| Author | Message | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2006 |
Are Stanley Clarke singature basses piccolo basses? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 4080 Registered: 6-2000 |
Clarke Signature basses are short scale standard tuning unless otherwise specified. You need to order them strung piccolo or tenor. You can change the strings to piccolo or tenor tuning after the fact, but for best setup, the nut and string saddles should be replaced and reslotted to fit the narrower strings. | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2006 |
Hi Mica, I have a few questions about Piccolos. 1. Since it is one octave above bass, then isn't it the same octave as guitar? 2. How does it sound compaired to guitar and bass? 3 And what guages are usually used? Thanks. (Message edited by jsaylor on February 09, 2007) | ||
| bassjigga
Intermediate Member Username: bassjigga Post Number: 131 Registered: 8-2005 |
It doesn't necessarily have to be one octave above. One of the benefits of the thinner strings is you have all kinds of altered tuning options. Guages will vary. D'Addario's are 0.052, 0.042, 0.032, 0.020. Check out Michael Manring's music. That'll give you some idea of the piccolo sound - as well as crazy amounts of altered tunings. | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 213 Registered: 2-2005 |
Here's a couple piccolo bass samples.... http://hb3.com/mp3/venus.mp3 http://hb3.com/mp3/sugartits.mp3 | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 214 Registered: 2-2005 |
also, if you go here www.myspace.com/fromthelaboratory The song "Turkish Delight" is all piccolo bass, including the "guitar" solo.... | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 502 Registered: 1-2003 |
1. Typical tuning is the same as the bottom 4 strings of a guitar. 2. The best way to think of piccolo bass vs guitar soundwise is that piccolo is more like a piano - or Fender Rhodes. 3. D'Addario (.020-.052), GHS (.018 - .050), Ken Smith (.018-.045 or .020-.050) and La Bella (.012-.030 or .030-.080) have piccolo sets I have tried the D'Addario and GHS and prefer the D'Addario. Also breakage of the GHS .018 can be an issue with more robust playing styles. | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2006 |
hb3, Is venus really on a piccolo? I LOVE that sound. Like a more melodic guitar. I have always loved guitars and basses, and this seems like the best inbetween thing for me. Screw those million string monstrosities, I think I found my dream instrument. Plus I love the Lenin thing you have going. Are you a communist or revolutionary, comrade? (Message edited by jsaylor on February 09, 2007) | ||
| to_81_0190
Junior Username: to_81_0190 Post Number: 42 Registered: 5-2006 |
I found amazing 5string piccolo player. Check this thread. Toshiaki | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 215 Registered: 2-2005 |
Venus is piccolo. And I sort of look like Lenin in those pics, actually.... | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2006 |
Toshiaki, That Kind of disappointed me. Sounds more like a bass in that video. I was wanting a good mix between a guitar and a bass. Something more on the lines of a guitar than could do guitar stuff. | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 226 Registered: 5-2002 |
jsaylor - The tuning is the same on piccolo bass and guitar, but the sound is quite different because the piccolo bass has 30" scale instead of 25" or so. More scale length = more tension which leads to a sound that's more defined and has more attack. When you break away from standard tuning and string gauges, you may get more of the guitarish sound that you mention. Lighter strings will be more guitarish, heavier will be more bass-like. From what you're saying here, it actually sounds to me like you'd probably like baritone guitar. Typically the baritone guitar is around 28" scale (like adding two extra frets on a regular guitar neck). Different people set them up differently, sometimes tuned to D (furthering the +2 frets idea) or lower with heavier strings. Very thick and deep tones are common. I'm not sure whether it's actually played on a baritone guitar, but that the main guitar part in "1979" by Smashing Pumpkins (a huge hit for them) sounds like baritone guitar to me. There's a lowish guitar part that's interwoven with a conventional bass line which sounds like baritone guitar to me. If you played the same line high on a bass it would have a heavier tone and if it were played on a guitar that was tuned down it would sound to floppy and indistinct. David Fung | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2006 |
dfung, I get what your saying. However, just because it has a 27 or 28" scale does not mean it's a baritone. Baritone I believe is tuned half a step down (not positive). Have you seen the new 8 string guitar from Ibanez? 27" scale, normal guitar as far as I can tell, just longer scale( to keep more tension on the low D and B strings) with 2 more strings. I wonder how the sound is affected. But I don't understand your point of more attack. Basses have a longer scale length, but because of the size of the guitars strings, and the tuning, it seems to me that guitar has more attack. Wouldn't the thicker strings on a piccolo reduce the tension? I know alot of people have problems with 5 string basses with a 34" scale because the B string is so big. As for 1979, yes it can be played on a baritone, or a regular guitar aslong as its tuned Eb. Instead of going baritone, I think I'll just go with guitar, then move up to a 7 or 8 string. I'm just starting guitar so thats a ways off for now. I wonder how these 8 string guitars compair to basses, and If I'll need to keep mine around... | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4753 Registered: 5-2002 |
jsaylor wrote, "just because it has a 27 or 28" scale does not mean it's a baritone". Alembic's Baritone guitars have a scale length of 28", as for instance the Orion, California Special, and Spectrum Baritone guitars. So generally, when we're talking about Alembic Baritone guitars, we're talking about guitar models with 28" scale lengths. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 4754 Registered: 5-2002 |
Toshiaki; Wow! Thanks for posting that link! | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 227 Registered: 5-2002 |
I haven't seen the Ibanez 8-string. Is that 2 lower strings? A Universe 7 is already encroaching, you know! :-) Joe Veillette (previously of Veillette-Citron and partnered with Stuart Spector on and off) makes a lot of baritones at his current shop. He has longer scaled ones (28") which are tuned a fourth below a regular guitar, sort of like a 6-string bass except for the 2nd string which is dropped a 1/2 step like a regular guitar. There are shorter ones too which are tuned down a step and high tension (less than 27" scale, so you barely notice the difference until you're down low on the neck). As for attack, to my ears, instruments have a stronger attack when there's more tension on the strings. If you take a regular guitar and tune it in D instead of E with the same strings, then the tension drops and the sound is sort of "floppier" - less attack. Tune that guitar to F# and there will be a lot more tension and "snap" to the sound (hopefully that E string won't poke you in the eye when it breaks). If you put a normal set of bass strings on a 30" bass, they will be very floppy and loose sounding relative to how they sounded on a 34" or 35" scale. If you crank it up an octave, those same string will snap, but if they didn't they'd be super tight. So, how a piccolo bass sounds and feels will be very dependent on exactly what you string it with and how you tune it. So, it could be either way, but I would guess in most cases people would be stringing a piccolo bass with strings that are heavier than the guitar strings that end up at the same tuning. David Fung | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 107 Registered: 1-2005 |
The whole "baritone guitar" thing is very confusing. Fender released what they called the "Jaguar Baritone Custom" recently, but it's actually based on the classic Fender Bass VI, which is tuned like a bass but with 2 extra high stings and a 30" scale. The Baritone Custom is the same but with 28 1/2" scale. The upper neck on my Alembic doubleneck is 30" tuned A-A - the lowest string is between the low E on a bass and the low E on a guitar. Personally, I would think that what makes a baritone a baritone the tuning; that is, it is tuned between a regular guitar and a bass, with scale length being secondary to the determination of whether an instrument is baritone or not. But I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. And I forgot that this is a piccolo thread - here's a track with my Exploiter strung with super-skinny piccolo strings: gnillor I think I got the piccolo set that LaBella has and just tuned it to where it felt right. I'm pretty sure I had it tuned in fifths too, but can't quite remember... | ||
| jsaylor
Member Username: jsaylor Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2006 |
Dave, I see what your saying David (Fung), Yep 2 lower strings. As far as I know, guitars only get lower, not higher (that would be kind of weird if they did.) I see what your saying about tuning to scale length. One question for you since you seem to know alot about this, besides attack, how much is the sound changes inbetween scale lengths? I take it that it sounds lower? | ||
| to_81_0190
Junior Username: to_81_0190 Post Number: 44 Registered: 5-2006 |
Hi Jordan, How do you think about 8(4~2)string bass's sound? In this thread, there is a link to my 8string bass sound clip. Both left and right are recorded with no effected 8string bass. You are welcome to a frank opinion. Toshiaki | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2005 |
That's a great sound. | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 228 Registered: 5-2002 |
Man, an Ibanez guitar with a low F# string? Talk about encroaching on bass territory! I guess new guitar players don't get to play solos, so they need something to keep themselves amused. Between the guitars that cover most of the bass range and all those drummers who have learned how to do a continuous bass drum roll, there's no place left for us anymore! As for the effect of scale changes, it's really hard to generalize because you're balancing off a number of factors. If you held pitch and scale constant and varied the string gauge, the bigger string would have more tension than the smaller one and much more mass. For me, more tension generally equates to a more dynamic attack, but I think we would probably all agree that that bigger string would seem have less attack because of the additional mass of the string - at least intellectually counter-intuitive. Each different brand and model of string will strike a different balance point of mass vs. tension, then you mix scale lengths and tunings in on top of that. I like Rotosound RS66 strings on 4-string basses, but often find that the G string sounds a little "guitary" compared to the other 3 strings, just slightly unbalanced. Maybe a heavier core wire would have fixed it, or a slightly different gauge. Too many variables to actually experiment with! So it is with baritone and other alternate scale lengths. It's very dependent on the string gauges that are available to you as to how it will sound. I guess that there's not that much interest in having a 28" guitar that tries to sound like a 34" bass, so the strings sets you can get are smaller and higher tension. David Fung |
