| Author | Message | ||
| skydigger
Junior Username: skydigger Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007 |
From the August 1989 Guitar Player "Although [John] was happy with the bright, clear tone of the Alembics, and assortment of inconveniences ultimately forced him to move away from the instruments after more than a decade. “Unfortunately, the basses were very sensitive to the climate changes on our tour schedules, and I’d spend as long as a half-hour before every gig making adjustments. Also, I grew tired of the bloody 5-pin Cannon jack and transformer box I had to use with them. What finally put me off was when we did Live Aid. Right before we were to play, my main bass went dead because I’d accidentally crossed some wires while changing the battery. I ran for the backup bass but couldn’t tune it because there were no transformers backstage. At that point we were introduced, and I barely managed to get back onstage in time to start ‘My Generation.’ If you listen closely to the video, you can hear me tuning the D string as we go. I just about got it in tune in time for the bass solo. I sold the main bass to the Hard Rock Cafe — that was its punishment.” Why would an Alembic be any more sensitive to the climate than any other bass? | ||
| pierreyves
Advanced Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 223 Registered: 11-2006 |
no comment ... I would can agree that Alembic are "high sensibility instrument"... | ||
| 5stringho
Intermediate Member Username: 5stringho Post Number: 172 Registered: 11-2006 |
Huh. I've had my Excel for almost 3 years now, played her in numerous venues is all kinds of weather and atmospheric conditions, and I've never had the truss Rod cover off. Guess it may vary from instrument to instrument, but no more than any other brand. BCoool, Mike, Tho | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1299 Registered: 12-2002 |
Nothing's perfect........ | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2007 |
Yeah, I read that article about JE some time ago. I can only guess that when you are dealing with a living material like wood this is the sort of thing that can happen. I had a Jaydee bass back in the day and the neck had a life all of its own..eventually ended up bent like a banana! What a pain it was. I also have a Fender Jazz bass that has a neck that moves a bit from time to time..you just have to stay on top of it adjustment wise! I think in JE's case this is an extreme example. Personally I think its a lot down to luck, no two pieces of wood behave the same after all! In my opinion the best tone JE ever had was his Alembics. He was a great bassist and a good man, but what a luxury it must have been to be able to simply sell off one of your custom built Alembic axes simply to spite it!! | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1235 Registered: 10-2003 |
Keep in mind that JE played with incredibly low action. I had an opportunity to chat briefly with him back in the 90's and he told me that he quit using alembics because he wanted to move to graphite necks for their stability... John | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 586 Registered: 11-2003 |
When I was out at the Mothership to discuss my custom with Susan and Mica, Susan told me that John used an action that was unusable to just about everyone except himself. She told me a story about how they had made an instrument for him, and were going to deliver it to him at a venue not far from the factory. The action was insanely low (and also, his fingerboards on his Alembics were completely flat, no radius), and no one could play it without it buzzing all over the place. Susan told the tech who'd be going with her to deliver it to bring his toolbox just in case. They got there, took the bass out of the case, handed it John, and he started doing "Won't Get Fooled Again." Susan asked if any adjustments were necessary, and he said no, it was fine. My view is that if one likes action that low, one will have to put up with changes in the weather, humidity, etc. in order to achieve it with a wooden instrument. My guess is action that low is very unforgiving of any number of changes, and I imagine John just felt the effort wasn't worth it. Most of us don't use an action that low, so it isn't as much of an issue for us as it was for John. I'd love to know what kind of action he used on Fenders, Gibsons, etc. Those instruments, IME, are much more difficult to dial in to low action than Alembics, but that's just me. Alan | ||
| borisspyder
Junior Username: borisspyder Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2004 |
The Alembic Distillate I owned in the early 90's was a disaster...I finally sold it in disgust after about 5 months..for $350. That being said, I've played JE's 76 Series I and after sitting in a case at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame for a decade the action was still insanely low and although the strings were beat it played well. So I imagine it varies from instrument to instrument... I do use graphite-necked Status basses, no truss rod, low action, no problems. JE throughout his career was always saying things like "I like my strings on the other side of the frets",etc. and all of the various basses of his I've played have had really low action though I assume that the action got lower as the instruments got more sophisticated. He set up his instruments himself so I imagine a moving neck would have been very frustrating to him. | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2007 |
You sold a Distillate for $350 in the 90's?? Wish you had called me  | ||
| borisspyder
Junior Username: borisspyder Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2004 |
i'm getting old...maybe mid to late 80's? Rest assured be glad you missed it, you would have had to be setting up the neck every 4 to 5 hours. Also, a BTW to Alan, the buzzard necks are not completely flat, they have a 16" radius, it's not much, but he obviously chose to move away from no radius at all as time went on. | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 365 Registered: 11-2004 |
I guess that is how JE got that rattly tone on his solos. Low action is good to prevent repetitive strain injury but if it is that low the neck is going to bow under the truss rod tension. I think if you are going to have it that low then polymer graphite necks are the only option as they are going to stay rigid no matter what tension is put on them. borisspyder - A distillate for $350, that about £275 sterling..you must have had a momentary lapse of reason..even the most cheapest basses are playable if they are set up correctly, I cannot believe Alembic would make such a bad bass..in what way was it a disaster?? Was the neck bent?, did the electronics not work?, I mean how much can go wrong with them..they are built very well and have every adjustment parameter you could ever wish for!! Did you sek advice from Alembic themselves?? | ||
| keavin
Senior Member Username: keavin Post Number: 1300 Registered: 12-2002 |
Sometimes people just want the quick money...I've seen a Coco-bolo Long scale SeriesI in a pawn shop back in the 80's for $450.00 i ran home to get a down payment & as i walked back in the pawn shop this guy was walking out with it! | ||
| dela217
Senior Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 850 Registered: 6-2002 |
Keavin - Those days are gone! My 1972 Alembic came from a pawn shop too. $350.00 Michael | ||
| borisspyder
Junior Username: borisspyder Post Number: 28 Registered: 10-2004 |
Neck wouldn't stay straight for even a few hours. This was pre-internet days, and for some reason even though I called Alembic several times for assistance they never got back to me with any help. I don't really know why, the customer service seems pretty good now. Anyway, I was pretty disappointed and just basically gave it back to the shop on 47th Street that sold it to me. I didn't care so much about the money, I bought it because Entwistle played an Alembic and you can't imagine how badly I felt that the instrument was unplayable. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1237 Registered: 10-2003 |
The earliest Spoilers were really kind of sucky instruments, in my opinion, compared to the later iterations. I played a few of them back when they had decals instead of silver logos on the headstock, and didn't like them at all. The first one I played was also the first solid-color finish I'd seen on an Alembic. It was black. John | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 368 Registered: 11-2004 |
Guess when something like that happens it can put you off a company for good. | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2007 |
I received my 87 Persuader a short time ago, bought it sight unseen because Alembic persuaders are thin on the ground here in the UK. I went for it purely on assurance of its good condition from the seller (the guy who handbuilds the excellent SEI basses!) It is almost perfect..but the action is really, really low. The lowest action that I have ever had on a bass..even lower than I had on my Graphite Vigier!! Dont get me wrong, there are no buzzes and it plays and sounds absolutely KILLER..but I am nervously waiting for something to happen with the neck. Maybe Im just a pessimist, it seems to be solid and stable. The bottom line for me is that I just dont mess around with set-ups on my basses, perhaps its time I bought a book on the subject or something! | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 700 Registered: 7-2003 |
Guys, I really wonder how often this theme turns up. It is clear that if you run such a low action like John did (and me too - I have 0,8mms at the 24th fret top fret/underside string) it is naturally that you have more problems with a slighlty moving neck than if you are running a "normal" bass players action. Johns low action was a very important part for producing the tone he had. For example the speed triplets are not possible with a normal action, the lower the better. Also his typewriting is not that easy manageable on a normal setup. The biggest problem for most bassists that tried my basses is that they had a normal touch on the strings but with such a low action you need to generate a very light touch and, of course, you need to bring the strings into a vertical movement, not a horizontal. Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 893 Registered: 11-2004 |
Oliver, I'm wondering about the "typewriting" you referred to. Was it just a figure of speech or is it a certain technique that John used that I've never heard of? If it's a technique he used, what is a song that shows a good example of it? Rich | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 369 Registered: 11-2004 |
Typewriting..he tapped the all the strings with all fingers and fretted the notes..not like the tapping technique used on chapman sticks or warr guitars. | ||
| eligilam
Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 81 Registered: 2-2006 |
A snippet from the bassplayer.com site: As a result, fans finally felt the full force of his techniques: standard fingerstyle and pick playing, a technique he calls "crab-claws," backhanded chords, string pops and smacks, harmonics, and left-hand hammer-ons. Then there's his impressive "typewriter technique," a forerunner of today's bass tapping, in which he strikes the strings at the base of the neck with his four right-hand fingertips in quick, typewriter-like motions, enabling him to play rapid triplets and various other drum-like devices. A snippet from a BBC website: Songs like "Ten Little Friends" have Entwistle masterclassing in the "typewriter" bass technique he created years before funk-pioneer Larry Graham started slapping. And there's a whole tutorial on it from the man himself on his old "Hot Licks" video from the late '80's...man, he was really smarmy in that one. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 669 Registered: 5-2006 |
"typewriter" bass technique (I guess) Btw: My '83 Spoiler is one of the best sounding and playing instruments I laid my hands on, would never call it sucky... ;-) | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 364 Registered: 4-2005 |
Whenever I see that video, the only thing that comes to mind is fret buzz. | ||
| longhorncat
Advanced Member Username: longhorncat Post Number: 238 Registered: 8-2005 |
John Entwistle Bass Guitar Master Class | ||
| lidon2001
Advanced Member Username: lidon2001 Post Number: 365 Registered: 4-2005 |
I much prefer the JE tone here. | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 375 Registered: 11-2004 |
F**k me, that is the first time I have seen that..jeeze..that was excellent, the tone was, well, unique. I think the fret buzz is all part of that gritty, overdriven tone..absolutely the biz, just goes to show, you don't have to slap at a 100mph to get a good solo | ||
| senmen
Senior Member Username: senmen Post Number: 701 Registered: 7-2003 |
Rich,Guys, typewriting is existing. John used it pretty much as well as me in our WHO Tribute. Most important of this is a low action and bringing the strings into a vertical direction. It is like typewriting, you hit the strings just like a typewriter vertically. This ads a whole bunch of steely twang to the tone as it produces really much harmonics. You can hear it very good at the opening riff of Johns solo at the Royal albert Hall gig where he does an alternating walk on G, F and open E. this is done using typewriting. Oliver (Spyderman) | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 379 Registered: 11-2004 |
I am going to plug my MK signature into my Zoom unit and stick the headphones on(it is 10.10pm here in the UK) and have a go at that..a bit of distortion with loads of top I think. As far as the actual theory of the notes..it is not that difficult, what is difficult is getting that technique and tone..I must have go though Sod the thumb stuff, this will shock the band ha ha | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2007 |
He, He, I remember buying the "hotlicks" JE instructional video about a zillion years ago and learning all of the typewriter licks that he displayed! He had really powerful fingers and gave his Alembic a tremendous workout in the video! What a sound! I also remember sitting glued to the tv watching him stroll onto the LIVE AID stage and simply hit a couple of open strings...man, I was GONE! The tone was all I ever hoped to hear from a bass. I cant believe he got rid of that bass to spite it  | ||
| terryc
Advanced Member Username: terryc Post Number: 380 Registered: 11-2004 |
Okay..just had a go..managed to get a near enough sound but no where near in a million years like that solo..give me a few weeks or years!!!!!!!!!!! whitecloud..so you got the video..can you do it???? | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 894 Registered: 11-2004 |
Thanks everyone. That was just exactly the explanation/example I was hoping to get. I haven't been exposed to that side of JE before. It is a lot like an octave harmonic tap thing that I do for effect sometimes. For instance, fret the A string at the 3rd fret, tap at the 15th fret and you get the low C, the octave C harmonic, as well as a percussive, slap kind of tone. Rich | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2007 |
Thats exactly correct Rich, you got it! On the old "hotlicks" JE instructional that is exactly what JE demonstrates!! Very cool effect, perfect for rock music! Terry, the tape I had has long vanished into the mists of time, but yes, during that era I was able to pull it off reasonably well! I was actually more proficiant at playing that way than I was at "slapping" at that time. I admired slap players like MK but wasnt really into Level 42 or that kind of music. I preferred the Jeff berlin school of melodic bass playing (Alan holdsworth, Bruford etc) Im much better at Slapping now, however The typewriter style that JE used was every bit as punchy as a slap player and really cut through the overall band sound! | ||
| richbass939
Senior Member Username: richbass939 Post Number: 895 Registered: 11-2004 |
John, I agree about the punchy tone that typing gives. And it's a very fast technique. The way I do it (maybe I just need to learn the correct way) my hand isn't in a position to pop along with it very easily. But for just the slap part, it has just as much slap punch as the thumb slap method. Rich | ||
| white_cloud
Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2007 |
Absolutely Rich! This technique is perfect for Alembic basses because of the incredible treble high tones that can be achieved..fit a fresh set of strings, typewrite away, and BAM! Pure John Entwhistle! | ||
| briant
Junior Username: briant Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2004 |
I find that I can get that same super-aggressive tone on my Alembic with just normal playing as long as my EQ is setup properly and I'm overdriving the input tubes on my amp. Snarly good times. :-) |
