Carry-on on Frontier Airlines

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Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through September 30, 2008 hieronymous 50  1  9-30-08  11:15 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message juggernaught Intermediate Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 196 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 7:18 am:    Hal, do you go through Denver or Minneapolis a lot? How about Frontier Airlines? juggernaught Intermediate Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 197 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 7:25 am:    I did get pulled aside for my bass once in ABQ. They saw the battery on the xray and wanted to do various tests on the bass. I was afraid that they were going to want to open her up! Thankfully they didn't: they just did this thing where they wiped areas around the backplates with some tissue and analyzed the tissue with a machine. I bet a lot of this depends on the "threat level" though. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3288 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 7:41 am:    Hal: TSA has authority to tell airlines what they can't allow on board. This is significantly different from telling the airlines what they are required to allow on-board. For example, TSA can forbid an airline from allowing dynamite on board, but can't force the airline to allow Kenny G CDs if the airline, in its infinite wisdom, chooses to ban such malodorous materials!. Even if you had the "right" to bring an instrument on board as carry-on and the airline respected your "right" 99% of the time, that 1% could result in a damaged instrument. In my line of work, I consistently deal with patients who have the "right" to possess cannabis, but the cops arrest them anyway. We may eventually prevail in court, but that didn't stop the cops from seizing medicine and arresting the person in the first place. That's why I coughed up the money for Calton cases for my Further and D-28. The Calton case is the same size as a standard hard case (The Further case is guitar shaped, like a 335 case - not a big rectangle). On my last trip with the Further, they let me bring it on the outbound flight, but made me gate check it on the way back. My advice is to try your darnedest to carry on the instrument, but be prepared to gate check. Bill, tgo juggernaught Intermediate Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 199 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - 9:02 am:    I still like the idea of bringing a gig bag and tucking the neck part under your arm. Clever. byoung Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1090 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Thursday, October 02, 2008 - 10:24 am:    So, Bill, Am I to understand that you bought a Calton case because your clients keep getting arrested for possession? Does it have some kind of secret pocket or something? Filled with coffee? A place to fit "stuff"? Do you recommend them for other forms of contraband? Fissile materials perhaps? Just wondering. Bradley PS- Bill already knows this, but I'm yanking his chain. Nothing meant by it. hendixclarke Advanced Member Username: hendixclarke Post Number: 335 Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 7:24 pm:    Hieronymous, the 2006 article was heart breaking. Yeah, it's sad as hell for us musicians who travel via air. But in all fairness, the article was written back in 2006. Again, we are talking about the size of something "just about or equal to the size of an average guitar..." In fact just call it anything you want... But just remember to ask yourself this question: "will this bag fit the overhead locker and TSA baggage requirements..." Ask for the measurements. Once you know the Airlines and TSA measurements, measure your bag. If your bag complies with their rules, then at this point, walk proudly and enjoy your flight... (because you did your homework...) However, if Flight attendants stops you while entering the plane, tell you know the rules and you would be more than happy to show that it measures perfectly for flight. (There's usually a bag measuring container, that validates size at most boarding gates) ask if they would measure your bag (work with them, make this a professional issue not personal). If they still stop you, tell them it's a bag with a guitar inside and it could be easily damaged... Tell them, most hard shell case wouldn't fit their overhead lockers, and the soft bag shotens the length to stow with ease. Tell them you want to follow the rules... Stay professional and cool and please never make a scene. Be cheeful and smart. Stay on point, with the measurement rules, you have nothing to fear. If they still want you to check the bag in, ask them why... If they just say because they say so... ask for an official statement of their bases for refusal. IT WILL NEVER GET THIS FAR, BE COOL! Last post on this one, enjoy your fly. byoung Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1093 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 11:02 pm:    Right. Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing a bass fitting into 9 by 14 by 22 inches. That's how big the airline measuring bin is. Maybe yours has a folding neck or something? Mine won't fit. Just for reference, that is the allowed size, and you're completely dependent upon the grace of a flight attendant that just broke up with her cheating guitarist boyfriend. Good luck with that. I couldn't resist feeding the troll, just in case anyone tries to take this advice seriously. bsee Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2035 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 12:06 am:    I know how you feel, Brad. This has been one of the most irresponsible trolling runs I've seen at this club over the last five years. There's the occasional angry or insensitive post, but never anyone so insistent on providing bad information. There is no airline on the planet that has measurement rules which, if followed, would allow you to carry an Alembic bass guitar onto a commercial airplane. If anyone has documentation of such an airline, please post the link to those carry on regulations. I don't expect to see too many such responses, though... juggernaught Intermediate Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 200 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 12:25 am:    Bob, I just wanted to reiterate that while there isn't a specific size rule that allows guitars, they aren't specifically prohibited as they are in an exception class. I couldn't find any info on their website, but got this from an agent reading from more specific regulations. However, I'd bet a bag of gold that the same reasons that airline staff can choose prohibit you to bring your bass are, I'm guessing, as easily applicable to your normal correct size luggage. also, hal wasn't talking about the sizing bins, but the overhead bins. I have *never* had a problem fitting my bass in the overhead, evn on the regional planes. I understand Brad has a bit of an attitude but I understand that he's trying to be informative. However, I'm really not able to separate opinion with experience with almost everyone posting here. "...broke up with her boyfriend..." talk about trying to find any possible thing that could go wrong. I know this is you being "realistic" but it sounds like to me juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 201 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 12:39 am:    also, even though Hal's advice could be construed as being foolishly or even purposely misinforming (though I can't for the life of me see how you could be certain of the later), it's worth noting that he's been very helpful if you're trying to minimize risk. Come prepared, be nice and cool, check the measurements, get it in writing... this is all great advice and would certainly help you get your bass in the overhead. The motivation on flaming this idea because it's too optimistic and not %100 is beyond me, but I suspect there are some "principles" being violated here. bsee Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2036 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 12:46 am:    Devon, you're right that guitars aren't specifically excluded as a class because they are guitars, but Hal's information is completely bogus. There is, in fact, a specific size rule that, if applied, would exclude all full-sized guitars and basses. No one has a right to carry a guitar onto an airplane unless they buy a ticket for it. You may be allowed to do so, but it isn't because you have the right. To suggest that you do and should stand your ground is pretty outrageous. As far as Brad's attitude is concerned, I'm right there with him. The answers to your question happened a long time ago. There's not too many people with experience because most don't try once they understand the rules and that it is up to the judgment of the flight crew. This thread is going to live on this website beyond your interest in the matter and shouldn't misguide someone who reads it next year. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3301 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 9:27 am:    If the airlines tell you you can't carry on your instrument, just show them the piece of paper you downloaded from the internet that says you can. Boy that will change their tune fast! This also works with cops on dark middle-of-nowhere highways. When the cop pulls you over and tells you to get out of the car because he's going to search it, you just show him a copy of the Constitution and tell him the law says he can't search your car. The officer will then undoubtedly tell you that he didn't know that was the law, apologize profusely, give you $10,000 for your trouble, and let you go on your way. And even if the airlines banish your gig-bag protected instrument to the cargo hold, and it gets damaged, I'm sure the company you insure it with won't mind at all that you shipped it in only a gig bag and will be glad to pay off. yea, right Bill, tgo juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 202 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 9:56 am:    OK, enough of the defeatist attitude: I think we get it already. Flying with your bass has risks. But it's rather pointless to dwell on this "whatever can go wrong, will" nonsense. Yes, the airline staff have the last say, yes you can get your bass damaged, yes, it will be your responsibility in the end, yes yes yes we get your point. HOWEVER! If one was wanting to try to carry on, knowing the rules *can* help you in negotiating with the airline staff in your favor. They can misunderstand the rules themselves but are also capable of being reasonable people. Having a note relating your situation and the rules (on your ticket even) can only help you in that situation. This is *very* useful advice. And yes, we get how they have the final say and can be as unreasonable as they'd like. But giving advice on how to minimize risk when you choose to carry-on is harmful? Come-on people! Think outside your own risk assessment here and let people decide for themselves. juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 203 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 10:07 am:    Also, for the sake of future generations, it may be best if someone compiled an objective summary of what we discussed here (and perhaps what was on the vic site, other sources): the different ways to bring your bass on the plane (carry on, gate check, etc), risks, rights, and most importantly *methods* for minimizing those risk to put on the FAQs. This thread has become far too subjective to be really useful. Heck I'd do it too if I could get further cooperation and research on this subject from members on the methods. We definitely have enough on the risks and lack of rights, so we could stop there. Just saying "don't do it" isn't enough. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3302 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 11:00 am:    Devon: You are correct. Just saying "don't do it" isn't enough. How about "don't do it unless you are willing to sacrifice your instrument"? Hey, that's the answer! Hal, you'll love this one. If the airline says "no", pull a Hendrix/Townsend - smash up the instrument right there in the terminal as a sacrifice to the R&R Gods. It will then certainly be reduced in size sufficiently to fit on-board! Why leave destruction of your axe to the cargo handlers when you can do it yourself! (And some people win in Vegas, but I wouldn't count on it, either). Bill, tgo hendixclarke Advanced Member Username: hendixclarke Post Number: 336 Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 11:05 am:    Stove gloves off... For the lack of trust in authorities, Bill I suggest, you NOT attempt to board flights with your guitar(s). For, you are apparently, the only smart guy in the room. I am sorry, but correct me if I am wrong, I had not read your experiences (pleasant or otherwise) attempting to board any air flight... (true?) Therefore, you missed this opportunity to share from this perspective, which is mst valuable. Cops in a alley... (You are reaching and using fear to fighten me, "oh me oh mie"...) I would bet money, this is a clue to your own personal despicable prejudices on many other issues, which I would dare nor care to explore. The only reason I am wasting time with your negative vibes, is to provide a mirror of your own values and soul, which I whole-heartily disagree. I shared my values, based upon my personal experiences, and you offered nothing but hypotheticals and negative answerers and frankly without direct insight and experiences. We all must do our jobs correctly and professionally regarless of our trade. To serve people with honor and respect, is exactly what we get as the reward. Serve others, as you would wish to be served. This is so simple. With answers like your's, the measure of a "half full or half full glass", you neither have the glass or the water to even measure. You want positive, be positive, it's this simple. Take it, however you want it Bill. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3303 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 11:28 am:    Hal: You wrote: "I am sorry, but correct me if I am wrong, I had not read your experiences (pleasant or otherwise) attempting to board any air flight... (true?).... I shared my values, based upon my personal experiences, and you offered nothing but hypotheticals and negative answerers and frankly without direct insight and experiences." If you refer to my above post of 10/1, you will read: "On my last trip with the Further, they let me bring it on the outbound flight, but made me gate check it on the way back. My advice is to try your darnedest to carry on the instrument, but be prepared to gate check." I am certainly not the only one here espousing an opinion that the airlines can't be relied on to let you carry on an instrument, though, admittedly, I may be attempting to throw in a little more humor than most. Under the circumstances, your above post is inaccurate, inappropriate, and uncalled for. Bill, tgo (Message edited by lbpesq on October 04, 2008) hendixclarke Advanced Member Username: hendixclarke Post Number: 337 Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 12:11 pm:    Bill, I am glad you are still amused with the Hendrix guitar sacrifice threads, I left on your mind. Although you are still reaching to find a stable and suitable foundation to find fault with my position on this thread; attempts to introduce another issue(s) from another thread(s) are weaken when the issues are totally different. Its silly Dude, and your execution of funniness is also weak, to say the least. I want to laugh, but I am laughing at how hard you are trying to be funny. LOL!!! Chill out, go and pick up your Alembic and take your doctor's prescribed med's and be thankful your doctor is also someone you must trust as well. bsee Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2037 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 1:32 pm:    Devon, if "knowing the rules" is helpful, then you should know the <expletive> rules. The "rules" that Hal has been espousing are incorrect. I point to my earlier posts and defy any one of you to locate and publish a link to a single airline regulation that says that an instrument the size of an Alembic guitar or bass is within the carry-on size limitations. Writing that they are specifically allowed when they aren't isn't "sharing experiences". It isn't "helpful knowledge". It is irresponsible drivel. If Hal wants to say that he has experience carrying a bass onto a plane, that's great. If he wants to give tips on sweet-talking flight crews, fine, he'll get no argument from me. My summary of this entire thread as it relates to general air travel reads as follows: ===== The TSA will let you carry a guitar through a security checkpoint. Their published rules confirm this. The airlines may let you carry your guitar onto the plane, but they may not. Musical instruments in general are on their lists of allowed items, but all Alembic guitars and basses exceed the size limits for every major airline. In spite of this, a guitar or bass in a gig bag will fit in almost every planes overhead compartment. On many planes it could also be stowed in the coat closet. It's up to the gate staff and flight crew to make a final decision. In addition to crew attitudes, which airport, which airline, what plane, and how full it is can factor into that decision. So can the way you behave when trying to get your guitar onto the plane. One professional musician said that he tries to carry the bag with the neck going up the inside of his arm so that it looks like a briefcase when going through the gate. If your guitar is not allowed into the cabin, you can either gate check it, or not get on the plane. Reported incidence of damage for gate-checked instruments in gig bags is very high. Calls to airlines generally confirm all of the above and result in equivocal answers. There are no reports of any such conversation resulting in a guarantee that the guitar would be allowed on board. ===== What additional info would be helpful? The best thing I could hope for is an escalation path for the request. One thing is for sure, I wouldn't try any of this at the last minute. juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 204 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 1:44 pm:    Bob, here it is, in writing: http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_US/travelInformation/baggage/carryOnAllowance.jsp "Small musical instruments may be carried onboard the aircraft providing they meet existing carry-on size requirements and fit in the overhead bin or under the seat in front of you. Case dimensions may not exceed 45 linear inches (width + length + height), EXCEPT for guitars which may be brought on board only if they can be safely stowed in an overhead bin or approved stowage location in the cabin." So, what I have been trying to tell you is that that there *is* a specific size rule, but guitars are an *exception* to this rule. Again, that's the rule for AA: if under size or member of exception (which guitars are explicitly stated as being one) then OK, else not OK. Of course the caveat is the crew has the final say. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3304 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 1:50 pm:    Hal: I sincerely apologize if I offended you with my post. None was intended. However, I am not "reaching to find a stable and suitable foundation to find fault". You flamed me, specifically stating that I had not posted any personal experience with flying with an instrument upon which to base my opinion. You invited me to correct you if you were wrong. You were wrong. I corrected you. I didn't have to reach to do it. It is right there in black and white. Personal attacks are not appropriate on this site. Bob: Excellent summary. May I suggest two more points: First, in my experience a hard "guitar shaped" case, like a Les Paul or ES335 style case (or a Calton case) will fit in the overhead of many planes. I have carried such cases on board in the past. A rectangular hard case, like a Strat case or standard Alembic case, probably won't fit in the overhead compartment. Secondly, it seems to me that the coat closet storage you refer to has been dissappearing from planes over the last few years. I remember well being able to sweettalk a compassionate stewardess into letting me put my guitar there in the past. More recently I found that the planes I fly (both short hop and cross-country) no longer have such a closet. I don't know if this is due to 9/11 or economic pressures (more seats?), but it does seem to be the case. Bill, tgo juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 205 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 1:54 pm:    coat closet storage depends on the situation. If you see a person in a wheelchair waiting to get on the plane, then you're screwed. The rest is dependent on the crew since they use it too. keith_h Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1135 Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 2:19 pm:    Bill, You've notice the same thing I have about the closets. In the 70's I don't recall getting on a plane of any type with out having a coat closet just inside the front door. There also seemed to be another set between upper and lower class. Oops I mean 1st class and coach since we are not supposed to discuss politics. :-) Back in those days it was fairly easy to take my JB on board as it took up less closet space than most suit bags. From what I have seen and heard talking to folks in the industry (mostly my father) the shift has been to remove non-passenger carrying space in order to add more seats and try to make the flights profitable. As far as I know the trend to remove non-passenger space started somewhere in the 80's mostly for economics. I'm not sure of the factors today but up through the 90's a plane usually had to be 50%-75% full to break even. Keith hendixclarke Advanced Member Username: hendixclarke Post Number: 338 Registered: 6-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 04, 2008 - 2:50 pm:    Bill, I am sorry as well for not reading as throughly as I should, this is why I said correct me if I am wrong... No harm done, and yes, I am very aware of the rules here, this is why I like it here. This site is a classy site with many intelligent people from all walks of life. I mean this whole heartily. I am always open for corrections, if my ideas fails myself and others especially. I don't mind looking at myself at all. byoung Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1094 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 11:37 am:    Last post for me (in this thread). I just want to re-iterate one very important point: There are no objective standards as to whether your guitar will be allowed on any commercial airline in the United States. I can't speak to international, except to say that international flights are more forgiving in general. The most important thing to understand about flying is that everyone you meet (i.e. TSA, gate attendants, flight attendants) has authority over you and your bags. They can require you to check them. As I mentioned earlier, I saw someone kicked off a flight ("you are not getting on this flight!", accompanied by tearing the customer's ticket into pieces) for asking an impertinent question. If a flight attendant decides that your bag will be checked/that it does not fit in the overhead, you will either check it, or not fly at all. All they have to say is: "I don't feel it is safe to allow this," and the airline, TSA, and police will back them completely, regardless of the reality, corporate policy, etc. Just to establish my bonafides: I'm a frequent flyer, I have in excess of 500,000 lifetime miles, and frankly, have been there and done that. I may come off as having an attitude, but please understand my thinking: I would not wish to see anyone's precious instrument destroyed, and I consider the risk to be very much in excess of the reward. Just for additional reference, due to my frequent flyer status, I'm usually one of the first people on the plane, and have a tendency to people watch. I've seen several guitars be forced to be checked (at least gate-checked), and fewer that actually made it on (mostly Martin backpacker type). If the flight is not full, your chances are better, but there isn't any reliable method of determining whether the flight will be full. If the prior flight gets canceled (which is more and more common due to lax maintenance and wanting to have full flights (i.e. if you have two half full flights within a few hours of each other, you can rest assured that the first flight will be canceled due to "mechanical issues" or some such)). I've done risk analysis. Here's a basic formula for analyzing risk: (probability that something will happen) * (effect of that happening) = actual risk Let's fill in some samples: If there is a 10% chance that your $5000 instrument will be destroyed: .1 * 5000 = $500 risk, every time you get on a plane. Now, there are strategies to deal with this, like insurance. But your insurance will not pay if the item was improperly packed. The airline will not pay the $2500 (IATA regulated) baggage insurance, because it was improperly packed. (We're assuming gig bag, right?) The only way to get insurance to work is to make sure the item is properly packed, which means ATA approved flight case. The other thing that is unstated here are values above dollars, which also work for this equation, but not in the mathematical sense. If for instance, you were traveling with your beloved pet, from whom you could not imagine being parted, the effect could be considered infinite, i.e. there is an infinite amount of actual risk attached, regardless of the chance. In the business world, the effect would typically be "we cease to exist". The other interesting part about risk management is that oftentimes there are no good (or even acceptable) answers. C'est la vie! I apologize if my earlier responses were emotional, or contained "attitude". I'd just hate to see it all end in tears. Bradley lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3308 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 11:59 am:    Bradley: I dig your attitude, man! Bill, tgo mario_farufyno New Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2008 Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 7:46 am:    Strange Times we're living. Since security issues forbid you to carry on a simple nail clip on your flight (as you could hijack an airplane with such dangerous weapon!), what can you argue? Sometime ago a Brazilian Paraglider returnig to Brazil from USA was arrested just for being sarcastic about the excessive staff's concerns on the check in. After making him open all his luggage and after opening the entire parachute on airport's lobby (!), they kept retaining him with lots of questions. Affraid of loosing his flight - and irritated - he simply said: - "Yes, you are right: This bunch of fabric is not what it seems, it's a Bomb!". He said that expected laughs, funny guy. He kept arrested 3 months and got deported with a warning: - "Don't ever mess with Amerika, boy!". Sad Times we're living. You must be comprehensive, a terrorist could kill everyone in the Plane with a Bass Solo! This is why I always use a Flight Case... juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 209 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 3:04 pm:    Well, I was considering bringing a flight case, but the size limitations are pretty intense. For Frontier, it's $75 for anything over 62 linear (W+H+L) inches. For AA it's $150! Not even my G&G case for my brown bass is under 62: it's 68. lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3316 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 5:37 pm:    I used to use "The Clam" case to fly with my acoustic. Way over the size limits - called for a $100 charge with American. I checked it and the rest of my luggage at curbside with the sidewalk luggage guys and tipped them $20. I was never charged the $100 oversize fee. Bill, tgo juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 210 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Friday, October 10, 2008 - 10:11 pm:    is gate checking a way to avoid oversize fees? keith_h Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1142 Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 6:39 am:    I can't answer that one as all of these fees are fairly new or at least the enforcement of them is. Keith rushfan Junior Username: rushfan Post Number: 38 Registered: 9-2008 Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 8:18 am:    its been mentioned before, i would get insurance, or, as a plan b, have a gig bag and a case, so if you have to put it in the hold, you can go to your car and get the case.(sorry if this sounds stupid, just a idea) juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 214 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 8:27 am:    Yeh, but as per the new fees (as mentioned before), does this mean that I will have to pay $75 every time I gate check it in the case? juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 215 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 8:36 am:    Hmmmm, I wonder if I should unbolt the neck of my Stingray and bring that carry-on rushfan Junior Username: rushfan Post Number: 39 Registered: 9-2008 Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2008 - 9:46 am:    thats an idea! fmm Advanced Member Username: fmm Post Number: 234 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 10:27 am:    Buy an Ashbory. new2alembic Member Username: new2alembic Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2008 Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:28 pm:    This has been a very interesting thread. The Alembic family is, really that, a family. There are disagreements, arguments, and even insults. But in the end; everyone seems to come together in peace. I am new to this family, but I truly feel the love. I wish the world could be more like this: tolerant, understanding, respectful, and forgiving. Juggernaught were you really ever planning a trip? Or did you just start this thread to generate some lively discussion? You succeeded with the latter. By the way, one individual can make or break your travel plans. Anyone with any authority perceived or real can effectively alter your flight plans. I have experienced this first hand. However, Frontier Airlines gets a good report card from Perseus, LLC their DIP: "We are impressed by Frontier's excellent employees and friendly customer service, as well as the numerous product characteristics that distinguish Frontier from its competitors. Industry data supports our conclusion that when given a choice, the majority of coach travelers prefer Frontier over the competitive options," Brian Leitch, Senior Managing Director of Perseus. With that said, maybe they will go out of their way to accommodate their customers. I know that this unsolicited information, maybe someone will find it helpful. Peace to you all Uncle Carl juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 216 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 12:42 pm:    No, I'm really going on a trip (tomorrow, actually). I've decided to perform an experiment: I'm going to unbolt the neck of my stingray (are there any issues with this?) and put it in my gig bag. I'm going to see if i can get through like that. If not, i will fold the gigbag along with the neck. This was I will have a better reference wrt Frontier without putting any of my basses at risk. -devon lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3318 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 1:59 pm:    Devon: Cool experiement. Be sure to give us a report on the results. I can imagine one potential problem with this method, unless you are also sending some luggage underneath. If you are only bringing carry on bags, the airline may not let you bring a screwdriver on board, (that you'll need to put it back together). A couple of years ago I was flying with my Hofner Shorty (small travel guitar) and, after putting it through the x-ray machine, they made me pull out the truss rod adjustment tool and leave it behind. I guess they didn't want another of those pesky "take this plane to Cuba or I'll adjust your truss rod - by the way, does it go clockwise or counterclockwise?" situations. Bill, tgo juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 217 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Monday, October 13, 2008 - 3:04 pm:    yeh, i definitely thought about that. that's why i'm going to take it apart before i go to the airport and then pretend that its one piece when i get there. bsee Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2050 Registered: 3-2004 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 9:53 am:    I suspect there will be tools at the family homestead when he gets there, Bill. I appreciate that some airlines do have a "we will allow guitars of any size if they fit in the overhead" rule, but I'm not sure your experiment will provide you the information you describe. Since so much is left up to the discretion of the gate and flight crews, I wouldn't bet on one or two experiences providing a picture of what will always happen going forward. On top of that, how full the flight is can alter the picture. Finally, I'm not sure what you're planning to do with the strings or any internal wrapping, but you might want to put a thin foam or bubble wrap on the neck and body inside the bag. I wouldn't want the neck, body and strings moving separately inside the bag to create scratches or worse. juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 218 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - 4:20 pm:    Bob: what I can do is provide any factors/variables that I find important at the time: airline, airport, mood of the staff, fullness of flight, time, etc. thanks on the bubble wrap idea. I will certainly do something like that. -devon jacko Senior Member Username: jacko Post Number: 1952 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:23 am:    Marginally 'on topic'. While I was waiting for some glue to dry yesterday I caught 10 minutes of 'Airline US' on the box. in the scene I saw, a lady traveller was deemed by the check in staff to have had 1 too many to drink so she was told she couldn't fly that day. At this point she became very abusive and ended up getting herself arrested (for swearing at the check in girl) and spent the night in a cell. Just goes to prove the comments above regarding the powers of any member of airport staff. Graeme. pauldo Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 69 Registered: 6-2006 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 9:55 am:    I think Uncle Carl hit it on the head "respect" - it is a rare commodity in today's world. Respect here (this group), respect at the airport, respect on the roads,,, everywhere - we need more of it. F.Y.I. Uncle Carl - "tolerant, understanding, respectful, and forgiving" kinda describes what a good bassist is!!! ;-) byoung Senior Member Username: byoung Post Number: 1097 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 10:36 am:    Bill, While screwdrivers used to be banned (and the liquid variety still are, if they are over 100mL ), they are now allowed by the TSA, provided they are less than 7 inches in length. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm The airline does not check your bags (but can!), so as long as you're not carrying in the open, you should be good to go once you make it through TSA. Bradley juggernaught Advanced Member Username: juggernaught Post Number: 219 Registered: 3-2007 Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 8:00 pm:    Well, didn't get to try the experiment... the bag wasn't going to fold in the event of having to do so... I did get to go to planetbass and try some sweet basses though. The MKs were probably the best looking basses I'm ever seen: the layers on the cocobolo one were amazing and the spalted maple topped one was just beautiful. Both sounded superb. The fretless massacar ebony essence was probably the best sounding fretless I've ever played. Also got to try out a Fodera emperor deluxe (my first Fodera). Very impressive. poor_nigel Senior Member Username: poor_nigel Post Number: 573 Registered: 7-2003 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 12:38 pm:    What a great posting! Better than the news or some soap opera. I believe the intensity of those posting will drive the information listed much deeper into those who read it than bland listings at the airlines and TSA sites. I did enjoy reading this thread. BTW: I use flight cases exclusively, as my basses are worth the added hassle of their weight and bulk to me. To each their own. Flying has changed soooo much in the last decade that I refuse to fly any more. Moo! Side Note: "don't forget to lock the latches" I am sure Keith means to make sure the latches are closed. However, if your latches do have locks on them, do not lock them, unless TSA has pre-checked the case and sealed it. TSA has the right to do so, and they will, take a crow bar and open your case for inspection. No flight case is TSA proof, if TSA wants to open it . . . keith_h Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1145 Registered: 2-2005 Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 1:21 pm:    Thomas, My comment about locking was in regards to the gate check. At that point you have been through TSA checks and the bag goes straight down to the luggage hold. Of course you could just put some strapping tape over the latches without locking them to be sure they don't accidentally pop open. Keith lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3407 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 9:56 am:    I just got back from Key West where I went for a week to attend the NORML Legal Seminar. Having got my (new to me) '53 D-28 back from the luthier the day before Thanksgiving (after being there for 25 months), I really didn't want to leave it at home, so I brought it with me. No problem carrying it through security to the gate. (I had it in a Calton Deluxe case, so no worries if it had to go underneath). Once on the plane to Miami (767) I discovered it wouldn't fit in the overhead. A flight attendant took it from me and put it in a closet in the 1st class area. I picked it up from there at the end of the flight. Coming back I was also allowed to carry it on where it fit easily in the overhead on a 757. No problems either way. I go and spend a small fortune on the Calton case and it turns out I could have used a mere gig bag! (Of course, if I had tried a gig bag, they undoubtedly would have made me check it - Murphy's Law). Bill, tgo jack Intermediate Member Username: jack Post Number: 179 Registered: 11-2005 Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 12:58 pm:    I'm late to a long and interesting thread here, but just in to say what Bill said- 1st class coat rack. Works everytime for me (that's about twice, btw), for basses in hard cases, and longish fishing rods. It is always, of course, a crap shoot. Gotta convince the stewardess you're a rock star. pauldo Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2006 Posted on Tuesday, December 09, 2008 - 6:32 pm:    Bill! How did the NORML seminar pan out? My understanding is that the federal government is starting to let state legislation handle the 'medicinal' use laws and not getting involved as much anymore. A 1953 Martin D-28! Bet she's a beaut and probably sings like tomorrow will never come. Got any pics? lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3409 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 9:30 am:    Paul: Key West was, as always, a blast. Classes from 9-2, then free time, playing music, eating, and having a great time! As for the feds and medical cannabis, I'll believe it when I see it. Obama called for decrim a few years ago. That changed when he ran for president. Early in the campaign, speaking in front of college students, he said that he would have the DEA leave medical cannabis alone in states where it has been legalized. In the latter part of the campaign he seemed to shy away from that position. Now he is appointing longtime drug warriors to key positions. I'm not encouraged, to say the least. The Martin, on the other hand, is pure joy! When I found it in the summer of 2006, it was quite beat up. Cracks in the top, no pickguard, loose braces, a PLYWOOD!!!! bridgeplate, etc. We had to take the back off, replace the bridgeplate, stabilize the cracks, reglue braces, then replaced the bridge and fingerboard and refinished the back and sides. It was well worth it as this guitar has the straightest, narrow grained Brazilian rosewood you can imagine. It sounded great even when it was beat up. 25 months later, and I'm in love! What a beautiful tone. I didn't think about posting pics as I'd expect only minimal interest in acoustic guitars around these parts, but maybe I'll take some this weekend. Bill, tgo jet_powers Senior Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 405 Registered: 2-2003 Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2008 - 11:06 am:    Pictures of that Martin, please! A guitar is a guitar, isn't it? Especially one that's been given a new lease on life.... -JP cozmik_cowboy Advanced Member Username: cozmik_cowboy Post Number: 378 Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 2:14 pm:    I second JP on the pictures, Bill - the first guy I worked sound for full-time had a '53 D-28, and, while my taste generally runs more to 000s than dreadnaughts, I'd take one of those in a heartbeat - it was one of the amazingly drool-worthy guitars I've ever come across. Peter lbpesq Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3415 Registered: 7-2004 Posted on Thursday, December 11, 2008 - 3:20 pm:    O.K. I'll take some pics this weekend and post them in the miscellaneous section. Bill, tgo