| Author | Message | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2003 |
Looking for an authorized dealer that will discount! I loved the Aug. '03 custom special "east meets west", but can't get a decent price form the dealer that has it. I'm looking for a dealer that discounts heavily to order a similar bass from. Any suggestions? FYI, I can afford this and/or a much more expensive instrument. I simply want the best bang for the buck (buyer's market advantage in a week economy). BTW, I bought a NEW Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Elegant (not a BLEM)from an authorized dealer this spring and got a killer deal ($5,700MSRP for $2,500, incl. s&h, OEM case and tax). Looking for "similar savings" on a new Alembic (or the best I can get). Am I dreaming? | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1127 Registered: 6-2000 |
Most of the dealers/customers I speak with report that 15% is a typical discount on Alembics, I rarely hear higher. There's no way you're going to find a deal like you describe on a new Alembic, as that would below dealer cost. Sometimes you can find a new piece in a shop that's been on display a while. Those instruments will be less expensive because they were bought at old prices. Other than that, I'd say you'll have to dream about deep discounts on new Alembics. | ||
| bonesrad
Junior Username: bonesrad Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2002 |
Bass Northwest in Seattle is a great place to buy a new Alembic through. Give them a call or drop them an email regarding what you might want. Bones | ||
| kayo
Junior Username: kayo Post Number: 15 Registered: 10-2002 |
Dude - that's not what Alembics are all about. When you get the Best of the Best (5 star restaurants, 5 star spas, a Rolls Royce, a higher end BMW or Lamborghini) it's tacky to even ask for a discount - and you are likely not to get it anyways. Alembics are not production line instruments... they don't crank 'em out by the hundreds like that. Decide what you want, tweak it out to your hearts content (wood, electronics, body shape, dimensions, hardware, artwork - etc) then place your order and just be glad it's an Alembic. 15% off is a bargain if you ask me. Otherwise, just surf e-bay and see if you can't get an older one in bad shape if you really don't want to spend that much. | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 70 Registered: 5-2002 |
I buy all my gear (including two Series Alembics) from the guys at Larry Morgan Music - the guys that designed the East-meets-West Alembic. I can't imagine that any dealer can beat their prices on the same Alembic and still make money on the deal. There are no "bad" Alembic dealers, the folks in Santa Rosa won't allow it. The only difference in price you'll find around the country is going to depend on the overhead that the shop has to cover. Alembic has never been a "bang-for-the-buck" type instrument. It's just straight BANG. Good luck finding the right bass for you... C-Ya.............wayne | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanx for all the input. For the record, Larry Morgan wanted $3400 for the "east meets west" bass ($4,139MSRP). SuperBass.net wanted $3300 for a new Alembic 5-string ($5050MSRP) as posted on a no-auction, buy-for this-price EBAY sale - nice instrument too - they offer most of their newly-shipped Alembics on Ebay as well for similar deals. Which would you say is a better deal? While you are certainly entitled to your opinion (KAYO), I respectfully disagree: Call me tacky, but I dicker on everything, and I only buy new, premium goods. You would cringe to hear what (little amount) I paid for my high-end BMW (they can't give 'em away!). This is a buyer's economy...there is a deal available on everything, if you have the patience to look. Have you tried to buy a Harley in recent years? List plus hi mark-up (if you could get a bike) until recently..now you have your choice some at a discount off list! Seriously, I realize no one is in business to give things away. I am certainly not rich, but I am single with no bills and have a fairly high disposable income. I simply want the best posible price on everything I buy. | ||
| kayo
Junior Username: kayo Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well then - by all means - knock yourself out. | ||
| valvil
Moderator Username: valvil Post Number: 178 Registered: 7-2002 |
In regards to which instrument is a better deal, well, it all depends on weather you want a 4 or a 5 string. "East Meets West" has some very interesting custom electronics and a gorgeous & very expensive 5A quilt maple top, while the five string ( I assume it's the zebrawood orion) has side leds, which are nice, and mother of pearl inlays. Either way I don't think you can go wrong, they are both stunning instruments. Valentino | ||
| jorge_s
Junior Username: jorge_s Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2002 |
I guess it is just a case of supply vs. demand. The "east meets west" bass was the featured custom. It is a bass that caught the attention of a lot of people. One might say it is "unique" or at least "something new". Why would the seller discount something that people would be willing to pay full retail for? I really doubt the BMW dealer is discounting a lot on the very limited edition Z8. If you see the value in something, especially something that is very rare, I don't think you should view it solely as an oportunity to get a bargain. Then again this is just my opinion and I could be wrong. | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2003 |
You all have your points, and I thank you all for your input. BTW, Superbass.net has three new Alembic basses posted on Ebay, all very nice for similar prices. While I agree that Alembics are absolutely among the finest basses available (I wouldn't consider one if I thought otherwise), we are not talking about a Ferrari Enzo or the million-dollar vintage Hemi here. A $4000 bass from a company that produces instruments in the mid to high teens isn't exactly a Z-8 either. Larry Morgan claims that "east meets west" has been on their site since April (despite this being the Aug. Custom of the month). While it certainly is unique (among Alembics)- I absolutely loved it when I first saw it - they'll build another one just like it if they get an order for another one. If Larry Morgan wants to sit on that bass for another half year waiting for their price, then that's their choice. I'll find someone, like Superbass.net or Ed Roman or whoever will do the best deal to order it from (or I may buy one they have in stock, we'll see). Then I'll spend the money I saved on a bass cabinet or a tube amp (Eden comes to mind), or put it towards another instrument. Jorge, You are absolutely right about supply and demand: anyone who has a supply of premium "luxury" goods (a premium instrument is not a 'necessity' for those of us that aren't pro musicians) is dying to sell because the demand during a weak economy is simply just not there. While perceived value is certainly important (I'd much rather have an Alembic than say a USA Lakland or Custom Shop Fender), the resale on even these great instruments is not quite so great (about half of retail, according to my local Alembic dealer). In my opinion, this makes getting the best possible deal all the more important. For those of you that have GAS (gear aquisition syndrome) and/or trade/change instruments often, you know what I'm talking about. | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 71 Registered: 5-2002 |
This really is great - a difference of opinion without any animosity. What a concept. In defense of Larry Morgan - I actually played the East-meets-West bass in May. So, their claim is true. Not all the featured customs are instruments that have just been completed. My take on the resale of Alembics is that there are more players who don't like playing Alembic than there are those of us who love it. Remember, there have only been around 14,000 Alembics built since 1972. Put that with the fact that a high percentage of Alembics are custom built, and you get a low resale market. There are features on my basses that I paid a high premium for that would mean absolutely nothing to another player. A "good deal" to me is getting what I want for the price I'm willing to pay. Does that mean I pay more that someone else (like Kevin) - probably. But I will pay a premium for service and convenience and in the case of my Alembics, to get exactly what I want. C-Ya.............wayne | ||
| bassman10096
Junior Username: bassman10096 Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2003 |
I can appreciate each viewpoint about how "hard" to shop a deal and one's standards and strategy for finding an acceptable deal. I shop and negotiate for a living and enjoy both the analysis and "the thrill of the chase" (after the "best-possible" price and terms). Equally, I often enough blow through that reasoning and spend "too much" for an item that makes me weak in the knees (like some Alembics on any particular day). Dealer discounts vary according to lots of factors, for sure. That said, I'd point out another big cost factor in buying an Alembic: The really big difference among the value impacts of Alembic's own monthly specials on the retail price for a particular custom or (presumably) off the shelf model. I am planning a custom build in the near future and know what features I'm looking for. For the bass and options I'm looking to own, the difference in retail price depending on the particular monthly special in effect when I order, can vary up to about 14% of retail. Practically, this represents a variance between specials that net me nothing I'm interested in (no gain), the "average" special (more than half of the previous specials fall in this category - worth roughly $500 against retail) and a few "homerun" specials like 20% of instrument value off the cost of options. A list of previous year's specials, the months they have appeared and the frequency with which they have occurred is linked to each month's special page on the Alembic site. Happy shopping for those analytic types out there! I'll probably get the fever and knuckle under in the wrong month because the fever strikes hard... Bill | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, Wayne. Good Points. There's no animosity inferred, nor is any taken by me. We're all in about the same boat: We all love music and great instruments. I'm passionate about all I do, and I imagine most of you all are too. I appreciate the finer things in life, but I wasn't born rich, nor am I rich now (what's the old saying...champagne taste, beer pocketbook? LOL!). As such, I try to do the best I can for the money I can spend. I have to admit, it does provide a sense of satisfaction when I get a killer deal on something I really wanted. Conversely, it burns my a** to pay a premium for something, only to turn around and have it worth pennies if you need to get rid of it. I've been playing guitar and bass on/off for 26yrs, and still have every decent instrument I've ever purchased (some more than 22yrs.). In the past, I could only afford to buy mass-market production guitars like Guild and USA Fender. Now I can afford the better stuff, so I'm going for it! Obviously, merchants need to make a fair profit if they are to stay in business. I'm just looking to pad their coffers as little as possible, LOL! | ||
| kipknee
Junior Username: kipknee Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2002 |
Just thought I'd drop my 2 cents worth here. While I agree that finding the best deal is important, but maybe you should put some energy into finding the best instrument for your needs. Deciding that you want an Alembic simply because it's a prestigious name (probably like you did your BMW) is not a sufficient reason for seeking one out. Which models have you played? What did you like or dislike about each model? Did it fit your style of playing and/or your current gig needs? These are all things that need to be resolved before you even look at the price tag. I've owned three Alembics (plus about 2 dozen other basses) in my life. Two of these Alembics were the best instruments that I've ever played. The third one was so inappropriate for me that I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. As far as the deal(s) that you got on other things, it's irrelevant. I've gotten some great deals too, but I don't leave the price tag on the instrument. Since I'm a player, the deal is secondary to the quality of the instrument and the music that I can make on it. | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2003 |
Bob, All good points and I'm in agreement with you. I pretty much know exactly what I want: A high-end Jazz-bass style instrument. That's why I wanted that particular model (Orion 4 "East meets West). I've demo'd Lakland USA, Fender, Music Man, Fodera, Pedulla, Modulus and some others (including Alembic). I've always wanted an Alembic, but couldn't afford it in the past. BTW, I've wanted a BMW since I was a teenager and BEFORE there was such a thing as a yuppie. I'm 40 and it took until I was 37 until I could afford a new one (I had used ones before). I could have bought virtually any car (short of an exotic) with what I can afford, but I bought a Bimmer because it was exactly what I wanted, not because of the name. I rode Japanese for 13yrs. before I could afford the new Harley I wanted for all that time. As far as the price tag issue, it's only important to me when I purchase and has only been brought out to illustrate my point(s). Quality is what it's all about - I'm like everyone else, I want the best of everything - but with a limited pocketbook, money is certainly an object. | ||
| dean_m
Intermediate Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 185 Registered: 7-2002 |
Oh hear we go again, He had to mention Harleys!!!! LOL Hey Kevin, I do agree that we are all in the same boat when it comes to finding the best deal possible. There is no disagreement here!!! But, I do remember going to the Mercedes dealer with my friend. They politely laughed at him when he tried to negotiate the finance rate. Most people that are buying a $60-70k car don't "worry" about the financing. Needless to say we walked out. Regarding Harley (Yep, here we go Brother Paul) It's a whole different issue. Up until 2 years ago, Harley production was held to a lean to produce a demand. The dealers took advantage of this and started gouging the customers. Hence the $3-4K markup over list. Harley requested that they stop doing it due to customer complaints. When they refused to stop. Harley increased production flooding the market and the dealers with new bikes, killing the used market and the leftover market. Now people are asking, well why should I buy your used bike for $11,000 when I can buy a brand new one for $13,000!! It's funny your bring that up because I am having a hard time selling one of my Harleys because of that. My other question is this. Is Superbass.net and Ed Roman a "brick and mortar" retail site like Larry Morgan, where they have a lease and overhead to pay or are they a "Web Retailer"? This might explain their ability to discount a little more. Either way, best of luck to you on your quest. We are all here to help and sometimes debate each others needs!!!! Now, anybody looking for a killer deal on a 1989 Harley Softail!!!! LOL | ||
| davehouck
Intermediate Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 147 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dean; if memory serves, I believe it was mentioned here once in the past that one of the requirements to become an Alembic distributor is a "brick and mortar" storefront. I could be wrong, my memory is not all that reliable. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 612 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Paul the fake one/the artist formerly known as Dino. Glad you survived Isabel! Now THE QUESTION?? (Now I'm REALLY embarrased) ... what's a "softail" Harley? A Harley with a soft tail? I didn't know they had tails. Brother Kevin, agian a question of mine I should be ashamed to ask but ...what's a Bimmer??? Sorry guys but my US lingo is not always enough to follow the conversation going on. Paul the bad one (Message edited by palembic on September 19, 2003) | ||
| dean_m
Intermediate Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 186 Registered: 7-2002 |
Dave, Now that you mention that, I think you may be right!! My apology if I misled anyone. However Superbass.net only advertises a P.O. box on their website which I thought was peculiar Anyway, Brother Paul, to answer your question. A Softail is a model of bike that Harley builds. The rear suspension and shocks are hidden underneath the bike giving it the look of a custom built chopper without a rear suspension. Just a wheel mounted to the frame. They call these "hardtails". Because the Harleys do have a suspension, they were named "Soft"ails by HD. And if I may answer for Kevin, a Bimmer is slang for a BMW here in the states. http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/2004/04_template.asp?bmLocale=nl_BE&nickname=Dean&market=BE&family=Softail&model=FXST&modelSection=intro Oh yeah, it's just raining here in Boston Paul. Not bad at all. I hope everyone south of us is okay though!!! Peace, Dino | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2003 |
Paul: A softail is a bike family (Harley makes only four different families - Softail, Touring, Dyna and Sportster - the various models are mix and and match parts variants of those basic families). It is a bike with a hidden rear suspension that mimics the look of old "hardtail" bikes (i.e., no rear suspension - rigid frame attached directly to the rear wheel/axle) - vintage Harley's from 1903 all the way up untill the 1950's. For example, a "Fatboy" is a Softail family variant. Did I confuse you sufficiently? I ride a Road King (Touring family). A Bimmer is a BMW car (as opposed to a Beemer, which is a BMW motorcycle) - as defined by the BMWCCA/BMWMOA (i.e., BMW car and bike clubs of America, respectively). It's great to see all of you have a good sense of humor. Wow, I started a whole bunch of sh*t by asking where I could get a discounted Alembic, huh? LOL! As an aside, did anyone catch Steely Dan this tour? I saw them at PNC in NJ this Aug. and at the Roseland in NYC last week. Tom Barney was AWESOME (besides being a bassist extraordinaire, he's also this tour's music director) - doesn't play Alembic, though, LOL!. | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2003 |
Wayne: I was so busy shootin' the b.s., I forgot to ask you: How was the "East meets West" Orion 4? Since I caused quite a fervor over it, what did it play/sound/look like? | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 113 Registered: 4-2003 |
Kevin, I haven't played the "EMW" patched in, so I can't comment on the sound. But I have held it and played it dry on a number of occasssions while waiting for one thing or another at Larry Morgan. It's extremely light and comfortable, both sitting and standing. The neck is narrow, fast and very straight. The wood is something else, quilted maple still freaks me out. How something two dimensional can look 3D is baffling. The photos in the feature article fall short. As usual, another example of great Alembic craftsmanship. The controls are similar to what you'd find on the Eurpoa/Rogue, albeit the respective boost/cut switches have been replaced by knobs. I own an Orion with Europa elecs and can get anything from almost fretless to an in-your-face, big, fat bottom tone. The low pass filter is sweet. I don't know what the controls would do for the JZ p-ups on this model, but I would venture to say it would be like a Jazz on steriods. Maybe Wayne can shed some light on that for you. Mike | ||
| kmh364
New Username: kmh364 Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, Mike. As I'm looking to order one just like it, any info I can get helps greatly. Since it has an Ash body, similar to a Fender (albeit with a Gibson LP-like top maple laminate), I assumed it would be reasonably light. As I suffer from low back pain (many years), light makes right! I bought a chambered (i.e., hollowed-out under the maple top) Les Paul for that very reason. | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2003 |
Then you'd like the combination. I traded in an American Custom Jazz Deluxe for my Orion. Small body, ash wood. This Orion is as close to that "Jazz-feel" as you can get. The elbow rollover and tummy cut are not as pronounced as a Fender would be, but I've seen where Alembic has accommodated others buyers in that respect. If body weight is a concern, they'd chamber that out for you as well, as long as neck balance doesn't become an issue. The upper horn on the Orion is nice and long and gives you some options other body styles wouldn't. Good luck, I'd love to experience the agony of "The Wait", LOL. Mike | ||
| kmh364
Junior Username: kmh364 Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2003 |
Thanks, Mike. As I'm looking to order one just like it, any info I can get helps greatly. Since it has an Ash body, similar to a Fender (albeit with a Gibson LP-like top maple laminate), I assumed it would be reasonably light. As I suffer from low back pain (many years), light makes right! I bought a chambered (i.e., hollowed-out under the maple top) Les Paul for that very reason. |
