad that you enjoy the thread, I hope that it'll go in the intended direction; peaceful, constructive and positive." Wow. So this is the way you pursue a "peaceful, constructive, and positive" direction, huh? If so, it makes me wonder what you'd consider a disruptive, destructive and negative direction... | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1281 Registered: 4-2004 |
i dont have to keep sucking on LG.. I AM GETTING MY CUSTOM FOR CHRISTMAS!!!!! boy this thread is hysterical can you feel the love? yes val talked me out of the mid controls too and i accepted his opinion as i do mica and Susan so they designed my alternate controls, in 2 phone calls and production took 2 weeks. And to be as naive to think that pissing off the people building your instrument is a good idea- you WILL draw more bees with honey than vinegar last person i read about who thought he knew it all was??? george w bush i;m amazed at how infantile some people are,., so i am taking my ball and i am going home na na nana na.... | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 314 Registered: 3-2006 |
Flaxattack, congrats man - Enjoy! I Like you Don't forget them please - Will you? http://www.unicef.org/ (OK, you don't have to sell the Custom, but $20 here and there once in a while, you know...) | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 315 Registered: 3-2006 |
the_8_string_king, I would like you to point out the: Peaceful, Constructive and Positive comments that the members have offered so far? Thanks. BTW: yours was the best one... Hey guys, have you got Skype? It's free and very cool, why don't we try it? | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1282 Registered: 4-2004 |
hey isnt the the joker who did his internet study on us? or am i incorrect | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 899 Registered: 10-2003 |
+1 on that, Jeff. Oh, and it's "the Internets," "the Google" and "the Email" nowadays... ;) Midrange? I can add that at my amp, but I usually don't need to.. John | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 3829 Registered: 6-2000 |
Hi Louis-Gino, In my post from Sunday, I made sure you knew about a midrange product that's under development, and should be ready next year. By the way, I should make it clear that I am not working "with MusicMan," this is a separate development from their company, and the first product to feature this control will be a direct retrofit pickup/electronics system, as it has been requested by customers of ours. I understand that you are excited about having some new aspects to you new sounds, but as you are aware, the product does not exist yet from us that you can mount in your bass right now that does what you want. One option is to add a SF-2 to your signal chain, which we have discussed before this thread. The other is to wait for the new product. Of course, you may always find your own path and develop what you need on your own. I'm familiar that your needs are urgent, and I've tried hard to give you options that can help you now. I feel that I must address this "argument" you refer to between you and I. I do not have an argument with you, we each have our own opinion. Because we have different tastes in what we like, doesn't mean we can't work together to make the sound you want. I only need to understand what you want, which you are starting to document on this thread, which is a great start. Also, it's important to understand that custom work for my dad's bench is booked months in advance, so I won't be able to consult with you on the specific design details for your project until it's close to the time to start working on it. Until then, carefully document what it is you are trying to acheive with your custom changes, so that you can teach us what you want your finished sound to be. I do sincerely hope you get an opportunity to try out a Superfilter, we think it's even more powerful than the parametric EQ that we built for Bobby Weir back in 1971. Many people find that using a Superfilter helps them make more precise decisions about what to mount onboard their instrument. If you have some idea that Ron is going to retire soon, let me please put your mind at ease. He plans to be at work for a good many more years. | ||
| j_gary
Advanced Member Username: j_gary Post Number: 213 Registered: 6-2005 |
Mork? Is that you? | ||
| inthelows
Intermediate Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2006 |
Looks like you're trying to get that superfilter. Nice price too. That might be a good start point for what you want. When and if you get a package that will fit, you can compare them and let us know whether it's worth the cost and the wait to have it available on-board. That superfilter might be enough to do it. Good Luck. j_gary -- isn't he in a movie running for president now? Na nu Na nu. NLP | ||
| j_gary
Advanced Member Username: j_gary Post Number: 214 Registered: 6-2005 |
That's the guy! Didn't know he was a bass player! | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 619 Registered: 2-2005 |
LG, Actually yes I am qualified although a little rusty. I'm not as qualified as Mr. Wickersham by any means. In my younger years I held the title of Electrical Engineer. The company I worked for specialized in industrial audio applications using something called an op-amp. From your ranting that we are all so stupid I naturally assumed you were eminently qualified also. Growing up on the street is no reason to not be civil in your interactions with others. I didn't exactly have it easy when I was younger. I was out of the house at 17 and finished high school on my own. However I never used it as an excuse to belittle people I didn't agree with. Now to make this fit the thread. No I actually don't see the need for mid-range control with my basses. I run my amp essentially flat for my fretless. This was designed to emphasize the mid-range by body wood and construction techniques. For my fretted basses I scoop the mid-range for the so called slappers sound (or smiley face). Keith | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 988 Registered: 12-2002 |
(Message edited by keavin on December 06, 2006) | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 989 Registered: 12-2002 |
Also too theres ALWAYS the option of Having One's instrument custom fitted (by a qualified-Tech) to modify it to one's own liking or specs. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 957 Registered: 2-2006 |
I got my Series II out last night and played around with the controls and I find that you can get a lot of mid control out of it's on board electronics. As for the direction that this thread as gone, I respect and greatly appreciate all members’ opinions and knowledge. I realize that I am not the most technological genius here. I do know what my ears like and dislike and have been able to get that sound from any of my axes. Granted I do have to tweak them all differently. I do however understand that as we progress so do our abilities and talents. Therefore we do need people like Ron, LG and Mica that have the knowledge and resources to help us keep up with our ever growing talents and senses. But we will get more done working together than against one another in a civilized respectful manner. I do pray (literally) that we all can sit back, take a deep breath and realize that everyone here is a vital part of our community of musicians. We can learn from each other and we must always (as corny as it sounds) LOVE one another. I understand that not all here believe in an after life but for those that do, remember; the only thing we get to take with us when we leave this Earth is relationships. Na-nu-Na-nu/ Mork. That show inspired my oldest daughter’s name, Mindy. True story. | ||
| georgie_boy
Intermediate Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2005 |
YOU'RE A GOOD GUY!! g | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4584 Registered: 5-2002 |
Olie said "we will get more done working together than against one another in a civilized respectful manner" and "we can learn from each other and we must always .. LOVE one another". I entirely agree and wish our political leaders around the world would consider that as well. If we can set an example, over time maybe they will start to notice. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 238 Registered: 9-2005 |
What political leaders? I mean this most sincerely, honestly, and literally. Where in the world are there actual political leaders? (I'd really like to know if there is such a place, honestly. I'd like to google it, and possibly go and live there.) I don't see political leaders anywhere I look -certainly not in this country... only... well, thugs, basically who use the status quo to benefit themselves ($, primarily -but also all the things that go hand in hand with securing and maintaining it) at the expense of their victims, and, most assuredly, leadership. I know this is off-topic, but I had to respond to that. I'm genuinely interested in further information on who these political leaders are, because as far as I can see, it's as obvious as the sun in the sky that we in fact don't have any -only those who necessarily pose/posture as leaders as a necessary prerequisite to (attempt to) justify the many crimes they commit and the resulting consequences. Anyway, for the record, I'm all for working together -and a civilized, respectful manner clearly is better than the alternative. It's just that simple. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4587 Registered: 5-2002 |
Perhaps I should have said something like - those few who are in positions from which their actions or inactions significantly and profoundly affect all of the rest of us and the planet on which we depend. [edited for spelling] (Message edited by davehouck on December 06, 2006) | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 959 Registered: 2-2006 |
Just for kicks I looked up "politics" on Merriam Webster's web site and part of the definition is; "1 the art or science concerned with winning and holding control over a government,(aren't all our leaders doing this now) & political affairs... (Bill had this one down) LOL The views expressed above are quoted from M-W web site and are not necessarily my own. Had to put this legal disclaimer in there. | ||
| slawie
Junior Username: slawie Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2002 |
After all this is over, all that will really have mattered is how we treated each other. Unknown author | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1819 Registered: 7-2004 |
Olie: You talkin' to me? If so, I don't get it? Regardless, I love EVERYONE here. Bill, tgo | ||
| inthelows
Intermediate Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 139 Registered: 11-2006 |
Politics is a fine art. Some leaders mean well but are persuaded to change from their original goals. hard to stop. NLP (Message edited by inthelows on December 06, 2006) | ||
| inthelows
Intermediate Member Username: inthelows Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2006 |
Bill, tgo ..that might be B.Clinton reference. Which to my knowledge was neither parametric nor paranormal. ( He said trying to stay near topic, kinda sorta, ok not really) Sorry LG NLP | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 1821 Registered: 7-2004 |
Well shut my mouth and call me Monica! I believe you are correct, sir! Bill, tgo | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 917 Registered: 10-2002 |
If monica had kept her mouth closed, bill (C) wouldn't have got himself into all that bother in the first place ;-) graeme | ||
| georgie_boy
Intermediate Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2005 |
This thread has blown my brains clean out!!! Am I missing the whole point, or was it something to do with a mid control to begin with??? G | ||
| chuck
Junior Username: chuck Post Number: 38 Registered: 3-2005 |
We should start A new topic page titled Rant & Rave. Chuck | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 319 Registered: 3-2006 |
Goerie_boy my man, some got confused with Mid-Crisis! lol | ||
| lg71
Advanced Member Username: lg71 Post Number: 320 Registered: 3-2006 |
Dear Mica, Thanks for this very kind letter, you touched my heart. Here is 3 songs for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd3dFkMBxYg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4God0lc0244 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1B_rLIUeWI Every-time, I call you, I enjoy talking to you on the phone, we always spend an hour at least, although it's expensive, it doesn't matter, as son as I hear your sweet voice, I forget everything Alembic. Gino |
