| Author | Message | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 158 Registered: 3-2003 |
My 410xlt(8ohm) blew....so I need to start building a new rig. I dig the eden cab, but have been toying with the idea of going for Bag End cabs. I have the chance to buy the Bag End D10BX-D which is a 2x10(4ohm) cab. Anyone have one of these or played through one? Wondering how it compares to the 410xlt Eden, I would buy other Bag Ends to match (i.e 15" or 18") or a 410...just looking for some info. Thanks-Ed | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 159 Registered: 3-2003 |
I run a F1X through A Eden WT-1205...if it matters... | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 837 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ed - I have owned both. My vote is Bag End. MUCH more musical to my ears. Also, the Bag End can take a bunch of power. I used the D10BX-D with about 1500 watts with no problems. I lost that setup in the Katrina flood, I hope to build that rig again someday. F2B Power Amp (the one I lost was a QSC RMX 1450) Bag End D10BX-D Michael | ||
| alembic_doctor
Advanced Member Username: alembic_doctor Post Number: 351 Registered: 8-2002 |
Well. If you like the "sagging" sound of the eden. you should go with it. They have a very unique sound once they get warmed up. The reason I say this is because they do not vent the voice coils on there drivers. This causes the voice coul to get hotter. The result is that the impedance goes way up and you have to really drive your amp to get the volume you are looking for. And then, sometimes, because you are driving your amp too much, it starts "clipping" on the outputs. Which sends a square wave to your speaker and over time wears it out until it blows. Moral of the story: Whatever you get, make sure you have a big enough amp to drive it. I personally never did like the Eden stuff because of that. But I LOVE Bag End. And then of course you might just want to take into account that I have not played through an amplifier in two years because I go direct through the PA and wear in ear monitors. So basically, I just wasted my time, your time and anyone elses time who is reading this right now. GET BACK TO WORK! unless you live on a different continent. Then you might just want to try some sleep. | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2003 |
Michael, I am looking for clean tone generation. Would you say the Bag End is smoother than the Eden? Thanks for the help. Have any 5-pins left? | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 838 Registered: 6-2002 |
Smoother? Hmm.. Hard to say, because I am not sure what you are hearing in your mind. But as far as clean tone goes, I think the Bag End is quite clean. The coax tweeter is just incredible. The first time folks heard the Bag End set up I had, they compared the tone to a piano. But then again, I was playing my series II!! I find the Bag End cuts through a wall of guitars in a better way than the Eden stuff. Just my opinion though. Once I get a little caught up, I will be saving for the pre/power/Bag End setup. I have 4 cables left and they are all black. Michael | ||
| bkbass
Intermediate Member Username: bkbass Post Number: 160 Registered: 11-2003 |
I own two 210xlt's and one 410xlt. I don't hear any sagging and the pole pieces are vented. They do have a certain coloration to them which is not necessarily unwanted or undesirable. I also own several Bag End products and like them equal to the Eden cabs. Bag End cabs also have a coloration to them. Mine are loaded with Gauss speakers which make them a little sluggesh and bottom heavy yet when compared to the Eminence loaded cabs that sweetness is still very much present. I believe that is because of the tight baffle board spacing (my muse). Bag End uses Eminence speakers like so many other companies, Eden makes their own. Bag End cabs also have no adjustable crossovers so what you clack is there all the time. Bag end cabs have less sensitivity then the Eden cabs but can handle a little more power. It's the old dilema again. Greater sensitivity uses less power vs,,,, Any way, I had attended the AES show in NY a few weeks back and had a chance to renew my friendship with Jim and had the privilege of meeting Mr. Larry Neubauer whose is also a bass player. He promises to get Jim thinking about expanding the line with some new and exciting products. I would speak with him on the latest developments. Jim did tell me that this year he is going to offer self powered 1x15,2x10 and 4x10 cabs. Powered with their minimus plate amplifier. I like both companies but have been using the Bag End products a lot longer. They do sound a little more HIFI. Tell that to the drunk in the rear of the room! So either one is a great choice. The Eden will cost less and be offered by more local stores. Eden is more recognized among the masses and therefore will have a quicker resale whereas Bag end will retain it's value longer. Hope this helps you. Good luck. | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 162 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thanks Dela and Bk..I need to test drive some Bag Ends. Michael-I have a QSC RMX1450, considering selling... I am interested in one of your cables(which I highly suggest to all looking for one) your last cable got sold with my 75'. my stock Alembic just went bad..so send me your price..almost snagged your last one at auction.. Thanks guys -Ed | ||
| hb3
Advanced Member Username: hb3 Post Number: 265 Registered: 2-2005 |
Bag End rocks. Two 4X10s. Yes. Try it. It's a beautiful thing. | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 564 Registered: 11-2004 |
Ed, I have 2 Bag End S15D's. Love 'em to death- I've never owned any Eden's- only played a few in shops- so I can't say I prefer one over the other, but I can tell you that I wouldn't trade the Bag End cabs for anything else I've played through. Toby | ||
| georgesdayout
Junior Username: georgesdayout Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2007 |
I played through 2 2x10 Bag End cabs for years. Finally sold them to my son's guitar teacher when I realized I was plugging directly into the PA more often than not (and switched to a full range cab when I started doing overtime as a 2nd keyboardist). The Bag Ends were great. The nice thing about the 2x10's is the ability to put them where you need them. I was in an instrumental rock band with two very loud guitarists and ended up facing one cab right at the drummer and the other on the floor in front of me as a monitor. For smaller venues, I could either stack the 2x10's or spread them and run some stereo effects. Only issue with the 4 ohm cabs is getting a power amp that can handle 2 ohms if you run them in parallel. But it is relatively simple to split the signal into both sides of a stereo amp and run each speaker on its own channel. Nice to have the choice, though... Good luck! - George | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5592 Registered: 5-2002 |
This stuff can be so subjective. "I am looking for clean tone generation. Would you say the Bag End is smoother than the Eden?" I think the Bag End is "smoother" than the Eden; I don't think of either one as being "clean". I think the Eden cuts through in a band better than the Bag End. Caveat. I purchased my Bag End used, and one of the speakers was always a little iffy; there was only so much low end signal that it could take. Therefore I never took it out on gigs with a band since I couldn't get it loud enough; I always took the Eden. In my living room, the Bag End sounded great, and I much prefered it to the Eden. However, finally the bad speaker blew completely and the Bag End is unplayable; and I haven't gotten around to getting it repaired. So, I've been using the Eden all this time. And I love it. I had the rigged fired up this evening and it sounds wonderful. Caveat 2. I'm using an Elf, so when talking about the Bag End 2x10 and the Eden 2x10, I'm only talking about how they sound in conjuction with my Elf. Having read Michael's statement about pushing 1,500 watts through his Bag End, maybe I should finally get around to getting mine repaired. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1808 Registered: 3-2004 |
I love my Schroeder cabs and wouldn't use anything else right now, but I have previously experienced both Eden and Bag End. I would take a pair of Bag End 1x15 cabs over anything Eden makes if those were my choices. The Bag Ends have a lot of punch and, to me, they sound like what a bass should be. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 883 Registered: 2-2005 |
Need I say anymore. :-) D10BX-d and D10B-D on top and S18C-E on the bottom As for the tweeter Bag End will send you a schematic to add a bypass switch to the crossover. You or your tech could also add an attenuator if desired. Keith  | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 840 Registered: 6-2002 |
The 2x10 plus the 18 seems like the way to go! Can you describe the sound of the 18 when added to the 2X10? I know that the 2X10 is great on it's own. Throw an 18 in the mix and I bet it sounds incredible. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5593 Registered: 5-2002 |
Keith is running an Elf system. That's the controller between the Eden preamp and the QSC power amp. So it's not quite the same as running a regular 18 with a 2x10. For me, the Elf smoothly extends the bottom end as far as needed. Several years ago, I played some coffee shop gigs where I ran the Bag End 2x10 along with an Acme 2x10. The Acme filled out the low end nicely so that together it was a very nice sound from top to bottom. So, even if you weren't running an Elf, I would think pairing the 2x10 with an S18B-D, would give a great overall sound. But I agree that the Bag End 2x10 is a great stand alone box. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1227 Registered: 9-2002 |
Having been around both, I look at it this way: EDEN's heads, cabs and combos are the best for my ears of the purpose-built bass amps, the last ones before you hear the difference and have to go to component rigs (BagEnds, separate preamps, power amps, etc.). I don't underestimate David Norschow's ears, and some the products ( the little 112 combos and cabs, the 212 bin, the little double eight Silver-series practice amp, the WT800's) are exceptional, really leaving off where the old SWR stopped (ironic inasmuch as DN designed lots of the SWR cabs). But they're a step or two behind a full-strength BagEnd rig, not surprising for the difference in $$$$$. J o e y | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 885 Registered: 2-2005 |
Michael, What Dave said. I run the 18's off of the integrator and the 2X10's I currently run full range. I find the 18's round out the tone and add the bass you can feel in addition to hearing. I have found them very useful for playing 5 string or fretless. I also like the limiting in the ELF unit. It works by rolling off the lower frequencies as opposed to just cutting the output. The result is a pretty natural sound when it kicks in. Like Barry when folks ask me how they sound I pretty much say they have a Hi-fi quality. Depending on what or where I'm playing I will use one 18 and one 2X10, two 18's and one 2X10 or all four cabinets. The one channel of the PLX3002 matches perfectly with the power ratings on the 18's (at 8 and 4 ohms total impedance). For the other side I leave the gain at about 50% which seems to work well for the 2X10's (4 and 2 ohms total impedance). Keith | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 700 Registered: 6-2002 |
I've played EDEN for years, many times for several hour sessions REALLY, REALLY loud. Sorry Doc, but I never once experienced the "Sagging" you describe. I'm pretty sure that Dave Nordschow knows a little something about designing Bass amps and speaker cabinets. Until Roland came along with the big check and the free gear, even Alain Caron was a dedicated EDEN user. I definitely trust his ears, as well as the all current EDEN endorsers. Perhaps Bag End is better, but that's still subjective. I've never yet had reason to complain about my EDEN gear - It's never let me down yet. Tight, punchy and articulate sound is something I appreciate through whatever I play. Rami | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 164 Registered: 3-2003 |
Rami, Thanks for the Eden pump-up. Since my 410xlt crapped out I tried my wt-1205 through the 15"xlt and 210 trace elliot, with great results during practice with a group. Makes my want to add to this rig since the 15 has a great presence to it. -Ed | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 701 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think the fact that everything seems to be compared to EDEN (on many other threads as well as this one) says much about their status as a benchmark company. Don't get me wrong, I have ABSOLUTELY no brand loyalty. I have amps and speakers of other makes as well. My EDEN gear is the most pleasing to my ears so far. Great sound and totally reliable - and I've never read or heard a bad review of anything by EDEN. Rami | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 2676 Registered: 7-2004 |
Rami: "ABSOLUTELY no brand loyalty"? And how many Alembics do you have? lol Bill, tgo | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 800 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rami- To your point about Edens not having bad reviews: haven't heard any about Bag End, either. For what it's worth, Eden doesn't do it for me. Bag End definitely does. Bradley | ||
| rami
Senior Member Username: rami Post Number: 702 Registered: 6-2002 |
I only said that my EDEN gear is the most pleasing to my ears so far. I never meant to imply that one is better than another. Perhaps my opinion may change. Which major artist uses Bag End? Hey Bill, I definitely LOVE my Alembics, but like many Bassists, I cut my teeth on Fenders and I still love them. I also play Gibsons, G&L's, Musicman's, Lado's, Carvin's........... ;) Rami | ||
| olieoliver
Senior Member Username: olieoliver Post Number: 1598 Registered: 2-2006 |
I have an Eden Metro 2x10 combo Rami and I love the way it sounds. It's in need of some minor repairs but I've had it for some time (I bought it when they first came out) and have played the heck out of it. That being said, my favorite is still my SWR 750 head thru a SWR 2x10 and a SWr 1x15 cab, both with horns and adjustable crossovers. My SWR is a pre Fender though. I've never played thru Bag End or Epifani though so I can't e;aborate on them. But the Edens I've used arre "SMOKIN' ". Olie | ||
| lowlife
Advanced Member Username: lowlife Post Number: 298 Registered: 12-2003 |
I'm not and Eden endorser, but I've sure got a lot of their gear; single 10 combo, Metro, a pair of 2x10's and a 15 powered by various Eden heads. Never had the chance to try Bag End or Epifani either. But of those brands that I have tried, Eden has a particular "sonic signature" that is the most pleasing to my ears. Don't know about the "sagging" either. I've played some of my Eden combinations for many hours on end (realy loud), and I've never noticed a difference. My Metro has just celebrated it's 10th birthday, and it's still thumpin' away, Ellery (Lowlife) | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1810 Registered: 3-2004 |
I see Eden and SWR (at least in the old days) as peer leaders of large-volume manufacturers of hybrid amps and an assortment of gigging cabs. Their immense volume came as a result of quality construction, pleasing tone, and versatility. It makes sense to use them in comparisons because almost everyone has access to them to compare against. You wouldn't generally use Alembic basses as something to compare others to in spite of their quality simply because there aren't enough of them out there. Instead, people make comparisons to various Fender or Ibanez models. Same thing with Eden. I think you heard a questionable review of Eden a few posts ago with regard to their speaker construction. I can say that I also had a bad experience with them when the coil in a metro combo came free and bounced around inside the head destroying everything. It did that as I was driving it home from the store for the first time, so it went right back and I settled for the SWR Super Redhead. The Eden was a bit rounder in tone, but I couldn't afford to show up at a gig with a dead amp. To me, SWR and Eden are like Fender (guess it was an easy acquisition). They produce good stuff in large volumes that gets the job done. The builds aren't done with as much care as most of the boutique builders would use, but the recipe is such that they should all sound pretty much the same. They're very good, but probably not the best. About the only real advice I can give on this thread is that, if I lived in the LA area, I would have access to try a bunch of cabs. I wouldn't be going purely on the recommendations of this board nor would I be limited to a couple name brands. Jorg Schroeder operates out of that area and there are plenty of shops that will carry a wide variety of high quality gear. Bag End is great stuff, but I wouldn't pick Eden unless I was limited in selection or by budget. -bob | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 165 Registered: 3-2003 |
The last thing I was intending to start was a "brand" war. Eden and Older Trace(pre-gibson) cabinets cut the best for me thus far. Bsee i am interested in Schroeder cabs you are the only witness i have to them, any details? I am searching for different POV's. Being a working musician in LA is busy work, Granted I have many different choices, I would like to have some advice from people I can trust, before I travel taking time to try out several rigs on my way to sonic enlightenment. I wish speaker choice was as easy as bass choice(trusty old Series).....Have I thanked Alembic lately? | ||
| byoung
Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 802 Registered: 12-2004 |
Rami- I wasn't trying to slight Eden, but the sound doesn't work for me. As for artists: http://www.bagend.com/endorser.htm Names like Herbie Hancock, Al DiMeola, Chick Corea, Prince, ... You'll also notice Bradley Young on the list, but it ain't me-- I suspect it's the pianist Bradley Young from Chicago. Also, they do have a few installations: http://www.bagend.com/bagend/installations.htm I know it's been said, but the mothership is Bag End from stem to stern. That would be a fairly ringing endorsement. Again, I'm not trying to disrespect Eden, just say that Bag End does have a good reputation, and they do sound great. My opinion is: all that PA work creates a great hi-fi bass rig. Bradley | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1813 Registered: 3-2004 |
As far as Schroeder goes, they are very efficient, well built, and can handle a ton of power. I have two of them. A 1212R "regular" model with two 12s in it that has a round warm character like an old Ampeg B-15. It's a compact cab that easily fits in the back seat of any car and weighs in +/- 50 lbs. My newer, and current gigging cab, is a 21012L "Light" cab. This one has two 10s facing forward and a 12 mounted at an angle. It's about the size of most companies' 2x12 cabs and, with the neo magnets, still weighs in just over 50 lbs. The neo speakers are a little more versatile, imposing less natural character on your sound. Either cab is plenty of sound for the bar gigs I play. I would recommend the 1212R for a blues/rock gig, and the 21012L for just about anything. Also, Jorg is passionate about these cabs and will support you very well if you chose to go that way. | ||
| dnburgess
Senior Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 528 Registered: 1-2003 |
Edward - regarding Schroeder... Very efficient and great powerhandling. They don't set out to be hifi (like say Acme or Accugroove). I would tend to recommend them in rock settings or loud environments where their particular sonic signature gives them great cut through. But not the first choice where accuracy is the primary consideration. | ||
| oggydoggy
Intermediate Member Username: oggydoggy Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2003 |
Seen some Acme stuff for sale too...Thoughts/players? | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 5612 Registered: 5-2002 |
Acme is significantly different. The Acme 2x10 has a really nice low end for a cabinet of its weight and size. I think the low end is nicer than the Eden and Bag End. But the high end is where the big difference is (to my ears). David Burgess above referred to the Acme as "hifi", and people tend to refer to the Acme as being "clean" and "uncolored". The Acme has no high end "sizzle", where the Eden has lots of "sizzle". That, to me, is why the Eden can cut through in a band situation. People that love Acme's, say that they like 'em because it's a "truer", or again as David said, "accurate" representation of the signal coming in. | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2005 |
Just my little 2 cents, but the "Sizzle" hi end - or lack of it - is just exactly what made me decide on the AccuGroove El Whappo cabinet over others. The tweeters are soft dome ferro fluid, and soud very natural, even when slapping very aggressively. Never harsh or biting, but yes they can cut through. Kris | ||
| worldfamousandy
Intermediate Member Username: worldfamousandy Post Number: 114 Registered: 3-2004 |
I gotta use this opportunity to say something good about the Schroeder. My neo 410 is very versatile. I fact, I use the same rig for upright as I do electric. Fantastic stuff. Andy Calder www.andycalderbass.com | ||
| benson_murrensun
Junior Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 13 Registered: 5-2007 |
I love those Acme Low B-2's. I am not a pro player, more like an intermediate level, but I am a gear head and have had a bunch of different cabinets over the years. I still have an SWR Son of Bertha, an SWR Bass Monitor 12, and a Workingman's 1 X 10. I have had an Ampeg SVT 15 and an SWR 4 X 8 (Li'l Henry??? - can't remember the cutesy name) among others. I think the Acmes sound better than any of those. Plus, they are fairly lightweight; and the guy who makes them, Andy Lewis, is accessible and accommodating. For instance, you can order them in 4- or 8-ohm configurations, or without midranges and tweeters if you just want to use them as a subwoofer. For a small box, these things can really make your bell-bottoms flap. | ||
| dtrice
Intermediate Member Username: dtrice Post Number: 134 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'm really jealous of your rig keith. It looks like your running the eden (I'm guessing a WT?) and a QSC. I thought that the WT provided its own power so why is the QSC neccessary? I'm just curious, because I'm thinking about changing my rig in the future. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1817 Registered: 3-2004 |
That's a Navigator preamp, Daniel, not the WT series head. While most companies stuff their pres into a single space, Eden kept the full two space face to support all of their knobs and buttons. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 887 Registered: 2-2005 |
Daniel, Thanks for the compliment no reason to be jealous though. Yes it is an Eden you see in the rack however it is not a full amp. It is a WP-100 Navigator preamp. While I like the tone it can produce it is a lot of knobs to set. I have been toying with the idea going to an F1X. Before I decide I want to A/B the two on speakers similar to mine but I'm in no rush. Keith | ||
| dtrice
Intermediate Member Username: dtrice Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2006 |
I see. That explains it. I'm really thinking hard about going F2-B-->QSC-->Bag End, myself. Plus a few other extra toys in there. | ||
| jacko
Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1440 Registered: 10-2002 |
keith i had an F1X for a while at the same time as the Navigator. I found I could get all the same tones on the Nav as on the F1X and the options on the Nav were so much more comprehensive.I never use the enhance but it's nice to have onboard compression and the back panel options are second to none. One thing i couldn't do without is the Mute as I switch basses several times through the set. The only way to do this on the f1x (at Mica's suggestion) was to run the effects loop through my tuner and use a latching footswitch to disable the tuner output. In the end it was getting to be too much faff so I decided to stick with the navigator. In a simpler setup, i'd probably go with Ampeg's SVP as it gives a really nice agressive tone. Graeme | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2217 Registered: 9-2003 |
Eden is for the budget conscious? At just under a grand for a D210XST 2x10 cab, I wouldn't exactly call that a budget item. While I use 'em (two 4ohm Eden D210XST's), I'm sure there's "better" out there. What that "better" infers is up to the ears of the beholder. How much more that "better" costs, and whether it's worth the difference, is likewise. | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1819 Registered: 3-2004 |
Kevin- "Better" isn't entirely about tone. It's also about construction, durability, weight, portability, etc. Some of that is subjective, and some objective. For a guy that plays bar gigs a couple nights a week and has odd entry/exit situations, a compact cab loaded with neo speakers is "better" than an SVT-sized hi-fi full-range cab even if the tone doesn't quite match up. | ||
| smuprof
Member Username: smuprof Post Number: 92 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've got to jump in here. I've posted before on my search for a killer 5 string rig that small and portable, and after a bunch of trying and testing and spec research, I landed on Eden's 210XST (different from XLT) - much better low end frequency response - and an Eden 300 hybrid head. I too play regularly through a PA with ear monitors, but our praise band has been playing some gigs out lately, (and ocassionally we find a venue to play a little rock and roll), including outdoors and some large auditoriums. With two guitars, two keyboardists, four vocalists and a drummer and often a percussionist, I've never had the rig past halfway up (using my MK5). Each time at least one band member has suggested its really "loud" (ie prominent) in the sound out front and I should trim it back. At the most recent classic rock gig outdoors, a friend and long-time bassist (played with Mel Torme, Frankie Avalon) listening in the audience was blown away by the sound of that little rig and couldn't stop commenting on the clarity, bottom, and fidelity. One of our Dallas club members has Bag End, and I really seriously considered those, (and they are great), but they didn't meet my requirement for a single small cabinet and head (My Eden is 8 ohms, so I can easily add, if I ever needed it, a 15 or 18). But with the low end response from the Eden XST line, I haven't needed it yet. If I do, it would be more for volume than frequency response. Really liked the Bag End's, but for my requirements for high performance, easy portability, the Eden amp and 210XST cabinet has been one of the most satisfying buys I've ever made. PS - This thread is a classic example of what a tremendous community Alembic users are - no knocks, everyone can share an opinion and is open to others' ideas, lots of terrific information. You guys are great. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 890 Registered: 2-2005 |
Graeme, Thanks for your thoughts. I really would miss the mute. I do use the enhance a fair amount as I prefer a scooped mid-range. This is why I really want to A/B them before I decide whether to buy an F1X. Keith | ||
| kmh364
Senior Member Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2218 Registered: 9-2003 |
Understood. That was exactly my point. I bought what I thought was the best sound in a PORTABLE package to compliment my Alembic(s). Is there better a 2x10? Probably, but the criteria that defines "better" will dictate the end choice made by the user, just like it did for me. | ||
| adriaan
Senior Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 1671 Registered: 6-2002 |
Keith, The mid control on the F1-X only lets you cut the mids, so you should be able to get a scooped sound from it. If you add to that the naturally scooped sound of a neck-through, I wonder what extremes you're going for. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 891 Registered: 2-2005 |
Adriaan, I don't think I'm going to extremes. The sound I prefer is what most folks call the slapper tone and the midrangey bridge pickup fretless sound. I can get what I want out of the Navigator but it does take time due to it's semi-parametric equalizer. If I wish to make changes while playing it is much easier to screw up the tone than quickly dial in what I want. The Enhance helps with this since it cuts the mids and boosts the lows and highs plus it is switchable. The drawback is it is a preset so the equalizer needs to be tweaked depending upon the venue. Which take us back to it is easier to screw up the tone than find it. I'm not a tweaker and pretty much like to find the one to few settings that I can quickly dial in. Can you tell an SF-2 is not in my future? :-) Since the Navigator is serviceable I am in no rush to replace it. I want to make sure the F1-X will work for me before I purchase one (I won't use e-bay). Since there are some club members in NC with the F1-X I figure I would impose on them to try it out when I am ready to purchase. Keith | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 1820 Registered: 3-2004 |
Keith, that's a reason why I really like my Fender TBP-1 and wish that Alembic would update the F-1X. The Fender has a variation on the enhance knob that seems to be a sliding filter for adjustment to the room. It also has a nifty notch filter that will let you cut or boost a selected mid frequency by a variable amount. The width of the cut/boost is preset, so it doesn't quite approach an SF-2 in band pass mode, but I find it to be helpful enough and a set-once kind of thing that I don't tweak for the room. The flat tone isn't quite as present as the F-1X and I'm sure Alembic could do it better, but it does what I need for live work. Even though the Alembic sounds better flat, the Fender gets the nod in my rig for better control features in a live setting. In any case, if you're looking for a tone with midrange as the prominent band, the F-1X isn't really the most flexible choice. The "flat" setting is somewhere between two and three on the bass and treble knobs with the mids pegged at ten. You can't add mids, you can only take away bass and/or treble. Since the thing puts out virtually no sound at all with the three EQ knobs zeroed, you'll have a very touchy little bit of knob travel to find what you're looking for. Try it, though, the tone is very pure and may be exactly what you're looking for. -bob |
