| Author | Message | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 47 Registered: 1-2007 |
Let me try this again, my thread below asks the question about whether Growl is produced from set necks as opposed to neck through's. Is this true? Someone answered regarding building neck throughs and set necks. This was not my question. I'm basically asking if I am getting a neck through on a Series II am I still going to get that Growl that I get from my Excel? Is the set necks what make the growl or will I get the Growl from a full neck through bass? Thank you, Paul | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 289 Registered: 4-2005 |
Check out Rami's comments here: Rami's Comments Wait - your already in that post. Rami's experiences would be the best measure I think. Next to Susan's & Mica's, of course. (Message edited by lidon2001 on March 07, 2007) | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 630 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Paul, Don't get me wrong, you definitely WON'T be disappointed with a Series II. A Series II is more a virtuoso instrument that sings with clarity, definition, sustain and enormous fundamental. It's all about tone. You can still acheive an impressive growl through it's controls and your setup. An Excel by virtue of it's construction has a naturally less compessed tone, that is to say it's more of a "Slam Bam" type of instrument - big, powerful and punchy. The Excel's "Fat Boy" pickup has a wide aperture and is very loud. Neck construction as well as wood types have a HUGE effect on tone. As well, a Series II is defined perhaps as much by it's electronics as it's construction, one can make up for the other. You can probably make a Series II sound approach that of an Excel but not the other way around. If you can, just try a neck-through and a set-neck side by side and see which you prefer. Remember that an Alembic Series II is MUCH, MUCH more than a simple neck through bass. It commands a premium price and it delivers a very premium sound. As well as being a magnificent work of art. Good luck, Rami (Message edited by rami on March 07, 2007) | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 48 Registered: 1-2007 |
Ya, thanks Rami for that very defined discription. I totally understand what you are saying about the Series II and infact I have one on order. I am just asking a question which is kind of strange in that if perhaps I word it differently maybe this will help. When I was talking to a friend of mine the other night after jamming, I was complimenting him for the growl that his bass produced. His bass by the way is one of these musiciansfriend specials for about $249 which has a bolt on neck. It does have in deed a pretty nice growl to it. But what I've learned by being in this forum for a while and listening to others in here is that the growl is different from tone. It seems to me that growl actually is produced from somewhat of a less suffisticated method so to speak in that it is more of a mechanically produced vibration as the result of the weakness if you will, in the bolt on-set neck type of construction. It actually seems to be the product of less suffistication in the neck construction. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking it. I love growl. I am also leaving out the point that it is also produced somewhat from over modulation. I know I'm not decribing it right and my spelling is terrible but do you see what I am saying? this cheap bass he has does produce nice growl to it, even if he does have bleeding hands at the end of the night or whatever from playing the thing. Anyway he came back with this answer in his kind of stoned/drunk mode that it's the body wood. Now shoot me if I am wrong but I don't think it's the body wood on that $249 bass that's producing that nice growl. I am just wondering that even through the beautiful virtuoso contruction of a Series II that actual "growl" is not as possible as a bolt-on style neck. Do you see what I am saying? Don't get me wrong, I am just drueling over all the Series II's and absolutely cannot wait for my bass. I know how clean and incredible they are, I am just wondering if "growl" itself as I know it is more previlant in a bolt on or set neck than a solid neck through type of bass or do these bass's actually produce growl also even with a solid neck like this? I know that I have a top of the line Carvin with a neck through which was about $1,500 retail and it doesn't get the growl that my friends cheap bolt on gets. Is it in your opinion the wood in his neck compared to mine or is it the difference in bolt-on vs. my solid wood neck through bass? Thank you, Paul | ||
| mele_aloha
Junior Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 49 Registered: 1-2007 |
Here's a follow-up question regarding the above. Do you think that the feature of the month Excel with a set neck could come up with a better growl than let's say Raging Bass or Thunder and Lightning? Is this comparing apples and oranges? Thanks, Paul It's all yours friends, Thanks, Paul | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1075 Registered: 12-2002 |
It basically boils down to the physics of construction a bolt-on physically produces more "thump" (of course electronics plays a factor also),but two peices of wood on-top of each other has that effect of the "thump" where as neck through are wood side by side offering more sustain..........but to compare apples & oranges, two basses with the same construction but w/diffrent electronics is like the "orange" it's gonna be way more juicier than say the apple.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just look an electronic package it will tell you how much juice the fruit has to offer. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 710 Registered: 2-2005 |
Paul, In a neck through most of the tone and sound characteristics come from the the neck itself. The body woods do have some effect but not as much as the neck. Likewise the note fundamentals are more pronounced since you do not lose energy on the neck to body joint. With a set neck or bolt-on the body woods have the most effect on the tone and sound. Do to the energy loss across the neck/body union for the fundamental these types of basses tend to have a mid-range bump. This is the cause of the growl you hear. I used ash as opposed to mahogany in the body of my fretless because it boosts the mid-range even more. With the right electronics and strings you can get close to a set neck or bolt-on sound with a neck through but I don't understand why you would want to. You already have an Excel which has the tone you are looking for so why not use it when the need arises? Likewise use the Series II for the music it sounds best with. Are you concerned you won't like the Series bass? I will say that my main playing bass is a neck through Brown Bass. I also have a mahogany body 5-string Orion and an ash body fretless Orion I use when the situation calls for it. My longer term goal is to get a Series I which would become my main bass. Keith | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 631 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jaco would always claim that his tone was in his hands. Considering what he played, I believe there's alot of truth in that statement. There are so many variables that affect tone from construction, woods, electronics to strings and player technique. We should not expect one Bass to do it all. Sometimes an instrument can be like a suit, you change it for different events or situations. You just need to try different Basses and see what you like. You need not necessarily spend a fortune to get a great sound. Most top pros play simple passive instruments and get a great marketable sound. I recommend checking out Cream's 2005 Royal Albert Hall perfomance where Jack Bruce plays a late 1950's Gibson EB-1 set-neck, and then switches to a fretless neck-through active Warwick Thumb Bass. Both have AMAZING growl. Rami | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 23 Registered: 3-2006 |
maybe it's just me =- but without hearing a sample, who can answer a question like this? One man's growl is another's mud or tone or whatever. Or maybe I'm such a noob that I should keep out of this. I went to Alembic yesterday and played rogue's & series II through their preamp & frankly - NONE of them have the tone I was looking for (I'm not saying I can't make it happen using knobs and Superpass filter, or so mica said. She also said that alembic doesn't do "midrange".) But with my bass and an ampeg svt 3 pro with the tube gain on full the tone is right there for me. Alembics sounded deeper and more dense and the tone was not there. How about posting some sample of what you are looking for. Here's mine. http://www.wakethemup.org/sound_samples.html I love this tone. Maple body and neck thru top of the line ibanez and bart pups with vari-mid eq set to the about 1/8 turn off of the highest mid setting and the mid boost up almost full. *I* think there's plenty of growl & tone. But again, I find this all almost impossible to discuss without hearing a sample. Now Mica said alembic does not do "mid range" and actually won't even use the term,. She prefers speaking in frequencies. If anyone can listen to this sample - the "electrified log" tone - note the "acoustic-hollow" overtones. And tell me what frequencies these are & what Alembic bass can create this without tweaking the heck out of it I would be grateful. I agree alot of the tone is in my hands, as I get that tone by combination tap-striking the string and normal pull across. I can play a bass unplugged and listen the resonance & tell if my desired tone is there. My sense is for my tone it requires a neck through ("log"). | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1176 Registered: 2-2006 |
I agree with Rami and Jaco here. I've always felt that the largest factor in ones sound is their hands. Not everyone that plays a Rick' sounds like Chris Squire and not everyone that plays fretless Fenders sound like Jaco. The only thing I would add if one were to buy an "off-the-shelve" instrument. BUY THE ONE YOU TRY. I have in the past and currently owned/own identical instruments. Same brand, same model, same electronics, same woods.... And they would/do sound different. I currently own 3 Kubickis. Granted one of them has the earlier electronics and I would assume to sound different. But the other 2 are identical (with the execption of color) and they sound completely different. Neither sound bad just different. On a side note I have to add, the more I read this forum the more I respect the people here. Most of the cats here I could and would love to meet and spend hours talking with, Rami being right up there at the top of the list. Keep up th egreat work guys. Olie | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 120 Registered: 1-2005 |
Rickenbacker 4001 & 4003 basses are neck through, and yet they are often said to be famous for their "growl." I find that using both pickups on my 4001 full-on I get a deeper, rounder sound more like a Fender Jazz Bass, whereas with the neck pickup only I get more of a "growly" sound. One thing I have heard is that bolt-ons like the Fender P & Jazz have more lower midrange and less of the deeper bass frequencies, whereas neck-throughs like the Rics are lacking in some of the lower midrange frequencies. I have experienced that to a certain effect when, during a show, I switched from my Ric to my Jazz, and the difference was night and day. The Fender sounded clear and really rang out, with a really punchy sound. It kind of blew everyone away how different it sounded. A couple of people even complained about the Ric, saying that I couldn't be heard because it wasn't cutting through. But I think that they were looking for and expecting the sound that the Jazz made, and while it's a great sound, I was kind of sick of it at that point and stuck with the Ric. Of course, a Rickenbacker and an Alembic are going to sound very different as well, for various reasons, not least of which being the different electronics. I can post some soundclips later (maybe not until after the weekend) - should I put them here or in maclamb's new thread? | ||
| u14steelgtr
Junior Username: u14steelgtr Post Number: 46 Registered: 7-2003 |
Harry; the clarity of the notes at various frequencies has more to do with the sum of the parts and how they are integrated than; whether the neck is mounted to the body or the neck-assembly runs the entire length of the instrument. Every instrument has intrinsic properties which exist before the electronics are selected much less installed. The properties of the electronics if and/or when they are installed in an instrument will also have an impact on the realized sound of the instrument when the electronics are utilized. I’ll not discuss electronics here-in because the instrument and not its electronics are the topic. Solid materials and assemblies basically have some natural resonant frequency. I saw Tommy Emmanuel (a superb guitarist from Australia) pick up a guitar, tap on the soundboard, and comment that its resonant frequency was a B. Tommy was correct. I want to expand on the concept of material assemblies a bit. A drum is a good illustration of this. A drum is comprised of many parts but changing the tension of the drum-head will alter the predominant resonant frequency of the assembly. The reason that many of the better speaker cabinets are assembled out of a combination of particle-board, plastics, and/or other synthetic materials is not simply to keep the cost low; it is also because these materials reduce the tendency for the assemblies to have pronounced resonant peaks which will reduce the assemblies ability to generate a even output throughout the audio spectrum. One of the known challenges with bass guitars is that many of them have resonant frequencies which eat certain notes while other notes are (relatively) too prominent. Back in the 1980’s some people decided to tackle this problem by building replacement necks out of carbon-fiber and resin. They ultimately created a company called Modulus Graphite Products (or something close to this) and tried to market these necks. The company disappeared after a year or 3 as do most of the companies that try to introduce a new product to a market of musicians that are more focused on maintaining food and lodging than they are inclined to spend money to buy a neck to see if the claims of the marketer are at all substantial. One of the reasons that the people that are ordering/buying new Alembic basses obsess about something as seemingly insignificant and neck laminate wood choice and the number of laminates is that this choice really does effect the properties of the instrument. The other reason is that most people do not have an opportunity to sit down with a sample of Alembic instruments which possess the variations which they are considering and try them out side by side. So they post questions on the Forum, they ask each other questions, they debate the pros and cons of every variation which they are aware of, they play each others instruments, and they contact each other when they know that someone has a gig which they can drive-to just to ask if they can come back stage and try out some particular instrument or instruments. This should convey the majority of concepts I wanted to share with you. The gist is that every instrument has intrinsic properties. Whether the neck is bolted-on or not is more of an attribute than a property. I do feel that specific methods of mounting or integrating the neck to/with the body are superior for specific instruments. If one does not assemble a suitable instrument to start out with; you might as well not even think about choosing electronics which will compliment or expand your playing style. Bear in mind that I am an aspiring Luthier so all of the biases associated with being such a person have colored my opinions. -- Eugene | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2006 |
Makes me wonder if anyone ordering a custom bass and woods has ever gotten a nasty shock upon playing it for the first time. Hey! I thought this would sound like.... The flip side, of course, is to actually select the woods, etc., oneself and check them out. I like the bit about the resonant freq of any instrument. Going to see if i can find mine... All things have resonant freqs - including water and humans: http://www.intelligentinfinity.org/watersenses.html | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 632 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's very well said Eugene. In my experience, the ultimate expression of neck-thru and wood laminate design are dramatically illustrated in my "Dark Prince" and "Black Byrd" Basses which are made entirely of ebony and purpleheart with 36" scales. I can only describe their sounds as having a glorious natural chorus that must be heard to be believed. The sustain goes on forever and the fundamental will shake the foundation of my house. Imagine the cleanest, tightest, punchiest Bass tone. A premium price for sheer Bass ecstacy, and worth every penny. The only time I was ever moved to tears by Bass tone was the first time I played them. Just spectacular! Harry, I agree with your assessment of the Jazz Bass versus the Rick. Geddy Lee said pretty much the same thing when he switched back to his Jazz Bass. I think the current American Jazz Bass is the best Fender has made yet. The current neck employs graphite reinforced bars to strengthen and stabilize it. The strings pass through the body to increase their tautness and resonate through the body. The most impressive feature yet is their S-1 switching which changes the pickups from a parallel to series configuration. That provides a HUGE, fat punchy sound that's just amazing. I prefer the ones with the maple fingerboard for that extra brightness and definition. After 4 decades, the current American Fender Jazz Bass has come a long way. The best punch and growl from a mass produced passive Bass yet. I think it's a re-invention of the most successful Bass ever. I have the highest respect and admiration for it. Rami P.S. Thanks for the kind words Olie - Pizza & Beer on me! (Message edited by rami on March 08, 2007) | ||
| u14steelgtr
Junior Username: u14steelgtr Post Number: 47 Registered: 7-2003 |
The majority of guitars & bass guitars that I see that have bolt-on necks use disparate woods in the neck and the body. So comparing an instrument on which the bridge and nut are mounted to the same laminations of ebony, purpleheart, and paduak to an instrument where the bridge is mounted to a slab of poplar or ash and the nut is set in to a maple neck which has a mahogany skunk-stripe to cover the truss rod is a novel comparison in which the distinctions will be abundant. . If however you were to compare a multi-laminate neck-through the body constructed instrument to a similar instrument where the neck is mounted to a body with a center portion which came from the same laminations as the neck; then the differences would most likely be substantially reduced. Regarding the shock of new instruments sound: I do not know the nature of the break-in period for new slab-bodied electric instruments. I find that with acoustic instruments the higher an instrument is tuned the more likely the owner of a brand new custom instrument will be initially disappointed. The break-in period on a new mandolin for example will reveal far more changes in tone than the break-in period for a new Jumbo or D size baritone guitar. A Classical guitar which sounds fabulous at 8 weeks may not have sounded remarkably good when it was delivered 8 weeks earlier. -- Eugene (Message edited by u14steelgtr on March 08, 2007) | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2006 |
I didn't say good - I said "not what was expected". Break in period or no. I never said it wouldn't sound good (however you choose to define good). Matter of fact, if I drop $15K on an instrument it had better sound FREAKING AMAZING. That's a given. My point was BTO and then have it not do what you expect. And it's well to remember - it's all in your mind anyway - you never can know what the bass REALLY sounds like. You 're only comparing indirect sensory representations. It's all completely subjective. And we haven't even discussed $150 guitar cables yet LOL | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 711 Registered: 2-2005 |
Joe said: And we haven't even discussed $150 guitar cables yet LOL Actually we had a couple of conversations last fall on instrument and speaker cables. If you search the site you should be able to find them. :-) Keith | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1313 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm still in shock that people here seem to agree on what to understand by "growl". One man's growl might be another man's string buzz. What one might consider a nice bottom end, the other might call a lower mid range that is being bumped beyond recognition. | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2006 |
thanks adriaan - at least for noobs like me - some samples will help. Other wise black squggles on a white background don't help much | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 633 Registered: 6-2002 |
I suppose that trying to describe sound is a bit like trying to describe color. We can only use euphemisms that others can relate to. I describe "Growl" as actually sounding like a growl, a deep, tight, full, crisp Bass tone. "Growl" is a term I use more for a fretless Bass. I use the term "Punch" for my fretted Basses. My first ever Alembic was a fretless Walnut Excel 4 with basic electronics (which I like best). With the Alembic round wound nickel plated steel strings - It had GROWL! It sounded hauntingly very similar to Jaco's fretless tone - regardless of what I plugged into. That never went away. I can't fully explain why I love the sound of the Excel so much. It may be the pickup position with it's wide aperture. The set neck, Pau-Ferro fingerboard and Ash body definitely play an enormous role. I never needed someone to sell me on my Alembics - I just tried them and couldn't give them back. I just think that the basic Excel is just the greatest Bass in the world. In my simple, subjective opinion. Rami | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 31 Registered: 3-2006 |
Rami This is why they have color swatches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantone (Message edited by maclamb on March 09, 2007) | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 121 Registered: 1-2005 |
All I really wanted to say was that there is an example of a neck-through bass - the Rickenbacker 4001 and 4003 - that is often regarded as possessing "growl". I went to far in trying to characterize neck-throughs vs. bolt-ons, so take anything I set in regards to that issue with a grain of salt. Also, I agree with the comments regarding the ambiguity of the term "growl" - I think I have an idea, but can't go into it now... | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 51 Registered: 1-2007 |
I thank you all for your enterpretations of Growl. I want to clarify to some of you that where I live it is not possible to go try basses on like clothes so that is why I am using this forum to try and get some of your opinions. Also I would like to say that I never said anything about being dissapointed if my Series II doesn't have Growl. I was simply asking if you guys know if Bolt-ons produce more Growl than Neck throughs. I guess you could say that my opinion of Growl is that of like when someone has a little flim in their throat and they continue to talk without clearing it. A kind of fullness in the note where it almost sounds over modulated. But then again like someone said everybody's opinion of Growl may be different. I don't compare growl as being a tone. I find that Growl can happen in many tones. U14, I think you describe it beautifully. Thank you for your time, I know it is precious and I appreciate it very much. This is not to say that there were many different good opinions, thank all of you including Kevin and Keith. Very good explanations. Like I say, I know pretty much what to expect from my Series II, but no one will really know what their bass will completely sound like until it's finished. All you can do is try and use the best combinations into the recipe and hope for the best. As you see my new neck design, you can now tell that I have used alot of info off of this forum to help me as it is completely different from my original order. So I thank all of you for helping me in here as like I said I have no way of going to Alembic and trying instruments. Maybe this thread helped you too, ha Maclamb? Just think also, you never have to go to Alembic again as you now know that they can't make anything to suit you. You can just keep moving on until you find the right sound!! Aloha guys, Paul | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 32 Registered: 3-2006 |
Paul - Exactly! As my wife said - if your bass has the exact tone you want and you can't get it on another ...Buy another one as a backup! So, I'm off the bass lookout and now working on cabinets. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 473 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have a neck thru fretless 7 w/wide ph lams. I would describe the sound as precise, focused and defined.Not a lot of growl. (DM will lee rw 7 set) But as Rami stated the sound is also in your hands. Pressure and release amounts, gauge of strings and the action will be significant factors. I really like the sound on a few Jethro Tull albums, (A, Roots to Branches, Broadsword) very mwhah + growl. I had a mutant bolt 4 a long while back, Shedua body, emg pj, badass bridge, Kubiki lined neck w/epoxy that I could never get to behave. Too much movement in the neck. Not too growly as I remember. I just ordered an Excel fretless 5 that should be a completely different animal. I can chime in with more experience in a few months. | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 52 Registered: 1-2007 |
Well ya know Danno, I only like Growl for certain songs or styles and I don't expect it out of any bass. I was just wondering if I order another bass from Alembic and I want a bass that has nice growl then I am just trying to find out which is the best one to order. But I know that in the near future I am going to want to go to Alembic and just try out Basses just like Maclamb did. Except that unlike his results there, I'm sure I won't even be able to leave the place because I'll be so in love with everything they've got. Although I really don't even know what they have. Does Alembic have a showroom so to speak that you can try out different basses. I'm pretty sure you have to make an appointment to go there. Or is that just if you are going to interview and tour? If anybody knows this I would rather ask here than call on Mica as I know she is very busy and somebody here should know most of the answers to my questions. I am just feeling everybody out about this without having to read the whole forum. Well, I'll let her go here and say Aloha, Paul | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 537 Registered: 12-2004 |
They do have a showroom, and they have always been very welcoming (I've been twice, both times they've been lovely to my wife and me (and my kids)). Make an appointment with Mica and go. You'll really enjoy it. | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 33 Registered: 3-2006 |
Personally, I have been there a few times. Next time I'll go all the way to san jose and try the basses there at Guitar Showcase. Mica kinda hinted at this, I think. Also, Alembic only has a F1 preamp and crown amp to play through - at a guitar place you'll have more choices of amps and speakers. Maybe I caught them on a bad day (though I did make an appt.) - but there seemed a subtle pressure and "annoyance" of having me try all the basses, IMHO. And, since they are special orders for people, they are very sensitive (as well they should be) to others handling the instruments. And how long do you want to spend playing? Remember you're sitting in the front office area and playing - how long would you feel "right" sitting in a business environment? Of Course, YMMV. Plus, I think Mica picked up on the fact I'm not a real potential customer - as I quickly came ot realize as I tried the basses - and that may have had an effect... The tour, however, was great. And if I was gonna fork over a bazzilion $ for a custom made bass - i'd go - there myself - pick out the woods, etc. It's all part of the experience.... (Message edited by maclamb on March 10, 2007) (Message edited by maclamb on March 10, 2007) | ||
| hieronymous
Intermediate Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 122 Registered: 1-2005 |
I've been to Guitar Showcase recently - they had a bunch of Alembic basses (plus at least one, if not two, Tributes!), but I wasn't particularly impressed with the amp selection. I'd give a call first and see what they have on-hand amp-wise... | ||
| maclamb
Junior Username: maclamb Post Number: 34 Registered: 3-2006 |
better yet, bring your own. | ||
| flaxattack
Senior Member Username: flaxattack Post Number: 1402 Registered: 4-2004 |
i have to agree with rami to me growl is a fretless term and punch for fretted that being said direwolf is a neck through with a load of punch thanks to cb and the walnut lam in it- thanks to mica for suggesting it. as far as percentage of sound coming from where 'on a neck through 90% is from the neck on a set neck about 80% = per val here is a good point scooter tribute and scarlet tribute bass will have the same neck- but different body woods and will sound a bit different because of the qcb i changed to. but not overly- i will have more punch and slightly better low end in the end it comes down to wood choices for tonal qualities rami likes ebony for his particular sound i like punch with a tight ball rattling low end so i go coco | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 58 Registered: 1-2007 |
Hey Flax, Did you put Coco Bolo in your necks? Thanks, Paul | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 551 Registered: 12-2004 |
Maple/PH/Ebony on Direwolf, Maple/PH/Vermilion/Ebony on Scooter and Scarlet. No cocobolo in the neck. Bradley | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 59 Registered: 1-2007 |
Oh OK. Because he just said in the last post that 80-90% sound comes from the necks and then he mentioned that he likes punch so he uses coco bolo. But that basically means that only 10-20% of the punch is coming from the coco bolo. No big deal because I am going coco bolo even with my neck through but I was just thinking hmmmm,, I wonder how coco bolo in the neck would be? Have you heard of it being used before in the neck? I know one thing, it would look good! Thanks, Paul | ||
| bassjigga
Intermediate Member Username: bassjigga Post Number: 154 Registered: 8-2005 |
If I remember correctly, I think Mica has said something about coco bolo being unsuitable for necks because of it's high oil content. Some trouble with gluing or something. Tone-wise I don't think it would sound drastically different from ebony and ebony can be used in necks. | ||
| tom_z
Senior Member Username: tom_z Post Number: 504 Registered: 7-2004 |
Cocobolo is a fretboard option. http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_fingerboards.html | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 553 Registered: 12-2004 |
I think it is widely held that the 10-20% number for the body doesn't completely hold with cocobolo-- it is the secret sauce. Mojo. Bradley | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2002 |
Cocobolo is dense and heavy which creates a unique tone, but one of the main reasons that it's popular is that it's highly figured and is visually pretty cool. If you used it for neck laminations, not much of the grain would be visible, so it might not be the best use of your instrument dollars. Another problem that would arise would be that the shrinkage over time would be quite different than maple or some of the other common neck woods. There's no physical reason that you couldn't use it, but you'd probably feel ridges where the laminates meet on the back of the neck 10-15 years down the road. Some people might not like that (I actually think the "finish sinking" is really cool). This wouldn't be an issue for a cocobolo fingerboard or elsewhere on the instrument. David Fung | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1322 Registered: 6-2002 |
Surely they could offer coco bolo with low grade figuring, as neck laminates, as a no-charge upgrade from purpleheart? ;-) | ||
| jags
Intermediate Member Username: jags Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2006 |
ummm no i dont think so. not even close,is my guess. remember purpleheart is just pretty maple. not cocobolo. i thought coco bolo would be great in a neck too,but then i thought the $ would be outrageaous for 1/4" sawn coco bolo.plus yes it is a "designer" top,why not use maccassar ebony for laminates instead of normal ebony.....not!! that top is also for show. in a neck laminate 1/4" sawn would be a fortune i would guess. just stay with ebony,mahoghany,cherry,vermillion,walnut,purpleheart,and maple for neck laminates i think my custom neck(if i'm ever lucky enough to get a new custom) would be...blood red vermillion in the center,flanked by two ebony strips,flanked by two maple strips,and two wide mahoghany strips (that the bridge could hopefully be mounted in). i would like to get a "heart stinger" cutout(that would have super red vermillion and black ebony through the stinger part),and valentino "bird of prey" body if it would work with the stinger. with a gold plated bird tailpiece intergally mounted,right next too(obviously) the stinger | ||
| jags
Intermediate Member Username: jags Post Number: 113 Registered: 12-2006 |
ummm no i dont think so. not even close,is my guess. remember purpleheart is just pretty maple. not cocobolo. i thought coco bolo would be great in a neck too,but then i thought the $ would be outrageaous for 1/4" sawn coco bolo.plus yes it is a "designer" top,why not use maccassar ebony for laminates instead of normal ebony.....not!! that top is also for show. in a neck laminate 1/4" sawn would be a fortune i would guess. just stay with ebony,mahoghany,cherry,vermillion,walnut,purpleheart,and maple for neck laminates i think my custom neck(if i'm ever lucky enough to get a new custom) would be...blood red vermillion in the center,flanked by two ebony strips,flanked by two maple strips,and two wide mahoghany strips (that the bridge could hopefully be mounted in). i would like to get a "heart stinger" cutout(that would have super red vermillion and black ebony through the stinger part),and valentino "bird of prey" body if it would work with the stinger. with a gold plated bird tailpiece intergrally mounted,right next too(obviously) the stinger | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1323 Registered: 6-2002 |
Just as long as you know that the "blood red vermillion" turns dark in time. Same with purple heart, by the way. From time to time, they may have some 'less interesting' woods, for instance "watermark koa" (check out the Spoiler in my profile) - I would guess that it costs less than flame koa, which is right up there with coco bolo, price-wise. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1185 Registered: 2-2006 |
This thread has taken a few turns from growl to tone to wood and back top growl. As for the physics of wood and construction of how they add or remove tone, growl....I am not the man to answer that question. I can say though that I have several different brands of basses and of them all the brand that has the most "growl" are my Warwicks. And the neck-thru WW’s have more growl than the bolt on WW's. My favorite of all my axes though is my 3/4 MK 4 string. I can get the tone and right amount of growl I like on any rig I plug it into, again a neck thru bass. I did jam this weekend with some friends, and a guitar player I haven't played with in years mentioned that the sound I got while we jammed was what he called "my signature tone". He stated that I've had that sound for years and could tell it was me just hearing it. This was the first time he'd heard me on an Alembic. So again I surmise that the hands play a larger factor than we may realize. | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 131 Registered: 11-2003 |
Rami, Upon recieving your beautiful bass you commented on the near chorus like sound of the Series II electronics. I as well experience that same sound every time I pick up one of mine. I'm getting ready for the next build and I'm considering a Series I package given space limitations. Without the usual discussion of woods and necks. I'll ask the general question to everybody who owns both S1 & S2'S. Does your Series I also slightly chorus like the S2? Perhaps slightly chorus is the wrong term,ah... depth of field? Clarity? Characteristic voice? I know I can't live without it once experienced. But not having played a Series I for a number of years or having the ability to side by side compare I find myself at a slight disadvantage in the decision process at this time. Hey KMH364 HAAAALP! | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 634 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Barry, The Series II electronics are more about tone shaping with the CVQ's and tone controls. That chorus effect I experience with my "Dark Prince" and "Black Byrd" Basses is more a result of the woods rather than the electronics. They share identical woods in their construction - Ebony and Pupleheart exclusively. Of the two, only the "Black Byrd" features Series II electronics. "Dark Prince" uses standard Rogue electronics. Mica mentioned that's one of the effects of Ebony neck laminates. I must clarify my description of the Series II sound which is actually super quiet with great tone shaping. That's how my Triple Omega Series II sounds. It has a Maple neck with Purpleheart laminates. Clean, crisp sound with infinite sustain and harmonics. Rami (Message edited by rami on March 15, 2007) | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 4299 Registered: 6-2000 |
This thread has taken a couple of twists, hasn't it? --------------------------------------------- Paul, Your Series II and Excel are going to sound so different from eachother. There will be similarities too, but since the construction, woods and electronics are all different, so will the sounds. As for growl, this is something that I hear most closely associated with controlled mechanical contact between the strings and the frets (or fingerboard on a fretless). This is a matter of setup and playing technique. Try this: does the bass have the growl unamplified? If so, then it's mechanical, and should be able to reproduced on another bass' setup. There will be instances where the motion of the string is influenced more by the construction and the actual materials used, but the largest component is the player and their technique. I suspect you will play these two basses with at least slightly different techniques, to get the most of out each. About Coco Bolo in the neck, I'm not too excited to try it. It is quite oily, and I don't like giving that structural joint an extra hard time of working well. Maybe I'll test it someday if there's some Coco Bolo around that's about the right size for neck lams and nothing else as an experiment. If we ever do, I'll let you know! --------------------------------------------- Joe, I will say I was confused, because what you initially told me was that you had already found the perfect sound from your bass. I listened to what you were seeking, and suggested Alembic basses might not be right for you, that you would be fighting the nature of the instrument. Since the sound you prefer isn't something that I think can come easily from an Alembic, I agree with your wife (she sounds practical!). Sorry I gave you some impression of annoyance. I talk to people on the phone, in person and through email every day that will probably never be Alembic customers, and it's not something I even consider when conversing. I give out the information that is requested of me. I was surprised you only tried out two basses. It sounds like you'll be taking my other advice to bring the rest of your equipment when you are testing a new component. I don't think it's really possible to make a good decision about adding to your sound without the rest of your components. You might get lucky, but it's so much better to be certain. And of course, if you come the 25 minutes north again, you're welcome to bring your Ampeg (or whatever you wind up getting new) with you, so you can test out instruments with amplification you are familiar with. --------------------------------------------- Barry, I agree with Rami on the sound from his basses. The wood combinations are getting the strings to behave differently. What's great is Rami can confirm this because it's behaving the same with two different sets of electronics, but identical woods. I'll expand and say I think the sound is one of the effects of so much Ebony in the necks. Rami's 6-strings have a lot of Ebony in them. The Series I is a subset of Series II, so the sounds are very similar. The only sonic difference is the way you interact with the Q controls, and that the Series II has a higher available Q setting. The only extra space needed is for the master volume (which you can delete if you need the room). --------------------------------------------- Aadrian and others, Regarding talking about music, about a month ago, I had a customer that wanted a "punchier" sound than the Elan bass he used to own, so I suggested an Orion. He tried it, and said it had too much midrange. He meant more bass response when he said "punchier," where I've had many other people describe punchy as more mid range (another loose term!). So my dad and I were discussing the frustration of using terms like bass, midrange, treble, growl, etc. since these are subjective and based on the listener's experiences. We decided we should do some recordings, and take a poll to see what the perceptions of these recording were. You listen, then you answer if you think it's bassy, punchy, or a new word to describe the sound. It's not like it would be scientfic, but it might be interesting, and at least get some sonic reference to these indistinct decriptions. Of course, you can always communicate in frequencies to eliminate confusion. | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1187 Registered: 2-2006 |
I think that’s an excellent idea Mica. I agree that what one person might describe as “punchy” another might hear as “mid-heavy and unclear”. It’s like when my wife said she wanted to paint our living room “mauve”. I lived with a PINK living room for 4 years. Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder I suppose. | ||
| dadabass2001
Senior Member Username: dadabass2001 Post Number: 760 Registered: 6-2002 |
I would love to speak in terms of frequencies, but I have no access to a scope or frequency counter to even know what I'm getting now. Another gray area term I've used (and been called on) is "woody". I would love to participate in some subjective tests or see results of same. Mike | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2084 Registered: 9-2003 |
Mica: Always the voice of reason. Great idea RE: the soundbytes. Please do so post-haste! Barry: You can have the Series I to try any time you like. Lemme know and I'll bring it to work and we can meet for lunch to do the exchange. Just bear in mind that the wood cocktail is probably not something you'd dig (quilt maple/PH/mahogany/PH/quilt maple body "sandwich" and two PH lam maple neck). She's mint so as long as she comes back with no dings, scratches, buckle rash or PB&J on the strings: you want it, you got it. FWIW, considering I have three nearly identical Alembics (the two EMW Orion set-necks are clones and the Series is the same wood cocktail excepting the mahogany core varies from the swamp ash bodies in the Orions), the sound differences are CLEARLY audible ACOUSTICALLY. That is to say, play 'em back-to-back BEFORE you plug 'em in and you can clearly hear the difference the two construction techniques make towards tone. The set-necks are much more "lively" and have a pronounced midrange coloration (that was the desired effect of the original EMW COTM that both my Orions copy). The thru-neck Series has a sound with more lows and less mids...the low freq. fundamentals are much more pronounced...the thing just plain "goes deeper" than the set necks. For clarity of individual notes, i.e., note separation: the Series is superior. For "warmth": the Orions win. Plug them in, and you have those intrinsic qualities, with the added flexibility that Alembic electronics possess. Which one is better? Depends on what you define as "better"! Bottom line is that everyone's got a different set of ears and tastes: play EVERYTHING and decide for yourself. Cheers, Kevin | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 132 Registered: 11-2003 |
Mica/Rami, hello and thanks for the replies. It is interesting to me that the ebony has that much of an affect on the sound. Clearly the same construction and woods with different electronic packages would seem to confirm this. However,I to experience this same wonderful sound out of Jelly and her brother which has a maple/purple heart neck and the wider rogue shape. Same body style both in coco bolo. That's why I assume the electronics package had something to do with it. Mechanically,when I pluck them side by side the G,D and A strings sound identical. The E string sounds darker on Jelly because of the PH. I must stop and appologize to this threads contributors. I figured Rami would be following this thread and would be the best and fastest way to get a response. I would ask that this discussion be brought to a new thread. Mica,I e-mailed your mom the other day with some requests/plea's/guidance. So perhaps,after speaking with her, I could ask you to respond by kicking off a new thread. Mele, I have several fretless from various builders three from Alembic(so far) I find that with all the variables of the different instruments I can still coax a woody growl out of any of them depending on how I use my hands. Bolt on necks,set necks,neck throughs, coated fingerboards EI,EI,OH all may or may not make a difference on the production of THAT sound. However,some construction combo including wood density within the same species may make it easier than others to hear that sound.By having both style Alembics you have two ways to achieve it. What tool box has a single screw driver in it? | ||
| bigbadbill
Advanced Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 285 Registered: 10-2003 |
Whilst I'd agree (speaking from experience) that different neck constructions are a factor in the sound of an instrument, it has to be remembered that each individual instrument will sound different regardless because even the same type of wood grows differently from tree to tree and therefore from piece to piece, just the same as we are all different. I'm a huge Rickenbacker fan, and have a wealth of experience playing these instruments. I've owned around 8 or 10, have played hundreds, and every single one of them has sounded different, even before plugging in. Same strings, same set up, different tone, in EVERY SINGLE ONE of them. So it really isn't quite as straight forward as "neck thru vs bolt on", or even maple vs mahogany or whatever. All maple (or whatever) instruments may have similar characteristics (describe them as you will) but they will not sound the same, even in the same body shape. I think the soundbytes idea is great as a reference. Bear in mind though, one person playing an instrument will sound different to another playing the same instrument. Rami's comments about Jazz basses are a case in point. Rami is obviously a great fan of the Jazz Bass, and rightly so; its track record cannot be argued with. However I have played dozens and dozens of Jazz basses from all eras and have never in my life got a decent sound out of any one of them (well, there was a '76 with EMGs which was ok). I've absolutely hated all the newer ones I've played, utterly detested them. But as a case in point, a few years ago a bought an early Tokai Jazz Bass. I took it to rehearsals and it sounded awful, no matter what I did. I then took it to my luthier for some work, and one of the guys who worked there was like "wow, cool bass" and plugged it in. It sounded amazing, absolutely amazing, when he was playing it. I've experienced the same many times since. So I've come to the conclusion that Jazz basses and my technique just do not get along. And that is no fault of the Jazz bass, of the woods it is made of or the way it's constructed. I've also found the same with the majority of P-Basses, strangely enough. As for being shocked at the way a custom built bass sounds, I've had that happen to me. The first one I had built was lovely but far too polite for me; the second was way too thin and snappy (neither were Alembics). Both were my wood choices, and both were wrong (my fault). I now understand that with the possible exception of Alembics, maple basses are the way to go for me. Whenever I pick up a maple bass it works with my technique, rather than against it; given that I learnt to play on a Rickenbacker that may not be entirely surprising. But the sound I get out of a maple bass (bearing in mind they will all differ anyway) may not be the sound someone else gets out of one. And how I describe the sounds I'm getting is another issue entirely! | ||
| bigbadbill
Advanced Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 286 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh, I'd also agree with OlieOliver regarding Warwicks and growl; if I had to use an example of what I perceive to be a growly bass I'd personally cite a Warwick Thumb or similar. My Alembic isn't really very growly at all, as I perceive it. | ||
| jbybj
Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2006 |
Bigbadbill's comments remind me of my long held fear of buying any instrument without fondling it first. There in lies some of the thrill of have an instrument custom made. You can theorize, plan, and have the best intentions, but you never really know what you'll end up with. My only Alembic, and Epic, I bought used because it seduced me in person. I think I would rather pay $10k on a used Alembic that someone else designed as long as I could meet it first, than to design my own. James | ||
| dfung60
Advanced Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 237 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think that many of these vague characterics are the byproduct of instrument setup which heavily influences how your hands (particularly the left hand for you righties) interact with the strings. The physical effects of instrument construction play into this too - certain sorts of sounds can't easily be produced on certain instruments, but I imagine everybody here has handed their instrument to somebody else only to have it sound completely different! Some of the most common and elusive sounds are "mwah" (on a fretless) and "growl". I think these are pretty much coming from your left hand fretting pressure. Fret solidly and you'll get a regular note, but finger it lightly and you'll get "mwah" on a fretless. What's happening is that the fingered end of the string is buzzing and slapping around on the fretboard which slows the attack and makes the note blossom. "Growl" (at least to me) is dominated by the string hitting the fret tops lightly which adds some enharmonic content as well as more highs. But I think a light touch with the fretting hand helps here to, again to slow down the attack of your notes. This is where the setup of the instrument comes in. If you have a lot of relief, like high action, or really stiff strings, then it's going to be harder for you to be able to delicately modulate your fingering pressure and get these effects. That's why some inexpensive basses have such great tone - it's just the luck of how the neck turned out. For mwah on fretless basses, the condition of the fingerboard and how it's shaped matters too. I think you'll find that a fingerboard with grooves from string wear may be more likely to have the buzzy effect if the overall action allows for a lighter touch. Often fretless fingerboards are cut with a "ramp" from the 4th fret to nut so the low notes will finger better (e.g., you don't have to press down so abruptly near the nut) which has the effect of lowering the action in the low end of the neck. Set neck, bolt-on, or through body doesn't matter so much for this, as it's mostly a matter of getting the action to support your ability to play lightly. The additional adjustability of a bolt-on (e.g., adjusting neck angle) might help if you're searching for more mwah though. I saw a couple of other terms that popped up in the discussion that probably are more influenced by construction. Examples of this would be "woody" and "thump". The neck and body of the instrument are a very complex mechanical filter. The strings vibrate, but the physical response of the instrument isn't linear at all. Certain notes will be reinforced, others will be cancelled out, largely by the physical characteristics of the neck. When you play a note, the neck will influence not only the fundamental but the harmonics as well and they'll all attack, decay, and sustain at different speeds. That response over time (temporal response) is what we hear as the characteristic sound of this instrument. If you had a suitable spectrum analyzer, you could see the frequency response of the neck as well as how it changes over time with the vibration of the string. The choice of wood influences this, as do the individual characteristics of each piece of wood. The body joint also has an effect, along with strings, pickups, etc. I suspect for most people, a "woody" bass is an instrument that demonstrates a frequency response that has a lot of peaks and dips. The opposite of that, a "flat" bass might be less abrupt. Alembics, with laminated through-body necks made of maple and purpleheart will lean strongly toward the flat side. A Warwick, made of denser and oilier bubinga and wenge probably will have more extreme frequency variations and sound woodier. I think that losing the maple in an Alembic would probably change the characteristics quite a lot which would be good for some and bad for others! "Thump" is an interesting one for me. I think this sound (think Motown) is all about having a strong attack that is muted very quickly and sustains at a lower level. James Jamerson did this by physically muting the strings a lot, but I think that a bolt-on neck would probably be a big factor here too. With a though-body, both ends of the string sit on the same piece of wood, and vibration from one end to the other is seamless. With bolt-ons or set necks, the ends of the string are sitting on different pieces of wood, and a lot of energy will be lost where they connect (for you techies, this is a physical impedance mismatch). Even with a carefully crafted joint which it tightly bolted or glued, there will be energy loss here, which translates to less sustain over time. If you want a long smooth sustain, I think a through-body is hard to beat, but if you're trying to emulate a P-Bass, that monsterous sustain is working against you, even if you physically mute the string. It's all really pretty complex and unquantifiable. The fun part is that every instrument will be different, along with how you set it up and play it! David Fung | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1144 Registered: 9-2002 |
It's understandable since most of us will never have the chance to walk in anywhere and try five or six Alembics that there's a considerable amount of wonder about ultimately what your new axe will sound like. I can't imagine that you won't be able to find any sound known to man with a Series 2. What I never see in these questions is the fun of getting a new axe and the discovery of its personality, and the ultimate blending of the axe and the player. Most of us have been around plenty, and know that an Alembic is going to be a discovery, a fresh outlook, a new direction brought on by playing something ultimately different than the 'off the rack' basses we all had up till now, if it's you're first. The magic is you + bass. NO axe is ever going to be EXACTLY, 100% what you thought it would be. Thank goodness. It's magic and passion and discovery. I'll MAKE it sound like me. A Series 2 and any modern preamp or amp has more tone control than recording consoles did 20 years ago, so I'd find whatever I was looking for. I'd still find it if it had one volume knob only, straight into the back of a power amp. Ultimately, it's GONNA sound like me (or you). Make no mistake, a Series 2 is a Mount Everest of a bass. But laying in its case, it's as dead as a 2x4. With you, it (or any instrument) makes magic, plugged in and doing it's thing. The mystery of who it will be is the fun. J o e y | ||
| bob
Senior Member Username: bob Post Number: 830 Registered: 11-2002 |
Thank you, David, that's one of the most cogent and articulate discussions, on a very difficult subject, I have ever seen here. | ||
| bigbadbill
Advanced Member Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 287 Registered: 10-2003 |
Great post David, and it touches on something that always irritates me; people who tell me that higher action always equates to better sound. They've obviously never heard me attempting to play a bass with high action! It just doesn't work with my technique. I can get a far, far better tone out of a bass with really low action because of the way I fret/strike the string. I don't know if anyone is familiar with the video/dvd of "Meeting of the Spirits" but I'll attempt to use it to illustrate this. Many bassists I know would be aiming for a "bass equivalent" version of Paco De Lucia's sound; i.e . big, round, strong, focused. It's a great sound. Unfortunately that's not what I'm after, or what I can work with. I'd be going for a bass equivalent of John McLaughlin's sound. Slinky, fluid, a bit buzzy. A little more mellifluous. So for me, high action and heavy strings are most definitely not the way to go. And David's so right, as I've argued so many times; it's amazing how a change in setup (even with the same strings) can affect the sound you produce. The sound produced is one of the factors I use to determine my ideal string height. | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2007 |
Very good writing from all of you. Mica and David-, you are right on regarding mechanics and technique. I was focusing to much on the physical materials only and not the style and settings. The following paragraph from David is best said, "This is where the setup of the instrument comes in. If you have a lot of relief, like high action, or really stiff strings, then it's going to be harder for you to be able to delicately modulate your fingering pressure and get these effects. That's why some inexpensive basses have such great tone - it's just the luck of how the neck turned out. For mwah on fretless basses, the condition of the fingerboard and how it's shaped matters too. I think you'll find that a fingerboard with grooves from string wear may be more likely to have the buzzy effect if the overall action allows for a lighter touch. Often fretless fingerboards are cut with a "ramp" from the 4th fret to nut so the low notes will finger better (e.g., you don't have to press down so abruptly near the nut) which has the effect of lowering the action in the low end of the neck." Just to again let ya guys know that I wasn't inferring that I would be dissapointed if my Series II didn't have Growl. Again, I don't live anywhere near Alembic's that I can try out so I was just simply asking for your experiences. And as well stated by just about all of you the term "Growl" is all in the eye of the beholder. For Ones Growl might easily be ones horrible string setting or the strings and the way they strike them themselves. So I can see that we all agree that my friends cheap bass might just well be from the cheap wood or the high string settings themselves. And who said that one needs growl in every song. Not me!!!lol I was just really trying to become more educated as I will be persuing a fretless in the future and would like it to be able to produce "Growl" one way or the other. But I'm learning-, thanks to all of you. But this has been a fun thread as well as an informing one. May I apologize for druelling on all of your Series II's as well as other basses that are in here, I just can't help myself until mine comes. Aloha to all, Paul da Plumma | ||
| tbrannon
Advanced Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 341 Registered: 11-2004 |
Rami, I'm asking this of you- because I know how much you love Alembics and I know that you've been sorely tempted by those Alembic Jazz basses we've seen on the Bassworld UK site. Why not make a set neck Elan? You'd get the set neck "growl" that you associate with your Excel basses and the slightly modified Elan body style seen on those Alembic Jazz's would be a tip o' the hat to the classic Jazz. I'm asking because I'm hoping and saving for a custom somewhere down the road- it will be the Elan body style- the rest is yet to be decided. Toby | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 636 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Toby, Alembic's Orion is a cool set-neck with an Elan style body. I actually have an Orion 5 with a cool Purpleheart top that I love very much. It's got great punch and growl - I'll post a picture of it soon. It was featured on the Alembic store page once. It has a total purple theme including the neck accent laminates and the Abalone shell inlays. It's a real beauty. But it's still very different from a Jazz Bass. Best of luck for your future project. Rami (Message edited by rami on March 23, 2007) | ||
| tbrannon
Advanced Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2004 |
Rami, Thanks for your input- it's kinda what I figured, but I thought I'd ask you because I know you've had plenty of experience with a 'few' different Alembics. =) I'm keeping my eye out for an Orion 5 in the next 12-16 months. It will give me some Alembic set neck experience to compare to my Rogue. I'll go from there- but that Elan shape is just "IT" for me. Toby | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 638 Registered: 6-2002 |
I really dig that custom fretless at the Alembic store. It must have AMAZING growl - and it's beautiful to boot! |
