| Author | Message | ||
| jphilauren
Junior Username: jphilauren Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2008 |
Are the pickups and electronics that are used in new Alembics the same or upgraded from the 70's and 80's? I know that there have been a few upgrades over the years that can be done to existing basses from the 80's. How do they compare to either over the counter electronics by Bartolini , EMG? or Status[ John Entwistle] which I think is one of the few companies that may make their own pickups? | ||
| oujeebass
Intermediate Member Username: oujeebass Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2002 |
The pickup are all pretty much the same. It's the electronics that differ in many ways. Most are simple eq's. The true Alembic electronics package allows the widest range of control. Some other companies have attempted to obtain control that alembics allow ,but they don't ever seem to have the pure sound. That's all in the details. I believe the only updating Alembic has done the electronics is offering a wider variety and solving interference/noise issues. I am sure other tweaks have been done, but original design intent remains. Along those lines, Alembic electronics were originally envisioned to counter acoustic response issues with the equipment/venues that ruled the day. Stuff that is now considered vintage. It was when they were used to extremes that the power of an Alembic was discovered. Discuss | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 213 Registered: 1-2008 |
All Alembic PUPs are single coil and therefore brighter than humbuckers. The Series instruments use a dummy coil (that PUP in the middle that's "broken"... LOL) to hum-cancel while the non-Series are hum-canceling by virtue of a stacked non-magentic core coil. Another difference is that Alembic PUPs are low impedance (actually, I think only the Series PUPs are low impedance???) . I don't understand the physics, but this allows the PUP to capture more of the harmonics. Thus the "richer" tone. Most (All?) other vendors electronics are some variation of traditional "tone" controls. To my way of thinking, Alembic has taken a different approach with most of their electronic packages. The low-pass filter allows the PUP to "look at" a specific part of the frequency spectrum and thus emulate the tone of virtually any other bass with a similar construction (neck-through sounds very different from bolt-on) and wood recipe (mahogany sounds different from alder). | ||
| bsee
Senior Member Username: bsee Post Number: 2133 Registered: 3-2004 |
The stronger the magnetic field of the pickup, the more impact it has on the vibration of the string. One of Alembic's design goals is to capture as close as possible to the natural vibration of the string. Look here for some pickup info: http://alembic.com/club/messages/16271/18779.html?1117034562 | ||
| white_cloud
Senior Member Username: white_cloud Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2007 |
It is to Alembics credit that, here in 2009, the electronics package on a Series is virtually identical to that of almost 40 yrs ago! Stop for a moment and contemplate the advances in technology over that period of time, the changes that have occured in the world - it makes it an even more incredible feat. It goes to show just how ahead of their time Alembic were! Certainly, relying on complicated electronics doesnt necessarily make for a great sounding bass on its own - but it really does help when coupled with the highest level of instrument construction! John. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 214 Registered: 1-2008 |
Bob I understand you to be saying that low impedance PUPs have a weak magnet/magnetic field. I believe low impedance PUPs also have fewer coil windings. That translates into lower voltage in the PUP coil and thus the need for a pre-amp to boost the signal to your amplifier. Is that correct? Is there any other feature that determines whether a PUP is "High" or "Low" impedance. Are the non-Series PUPs also low impedance? I have never really considered the effect of the magnetic field on string vibration, but I can certainly see how a strong field would dampen the weaker high frequency string vibrations (the harmonics). If you had a REALLY strong magnet, I guess your bass would have the timbre of a flute!!! This also explains why you can adjust the height on Alembic PUPs for comfort rather than tone/output. I noticed an odd phenomenon on my pre-EB MM Stingray: PUP height has a pronounced effect on my perception of string tension. I know it's not really doing anything to the tension, but what I mean is that the bass suddenly plays "easier" as the PUP is adjusted closer to the strings. This effect is not subtle and occurs rather dramatically as you make minute adjustments to the PUP height. Interestingly, I've not noticed this dramatic an effect on my EB MM Stingray or any of my other basses. Any explanation??? | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 3476 Registered: 7-2004 |
All Alembic pickups, Series or non-Series, are low impedance. Bill, tgo | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 216 Registered: 1-2008 |
Thanks Bill. So what is the difference between the Series and non-Series PUPs? There is obviously something else going on since an external power supply is required. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 786 Registered: 5-2006 |
Check the pickup info again Be sure to not miss the "dummy humcancelling pickup" part ;-) | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 217 Registered: 1-2008 |
OK, I read it again and rearranged things: All the non-Series Alembic pickups are stacked humcancelling pickups (one magnetic core coil on top and one non-magentic core coil beneath). However, the proximity of the air coil to the magnets of the pickup will cause a weak signal to be induced, thus the non-magnetic coil is not a true "dummy" coil. In a Series bass, the hum canceling "dummy" coil is physically located away from the pickup magnets allowing you to perfectly cancel the hum with minimal effect on the single coil sound. Now I see the difference. However, I suspect there is still more going on. If it were this simple, it seems you would simply not stack the coils (move the non-magnetic coil away from the magnetic coil) on a non-Series instrument. It also doesn't explain why the Series instruments are "power hogs" (does the "dummy" coil require power?). | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1197 Registered: 2-2005 |
There are differences in the preamps. The Series preamp is the gold standard. The others are very good and have been voiced to maintain the Alembic sound but there is a difference if you listen to the two side by side. Keep in mind that there are cost points being addressed by the different pickups and corresponding electronics. There is a definite cost savings by going with the hum canceling pickups in both the electronics and physical routing/wiring not to mention fewer preamp components. As far as the power requirements there is much more to the Series preamp electronics as opposed to the other preamps. The additional components require more power. On a side note I believe that Alembic has built instruments with the hum canceling pickups and Series electronics. This just goes to show you can order just about any configuration if Ron has the time and you are willing to pay for it. Keith | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 218 Registered: 1-2008 |
Just thinking out loud... It seems like you would want the single coil/dummy coil set-up in all the packages. You could rout everything for Series electronics, but "drop in" whatever package you wanted. Does the single coil/dummy coil set-up really cost that much more to manufacture? I've seen several basses with what was described as a "non-functional" dummy coil in anticipation of converting to Series electronics at a later date. Is there a reason you can't use single coil/dummy coil with non-Series electronics? | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1198 Registered: 2-2005 |
There is more to the Series 1 prep than just routing a hole for the dummy pickup. Depending upon the model there is also the need to make the body thicker to contain the Series 1 electronics. Take your green SC for example. If it is the standard or deluxe SC model it is not thick enough to add Series electronics. The Brown Bass however does have a thick enough body in it's standard configuration to hold Series electronics. As a rule all of the Fender'ish body styles also need additional thickness to use Series electronics. IMO another reason not to add a dummy pickup is aesthetics. Why cover up a lot of beautiful wood for something you are not going to need? If you make all instruments use the single coil/dummy coil you lose a price point and a major differentiator between models. To do this and be effective you would need to add all of the circuitry to tune the dummy coil. This adds to the cost and size of the preamps and essentially makes them Series electronics. Can it be done? Yes. Is it desirable from a product line standpoint? Not to me. Lastly keep in mind that Series electronics are not just dropped into an instrument and shipped. Ron takes each one and tailors it to the instrument. This is not the case with the other electronics packages and instruments. Keith | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 220 Registered: 1-2008 |
I had never noticed that my Series I body was thicker than the other two!!! I don't think I've ever fully appreciated the differences between the Series I and say the Signature electronics. To a lay person (like me), it looks like you just added an extra boost for the Q switches, added a volume for each PUP, and removed the balance control. There is obviously MUCH more going on than that. I think I would have to get an EE degree to really understand it to the degree I would like. Unfortunately, I cant handle the math!!! I appreciate everyone's attempts to "walk me through" these details. I understand it better than I did before. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 7325 Registered: 5-2002 |
As Keith mentioned, Ron calibrates the Series electronics to the specific instrument, which is why in the FTC section you'll see a number of pictures of nearly finished Series instruments with masking tape holding in the hum canceler; they're waiting in line for bench time. And it can take time; I think Mica said that it took him three tries to get mine right. |
