| Author | Message | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2003 |
hi all spent the last few hours reading thru this wealth of info here. I own an 83 spoiler that plays fantastically well, i would like to update the pickups, to me they sound very compressed, i also play a fender jazz and would like to emulate that sound if possible. I welcome any thoughts or ideas from the group | ||
| kayo
Junior Username: kayo Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2002 |
Bro - why would you buy an Alembic and then want it to sound like a Fender? That's kinda like buying a Porsche and wanting it to handle like a Ford..... | ||
| scrub
New Username: scrub Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2003 |
Have you tried adjusting the trimpots on the board inside the electronics cavity? (Message edited by scrub on July 31, 2003) | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2003 |
kayo you make a good point i guess i want more presence out of it rather than a fender sound and scrub i have not tried that adjustment perhaps turning up the bridge and lowering the neck output will help. all ideas welcomed | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2003 |
also if any of you guys were going to replace the pickups what would you go with i tend to lean towards passive but again wide open for ideas | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1058 Registered: 6-2000 |
duckmauler, have you tried the different positions on tone control? Make sure you don't only try the full-open position on the filter, a small rotation impacts the sound alot. The internal trimpots will only change the gain of each pickup and won't have any affect on the tone. You might want to experiment with the height of the pickups to change the character of the sound, then balance out the gains with the internal trimmers. Anther suggestion is to try different strings, and don't forget to try flatwounds too. How long have you had this bass? Your observation of a "compressed" sound is about opposite what I feel the Spoilers (and Alembics in general) sound like. I suppose there's a possibilty that after 20 years the parts may need some TLC. I can't offer advice about other pickups, but certainly the other Club members will be able to help you out there. | ||
| scrub
New Username: scrub Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2003 |
Hrmm. My dear I hate to do it, but I must disagree with you; gain does affect tone, and the relative gain of the pickups does have an important effect. I find that I like to keep the pan centered but bring up the gain on the neck pickup just a bit (which is not the same effect as bringing down the gain on the bridge pickup). [I wish the gain controls were still front mounted and if I ever order a custom, I will specify that.] I don't know to explain this - I've never tried to actually put it into words before - but when I run one or the other pickup, I can hear that the signal seems more...um...wide open or free or perhaps unrestrained; but when using both pickups together, I get a more...um...sort of restricted feel in the signal, which I might describe as a feeling of tension, but which I suppose could be described as feeling "tighter" or "compressed". I can feel the two pickups merging their signals and in the process, the signal acquires something, and also loses something. The signal, rather than being simply the sum of the parts, seems to be in some way different, more tense. When that happens, I raise the gain on the neck pickup a small amount, to sort of overcome the tension a bit. I know that's horribly vague and hopefully your electronics gurus won't laugh too hard at my way of describing the feeling instead of speaking in terms of fundamentals, overtones and harmonics. I do consciously avoid over-analyzing the details of tone, as I tend to get focused on the details and lose my more general sense - my engineer side overbalances my artistic side. Anyway, that is how all of my Alembics have always seemed to me, and it is one of the reasons why I love them so, and why I always run both pickups; that tension in the signal has become something which I just can't do without. | ||
| elzie
Intermediate Member Username: elzie Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2002 |
I don't know about your bass scrub, but when I change the gain on each of my pickups, I get the same tone, just a whole lot more of it ;) Blending the two pickups together will drastically change the tone, depending on how far you want to blend. Duckmauler,there are a few important questions though; How long have you owned this bass? Have you noticed a change in tone/sound if you have owned it for a while? And last but not least, welcome to the club  Paul II, The sequel Duckmauler, your bass may be at the point where it would benefit from just replacing the electronics with a new stock setup. (Message edited by elzie on July 31, 2003) | ||
| davehouck
Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2002 |
Duckmauler; my guess is that 99%, or more, of the club members would never replace Alembic pickups with another brand. Again I'm guessing but the consensus is probably that Alembic pickups are the best. Another point to consider is that the electronics are designed with the pickups in mind. Changing strings can make a big difference. Also, changing amps or speakers can make a big difference. For instance there is a huge difference between my Acme and by Eden cabs; switching cabs is like playing two different basses. If you really want to upgrade your electronics, you may want to consider sending the bass to Alembic and having them install Europa or Signature electronics. I've been considering doing that with my Essence, but I can't stand being away from it for more than a few hours <g>. | ||
| scrub
New Username: scrub Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2003 |
I too am thinking of sending my Essence in to have some work done. For one thing, there is a mix and match of the look. It has chrome tuners, but brass everywhere else (except the backplates, which are plastic). I'm thinking of having the rest of the hardware chromed (or all of it nickeled) and replacing the backplates as well. For another, this one only has one trim pot (if I recall correctly...it's been a while since I opened it up) and for the reasons above I'd rather have two. I think it'll need frets eventually as well, so I'd have that done at the same time. | ||
| elzie
Intermediate Member Username: elzie Post Number: 162 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave, you are right about the cabs. I remember last year when I replace my Laney 410 with a Hartke. What a difference! Coupled with the signature electronics in my Excel, it was just what I wanted. It had more presence than I could handle. For anyone interested in the signature electronics, I can plug my bass into the computer and sample some sounds for you. Granted, it is an Excel and won't sound exactly like your bass', but you can get an idea. Paul II | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 101 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul II; the sampling idea could be very helpful. Currently I have two basses with Essence controls and one with Europa controls. For me, the Europa controls significantly expand the tonal possibilities of Essence controls. And it seems to me that having a filter for each pickup would also be a significant expansion of tonal possibilities. So I think your idea of sampling the tones available from Signature electronics could be very helpful. | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2002 |
The reason the spoiler pickups (or any alembic pickups) may sound compressed is primarily because the pickups are not adjusted close enough to the strings (play with the gain settings also). Check to see if there is a big gap between the pickups and the strings. The further away the pickups are, the less dynamic they will sound. No change in original tone, just a much less punchy sound. If this doen't work, then there's something wrong with the guitar cable you're using (wire not conducting the signal very well) or the rig needs to be adjusted. I doubt seriously that anything's wrong with the pickups internally unless it's partially shorted out or something (i don't see how that can happen with an encapsulated coil. | ||
| elzie
Intermediate Member Username: elzie Post Number: 164 Registered: 8-2002 |
Dave, I can put together a short mp3 of different settings with various string positions to give you an overall sound. I can have it ready to mail to you on Monday if you would like. Paul, The Sequel..... | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2002 |
If it's no trouble that would be great. But if it starts looking like it's going to take a lot of time, dont' worry about it. I was just looking at the picture of your bass; is the body mahogany? | ||
| elzie
Intermediate Member Username: elzie Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2002 |
You know Dave, I honestly don't know. I bought the bass used a few years back and the owner didn't tell me much. I learned more from Rami ;) If someone is good with determining wood from a picture, I would gladly snap some more. Paul, The Next Generation | ||
| kipknee
Junior Username: kipknee Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2002 |
DuckMauler, A couple of comments here. First, on the Spoiler, make sure that you're running a good battery. Make sure your strings are not dead. Make sure you're running good amps/cabinets. Also, as Mica said, play around with the tone/filter controls to get a feel for the different sounds this bass will produce. The Spoiler is a great instrument. I bought mine used in 1984 or 1985 (I forget now) it's been my "go to" bass for almost 20 years. Even now that I own a Series I bass, I still grab the Spoiler for most gigs. All that being said, you also must know that the Spoiler is NOT a Jazz bass. The tones they produce are totally different. Because of the bolt-on neck and single-coil pickups, the short sustain on the Jazz bass often gets interpreted/described as "punchy." It's definitely a specific sound. I occasionally get calls for a gig that simply require that traditional Jazz bass sound. For those gigs, I keep an actual Fender Jazz bass tucked away in my closet. I hope this helps. Whatever you do, don't yank the pickups on the Spoiler, you'll end up creating more problems than you solve. Worst case scenario: sell the Spoiler and buy another Jazz bass. | ||
| mattheus
Junior Username: mattheus Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2003 |
Hi there. Problems with a Spoiler? I own a Spoiler since '87. It's been my 'workhorse' ever since. I've also owned a Series 2, but I always ended up using my Spoiler. Like Mica suggested, try different positions of the tone control. It's amazing. A very simple and easy control, to get very various bass-sounds. As for the compressed sound you get; perhaps a low battery? Or, sometimes a cable. Try monster cables. They are expensive, but suddenly you get a wall of sound! Do you use a wireless set-up? If so, every wireless system compresses your sound. Simple to test, compare a wireless system next to a (good) cable; you won't believe your ears. Perhaps something in backline isn't working properly. Remember you're using an active bass. Try another input on your amp (Sometimes amps have different inputs for activ and non-activ basses). I hope you can solve your problem. With my Spoiler I only get complaints that it sounds too dynamic. (Tech guys, what do they know about basses ; ) ) Good luck, and bass along Mattheus tDo | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2003 |
wow guys this is a real treasure chest of knowlegde here and i appreciate all the help. I have owned the bass for about a year, i play thru 2 Hartke systems one is a 4 12 cabinet and the other is a 15 and 2 10's. i mainly play small clubs and rely on stage volume as i am not mixed into the PA. The action is very low and the pickups are less the 1/4 inch away from the strings. The tone has not seemed to me to change over the period i have owned the bass, and yes in the begining being a "Fender" man i ran everything wide open but i did see the benefit in using the Q sweep and tone knob in fact a get a very nice quasi-fretless sound by manipulating the tone. Maybe i should also tell you all what type of music i play i am in a varierty band which means everything from Patsy Cline to Talking Heads to Bob Marley and Gatemouth Brown so a wide range of sounds is something i need to have. I think Elzie might be on track when he mentioned i could stand to update the electronics, i know the previous owner of the bass and lets just say the Spoiler is in a much happier home now. How do i go about getting the electronics updated and where can i find cost and specs for that type of job? I really like the way this bass handles and feels and plays, it a lot easier to play then my Jazz, and i would like to make it my workhorse providing i can get that ever elusive "perfect tone" And just a word to everyone out there i really appreciate the info and insight you are providing, i have been a working musician for the last 23 years (i am 40 now)and like someone once said there is no substitute for experience and everybody here seems to have a lot of that. Thanks again and i will let you know how things work out | ||
| elzie
Intermediate Member Username: elzie Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2002 |
As for the electronics, first figure out what you want, stock replacement or something different. I think a stock replacement may do very well for you. You should e-mail Mica with your serial number and other information and ask her real nice if she would provide you with a price quote for the new electronics. And be patient, as they are a very busy group of people at Alembic! It "sounds" as you have already been through everything else; battery, pickup hieght, etc.... I also use Hartke equipment, so I know you should be getting some hefty presence from your setups! Paul | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2003 |
ok stop the presses i have been tweaking on the bass for about 45 min and then it came!!! the perfect combination of pickup height (super raised to within a whisker of the string for the bridge pickup and bout 1/4 in away from the string for the neck pu) then went in back and adjusted the balance and BOOM i found the growl i have been looking for!! Honestly it sounds like a whole new instrument i can't wait to get to the gig tonight and try it on my 15 and 2 10 hartke set up also fyi i went into the passive input on the amp i find i get a lil more gain that way and i am using no compression and have the eq switch turned off, running everything else essentially flat so its all the tone of the Alembic. Color me converted | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2003 |
ok it is now the next day and i played it last night and noticed something a lil funny. first off i installed a new battery and had a new guitar cable, when i initally pluged up it sounded nice and crisp good tone all was well. then about 45 min or so into the set i noticed i seemed to lose a lil high end the sound got duller for lack of a better term. ok then break time i unplug the bass so as to save battery, then come back in about 15 20 min and sounds good again and as i got into the set it went dull. Any thoughts or ideas as to why? perhaps the electronics are a bit old and as i said the previous owner was not the best for care. I welcome anyones ideas. I feel like i am so close lol please .let me know what you all think thanks | ||
| duckmauler
New Username: duckmauler Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2003 |
ok it is now the next day and i played it last night and noticed something a lil funny. first off i installed a new battery and had a new guitar cable, when i initally pluged up it sounded nice and crisp good tone all was well. then about 45 min or so into the set i noticed i seemed to lose a lil high end the sound got duller for lack of a better term. ok then break time i unplug the bass so as to save battery, then come back in about 15 20 min and sounds good again and as i got into the set it went dull. Any thoughts or ideas as to why? perhaps the electronics are a bit old and as i said the previous owner was not the best for care. I welcome anyones ideas. I feel like i am so close lol please .let me know what you all think thanks | ||
| dnburgess
Member Username: dnburgess Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2003 |
Duck, sounds kinda like a problem I had a while back which turned out to be due to some dodgy capacitors. Turned out to be a fairly minor repair - assuming you have access to a tech that really knows their business. |
