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meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 1
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 7:40 pm:   Edit Post

[URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/DSC_0001-3.jpg][IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/th_DSC_0001-3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/DSC_0004-3.jpg][IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/th_DSC_0004-3.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/DSC_0002-4.jpg][IMG]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s315/dangerdog666/Untitled%20AlbumJuly%2021st/th_DSC_0002-4.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 8:26 pm:   Edit Post

looks like a guitar to me
:-)
u14steelgtr
Member
Username: u14steelgtr

Post Number: 56
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2007 - 8:43 pm:   Edit Post

I suspect that this particular guitar is probably based on the "California Special" model.

But remember that with Alembics the model titles are not explicit because they indicate only what baseline package the customization was based upon.

Regards
-- Eugene
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 902
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post

That looks like a super "Exploited" Strat.
hahaha


Jazzyvee
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1712
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 6:41 am:   Edit Post

Well, probably a three position switch for a pickup selector and the knobs would be one of three configs: vol/filter/filter, vol/vol/filter, or vol/bass/treble. I don't think you can give it a model name that fits, though. An interesting and simple instrument that I would personally love to play.
dannobasso
Senior Member
Username: dannobasso

Post Number: 610
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 7:35 am:   Edit Post

Reminds me of the Vector shape.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5358
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 7:36 am:   Edit Post

Interesting serial number.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5359
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 7:39 am:   Edit Post

Oh ..
Hi Jim, welcome to the club!
flaxattack
Senior Member
Username: flaxattack

Post Number: 1620
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post

maybe its one of the models they let the japanese
make
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 819
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 1:42 pm:   Edit Post

It has USA stamped on the neck so it wasn't made in Japan. I'm curious as to what the RST in the serial stands for.

Keith
88persuader
Advanced Member
Username: 88persuader

Post Number: 316
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 3:26 am:   Edit Post

What ever it is it's NICE!
cozmik_cowboy
Intermediate Member
Username: cozmik_cowboy

Post Number: 177
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:01 am:   Edit Post

Don't forget vol/pan/filter.

Peter
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 3
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:17 am:   Edit Post

I bought it in Japan so maybe it was a special run for the Japanese market? I know Gibson makes TONS of special runs for Japan but I didn't think Alembic really made enuff guitars at all to even get into that.

It is active somehow. PUPS I think.
I am going to sell it so if you folks look in the usuall places you might see it for sale.
Even if you are not interested in buying you can see some nicer pics.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1713
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 6:29 am:   Edit Post

I would almost guarantee it was a US made custom for a Strat player that wanted Alembic tone. I suspect the value is in the Electrum vicinity as an actual playing guitar, but you never know on the aesthetics if it will resonate or not.

Feel free to post a price and maybe you can avoid the hassles and costs of eBay. You'll also want to confirm what the knobs do and describe the condition in more detail. For example, is there any fret wear?

Peter, I doubt you'd have vol/pan/filter along with a three way pickup selector switch.
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 820
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 7:37 am:   Edit Post

I don't know about guitars but Alembic has made special basses for the Japanese market in the past. So it is possible this was made for the Japanese market. It might also be similar to the Jazz Bass style Alembics a dealer in the UK has. In that case the dealer custom ordered them for his local market.


Keith
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:37 am:   Edit Post

Ebay is not really a hassle for me.......... more of a way of life. I am looking for $2800. I am sure there are forum members that will say I'm crazy but I am not really expecting a forum member to buy it. It is immaculate. No fret wear or anything. Basically never been played. I can't find a pick scratch etc. It is mint.
I am sure there are rules against posting auction links so I'll just say it is out there.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1714
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:44 am:   Edit Post

There's actually a section of these boards for posting such links if you poke around a little.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1715
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit Post

Oh, and someone may pay your price but it is probably on the steep side. A very nice Exploiter-body guitar just went around twice with no bids at $2000 located in NY. That body shape usually draws a premium on basses, though maybe less so on guitars.

Good luck...
u14steelgtr
Member
Username: u14steelgtr

Post Number: 57
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post

Perhaps someone with access to the records at Alembic could see what if-anything they have regarding
--> S/N 87RST4588 USA

It is an interesting looking guitar but without knowing what the build data (electronics information specifically) is on the instrument I would be wary of bidding on it on eBay.

Regards
-- Eugene
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1716
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post

If you're interested, throw a post in the serial number requests forum. I'd also wonder about the scale length.
u14steelgtr
Member
Username: u14steelgtr

Post Number: 58
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 11:16 am:   Edit Post

A few more pictures of the details.


230

266

255

214

207

206

205

(Message edited by u14steelgtr on July 27, 2007)

(Message edited by davehouck on July 27, 2007)
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5361
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 4:14 pm:   Edit Post

The pickups do not appear to be mounted in the normal fashion.
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:01 pm:   Edit Post

Thanks for all of the help. I did put up a SN request.
I always start high with unknown value guitars guitars.
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Friday, July 27, 2007 - 9:06 pm:   Edit Post

BTW, I maybe should have said this sooner but the shop called it a FESLG. Not sure where they get their info but there is usually some kind of method to their madness. Maybe FESRG? They are know to switch L and Rs even when part of an anacronym!!!
pace
Advanced Member
Username: pace

Post Number: 334
Registered: 4-2004
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post

Very interesting!!! The "RST" in the serial # is a mystery to me. Unfortunately Mica wont be able to shed any light on history requests for a while. The most logical electronics setup would be vol/filter/filter/3-way....

thanks for sharing it with us, Jim!!!!
all the best,
-Mike
keith_h
Senior Member
Username: keith_h

Post Number: 821
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 1:01 pm:   Edit Post

I've been thinking (Yes I know this can be dangerous). Maybe the RST stands for "Really Sweet Tone".

Keith
jazzyvee
Senior Member
Username: jazzyvee

Post Number: 906
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Saturday, July 28, 2007 - 11:49 pm:   Edit Post

The font on the pickups is not the alembic font so does that give a clue to the age of the pickups at least?

If the first part of the serial number "87" indicates the year does that match with the font Alembic used on their pickups at that time?

Jazzyvee
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5368
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:59 am:   Edit Post

The last four digits place it in '87. I tried comparing the font to some pics in the Showcase from the same period, but my eyes aren't quite awake yet this morning.
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler

Post Number: 591
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 8:15 am:   Edit Post

Here's the font on my '87 Spoiler:

made_a_rose
Junior
Username: made_a_rose

Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 3:08 pm:   Edit Post

This is the second guitar that this seller has offered from Japan. The last one was an Electrum http://alembic.com/club/messages/395/41620.html?1183140056
The seller pulled that guitar before it sold.
I'd pass on this one.
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:00 pm:   Edit Post

Hi made_a_rose

It is not the second guitar, it is more like the 600th guitar I have sold from Japan. Second Alembic.
Is pulling a guitar a sign of being untrustworthy?
Because I have plenty of private buyers and OFTEN pull guitars, usually Gibsons. As I am sure you know Alembics are much more rare.
If I get a decent offer outside of EBay I will pull this one too.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1720
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:24 pm:   Edit Post

This isn't the place to fight this out.

It is generally unethical to sell outside of eBay when eBay generates the lead, but perfectly fine to do so if there is other advertising that does the job. If you do the former and get reported, you can get your account canceled and eBay might even come after you for the fees you evaded.

It is also good form to make note in your auction that you are advertising the item outside of eBay and might pull the auction as a result.
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler

Post Number: 593
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:43 am:   Edit Post

My Elan was also pulled from Ebay, I emailed the seller a good offer (lower than the BIN option), he agreed and pulled the bass from Ebay, everybody happy :-)
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 6:02 am:   Edit Post

Seeing that eBay is always so fair and impartial I think it is very important that we all follow bsee's ethical guidelines!!
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1722
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post

No, Flip, not "everybody happy". When a seller puts something on eBay, they pay a small insertion fee with the promise of paying a percentage of the final sale price when the item sells. When eBay generates the lead that results in a sale, they are entitled to that fee and evading it by pulling the listing is far from ethical.

If you don't like eBay's policies or politics, then use some other means to advertise your items for sale.

Jim, I may be a bit sensitive but your reply comes across as quite sarcastic. Espousing such a belief should certainly make it clear to anyone who might want to do business with you about your level of integrity.
the_8_string_king
Senior Member
Username: the_8_string_king

Post Number: 645
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 6:51 pm:   Edit Post

I just have to say something about this.

I was shafted a few years ago by eBay... and PayPal.

It was a "black and white" case... as cut and dry as they come.

I bought a DVD set advertised as "brand new". It was in fact (obviously) a pirated set of copyrighted material recorded from a home recording set.

The short version of the story is that BOTH eBay and PayPal elected to screw me -DESPITE having copies of the original ads and more than enough information sufficient for any fool to see that I was the wronged party.

My personal experience with eBay & PayPal, as well as that of several other people (some of whom are members of this forum) leads me to conclude that eBay is without honor/integrity/ethics. Among many offenses, they don't follow their own explicitly stated policies.

So as far as I'm concerned, they've declared open season on themselves. I personally won't use them again, for anything, EVER.

But I think anyone who wants to use them for their benefit... to frankly disregard their policies and endeavor to screw them... has every justification.

EBay will NOT hesitate to screw you or me. Period. They won't. And when they do, they WILL NOT follow their own policies. Just try and jump through all their hoops and see what it gets you. I did. Been there, done that.

EBay has little to no integrity, ethics, and honor. Thus, they have NO RATIONAL GROUNDS WHATSOEVER upon which to get indignant over any "little guy" doing to them what they routinely do to others on a regular basis.

The "golden rule" is a great concept -for those who practice it themselves. Conversely, those who "live by the sword" can, do, and should "die by the sword".

Screw EBay. On the day they live up to their own policies (and apololgize and make amends to their many victims) I'll support the notion that they should be treated honorably. Until then, they should be all means be treated with the same contempt and disregard they routinely display towards others.

And that's ALL I have to say on the subject... carefully and rationally thought out -and I stand behind it.

P.S. I DID NOT end up getting screwed. My credit card company backed me up, and I reported BOTH the criminals AND eBay to the FBI.

P.S. II Any time you like, you can do a search, and find that eBay sells pirated copyrighted materials on a daily basis. Do a search for TV series (complete sets) that don't exist yet. Like "Columbo", or Malcolm in the Middle" to name just a few.

They KNOW that they're involved in the ILLEGAL sale of these pirated materials. I informed them, by letter, email, and phone. THEY JUST DON'T CARE. They do what they can get away with. PERIOD. So, on what rational grounds can they -or anyone else- suggest that others shouldn't do it to them? (Rhetorical question)
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 7:29 pm:   Edit Post

Ebay is a tyrant!! They treat everyone like crap because they have about 1/10th of the employees that they need to do a fair and decent job. ALL they care about is money. I can report some new ebayer stealing my pictures (obviously mine as I have been selling for years and the pictures all have the same background) they do NOTHING!!
I have zero problem not paying them their fees every now and then. ZERO. If that makes me unethical then I guess I am unethical. Though I would imagine that 99.6 % of my customers would disagree.

I sell most of my wares on eBay because they are the site most people use I am not going anywhere else for that. They have, in effect, a monopoly on decent prices. Their monopoly needs to be broken.

Many of the great nations of today were formed by people who broke the unfair rules of tyrants!! They did not "use some other means" to find somewhere to live on their own terms. They took what they felt was rightfully theirs and in many cases they are now considered heroes. History is full of examples of people being "unethical" for the greater good. Slavery, American Revolution, French Revolution......................
Sorry, if this analogy seems too much , I guess my point is, true morality is deciding for yourself what is ethical and what is not. Just because a rule is out there does not make you unethical just because you break it.
Besides eBay has more than just "ethics" on their side. They and paypal offer seller and buyer protection and if you do a deal outside of eBay it is obviously not covered by this. Many people realize that their protection is worthless; eBay and Paypal will do ANYTHING in their power to not honor it.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5372
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 7:42 pm:   Edit Post

Before this thread goes any further, I would like to cordially invite all persons reading this post to read, or reread as the case may be, the posting guidelines.

Thanks and enjoy.

(Message edited by davehouck on July 30, 2007)
the_8_string_king
Senior Member
Username: the_8_string_king

Post Number: 647
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 8:25 pm:   Edit Post

On your suggestion, Dave, I re-read the "posting guidelines" for... well, AT LEAST the 3rd or 4th time.

I've taken the liberty of copying them here, below:

Guidelines for posting.

This club has grown over the past few years and represents, in my view, a community. There are a number of folks who have been members since this club was formed and who have been regular contributors. And there have been members who have joined along the way and have been regular contributors too. There are also those folks who have been members for a while but contribute only occasionally. And there are those who come by for a short spell and then are gone.

The one thing we all have in common is our appreciation of Alembic basses and guitars. Beyond that we are a diverse group. Our membership is worldwide; members of the Alembic club are members of a global community. We find ourselves in various economic situations, various states of health, and various mental and emotional states as well. We have differing political views and spiritual practices. We have varying tastes in music; and we play through a wide assortment of rigs and use a wide variety of strings. Our members represent a very wide range of ages.

It has been my observation that the membership of our community has through their posts developed a practice of treating each other with respect and courtesy, which is reflected in the overall feel of the community. Thus there have come to be certain expectations of behavior. New members frequently remark about how helpful our members are and what a friendly place the club is.

It has been stated many times in past threads that our discussion group differs substantially from many other usenet and internet discussion groups, that our friendliness and helpfulness is somewhat unusual compared to other groups. Our members have grown to value this feeling of community and desire to preserve it. To this end I offer the following posting guidelines.

- Treat all members with respect and kindness, and treat yourself with respect and kindness as well.

- AVOID USING LANGUAGE THAT OTHERS MAY FIND OFFENSIVE. Other people will find offensive, remarks that are degrading sexually, that are ethnically or racially oriented, that are patently political, or that may present some particular religious view. Many people find vulgar language to be distasteful.

- Craft your post as if you expect that the mother of someone you hold dear reads all the posts.

- Keep in mind that you do not know where someone else is in life. When you read a message posted by someone, you donít know the context in which the post was written. All of us live lives of suffering. Someone whoís just made a post may also have just had a bad day at work, been involved in a traffic accident, may be dealing with personal or family illness, etc. Treating each other with respect involves being aware that all people suffer and are deserving of our compassion.

- Employ some level of humility. We all love our instruments. We each have our own ideas about what makes a great instrument. But treating each other with respect is to recognize that others have different ideas and that others love their instruments too. Members will have differing preferences for such things as body styles and electronics packages; and no one personís preference is a better preference than anyone elseís.

- Breath. If someone posts something that makes you angry or upset, pause before responding. Remember, you donít know the context; this person may be going through a particularly traumatic time in life; or this person may have been brought up in an environment that was significantly different from yours; or this person may be used to discussions on other boards where there is little regard for the feelings of others. So pause before responding, then try crafting a response that considers context and employs respect.

- Donít beat yourself up. We all make mistakes. If you post something that you later regret, just be present with that feeling of regret and learn from it. Then jump back in and post something else.

- Use the edit button. In the top right hand corner of your post is the edit icon. You can edit a post for up to 72 hours after itís initially posted. You cannot add pictures and links in the edit process. Keep in mind that when you edit a post it does not show up as a new post. The longer you wait to edit a post, the less likely others will notice that it has been edited. Thus editing is more useful when itís fairly immediate.

- There are some general usenet practices that should be followed in any discussion group. For instance, using all caps is considered to be shouting and thus is generally considered to be inappropriate. If you are new to our group, you may want to observe the posts of others and just follow their example.

- There are also some aspects of copyright that should be considered as well. When thinking of copying text or pictures from another site to post on the board, itís probably a good idea to check to see if the site has a copyright message at the bottom of the page. At the very least it may be a good idea to at least reference the other cite with a link.

- It is also a good idea to keep in mind that this discussion board is being provided for our use by our hosts at Alembic, and a link to the board is prominently displayed on Alembicís web site. We are essentially in their home and we should act as if we were invited into the very living room of the Wickersham household.


The grocery store story.

A shopper is in line at the checkout register. This particular shopper is self absorbed at the moment; heís had another bad day at work, he hates his boss, heís in a hurry to get home and this line is moving too slowly. Why canít the checkout person move faster, why didnít that other shopper start filling out the check while the groceries were still being scanned, why donít they open another register. The self absorbed shopper gets to the register and scowls at the checkout person, letting them know how angry he is at how slowly the line has moved. He doesnít know where this person is in life, but has acted in a hurtful way. Chances are his actions will effect the actions of the checkout person negatively. The checkout person may become angry and then may act on this anger when encountering the next person in line.

A shopper is in line at the checkout register. This particular shopper may have had a bad day at work and may have a poor relationship with his boss, and may need to be home at a certain time, but at the moment heís in line at the grocery store. Life is not about him; life is the interaction of all those around him at this moment in time. When he gets to the register he genuinely smiles to the checkout person; the checkout person is a fellow human being, and since all of us suffer, this person is deserving of compassion. Chances are this action will effect the actions of the checkout person positively. The checkout person may feel a little better and may smile when encountering the next person in line.

This is what I refer to as karma. But whatever itís called, it seems to be a tool for living life that works. Its results can be confirmed by observation. When you treat others with respect, kindness and compassion, our community, the world we live in, becomes a better place for all of us.

I took the liberty of putting the phrase "AVOID USING LANGUAGE THAT OTHERS MAY FIND OFFENSIVE" in bold.

To make a point.

Which is: "good luck".

There is NO LANGUAGE that cannot be found arbitrarily "offensive" by a snivelly whiner. I found this out recently myself, on this website, which is why, unfortunately, I don't post much here anymore.

ANYTHING can be found "offensive". Period

And what's so horrible about "offensive"? Are we so insecure that we must live in perpetual fear of the "offensive"? (Rhetorical question)

Personally, I find very little to be more "offensive" than the notion that civilized, rational discourse should be subject to self-censorship to avoid "offending" someone.

Take my word for it. Anyone can (and will) be offended by anything. And if "offense" is the standard of what it will become permissable to civilly discuss... then before long, we WILL NOT discuss ANYTHING of importance.

Because, EVERYTHING that is IMPORTANT to discuss is (at least, potentially, to someone) "offensive".

It's that simple. "Offensive"... and "important"... they're two flip sides of the same coin... and they simply CAN NOT be separated. PERIOD.

Think about it. Or don't.

Take care, gang. Depending on the response, I may or may not post here anymore -for whatever it is (or isn't) worth.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 5375
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:15 pm:   Edit Post

Using Mark's question as a starting point, are we so insecure that we must live in perpetual fear of the "offensive"?, I would like to offer the following thoughts to anyone who finds them of interest.

In my view, treating others with selfless compassion is not "living in fear"; rather I tend to see it as freedom itself. Freedom from being attached to our own desires, aversions and indifferences. Freedom to experience the joy inherent in the present moment without plastering it over with our thoughts and prejudices. Just the pure freedom to love one another each and every precious moment of the exceedingly brief time we get to spend on this wonderful planet.

The past is not the present; it's just memories. The future is only ideas of what might happen. The present is the only time that we get to actually fully experience life on earth. And the only "present" is this very moment that is happening now. So I guess the point is, if there is only this one precious "present" moment, why spend it having an overheated discussion about Ebay?

It is certainly of value to share the experiences we've had on Ebay with each other. And it's also of value to share our conclusions about what we may think are reasonable courses of action to take regarding Ebay. We can offer our experiences and conclusions and the readers can then use this information in making future decisions. We can share information with each other in a civil manner. And we can learn from each other. It seems to me that people are more likely to consider new ideas when they are presented respectfully. It seems to me that when discussions get overheated, that participants tend to get defensive. And it seems to be that someone who is defensive is not as likely to consider new ideas. I tend to think that treating each other with respect increases the flow of ideas and information.

I suppose that's why I jump in from time to time and try to cool down threads that I, or others, think are getting overheated. This is a great group of people and a great place to share knowledge and stories, and to ask questions and learn new things. And as moderator, I try to do things that I think will help continue to make it a great place for all of us.
the_8_string_king
Senior Member
Username: the_8_string_king

Post Number: 648
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:42 pm:   Edit Post

Thanks for your thoughts, Dave.

A few brief responses:

First -please don't take this disrespectfully, as it is NOT intended as such- I must say your second paragraph is, in it's entirety, a "package deal" that appears to implicitly be a response to what you quoted me saying in your first sentence... but it really doesn't appear relevent to what I said.

Specifically, "treating others with 'selfless compassion'" is MOST DEFINETLY NOT "living in fear"; but I neither said nor implied that it does... and that statement and the rest of the paragraph simply have no bearing on what I said.

Some of the notions of the "package" and their sentiments, I agree with. Much of it. But it's a package, and it doesn't address what I said in any way. I'm not saying this to insult you, Dave; I like and respect you. I'm just saying it. And it's no big deal.

The next thing I want to respond to is this quote/question: "if there is only this one precious "present" moment, why spend it having an overheated discussion about Ebay?"

Point 1: I see no basis whatsover for asserting this is an "overheated" discussion. On what grounds is this assertion made? I hold that it is NOT "overheated." But one can certainly argue that "overheated" is in the eye of the beholder.

Point 2. To answer the question posed: howz about, "because one feels it's important."

I sincerely feel what I said was important, and that's why I took the time to share my thoughts with everyone. But it is certainly the case that "how important" my thoughts/statements are to each/every individual reading them can only be determined by each/every individual -for them.

"We can share information with each other in a civil manner. And we can learn from each other. It seems to me that people are more likely to consider new ideas when they are presented respectfully. It seems to me that when discussions get overheated, that participants tend to get defensive. And it seems to be that someone who is defensive is not as likely to consider new ideas. I tend to think that treating each other with respect increases the flow of ideas and information."

Couldn't agree with you more, sir.

"I suppose that's why I jump in from time to time and try to cool down threads that I, or others, think are getting overheated. This is a great group of people and a great place to share knowledge and stories, and to ask questions and learn new things. And as moderator, I try to do things that I think will help continue to make it a great place for all of us."

I appreciate your efforts, sir. I think you do a great job, and on more than one occaission, your well-reasoned, carefully-chosen words have caused me to think, and have offered value to me.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, Dave.

Take care, Mark
the_8_string_king
Senior Member
Username: the_8_string_king

Post Number: 649
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:45 pm:   Edit Post

P.S. I will NOT post any further on this subject.
bsee
Senior Member
Username: bsee

Post Number: 1723
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:21 pm:   Edit Post

Dave, when someone tries to raise awareness about what they perceive as the shady behavior of a seller on eBay, it's normally no big deal. It happens here on a pretty regular basis. In this case, though, the seller in question happened to be a new "member" here. I don't see how such a situation isn't going to result in ruffled feathers. I can't see that it's in anyone's best interest to muzzle such comments completely, so I would have to believe that this is the type of conflict that has to be allowed to occur on occasion. As long as things remain civil there should be no cause for alarm. This relates to the comment Mark made above regarding the posting guidelines. Avoiding "offensive" language at all times is a wise idea, but it is critical when also discussing a sensitive or "important" topic.

I tried to describe a legitimate reason for pulling eBay listings to make sales on occasion to suggest that it was not automatically grounds for suspicion. I have to say that I was surprised by how aggressively people justified their right to abuse/misuse eBay's services. I'm sure there are people who would make similar arguments for shoplifting at whichever national chain store has pissed them off, but would never cheat anybody in a private transaction. I guess there's no universally accepted guide to morality.

I don't trust eBay/PayPal's buyer protection either, Mark, and I use my credit card as a funding source almost universally for purchases as a result. I know my credit card company will back me up and eBay/PayPal may be the one to get screwed if they don't get the funds back from an unscrupulous seller. For those who understand how the system works, this is a perfectly reasonable way to get a little more protection. That said, I think it's a pretty long stretch to advance to stiffing them for commissions as a means of protest. Sounds like nothing more than an attempt to justify squeezing out a couple percent more profit to me.
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 1561
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 3:48 am:   Edit Post

Mark,

You can't deny that this discussion was getting overheated. You've been around here for a good couple of aeons, so you should know what goes where.

The general rules of conduct were not designed to stifle your freedom of expression, but to provide a platform where anyone can feel at ease to participate in pretty much any discussion.

Dave's very polite appeal to the self-regulating capabilities of our members sometimes falls on deaf ears. Well, don't shoot the messenger.
georgie_boy
Advanced Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 274
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 6:03 am:   Edit Post

Well -yet again ,I have to agree with Adriaan and especially Moder Dave
C'mon gentlemen-----------we are all members of a unique club.---------------Let's act like it!!

Well done Dave H for keeping this human!!
You're a star to us all!!!!!!!!!!


G
meestursparkle
New
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 9:50 am:   Edit Post

Wow!! Didn't really mean to stir up a fuss. I just get vocal when someone assumes to know who I am, what I do and what I am about.
NE way........still hoping for some input from Alembic as to the history of the guitar. It is still for sale, and oh, I reserve the right to sell it how ever the heck I want to. But I will guarantee that no individual buyer will be screwed over in the process......... even if it is shipped uninsured and the plane explodes!!!! That is how I do business!!
FIGHT THE POWER!!
hydrargyrum
Advanced Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 275
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post

My question is are you disrespectful to dirt?

mister sparkle
meestursparkle
Junior
Username: meestursparkle

Post Number: 11
Registered: 7-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 31, 2007 - 7:02 pm:   Edit Post

I hate dirt SOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!
emjay
Junior
Username: emjay

Post Number: 46
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post

I opened up this here topic titled "Anybody know what this is?" - and whoa, pass the popcorn.

Ya gottta laugh. We're quite a crew here - philosophers, I would say.

Uh-oh, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Musicians are sooooo sensitive. <smile>
adriaan
Senior Member
Username: adriaan

Post Number: 1567
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 - 2:24 pm:   Edit Post

Make up your mind before posting, please - I can't very well be both a philosopher and a musician. Chances of me qualifying as neither are much higher LOL.
terryc
Advanced Member
Username: terryc

Post Number: 230
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, August 02, 2007 - 7:04 am:   Edit Post

Ooo..a lot of angst in the middle there!!!!
I a nutshell we all get ripped off at some point whether it be ebay or an expensive taxi fare..use it as a lesson learnt and move on and yes we are all philosphers in the great school of Alembic

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