| Author | Message | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2008 |
Was looking for advice as to adjusting my rig set up without purchasing new componets. Currently using an SVT 4 Pro through Ampeg HLF cabinet 4 10's and either another Ampeg HE or will use an SWR 4 10. Purchased an Exploiter and looking to get more of a Hi Fi sound without buying a new rig, preamp and power amp. Ampeg has that particular growl, would adding an F-1x preamp work and give me more sound variations? | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1063 Registered: 2-2005 |
I use an Eden Navigator/QSC amp with Bag End cabinets. It is very clean sounding and Hi-Fi in my opinion. Keith | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3182 Registered: 7-2004 |
John: For tone shaping there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING like an SF-2. Bill, the guitar one | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2008 |
Has anyone had experience using SF1 or 2 with an SVT as the power amp and by passing the SVT preamp? | ||
| hieronymous
Advanced Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2005 |
+1 on the SF-2, though I don't have any experience using it with anything Ampeg. What electronics does your Exploiter have? Assuming it has a Q-switch, have you tried it with the Q-switch engaged and the filter frequency as high as it will go? You will probably be able to tell if your amp & speakers are even capable of reproducing those frequencies! | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2008 |
The Q Switch works fine, just that the Ampeg has the typical growl. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3183 Registered: 7-2004 |
While the the SF-2 can be used as a pre-amp, it doesn't have to be and, it seems as if most people don't. I use mine in the effects loop of my Boogie. My bass player just puts his in front of a Traynor head. Both ways work very well. By the way, ther is no such thing as an "SF-1". Alembic makes two pre-amps, the F-1X (mono), and the the F-2B (stereo). The SF-2 Superfilter is a different animal altogether. Bill, tgo | ||
| hieronymous
Advanced Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2005 |
"The Q Switch works fine, just that the Ampeg has the typical growl." Got it - so you're looking for a clean, powerful sound. Kenbass4 has an Ampeg (SVT I think), but not sure if he has an SF-2. I would think that a big part of the Ampeg sound is the power-amp tubes, so even with a clean preamp, it might still get that Ampeg drive... Hey, I just noticed you're in Braintree! I used to live in Bedford, and was just visiting out there - stayed with a friend in Marlborough. I miss Massachusetts... | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2008 |
Sorry I was refering to the F-1x, which would give the more flexible sound? I thought most of the Ampeg sound would come from its pre amp . | ||
| ivartshiva
Junior Username: ivartshiva Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2007 |
My two cents: I'm running my Essences through all Ampeg amps and cabinets - I've been using an SVT-3PRO through an SVT-410HLF cabinet with very satisfying results, but after reading on this board about getting some high end, and of course a desire to push more air, I just got an SVT-410HE, which runs at 8 ohms so I got an Ampeg 350W BR head to run the 410HE. For some reason the Preamp out on the 3PRO doesn't send any signal (I wish I knew why) so I'm getting the signal from the 3PRO to the BR from the main output, with the level set at about 5. So I have a sort of ghetto bi-amped setup with the 410HE set to produce the mids and highs and the 410HLF set to give maximum low end. It's great, like night and day from just the 410HLF. I can play chords and they're clear. I can get as much sharp high end as I want and still have incredible earthquake below. If I could afford an F-1X or even a crossover I'd probably do better, but this seems to working. Good Luck! Michael | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 18 Registered: 5-2008 |
With the SVT 4 I can bypass the the preamp and go direct to the power amp. The SVT 4 does not have tubes on the power amp onlyin the preamp. hieronymous where are you living now? | ||
| hieronymous
Advanced Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 348 Registered: 1-2005 |
I live in California now, between Sacramento and Stockton. I left Mass. in 1996 to go to grad school in Berkeley, CA, spent a few years in Japan too. Oh, and I'll be sending you an email soon - look for one from hieronymous_three | ||
| glocke
Advanced Member Username: glocke Post Number: 398 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think most amps like ampeg, mesa, etc.will add alot of color to the sound that isn't needed or wanted for bass if you want a really clean hi-fi sound. I have three amp setups in my possesion, and use bag end 15" cabs. A mesa walkabout, a demeter preamp with a qsc power amp, and an ampeg b25. By far the most hi-fi and cleanest sonding is the ampeg followed by the Demeter. The mesa adds sometimg to my sound I really don't like. If you want a true hifi sound, you should look into getting an Alembic preamp or the Demeter preamp. An sf2 will also improve your sound greatly and may be the least expensive route. (Message edited by glocke on July 26, 2008) | ||
| keurosix
Advanced Member Username: keurosix Post Number: 347 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hey John, A lot has been posted about rigs and getting the best sound for your bass here in the club. IMHO it would be difficult to improve your sound to "Hi-Fi" without comparing your rig to other rigs on the market to educate your ear as to what you call "Hi-Fi". I firmly believe that the single most important part of your sound is the speaker cabinets, and upgrading them to Hi Fi quality will drastically improve the contribution of all other parts of the sound system. check out this post and also do a search for others in the club to see what types of systems are being used: http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/53842.html?1216580936 My advice would be to try your Exploiter thru various rigs, and bring along the Ampeg to try it through various cabinets too. I know the "Growl" you speak of, and I believe my SWR SM900 provides it too. I also agree with Bill in that the SF-2 is THE ultimate sound shaping tool. If you have a high end dealer near you that carries boutique gear, go in and try out cabinets with your bass. I recommend the "El Whappo" by AccuGroove very highly. It is a 4 way studio quality cabinet that handles 800 watts and brings out the best of any guitar or preamp's tonal features. It is only one box to move but sounds like a whole wall of cabinets. I replaced an SWR Goliath 4x10 and SWR Big Ben 1x18 with mine. It really sounds a whole lot better. It ain't cheap, so you might want to try other cabs too, like Bergantino, Acme, Schroeder, Glockenklang, and others club members swear by. You will probably find a perfect fit with your Exploiter and Ampeg SVT to get the sound you are looking for. Wouldn't it be cool if it's already the rig you own? Happy hunting! Kris | ||
| rockbassist
Intermediate Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 144 Registered: 8-2005 |
In my opinion, you will never get the sound you are looking for with Ampeg. I used to have a deal with them and tried every amp and cabinet combination they offered. I could never get the sound I wanted and gave up the deal. I tried SWR and HATED the tone. I have had very good luck with Gallien Krueger. It's tvery close to what I am looking for in terms of tone. I will admit though that whenever I hear "That Sound" it's always a bass being played through an Eden or EBS rig. I am considering buying an Eden rig but while reading the posts on their forum it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with the reliability. My GK has been a workhorse so even though I am not getting the exact sound I want (it's close) I might be better off hanging on to it. | ||
| rockbassist
Intermediate Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2005 |
In my opinion, you will never get the sound you are looking for with Ampeg. I used to have a deal with them and tried every amp and cabinet combination they offered. I could never get the sound I wanted and gave up the deal. I tried SWR and HATED the tone. I have had very good luck with Gallien Krueger. It's very close to what I am looking for in terms of tone. I will admit though that whenever I hear "That Sound" it's always a bass being played through an Eden or EBS rig. I am considering buying an Eden rig but while reading the posts on their forum it seems that a lot of people are unhappy with the reliability. My GK has been a workhorse so even though I am not getting the exact sound I want (it's close) I might be better off hanging on to it. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 811 Registered: 3-2004 |
Please keep in mind this simple reality. Your rig, unless it is in a small venue is your personal monitor. Your perfect tone, your expensive rig, your perceptions etc., all go out the window when the sound gets under the control of the guy running the big PA. I have some good gear. Alembic basses, Alembic preamps, QSC power amps, Epifani T310 UL 212, Acme Low B4, and Accugroove El Whappo Jr. cabinets. Most guys just want the bass direct into a di, then you go into your rig which takes it out of the Oh My God! tone world. It took me years to realize that. That being said, an SF2 will give you the ability to shape your tone to fit most any situation you may come across. I'm not fond of Eden but thats me. Like others have posted, try out as many combinations as possible, then decide on what you love and can swing cash wise. | ||
| jet_powers
Advanced Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 367 Registered: 2-2003 |
I've been running my '83 Exploiter through an Ampeg SVT3 for the past two or three years. I oft times wish I had dropped the cake for the 4, but sometimes you have to work with the budget you have at the time of purchase, in my case, an emergency replacement. At first I ran it through my old reliable boat anchor, a 612 Peavey cab built in the early 70's as what I presume was their answer to the Ampeg 810. It's been reloaded a couple of times and is still the best sounding cab I have but it's a literal and figurative pain to move about. However, I liked the sound and feel of the SVT3 enough to get an Ampeg 410 cab to go with it. Much easier to move around and in small rooms we were playing it was plenty. As I was not quite satisfied with the overall sound, I added the Ampeg 115 to make an entire Ampeg rig, first one I've had, and so far I am quite pleased with the rig. All need to do now is find more time to spend really learning to play the rig and to find its acceptable extremes. So far I've found it pretty versatile. If now only I had an SF-2... Bottom line is what sounds good to your own ears is ulimately what matters.... -JP | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2008 |
Looks like experimentation time. Hoping to check out a F1-X or try to find a SF-2 | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 6844 Registered: 5-2002 |
Using an F-1X and bypassing the preamp on your Ampeg will work. It should definitely give you a different sound; and though I don't have an Ampeg to compare, my guess it that the sound will be much cleaner. And while there are a few club members here who use an SF-2 as their preamp, it is primarily a tone shaping tool; and that's how most SF-2 owners use it. Unlike the F-1X and F-2B, the SF-2 does not have a tube stage. Personally, I think the F-1X is a great preamp, though I'm currently using an F-2B to get a little more tubiness. | ||
| 0vid
Intermediate Member Username: 0vid Post Number: 152 Registered: 4-2003 |
[Quote]I think most amps like ampeg, mesa, etc.will add alot of color to the sound that isn't needed or wanted for bass if you want a really clean hi-fi sound. I have three amp setups in my possesion, and use bag end 15" cabs. A mesa walkabout, a demeter preamp with a qsc power amp, and an ampeg b25. By far the most hi-fi and cleanest sonding is the ampeg followed by the Demeter. The mesa adds sometimg to my sound I really don't like. If you want a true hifi sound, you should look into getting an Alembic preamp or the Demeter preamp. An sf2 will also improve your sound greatly and may be the least expensive route. (Message edited by glocke on July 26, 2008)[Quote] +1... but add to that a full range speaker system, not a 2 way system. Most 2 way commercial cabs have a severe mid dip, largely due to the woofer running beyond its frequency capabilities, before the tweeter kicks in. Also, if by hi-fi you mean clean and neutral, Ampeg is your least likely candidate, ... Ampegs give you a great tone but a coloured tone. | ||
| glocke
Senior Member Username: glocke Post Number: 401 Registered: 9-2002 |
"Also, if by hi-fi you mean clean and neutral, Ampeg is your least likely candidate, ... Ampegs give you a great tone but a coloured tone." Not the old heads like the B25....all tube, and super clean. | ||
| kenbass4
Advanced Member Username: kenbass4 Post Number: 299 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry I'm a little late. As Harry said, I play through an SVTCL, which is tubes all the way through, unlike the SVT-4Pro which is solid state in the power section. I actually prefer the growly tube snarl thet the Ampeg imparts, but I do have an SF-2 in my signal chain to tweak my sound and supplement the high end clarity. Ken | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2008 |
That's probably what I will have to experiment with. Hoping to check out a F1-x where I can bypass the Ampeg preamp,then I might have the best of both worlds, being able to switch from external preamp to internal depending upon my bass 73 Jazz, Musicman Sabre, Hi bred Precision to external preamp Kawai and Exploiter. Have seen not many SF-2 around | ||
| willie
Member Username: willie Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hey, somebody else with a Music Man Sabre. You don't see many of them around either. I also have a Music Man HD-150 amp that I considered doing something like your talking about. Install a switch, (probably DPDT), before the preamp section of the HD 150 and install a jack for the output from my F1-X. That way I could combine the tube output of the 150 with the tube preamp from the F1-X. I would wire it so that flipping the switch would allow normal operation of the 150's own preamp. Haven't got around to it yet. Currently the F1-X is connected to 3000 watts of Crown power so I'm not hurting for power or tone. Just curious about how it would sound and it would be cool to see those tubes glowing purple again. If you rewire that Ampeg let us know how it works out. Might inspire me to go ahead with my experiment. Willie | ||
| 82daion
Intermediate Member Username: 82daion Post Number: 185 Registered: 5-2005 |
The most "hi-fi" bass sound I've heard with my Alembic was a Glockenklang Bugatti preamp through a Bergantino IP212. It wasn't exactly the sound I would go for in a band setting, but it reproduced the bass in a very clean, uncolored fashion that was very flattering to its natural sound. My sound with a Thunderfunk TFB550 and Acme Low B 210's was close, but with a little more color due to the natural sound of the Thunderfunk. While it wasn't as high-fidelity as the Glock/Berg rig, it was closer to my preferred tone. | ||
| 811952
Senior Member Username: 811952 Post Number: 1435 Registered: 10-2003 |
For a few years I often ran my Series 1.5 direct into the input of my power amps, sans any tone control beyond what's on the instrument itself, and from there into a pile of Peavey 1810 cabinets. It sounded very good. John | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2008 |
The SVT 4 Pro is set up to bypass the built in preamp just by directly plugging into the back of the amp to power amp in, this disconnects the internal preamp. . this way I guess with just plugs I could use an external preamp, unplug it and then use the internal. | ||
| edwin
Advanced Member Username: edwin Post Number: 356 Registered: 5-2002 |
While the old Ampeg tube amps sound great, they are anything but flat. Take your preamp output, run it into some studio monitors. There's what your DI sounds like. If you run that signal into an old Ampeg tube amp, it won't sound anything like the studio monitors. If it did, they'd be using them as studio monitors. Not to say that it won't sound good. For a long time, I put effort into making my onstage rig a mini PA so that I would be able to make intelligent decisions about my tone that would translate through the DI into the PA. These days I mostly use in ears, so it's not a problem to approximate what the PA hears. Edwin | ||
| rockbassist
Intermediate Member Username: rockbassist Post Number: 146 Registered: 8-2005 |
I used to have a deal with Ampeg and tried a variety of heads and cabs including the SVT 4 Pro with an HLF cab. I also tried running bi-amped with a 4x10 and 2x10 and just running through an 8x10. I tried an SVT Classic all tube head through different cabs as well. I was never happy with my sound. I finally gave up the deal and switched to Gallien Krueger. I run a GK 1001RB-II, bi-amped through a GK 410RBH and a 115RBH cab. People have told me that my bass sounds better than ever. I do not have a deal with GK but I have been very happy with this setup and the customer service. | ||
| benson_murrensun
Member Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 55 Registered: 5-2007 |
One way to find out what is hi-fi and what is not is to use a pink noise generator, a measurement microphone and a frequency analyzer. Run the pink noise through the rig in question at the level you intend to be playing, and then measure the frequencies emitted from the speakers, and their comparative levels. The rig that needs the least EQ-ing is the most inherently hi-fi. Of course, there is nothing wrong with using EQ to get a flat sound, if the rig can accomplish that, and if that is what sounds good to you. Caveat: the sound being measured is dependent on the acoustic qualities of the environment in which this takes place, so to compare one rig to another you would want to do it in the same place. I do this with my permanently-installed home stereo system, as a flat sound generally pleases my ears in that application, but not with my bass rigs, since there are many more variables involved, such as changing acoustic environments (when you play in another location) and the sound of other musicians as they play, who may be producing frequencies which enhance or mask the frequencies you are producing. I have found that a nice sound I dial in when playing alone doesn't quite make it when others start playing, and some adjustment is needed. I am ignorant as to how this measurement method is affected by "growl" and other types of distortion. Can anybody help out? | ||
| oujeebass
Intermediate Member Username: oujeebass Post Number: 122 Registered: 10-2002 |
My question/theory is that as you apply wattage to an amplified signal at some point the amp would begin to amplify or not amplify certain frequencies. This would result in the loss of high fidelity or wide flat frequency response. In the end, with a true hifi setup the volume would not change the tone. This would also be very dependant on the acoustics of the area, but that's where eq comes in to tune it flat. Then your tone would truly come from your instrument.<?> | ||
| benson_murrensun
Member Username: benson_murrensun Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2007 |
I see what you mean; the sonic characteristics of loudpeakers (and probably other gear as well) change as power levels change, not to mention that phenomenon of human hearing that makes perception of frequency range different from the actual frequency range (as measured by instruments) as the volume changes. Psycho-acoustics muddle everything up!!!! | ||
| kol
Junior Username: kol Post Number: 16 Registered: 1-2003 |
So you are looking for HI-Sound? So have I down the years.Started back in 75,and have found some answers down the road.To get right to the point,to get hi-fi sound from my Rouge-5 I had to get rid of my Bassamps because they did not do the job.I found that the root of the problem is the speakers.What you are after is speakers with as High definition or resolution as posible.In my serach I found a small company from Sweden called Intelligent Sound that has come up with amazing speakers. Now I more or less have better sound on the stage than what is in the PA.That is something. | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 22 Registered: 5-2008 |
Just borrowed a members F1x, setup with SVT 4 Pro bypassing the built in Ampeg preamp. First reaction wow! Was able to a/b both, what a difference the F1x makes! Seems to have more tone control with just the bass/middle/treble than the Ampeg with EQ sliders and other various controls. Will have a better chance to try out later in week |
