| Author | Message | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2007 |
Dear friends, It has just been brought to my attention that there are no bass and treble controls on the Series II that I just ordered. Can any of you give me your feelings on not having these controls and if you would rather have them on the bass? Do the other controls make up in a different way or would you prefer having those controls yourself? Help, please give me some feedback as I honestly dont know. I've never had a bass without them. Should I be requesting them? Thanks, Paul (Message edited by mele_aloha on January 31, 2007) | ||
| edwin
Advanced Member Username: edwin Post Number: 213 Registered: 5-2002 |
Series II have very different tone controls. They are filters, one for each pickup and have been described in great detail all over this board. It would be a good thing to do to do some research, however, they are something you have to really use to understand. Once you start using the Series layout, you may find your other basses lacking! I know this isn't as specific as you want, but this can get you started: http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/18483.html?1116292629 Enjoy! Edwin | ||
| bassjigga
Intermediate Member Username: bassjigga Post Number: 122 Registered: 8-2005 |
Here are the specs on all the instruments. http://www.alembic.com/prod/basses.html Most Alembics utilize low-pass filters rather than your typical shelving (bass/treble boost/cut) type controls. The low pass filter adjusts the frequency. Frequencies below the set freq (say 2 khz for example) are "passed through" while those above are reduced. Hope this makes sense. You should probably talk with the people at Alembic and educate yourself about the electronics before you order. A good amount of the price of a Series II is in the electronics (the most expensive and versitile package Alembic offers). You might save yourself a lot of money if you decide you don't necessarily need or want Series controls. Good luck! | ||
| jseitang
Intermediate Member Username: jseitang Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2002 |
once you've played around with the tone controls of a series II, you'll understand that its A LOT more than just treble abd bass!!! | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 34 Registered: 1-2007 |
I thought that this was correct and then someone wrote in my other post recommending that I get bass and treble controls. I took this as coming from someone who knew what they were talking about since they have been all over this board with a lot of writing and communication. This person also has instruments on order and purchased them previously from Alembic. So sometimes I am blown away by the comments in the forum. Also this person recommended that I eliminate on of the three ebony strips that I have in my neck as it might be just adding another pound to the weight of my bass and probably not be that effective. Does this make since? I thought more ebony was better for the sustain. ????Paul | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1031 Registered: 12-2002 |
There has been series basses made with everything from you name it,I personally would love to have treble/bass controls on my series but ive gotten used to going to my rig for for additional EQ ...BUT with those filters /Q swiches you can get a pretty wide variety of High&Low tone frequencies so it pans itself out.... but i say if you can afford to get a solid Gold/diamond encrusted with a platinum fingerboard alembic with a Rolls Royce Grill & you got the Bucks,,,,Dammit go for it! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1024 Registered: 10-2002 |
Paul. I've checked out your plans and they look to be spot on. I can't wait to see the FTC kick off. graeme | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1246 Registered: 6-2002 |
Paul - don't worry too much. You use the onboard filters to "voice" the sound. You can add bass and treble controls as well, but you probably won't touch them too much, so why not leave that part of the sound shaping to your rig. Also less chance of hitting the wrong control. (Message edited by adriaan on February 01, 2007) | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 748 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hi Paul, Some people want a lot of tone control options, others feel there's plenty of variation and control in the lowpass filters with Q controls (either toggles or CVQ). IMHO Jimmy Johnson is one pro who uses his Series II directly into the house PA without any additional EQ, and sounds beautiful and tasty. Your personal tastes and opinions are the primary selectors for YOUR bass. Make it your dream. Mike | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1088 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi Paul, I thought the same thing when I got my S-2, WOW no tone controls. But have found that the low pass filters and continuous Q controls allow me to shape the tone any way I want. I agree with Adrian, use your rig for the TONE controls, if needed. As for the extra lam of Ebony, I'm no expert but can say that I am having a bass built that has 2 extra lams of Ebony. Looks to me that you did your homework, knew what YOU wanted and ordered it that way. Mike is right "make it your dream". If you want to add tone controls go ffor it. This is going to be a real cool bass. Peace Olie | ||
| jseitang
Intermediate Member Username: jseitang Post Number: 197 Registered: 6-2002 |
mele, please check out my bass. its in the custom of the month archive. you will see that not only do i have 3 ebony strips down my bass, i had it made with purpleheart lamintes in the headstock only, and then, to have one thin venner of ebony on each side of the neck before it touches the body.... | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1027 Registered: 10-2002 |
Can you post a link to that please Jimmy? edit (or even just say which cotm it is) Graeme (Message edited by jacko on February 01, 2007) | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1250 Registered: 6-2002 |
It's the January 2002 COTM, Bass of Doom! | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1028 Registered: 10-2002 |
Oooh. Sweet! How has the vermillion aged Jimmy? there's a couple of FTCs on the go where the vermillion is VERY red - I really like that;-) Graeme | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2066 Registered: 9-2003 |
Paul, Everyone here means well and they all certainly have their own opinions on all things Alembic. If you're confused as to which way to go with anything RE: your custom, call Alembic and speak to them. They'll help you get exactly the right thing for you. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1091 Registered: 2-2006 |
Very good advice Kevin. | ||
| jseitang
Intermediate Member Username: jseitang Post Number: 198 Registered: 6-2002 |
it has aged very well. very red...plus the cherry body makes the contrast even more distinct. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 384 Registered: 9-2005 |
Paul, it wasn't my intention to scare you out of your plan. The plan you have for your custom sounds like a great plan that would produce a wonderful and awesome bass. In my opinion, the Alembic low-pass filter and Q setup is FAR more flexible and versatile than bass & treble controls. IF you had to choose between them, the filter/Q setup is far superior. My point was that you DON'T need to choose; it's not either/or (unless you want it to be)... you can have BOTH. There are several Alembic basses that have BOTH the filter/Q AND e.q. controls. First of all, the Distillate, Europa, and Rogue all have a single low-pass filter with a Q switch AND 3-position boost/flat/cut switches for the bass and treble. Several club members have customs that take it further and have variable knobs augmenting the filter/Q setup. Check out the Custom Archives. "Understated Elegance" is a Series II bass that ALSO has individual bass and treble knobs FOR EACH PICKUP; my custom "8 Strings of Power" also has individual filters, Q switches, AND bass & treble knobs for each pickup. The "East Meets West" bass has bass & treble knobs supplementing the single filter & Q switch; and if you look up "Rory's Custom Bass" in FTC, you see that it has Anniversery electronics (individual filters & Qs) PLUS individual bass & treble controls. Also, you can see "Shim's custom bass" is getting a master set of bass & treble knobs to supplement the individual filters & Q switches. My experience is that I love both options. I want BOTH the filter/Q controls AND bass & treble controls... and want both types on my Alembics. I really enjoy and use the tremendous versatility that my bass offers by having both sets of controls, and I would never consider an Alembic with "either/or". But that's me. My point is, if you can afford a Series II, an extra couple hundred for the bass & treble toggles or knobs is "a drop in the bucket." If this is your dream bass, and you have a concern about it, it wouldn't cost much more to add 1 or 2 sets of toggles or knobs, and they can do it -they've done it before, for me, and several other club members. If you want bass & treble controls, why not get 'em? As far as the ebony goes, again, I didn't mean to scare you. I'm a big proponent of Ebony in the neck. It's indescribably awesome. But it is also expensive and heavy... and the Series electronics are also notoriously heavy. You should be aware of this in making your decision. Mica told me that they currently recommend just 1 or 2 (Ebony) laminates in general, and that just one or two will provide virtually as much of the effect as a full complement (every other laminate). My understanding is that each Ebony laminate adds about a pound to the weight. Maybe this wouldn't matter to you; or maybe it would. Only you can say. There's nothing wrong with your plan. It's a neck recipe that would be very beautiful and functional. My point was just to offer you an idea to consider -which means you might like or not like it. Again, only you can say. If it were me, I'd lose one of the Ebony laminates, and put that money towards a set of bass & treble controls. My understanding is that it's $400 retail extra for ONE set of toggles and $500 extra for ONE set of knobs. So you could switch the center lam to Vermillion and get a set of bass & treble controls for about the same amount as your plan, which would give you a lighter bass, with the significant added flexibility of the bass & treble controls and a more colorful neck with virtually the same amount of Ebony "oomph" as with 3 laminates; my understanding is that 2 would be virtually the same as three. This is what I would do. But you are not me, and, as others have said, you should get YOUR dream, and what's right for you -which is not necessarily what is right for me. Only you can say. And don't take my word for it, discuss these points with the experts, Susan and Mica if you have concerns, and/or want clarification/verification of these points. Don't let me or anyone else scare you out of what you want. Get what is right for you. The purpose of my post was to respond to your ideas, and to give you food for thought. I thought it was worth mentioning that you might consider the bass & treble controls, and that you might consider switching one of your Ebony lams to Vermillion to spice up the color, lighten up the bass, and use the money saved to add the additional flexibility of bass & treble controls for about the same amount of money. If this sounds appealing to YOU, then you might consider or do it; but it's not like there's anything wrong with your plan. More than 99% percent of the Series basses out there DON'T have bass & treble controls... and I've never heard a Series owner complain about the lack of e.q. controls. But there's a simple solution if you want a Series bass that ALSO has these controls... order it! I look forward to seeing your bass in FTC. It's going to be REALLY awesome -with or without bass & treble controls and/or Vermillion in place of a 3rd Ebony laminate! | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1033 Registered: 12-2002 |
  | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1030 Registered: 10-2002 |
That's a heck of alot of knobs to twiddle keavin! Graeme | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2067 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wow! That thing's like a double EMW with CVQ's and SC-1's thrown in! East-Meets-West-Meets-Series II? LOL! And I thought the EMW was a handful to twiddle! Makes my stock Series I look (control-wise) like a J-bass in comparison. Good Luck on your custom, Pete. I'm sure it'll be awesome and exactly what you're looking for, and then some. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| jorge_s
Intermediate Member Username: jorge_s Post Number: 121 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well I guess I will also contribute my nickel's worth of free advice. My main bass prior to Alembic was a Sadowsky w/ bass and treble controls. Upon receiving my SII I really thought I would miss those controls. I even posted on the "Dreaming for Now" section stating that if I could do it all again I would have included bass and treble controls. Well, several years have gone by and I now I have an oportunity to order a SI. I thought about the bass and treble again and realized I have not needed them at all. Once you get used to the Series electronics you find you have all you need. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 387 Registered: 9-2005 |
Keavin, thank's a bunch for posting the pictures! I'm pretty sure I'd seen your's before, but I didn't remember where! (It's awesome, but that goes without saying!) It all comes down to what you like/want/need. IMO, if one HAD TO CHOOSE between a filter and a Q vs bass and trebles... it's no contest. The filter/Q setup is MUCH more versatile. And the SERIES electronics are in a class by itself... you have to play/hear/experience 'em to have a perspective. What the filter/Q setup offers period, and then even more so with the STEREO (let's not forget that) is SO MUCH MORE than mere eq controls that, if one chooses Series electronics OVER bass & treble controls, they'll be too happy with what they've got for it occur to them to be bummed with what they don't have... in most cases. But the fact of the matter is, it's great to have BOTH types of controls. I absolutely LOVE my eq controls. I have individual controls for each pickup. Each of my pickups has SIX tone controls... THREE eq controls (bass & treble KNOBS, and a mid-range toggle), and three filter/Q controls ( a filter, on/off for the Q, and a 4/8/12 db selector for the Q) and ALL of these controls are HIGHLY USEFUL. The bass control knobs are the most useful; I use the bass boost IN ADDITION to the filters/Qs all the time. Then I use the mid-boost for the bridge pickup next most frequently, and then the mid-cut for the neck pickup and various cut/boost options for the treble controls for both pickups next. I use all these options, and I love it. My bass is unsurpassed in tonal flexibility. For me, I want both filter and eq controls. I love both, and insist on both. The ideal is to have individual filters with variable Qs for each pickup, and also individual bass, mid, and treble controls for each pickup. Nothing tops this -other than a built-in superfilter, which they don't do anymore. But not everyone insists on this degree of versatility. Only you can say what you need. If you want eq controls, get 'em... they don't add THAT much to the price... and then they'll always be there when you want them. I LOVE mine!!! | ||
| joram
Member Username: joram Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2004 |
oops (Message edited by joram on February 03, 2007) | ||
| joram
Member Username: joram Post Number: 52 Registered: 5-2004 |
Well, this isn't quite Keavin's. It's Yahya's "Big Bass" | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hi all friends, Thank you all for your great concern and comments. I think I was very sensitive when Mark first commented on my Bass specs as I have put very much time into the design but at the same time now that I have the money and was able to put the order in I am very busy and haven't been able to zero in on the very finest points. So many things have happened in the last few months from spending alot of time in the LA courts to my Mom becoming ill, and now my wife and I have been blessed with the opportunity of our life by getting a store in the Hilo Farmer's Market. So we have been working day and night to get this store opened all while watching my 3 year old son. To get to the point, Mark I am not upset at you at all. At first when you commented about my bass I was very tired and after putting so much time into the design I was offended but I know that you only meant well. In fact you have me thinking very much about adding bass and treble pots. But after all of the great comments above from Olie, Jacko, Keavin, DADA, Adriann, jseitang, bassjigga, and Joram, etc., I have made my decision to leave well enough alone as I can see how the controls that are on the bass will give me (myself) enough variation. I would love to have them but am going to hold off. But thank you very much for your constructive advice. I also was very sure about my three ebony strips as I had already changed twice to finally get to that decision. Nonetheless, all good advice and thanks again everyone. Now I just want to contact admins and see if my rig has a space in the busy scheduling as I am very excited to get it rolling. Aloha to All, Paul da Plumma | ||
| the_8_string_king
Advanced Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 396 Registered: 9-2005 |
Hey Paul, all I want is for you to be as happy as possible and get you dream bass like you want it! More power to you, and I look forward to seeing it! Haven't seen Alembic do a Koa bass in quite some time... I'll be interested in that aspect of it, in particular! | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1486 Registered: 3-2004 |
Just one comment to throw out here... I think the Bass/Treble controls are probably more versatile than the filter setup. There just have to be more settings to be had with two knobs to tweak rather than just one. I suspect that there are two reasons why many of us prefer the filter configuration. One is that it is relatively easy to find a tone color with a single knob. Brighter clockwise, fatter counter-clockwise. It's that simple. The other is that the filter setup is more musical. Every possible setting sounds great. Personally, I wouldn't build an Alembic without the filter config as the core tone control. Best of luck with your new instrument! | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2007 |
OK bsee, Thanks for your comment. I just have a question for you then. Of course I am going to have the filter config as it is a Series II. But what is your opinion, would you also add the bass/treble knobs on top of them like some are saying so that you have more control right on your rig? And would you just have a master bass and a master treble knob controling the exiting signal out of the bass or would you have a bass and treble knob for each pick-up? Realizing that some said its more knobs on the bass, I still wonder if I would like that option like Mark says? I'm still gathering opinions. Thanks, Paul | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4756 Registered: 5-2002 |
If cost and time are not considerations, and you don't mind having lots of controls on top of your bass, and you tend to make lots of tone changes on stage, then add the bass and treble knobs for each pickup; that will give you the most versatility. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 401 Registered: 9-2005 |
Again, Paul, I'm sorry if my error regarding Ebony neck-lam weight or anything else upset you... I sure didn't want to do that, I'm glad you're past it, and I wouldn't want to upset you again. And you should definitely get what YOU want. What's best for YOU. That said, I'll share my OPINION, and briefly share my analysis/rational. I think you should get SOME... at least, as a minimum, a master set of the 3-position type switches used on the Europa, Rogue and Distillate. My reasoning: you've indicated you want them, and have always had them on your basses; the fact is, that while the filter/Q setup Alembics has is awesome, it ISN'T THE SAME as EQ controls. What bass and treble controls do IS different from what the filter & Q do; and what they do IS good AND useful. IF you like it and are used to it, why not get it? Basically, I see reasons why YOU (maybe, you judge) should get them; and I DON'T see any reasons why you shouldn't get them. If there are any, the only obvious concerns are cost and clutter. But they really don't cost that much more -especially when an elaborate Series II is the frame of reference- and they really can be set up in a way that's clutter-free. Obviously the one extreme of 4 extra knobs will add more "control(s) area" than the opposite extreme of a mere pair of 3-position master bass & treble toggles -which could EASILY be squeezed in there. I've got 16 controls on my 8-String Europa: 8 knobs and 8 toggles. I've got individual filters with variable Qs AND bass & treble knobs AND mid-range boost/flat/cut toggles FOR EACH pickup... and the tone control I have is astonishing. The combination of filter/Q AND bass & treble controls IS worth it to me. It gives you the best of both worlds. And my controls are set up in a way that is simple, logical & intuitive, and VERY space-efficient and not cluttered. You can see it in the custom Archives and also here: http://alembic.com/club/messages/397/21729.html?1130250188 Having BOTH as opposed to one or the other allows you a cumulative effect that is more than the sum of it's parts. The filter/Q setup is great for what it is, but it has limitations. One basic example is this: if you want to use the filter/Q setup to boost the bass, the ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO IT is to roll the filter down to that position... WHICH MEANS YOU'VE FILTERED OUT ALL THE FREQUENCIES ABOVE THAT POINT. There's no way around it. That's how the filter and Q work. You can't use it for a bass boost without ALSO having a BIG treble (and mid) cut. But with a bass control, it's never an issue. This is no small thing. (Now typically, one way folks with Series/Signature/Anniversary models will deal with this is do that to one pickup, and have the other one be bright, and mix the sound of the bright pickup with the treblecut/bassboosted sound of the heavily-filtered pickup -but this isn't the same, either.) Also, having a treble control allows you to put treble back in to compensate for treble cut by the filter -when you're using it in any mid or low position. So my point is this. BOTH systems have merit and offer great versatility. I love both systems. For the record, IF I had to chose, I'd go for the basic Spoiler/Elan setup over the Epic setup; I think a filter with a Q switch offers a broader and more significant array of tone alterations that a pair of bass and treble knobs. The Series Electronics -especially the Series II- blow away ANY bass and treble combination. You'll be thrilled and blown away by the Series. But bass and treble controls just aren't part of the package. But you can add them, if you want. There'd be no down side to the minimum of just one pair of toggles; but if you choose to go all the way with knobs, you can see at least two successful examples. For that matter, to open up another can of worms, some club members have got Series basses and minimized the controls. I know I've seen at least one Series II bass that elimiated the pickup selector and traded the two individual volumes for a balance control -presumably because the person preferred the more simple setup. I've also seen at least one Series I that ditched the pickup selector and traded a volume for a balance. Anyway, Paul, get what's right for you. The only reason I'm spending time sharing my thoughts is to help you with your decision, and I don't care what you choose, I just want you to choose what will give you the greatest happiness. You've got several options ranging from not having an bass & treble controls to having one set of toggles or knobs to having two sets of toggles or knobs. 5 different options to consider that are all very different from each other. If it were me, and I could afford it, I'd get all knobs... my guess for you is either that, if you're not sure you'll want 'em, you might want to pass... or, conversely, if you DO get them, you might want the minimum of only one set of either toggles or knobs. If you're used to only one set in the first place, then one set should certainly not be a letdown. On the other hand, I'll tell you from experience that it's pretty useful having the individual controls for both pickups. It's a complex subject! I'll look forward to seeing what you decide! Just remember, whatever you decide will be okay! FYI, my fundage was too limited too get anything beyond a basic electronics package for my current custom in progress -so I choose Europa electronics with an upgraded 3-position Q switch. This is, to me, the basic modern Alembic mono setup; it has the best of both worlds in a very simple but versatile setup with just 3 knobs and 3 toggles: 3 knobs control volume, blend and tone; and 3 toggles made simple but very useful adjustments to the bass, treble, and Q. To me, this should be the basic minimum frame of reference -and all upgrades should consist of upgrades/additions to that package. (Such as individual tone controls for each pickp; or upgrading the toggles to CVQs and/or bass & treble knobs; or upgrading the electronics to Anniversary or Series. Aloha! (Message edited by the 8 string king on February 11, 2007) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1488 Registered: 3-2004 |
Well, I have an instrument with Anniversary electronics and another with Europa electronics, so I have experience with both configs. On the Europa bass, I rarely use the bass toggle at all. Generally, I run the bass configured with the filter and occasionally add the treble boost toggle. If I wanted a bass boost and flat treble, I cut the filter a little. If I want a bass boost and treble cut, I cut the filter a lot. A bass boost and treble boost (mid cut equivalent) is the treble boost switch enabled with the filter cut a bunch. On the Anniversary bass, I get my "treble boost" from the bridge filter near max with the Q switch at +9dB. I set the neck filter to a position where the +9dB Q gets me a mid boost for better fingerstyle punch. Your Series II will have so much more control of this with the CVQs. Other than that, I find that the combinations of pickups and filter settings do everything that needs doing in the electronics. Everything else I need to do for tone I can do with my hands. Alembic basses are super-responsive to playing styles. You can really hear the difference when you alter your picking/plucking style and position. There's a thread somewhere where we were discussing midrange controls. I would find that sort of control more useful than bass/treble. What is your nature? Do you tend to find a setting that you really like and stick with it all night, or are yo umaking continuous adjustments from song to song? If the former, you might be better served to get yourself an SF-2 or some other off-board EQ tool. There's no tone that you can get with bass/treble knobs on the instrument that you can't also get with bass/treble controls in the right preamp. In the end, it's a matter of how much fine control you feel the need for. If you're a tweaker, go for the knobs. If you want to get an approximate tone setting and let your fingers do the work, go for the "basic" Series II electronics. | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1052 Registered: 12-2002 |
Basic SeriesII set up is the Ultimate!  |
