| Author | Message | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2006 |
Hi Guys! I hv 3 Persuaders and am very happy with the sound and playability.But lately I am thinking of replacing one of the bass's pickups and elect. with Bartolini,to get a totally different sound. Does anyone ever done it?Does the curvature/fingerboard radius match? Is the sound signal uniform string to string? Any information would be truly appreciated . Thank you very much. Robert | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1404 Registered: 6-2002 |
It will sound much like other basses with Bartolini electronics - not sure that you win much that way. And not all Bartolini pickups will sound the same. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1542 Registered: 3-2004 |
I'm not sure if it matters in your country, but you'd harm the value of the instrument relative to the market over here. Many of us who love these instruments cringe when we hear talk like this. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 466 Registered: 5-2006 |
I agree on that, replacing with non Alembic pickups comes close to heresy... (imho) But it's your bass of course... | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 590 Registered: 4-2005 |
I'd buy a bass with Bartolinis and leave the Alembics original. drr | ||
| hydrargyrum
Advanced Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 254 Registered: 3-2004 |
I have to agree with the above posts. Most of us would devalue the instrument if it was modified in such a way. As beautiful as the woodworking is, for some of us its the guts that make it an Alembic. | ||
| mcdonap
Junior Username: mcdonap Post Number: 22 Registered: 2-2007 |
I'm pretty new to Alembics. The thing I like most about them is the unique sound. My getting an Alembic was, in fact, and attempt to get a sound other than the Bart sound found in SO many basses these days. I'm not judging that sound or saying there's anything wrong with it, but I just think the Alembic sound is better. (Again, purely subjective - just my opinion.) I think if I really wanted a totally different sound, I'd experiment with some outboard equipment first. Pat | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2300 Registered: 7-2004 |
This reminds me of the old story about Jose Canseco when he was with the Oakland A's. It seems Jose went out and spent $70,000 on a Jaguar (this is at least 20 years ago) and then spent an additional $25,000 customizing it so that it wound up looking like a Camaro! Bartolini's in an Alembic? Sort of like dropping a Mustang V8 into a Ferrari. Bill, tgo | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 989 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you spend enough time fiddling with your controls, I believe you'll find that you can get the Bartolini tone(s) from your Alembic. John | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1245 Registered: 2-2006 |
OOPS dbl post (Message edited by olieoliver on April 12, 2007) | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1246 Registered: 2-2006 |
I would personally never replace my Alembic electronics, BUT it is your Bass Roberto to do with as you wish. This cat be may be able to help. I believe he used to work for Alembic (Message edited by olieoliver on April 12, 2007) | ||
| bracheen
Senior Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 1202 Registered: 11-2003 |
SF-2 | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 41 Registered: 3-2006 |
Guys,I agree with you that once you try a Alembic,it will be the love of your life.Thats why I hv 3 Alembics.But buying another fine bass with Barts can cost 3k or above.So Im just thinking of having that Bart sound with the bass thats been familiar on my hand. And my concern is the fingerboard radius match.Alembic is 12".Bartolinis is 14" if Im not mistaken. So nobody ever tried that? | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 42 Registered: 3-2006 |
John811952 andMacdonap,thanks for the good and practical advise. robert | ||
| terryc
Intermediate Member Username: terryc Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2004 |
why oh why would anyone want to put other PU's in an Alembic, I can understand putting Alembic PU's in another bass but not the other way around.(My 83 Squier sports P/J activators - transformed the sound by 1000%) Leave alone, buy a reasonbale bass and put whatever you like in it, thati is my opinion | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1405 Registered: 6-2002 |
If you prefer the Bartolini sound over the Alembic sound, go for it. IIRC, the standard Persuader package has a fixed 8 dB Q boost on the filter, and there is no switch to turn it off. For my taste, the 8 dB boost is really too much, and so I had the 0/8 dB Q switch on my Spoiler replaced with a 0/3/6 dB one. Much nicer on the ears, especially with new strings. Check with Mica if you could add such a switch yourself. Whatever you do, keep the original electronics, and try not to drill any additional holes in the bass - well, except if you add the Q switch, which is an excellent upgrade on the original package anyway. | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2121 Registered: 9-2003 |
Robert, Just my two cents: While I personally wouldn't put anything besides Alembic guts in any Alembic, You do have an alternative to a $3k-plus bass: Assuming you don't mind used, there are plenty of decent "kit" basses out there (Sadowsky, Lakland. etc.) that come with Barts that are available for well under that. If you want new, you can always build whatever you want (bolt-on Fender-style) and add the electronics of your choice. While there are plenty of kit part suppliers out there, Warmoth offers custom options including finishing. All you have to do is pick/choose and then put it together and set it up. A professional can do either or both chore(s) for you, if you desire (and have the pocketbook). I'm certainly with Adriaan here: if you do decide to put non-Alembic guts in your bass(es), I personally wouldn't drill any additional holes, and I would hold onto the Alembic guts. You can always re-install them at a later date. It's my personal opinion that you'll gain nothing with the Barts over the OEM Alembic stuff. Good Luck! Cheers, Kevin | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 591 Registered: 4-2005 |
Robert , if you do make the switch I may be interested in buying your Alembic pickups to help you fund your project. Email me if interested. My address is on my profile. drr | ||
| essencetimestwo
Intermediate Member Username: essencetimestwo Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2003 |
I have a Modulus Deluxe Sonic Hammer with a Bartolini MM style pickup and two band preamp for sale or trade if you are interested. | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 43 Registered: 3-2006 |
Guys,Thanks for the opinions. I think we buy a bass and keep using it for two reasons:its good in our hands and it sounds good to our ears.Now I have three Alembics,and all are so comfortable in my hands.So I guess,rather than buying another decent bass with Barts,like Fodera,Pedulla,or Ken Lawrence,the best way is to just install the electronic on the Alembic. For those who didnt like the idea,think about this:HOW CAN YOU GET A USED FODERA OR KEN LAWRENCE WITH A PERSUADER OR EUROPA SHAPE?Not too mention the comfortability that we are used too with an Alembic. I guess we should be open minded guys. 57basstra, and essencetimestwo ,thank you very much for the offer.I live in Indonesia and the shipping cost would be too costly.Thanks anyway. robert | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 513 Registered: 3-2004 |
You asked, passionate folks responded and for the most part when it comes to these instruments "open minded" is not an atribute in terms of non-Santa Rosa conversions. I acquired an Essense 5 that someone drilled and put thumbrests on. I just sent it back to be repaired and refinished. That is my way of dealing with conversions. Would I put other pups in others instruments? Yes I have done so with Gibsons, Hamers, Fenders but I would not want to change the sound of my Alembics. But to each his own. Many other players change their guts to Alembic in this arena. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. | ||
| mele_aloha
Member Username: mele_aloha Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2007 |
I see what you are saying though Roberto. You would like to stay with the comfort of the ride and just change the performance so to speak. I understand, and since you have three, why not! I couldn't tell you the outcome but I do agree with you staying with the Alembic and just changing the guts alittle. I say-Why not? Go for it!! Aloha, P | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1546 Registered: 3-2004 |
It's not unreasonable to tweak an Alembic to open up another tonal palette. I just wanted to make the point that the modification would result in a loss in value. If you love the result and intend to keep it, then it doesn't matter. If you can, just make it a reversible swap and keep the original electronics around. Swap out the whole lot, including the jack, to make this easier. | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 645 Registered: 6-2002 |
I also have a thing for originality. Had Alembic used aftermarket pickups, it wouldn't be a big deal to replace them. But since they make their own pickups, replacing them would take away from what makes them Alembics. I have a couple of Lado neck-thru Basses equiped with Bartolinis. They sound pretty good, but I'm considering upgrading to Alembic pickups! ;-) Rami | ||
| jags
Intermediate Member Username: jags Post Number: 130 Registered: 12-2006 |
yes please dont do this its a complete waste of time,$ and effort. save those bart's for a lesser bass. put your $ into a sf-2 and you'll forget bartolini's exist. honestly its a waste of everything. money ,time effort. let alone taking off strings and actually, removing electronics!!!!!! are you nutz???!!! | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 512 Registered: 9-2005 |
It's your right of course... but I think it's a terrible idea. Alembic pickups are the best... taking them out to put in Bartolinis... it's like taking off one of your legs and replacing it with a peg leg so you can have a "different stride." If you want a different sound, I'd suggest getting Alembic to send you what you need to install a 3-position Q switch, maybe 0/3/6 or 0/4/8 dbs... and/or seeing if they could send you a pair of bass & treble boost/cut switches. This would give you tremendous added versatility. What you're proposing would be maiming your bass -in my eyes. But, it is, of course your bass; so you should do as you choose. | ||
| the_8_string_king
Senior Member Username: the_8_string_king Post Number: 513 Registered: 9-2005 |
Another possible option would be to see if you could TRADE one of your Persuaders for ANOTHER Alembic that is known to have a very different type of sound... like an Epic, Orion, or Excell. By all accounts, these models do sound very different, yet have a loyal following. I haven't played an Excell, but my understanding is they have a distinctly different sound due to the set neck construction and body woods. And they're "lower end" models, pricewise, so maybe you might be able to find someone who'd be willing to trade. Just a thought. I do realize that, being in Indonesia, there probably aren't too many floating around, and shipping is expensive. But you never know. Good luck with whatever you decide. | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 598 Registered: 4-2005 |
Mark, the 'peg leg for a different stride' reference was hilarious – and graphic. drr | ||
| george_wright
Intermediate Member Username: george_wright Post Number: 117 Registered: 3-2005 |
Since we're talking about peg legs.... Amputees actually DO replace legs for different perfomance. Compare a running foot with a daily activities foot. But I don't see how a Bart is going to be a sprinter. Seems to me that switching to a Bart would be like switching from a modern prosthesis to an old fashioned peg leg. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2309 Registered: 7-2004 |
Aye, Matey! Aaaaarrrrrggghhhhh! Bill, (the pirate one?) | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 44 Registered: 3-2006 |
Guys,I think its getting too far.! So if nobody ever did replace the ori pup's with Barts,then Ill take my chances. Ive been a session player for 25 and more years.And I KNEW FOR SURE that you have got to have different sounds to handle different tunes/types of music.Ive played Foderas,Kensmiths.Tobiases.They all sounded AWESOME!!but uncomfortable in my hands.SO thats why Im gonna put their elect.on one of my Alembic. Bye guys. Thanks for the inputs and opinions.I appreciate your concern. ANd JAGS,Im NoT NUTS. Good idea Paul! Robert | ||
| 57basstra
Senior Member Username: 57basstra Post Number: 601 Registered: 4-2005 |
Robert, please allow me to formally apologize for my ill-considered comment posted three steps upward. (I sometimes get swept away without fully considering the feelings of others and how my comment(s) may be received.) Please don't leave for good! Nothing said has been with a mean spirit, I'm sure. With all respect, David | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 225 Registered: 1-2004 |
olieoliver - "I would personally never replace my Alembic electronics, BUT it is your Bass Roberto to do with as you wish. This cat be may be able to help. I believe he used to work for Alembic" I wish ;) I have built with both Alembic and Bartolini pups. I like them both. If anyone wants to put Barts in their Alembic please let me know and I'll take the old pups off their hands... | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1011 Registered: 10-2003 |
Karl, Good to see you back in these parts again! I think it's been awhile, hasn't it? John | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 226 Registered: 1-2004 |
Yeah it's been a while John. I do come by and lurk once in a while though. Been busy building instruments and playing hockey in my spare time. But I know where to come when I need some inspiration! - Karl | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1281 Registered: 2-2006 |
Sorry Karl, my mistake. Not sure where I got that idea. I've seen your basses and even bid on a few, very nice looking axes. | ||
| son_of_magni
Advanced Member Username: son_of_magni Post Number: 227 Registered: 1-2004 |
Hey, no problem. If anyone thinks I learned my skills at the best quality bass maker in the world I consider that high praise! - Karl | ||
| keurosix
Intermediate Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 171 Registered: 10-2005 |
Robert, I think you are on to something. It is your instrument, and your job to please the boss who hired you to play bass. Your Persuader should have enough room to add a Bart PU and still play like an Alembic. You should consider a pickup selector switch that would allow you to play the Alembic output alone, the Bart output, and a combination of both. I would venture to guess your boss would like the combo sound best. I have a Modulus Graphite Quantum TBX 5 string (neck-thru) that came with 3 bartolini pick ups and a bart pre-amp - an upgrade from the stock EMG's. when I finally got it, I played it till the strings died, and so did the sound. Barts are subtle. The Alembic circuit will allow you to keep working with dead strings. You can't get the same dynamics from Bart pick ups. I added a custom Alembic circuit with 3 pickups to the Modulus, and to this day I think it's sound is hard to beat. It has to do with blending three pick ups! You might want to consider adding the Bart to the 2 Alembic pickups so you have a total of 3 pickups! A killer axe! You can talk to a knowledgable dealer about the Barts, and he will answer your concerns about fingerboard radius. A different radius might give an uneven response across the strings, but it would probably be very minor. If the Bart has a 14" radius and the Alembic is 12", then the outside strings would be closer to the pick up and would be a bit louder. I think a more important consideration (and easier to satisfy) would be string spacing for the magnet to pick up all the string vibrations. Also, if you plan to combine the outputs, impedence matching of all the components should be considered. Does your Persuader have the PJ style pickups? If so, then a Bart pickup should fit the cavity without modification. You might have to add some resistors to match the outputs. This is where a guitar tech would come in handy. Good luck. Here's a pic of the Modulus:  kRIS | ||
| roberto
Junior Username: roberto Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2006 |
Good idea Kris,but Persuaders come with AXY's and there is not enough room for additional pickup. BTW 3 pickups sounds like a killer bass!! Thanks Robert | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1428 Registered: 6-2002 |
Robert, Persuaders were actually the showcase for the Activator pickups, so they came with one or two P and/or J shaped pickups. If you see a "Persuader" with soapbars (AXYs) it's probably a Spoiler, which has the same body shape. How to tell them apart ... The letter on the serial number: P for a Persuader, S for a Spoiler. The shape of the truss rod cover: half-round for a Persuader, square for a Spoiler. Persuader has volume + volume + filter (Q boost always on). Spoiler has volume + four-way pickup switch + filter + Q switch. Then again, don't be surprised if you find variations on those specs. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 4489 Registered: 6-2000 |
The Persuaders came with any Activator pickup shape, including the AXY. You'll find PJ most common, but there are 2JZ and even 2P Persuaders out there. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1429 Registered: 6-2002 |
I sit corrected. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 475 Registered: 5-2006 |
Jason Newsted (ex Metallica) Persuader JJ:  And from the Showcase section: "Standard" Persuader layout:  Persuader with AXY's and Q-switch, Purple Heart laminates:  Persuader with AXY's and "standard" electronics, Purple Heart laminates:  (Click on the Persuaders for their Showcase thread)  (click on picture for the full version) (Message edited by fc_spoiler on April 27, 2007) | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1430 Registered: 6-2002 |
Here's my Spoiler with electronics that look like Persuader with a Q switch, but are volume + pan + filter + 3-way Q switch. (Message edited by adriaan on April 27, 2007) (Message edited by adriaan on April 27, 2007) | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 483 Registered: 5-2006 |
I just noticed that Jason Newsted's Elan has 3 pickups (J/P/J)  |
