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Alembic Club » Alembic Basses & Guitars » Archive through January 07, 2011 » Archive: 2009 » Archive through August 16, 2009 » Alembic Versus Fender « Previous Next »

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funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 449
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 10:33 am:   Edit Post

Will this be America's next Civil War?

Active versus Passive

Direct-to-Board versus Amped/Miked

Bolt-on versus Neck-thru
fc_spoiler
Senior Member
Username: fc_spoiler

Post Number: 924
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post

Alembic and Fender:

hieronymous
Senior Member
Username: hieronymous

Post Number: 620
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 11:52 am:   Edit Post

ditto

telembic
briant
Advanced Member
Username: briant

Post Number: 347
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 1:00 pm:   Edit Post

Who cares? Seriously.
jeffbass4
Junior
Username: jeffbass4

Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 4:32 pm:   Edit Post

Is this somehow sacriledge to one or the other? :-) But is there an Alembic with a set of stock Jazz pick-ups?? Just thought I'd ask....
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8343
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 8:20 pm:   Edit Post

Jeff; there was a recent discussion on the same issue as the title of this thread, and many of our members found that the course of that discussion became rather unpleasant. Brian's post above may be a reflection of the fact that many here probably don't want to see the more negative aspects of that previous thread resurrected. I doubt Brian was referring to the two basses pictured above, both of which are rather cool.
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 747
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 8:55 pm:   Edit Post

Since the electronics and pickups in my '78 series one guitar are in need of repair, I currently have a gibson S-1 pickup, a G&L MFD, and a strat pickup in it (using the humcanceling cavity for the MFD).

So there is at least one downgraded Alembic around.
Still plays like an Alembic...it just sounds like a really cool Gibson/G&L/Strat hybrid.

At some point I plan to bring her back to being pure again : )
briant
Advanced Member
Username: briant

Post Number: 348
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2009 - 10:46 pm:   Edit Post

"I doubt Brian was referring to the two basses pictured above, both of which are rather cool."

You are correct, sir. I've actually thought really seriously about doing a hybrid Mike Lull M4 jazz bass with Alembic pickups.

I believe it is completely pointless to discuss/argue why one anything is better than another. Due to the nature of the human race odds are exceptionally high that someone out there is not going to like something you absolutely love. And vice versa.

Better conversation could be had talking about why you like a particular something so much. What makes it so great in your eye? What sets it apart from the other options that made you choose it? Etc... It's not better for everyone, it was just better for you.
57basstra
Senior Member
Username: 57basstra

Post Number: 1025
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 12:14 am:   Edit Post

Tonight out of the blue I played my Guild "The Lance" Burnside offset Flying V bass with Alembic pickups (as shown in profile pic.) What a great sound!

This was my first "Alembic" and made me want to buy more; but this one is not to be overlooked. It has its own unique voice.

I look at musical instruments as if they are kinda like people. Each one has its own place.

(Message edited by 57basstra on July 09, 2009)
chrisalembic
Junior
Username: chrisalembic

Post Number: 41
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 1:54 am:   Edit Post

"I look at musical instruments as if they are kinda like people. Each one has its own place."

That sums it up for me. Well said, David!!
hendixclarke
Senior Member
Username: hendixclarke

Post Number: 830
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 6:54 am:   Edit Post

Why should I have to look at Fenders here???

Just kidding... NO I AM NOT KIDDING...

Just Kidding... NO I AM NOT...

Just Kidding... [GAGGED - and CAN'T SPEAK]
:-)
jeffbass4
Junior
Username: jeffbass4

Post Number: 27
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 8:22 am:   Edit Post

Dave, my post was really more in jest. I saw the other post and didn't like the negativity either. People have opinions and I say to each their own. From the post about the Mike Lull hybrid, can you just use the Alembic pick-ups with existing electronics or do you need the whole electronics package? Sorry, don't know how that works on these...
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8345
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 9:47 am:   Edit Post

Jeff; because the pickups are low impedance, they work best with Alembic electronics.
gtrguy
Advanced Member
Username: gtrguy

Post Number: 233
Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post

Flip: Fender prodigys rock.
southpaw
Advanced Member
Username: southpaw

Post Number: 230
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 10:38 am:   Edit Post

I love both... I have an old P & Jazz bass both with flat wounds strings for that old motown, jazz, blues sound and I have two Alembics with round wounds. Best of both worlds, apples & oranges...
sonicus
Intermediate Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 169
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 11:24 am:   Edit Post

I LOVE MY ALEMBIC BASS'S __ They sound the best_ :but here is my Confession ___ My 1980 maple neck ,ash body ,USA Fender Jazz Bass has Bartolini 9W4 pickups (wired passive) and a Schaller bridge and graphite nut ; It's just a tool in my tool box of Bass's_______

There we have it____just another tool to make 'em happy__
for just another crazy bird__

(Message edited by sonicus on July 10, 2009)
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 450
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 2:31 pm:   Edit Post

See...

We can all get along!
briant
Advanced Member
Username: briant

Post Number: 349
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 2:53 pm:   Edit Post

"From the post about the Mike Lull hybrid, can you just use the Alembic pick-ups with existing electronics or do you need the whole electronics package?"

Activators, baby.

If I ever did it I'd get the Activators and then have Mike build me a bass and install them straight away.
dnburgess
Senior Member
Username: dnburgess

Post Number: 636
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 2:55 pm:   Edit Post

Vive la difference.
tmoney61092
Intermediate Member
Username: tmoney61092

Post Number: 143
Registered: 9-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 3:16 pm:   Edit Post

you can use alembic electronics with other pickups, i have tried this and it worked, also, i put an alembic p in my Ibanez to make sure it worked, passive bass no other pickups on, tone control counterclockwise, sounded amazing, so it's your call
glocke
Senior Member
Username: glocke

Post Number: 604
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 3:51 pm:   Edit Post

I started out on jazz basses, but after playing alembics I really have a hard time going back to them.

As to Alembic vs Fender, Im not going to get into that, except to say that I know many people who swear by fender jazz and p-basses, but they also have their basses tricked out with replacement pups and badass bass bridges...
georgie_boy
Senior Member
Username: georgie_boy

Post Number: 861
Registered: 8-2005
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 5:22 am:   Edit Post

I play a 75 Fender P bass now at most of my gigs.
I've got a 76 Series 1....but get too scared to take her out to some of the redneck places we play. I get a thrill from both of them!!
They both do the job perfectly!!!...just sound different!
dnburgess
Senior Member
Username: dnburgess

Post Number: 637
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 6:10 am:   Edit Post

A question for you guys with Fenders with Alembic pickups. What do they sound like compared to regular Fenders? Alembics?
dannobasso
Senior Member
Username: dannobasso

Post Number: 1056
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 7:09 am:   Edit Post

When I was 15 I started out as a Gibson guy for no other reason than the guys I played with had Les Pauls. Not being able to afford a LP bass I got a Ripper. I then bought a hybrid fretless bass that had a Fender neck on it. That neck moved more than anything I've ever encountered so I replaced it with a Kubiki one, new emg's badass 2 bridge, Schaler tuners and I was off. In 1983 I scrounged, scrimped and saved for a BC Rich Mockingbird bass but was disappointed and then got my Spoiler. ($900.00 no case 1983) I must say it was the beginning of an addiction that continues to this very day as I'm have another Alembic built. I do enjoy my Korean Equire Scorpion, Japanese Strat with Fernandez Sustainer and American Strat Deluxe with emgs. ( I always replace the tuners with sperzels and the pickups)

At this stage of life all the gear head distraction is only needed in small doses for me. Out there in the wide world, who the h-e double hockey sticks really cares? Get out there, play, created, entertain or simply be a weekend warrior and experience the joy of playing your instrument in the basement, garage or whatever. You worked for these instruments, enjoy the fruits of your labor and play. Every manufacturer has their following and devotees. I'm a fan of other makes, just not a fanatic like I am for Alembic. There is space in my collection for Ovation, Gibson, ESP, Stambaugh, Warwick, Hamer, BC Rich and Fender (just no basses as of well, forever but never say never right)
Life is so fleeting and the precious time we actually get to spend in contentment and joy is even more limited. So my prayer for all in this community is to be happy, make music, hopefully make some sort of cash from it if you can and let me know where your cds can be purchased and I'll do my best to support you.


(I can actually get Fenders at cost through a friend and still don't have a Jazz)
bracheen
Senior Member
Username: bracheen

Post Number: 1474
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 9:15 am:   Edit Post

Funkyjazzjunky, you left one subject off the list;
Tubes vs. solid state
chalie_holmes
Intermediate Member
Username: chalie_holmes

Post Number: 108
Registered: 3-2009
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 9:20 am:   Edit Post

Yo Danno,
succintly, and elegantly stated!
Much Love to ya brother of the low frequencies!
Chalie
lbpesq
Senior Member
Username: lbpesq

Post Number: 3991
Registered: 7-2004
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post

Tubes vs. Solid State?

Until recently I would have been as strongly opinionated on this one as the Polish engineer who recently posted on another thread how Alembics suck. Now I'm talking guitar amps, not bass amps which are a different animal altogether. After 40 years of swearing by tubes only, I recently tried a Pritchard Amp. HOLY TRANSISTORS BATMAN!!!! This thing really rocks. It not only sounds like a tube amp, it sounds like a killer tube amp, actually several killer tube amps. (Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa, Acoustic, etc.) Combo 1x12 with two horns that kick in when you set it in the "acoustic" mode. Variable wattage from a few to 90 clean, 180 dirty. Built in attenuator for practice and bedroom play. Weighs less than 35 pounds!!!! At the recent Alembic Northern California Gathering, Ken's brother brought his Marshall double stack. My little amp sitting on a chair looked ridiculous next to the British Behemoth. Yet, at the end of the day, Ken's brother came over to tell me how good my amp sounded. (As did a couple of other attendees). I never thought I'd ever say this, but I'm now convinced that solid state can work.

Bill, tgo
tubeperson
Member
Username: tubeperson

Post Number: 74
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post

I remember Bob Carver, then with Carver Corporation, created a stereo amplifier that sounded like a tube amp for home stereo use. At the end of the day, the editdor and staff of Stereophile magazine conceded that Mr. Carver was successful. So why does he still use tubes to this day? I suspect that over a long listening period, you begin to sense annoying distortions through solid state that you do not hear through tube equipment. It reminds us as to why over time CD's sounded harsh as compared to LP's.

I use both, just when push comes to shove the tubes win the day. ust my vote, no wrong or right here
sonicus
Intermediate Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 172
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post

The 'harsh CD issue has many variables in the equation.
The Quality of the "Analog to Digital Converter" and the resolution. is a large part of the equation . Regular audio CD's are still only 16 bits @ 44.1khz . Converters have come a long way since 1982.
57basstra
Senior Member
Username: 57basstra

Post Number: 1027
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 5:15 pm:   Edit Post

Among the Fender basses I do have (and Alembics, and Gibsons, and Kramers and Rics and etc.) I have a relatively new American Fender Jazz with S1 switching and this is one bad boy. Is it an Alembic? no.

It is very light, the neck is fast and the guitar is beautiful (in my opinion.) This is a new American Fender and I think it is a great bass. I have several older Fender basses.

My motto is how many guitars (or basses) does a person need? "One more!"


(Oh, for the guitar side) I bought an Eric Johnson Strat in March from a local Music Store that had it for a while and could not move it. Also, I scored a Gibson Angus Young SG on Craigslist within the past two weeks. Very, very nice additions to my guitar arsenal that is spearheaded with an Alembic Series I '78 6 banger.)
hb3
Senior Member
Username: hb3

Post Number: 408
Registered: 2-2005
Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 8:24 pm:   Edit Post

I've played some new Fenders that've been very nice. I had a Marcus Miller that played and sounded great. Their stuff seems really solid to me at the moment.
hendixclarke
Senior Member
Username: hendixclarke

Post Number: 831
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 8:16 am:   Edit Post

Fender Body, + Alembic pickups = risk-free-cool
Alembic Body + Fender Pickups = retarded-risk-seek help now.

Hey, if it works, go for it... :-)

(Message edited by hendixclarke on July 11, 2009)
elwoodblue
Senior Member
Username: elwoodblue

Post Number: 752
Registered: 6-2002
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 8:44 am:   Edit Post

Hal,
Did you read that I have a strat pickup in my Alembic guitar?
...can I suggest we close this thread?
hendixclarke
Senior Member
Username: hendixclarke

Post Number: 832
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 9:21 am:   Edit Post

I'll say it again...

- Hey, if it works, go for it... :-)
pauldo
Intermediate Member
Username: pauldo

Post Number: 186
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 10:08 am:   Edit Post

Tagging a smiley face on to a post thinking it will lessen a rude statement makes as much sense as starting a thread that asks the question:

"If you could pick one drummer, who would you go with that embodies your best bass playing style and accents?
AND then answering your own question with a list of hundreds of drummers.

Sorry Dave - Now that I got that off my chest I will breathe.

(Message edited by pauldo on July 11, 2009)
hendixclarke
Senior Member
Username: hendixclarke

Post Number: 834
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 10:55 am:   Edit Post

The list of Drummers, "I listed" was in honor of their great works, and on the contrary to your statements, of me answering my own question(s).

Also, when I add a smiley face to my statements, it actually means: "I don't take this stuff seriously, it's my harmless opinion, its just a feeling I would care to share for whatever it is worth, it will not change the world... meaning: Birds will still sing, Flowers will still grow, and Lovers will continue to love..."

Now I have a question for you:

If someone post a picture on a Fender with Alembic electronics, is there a slight possibility, someone may not agree with the configuration?

Those are the risks right?

So why are you infringing on my rights to state my comments when there are risks due to the nature of the threads?

How was my statements rude in the first place?

Some "Alembic Purist" could say, "it's still not an Alembic" would that be rude, if someone said that?

I think it depends on the context in which the statements is made, and it could fly in either direction...

Therefore, I believe your comments are rude toward me, and not really directed at anything I said here, for you reach on other threads to find something to stick, which frankly merits endorsements nor my trust.

Me rude?

Try again... prove it.
white_cloud
Senior Member
Username: white_cloud

Post Number: 718
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post

Just for the record I have nothing to say on this thread because already it has come under threat of hijack from Hal - therefore all common sense, integrity and objectivity would merely be wasted...........................

John.
hendixclarke
Senior Member
Username: hendixclarke

Post Number: 838
Registered: 6-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 2:56 pm:   Edit Post

I apologize to someone who would remove a fully functional set of very expensive Alembic pickups from an Alembic guitar, for the replacement of Fenders pickups...

Whoever, or wherever you exist and had performed this with your Alembic, I am truly sorry if I had offended you with my remarks.

If anyone in the future intends to replace their fully functional used Alembic pickups for a set of NEW Fender pickups, please let me know, and I will save you the cost of purchasing them [I will buy them NEW for you...] at no cost... just send those used Alembic pickups to me; and I'll call it an even trade.

(Message edited by hendixclarke on July 11, 2009)
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2319
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 3:19 am:   Edit Post

How about Fender and Rickenbacker?

(caution - 1980's content)
[moderator's note; Graeme's band picture cropped and reposted immediately below this post]

I often wonder how she'd sound if I replaced the old Ric pups with alembics?
frickenbacker



Graeme

(Message edited by davehouck on July 13, 2009)
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8363
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post

Graeme's band picture



(Message edited by davehouck on July 13, 2009)
crobbins
Advanced Member
Username: crobbins

Post Number: 399
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post

I like Rickenbacker's...
jeffbass4
Junior
Username: jeffbass4

Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 9:08 am:   Edit Post

Just a couple of thoughts on the tube vs solid state. From my experience I started with all solid state, then moved to a SVT tube preamp with a solid state power amp. Big improvement and I have had that for years. I never wanted to haul around a monster SVT all tube head but after I played one again I just had to have one. The reason is, I can feel and hear how the tube power pushes the speakers. I still have the tube/solid state rig I use in rehearsals, but switching back and forth there is a clear difference in the punch and fullness of tone. The downside I would say is, at least on this amp, if you are looking for a clean tone it doesn't happen unless the volume is low. The amp overdrives when turned up which for me is a good thing.
My vote....tubes!
Regards to all.
sonicus
Intermediate Member
Username: sonicus

Post Number: 185
Registered: 5-2009
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 9:31 am:   Edit Post

One important factor regarding ALL TUBE SVT"S and any other ALL TUBE rig is that you need to RE-BIAS the OUTPUT tubes which in the case of an ALL TUBE SVT are 655O's RE-BIAS ! This procedure is vital to the quality of the sound at high amplitude. This should be done right after you do a total re-tube. Remember tube power amps are not low maintenance. You need to have a RE-BIA's procedure done by a qualified tube tech for maximum sound quality.
In California the best TUBE AMP TECH that I know of is http://unclespot.com
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 451
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post

Do any of you use the Tech21 Sansamp?
hydrargyrum
Senior Member
Username: hydrargyrum

Post Number: 617
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post

For the do-it-yourself types, I know that Eurotubes.com sells a rebiasing kit.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8364
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 1:06 pm:   Edit Post

Vann-Di; I now have a Sansamp PSA-1 in my rig.
jacko
Senior Member
Username: jacko

Post Number: 2322
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 2:42 am:   Edit Post

Thanks Dave. I'll work out how to do that myself someday ;-)

Graeme
jeffbass4
Junior
Username: jeffbass4

Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2003
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 7:55 am:   Edit Post

The new SVT's have biasing adjustments on the back panel. There are 2, one for each set of 3 power tubes. Periodically you need to check to see if the green indicator lights are on which tells you if they are in proper bias. I will assume you'll have to get a professional to do this when you replace them.
How do you guys like the Sansamp units? I'd like to try one myself.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8371
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 9:49 am:   Edit Post

Jeff; I'm not really using the PSA-1 the way it's meant to be used, so I'm not sure I can provide a useful review.

The fact that it is midi controlled was important to me, and I use my foot controller to switch between presets that I have set up on the PSA-1. I was looking for something that would give me the option of more of a tube overdriven tone when I wanted it.

I have the PSA-1 in my chain after the F-1X and SF-2. Personally, I don't think I would want to use the PSA-1 as a stand alone bass preamp, as the basic tone controls are not flexible enough. So I use the F-1X and SF-2 together to set up my basic curve, and I leave them alone. I then have a basic "clean" setting on the PSA-1, which is a little more "saturated" then the tone would have been without it. I don't use the bypass on the PSA-1, as my effects are in the PSA-1's effects loop. In addition to my "clean" setting, I've setup two other presets which are not much different than the clean setting, just a little more "saturated" in different ways than the clean setting. And I'm still learning to work with it and plan to develop some more settings that will be useful for me.

The PSA-1 is the last thing in my chain before the power amp, so I can use the direct outs if needed.

At the moment, I'm happy with my tone; and the PSA-1 is a part of it. So to answer your question, I like it; it's a useful tool. And it seems to me that if I keep working with it, I should be able to coax some more stuff out of it that I'll be able to use.

For me, in the way that I'm trying to use it, I find the PSA-1 to be extremely complex and sensitive. There are five different gain controls that work interactively. The thing is designed primarily to emulate Marshall, Mesa, and Fender guitar amps; and there are 49 built-in presets with different amp and effect emulations. All of these sound pretty cool, and none of them are things that are useful to me. So it's going to take some time for me to get a feel for how the controls interact with each other so that I can design some useful presets.
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 453
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 14, 2009 - 2:10 pm:   Edit Post

Dave,

How is your tone when you use the DI on the PSA-1?

I want to go direct but I do not want to lose any warmth from the tube pre-amp.
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8374
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 6:43 am:   Edit Post

I haven't used the DI yet. According to the manual the same signals that go to the DIs (switchable line level or instrument level) go to the outputs for the power amps. Again, the PSA-1 isn't just a DI; it's designed primarily to be a preamp with circuitry designed to emulate Marshall, Mesa, and Fender guitar amps. So if you are just looking for a DI, the PSA-1 would probably not be what you are looking for.
funkyjazzjunky
Senior Member
Username: funkyjazzjunky

Post Number: 455
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 7:56 am:   Edit Post

I am looking to stop sweating by hauling around a rig & cabs. I am going to try my old Carvin preamp with the PSA-1
davehouck
Moderator
Username: davehouck

Post Number: 8378
Registered: 5-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 6:47 pm:   Edit Post

There are plenty of reviews to check out at Harmony Central.

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