| Author | Message | ||
| kr4bass
New Username: kr4bass Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2003 |
I have an Epic 4 strung with DR Low-riders and I play thru a SWR Workingmans 15 head ( I decapitated it from the cabinet) and a Gauss 210 cabinet. The bass seems to have an inherent nasally mid-range honk to it (my fretless Warwick Corvette 4 also strung with DRs doesn't have this sound) and no amount of tweaking the amp controls gets rid of it.I have tried different brands and types of strings and the "sound" persists. My solution so far has been to use a SansAmp Bass Driver DI to really fill out the sound.I've also found that when I practice using a Crate BX-25 I can get a better sound when I engage the "Contour" switch.( Kinda sad when I can get a better sound out of a little cheapie amp!) Anyway, I'm looking for your thoughts.Do any of you guys get this nasally tone? I'm neither a hi-tech or high dollar guy so go easy on me. Rest assured I am NOT ready to give up my Alembic! | ||
| bracheen
Junior Username: bracheen Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2003 |
Hello Kenn, I have an Epic 4 string also and have not experienced what you discribe so hopefully it's something in the signal processing rather than the bass itself. I'm not in a band and play at home using a "cheapie" 15 watt Hartke. I'm not sure what type of strings are on it. I just got the bass about three weeks ago and the strings were in pretty good shape so I didn't replace them. By the way, we need photos of your bass! Show it off. Sam | ||
| davehouck
Advanced Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 203 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hi Kenn; what woods make up your bass? And how long have you had your Epic? Different woods are going to give a different sound. For instance my all Maple bass sounds significantly different from my Mahogany body with Walnut top. I would suggest you check the battery, but if you've had the bass for a while that's probably not the problem. Also, if you can, you might want to take your bass to a music store and plug in to some higher powered amps and see if you still get the same sound. The fact that the SansAmp filled out the sound suggests that the Workingman's amp might be a contributing factor. Just guessing. | ||
| jet_powers
Member Username: jet_powers Post Number: 73 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Kenn, Welcome to the club. The other Pauls will be along shortly to welcome you more officially. I tend to agree with Dave and suspect the SWR. the 210 cab is also bound to produce a "middy" sound. I have had only one experience with an SWR Workingman's amp and it was not a good one. I felt they named it that because I had to work like hell to get a sound out of it. Not that they can't sound good. I'm sure people have had lots of good luck with them or they wouldn't still be on the market. It's just that perhaps I'm more comfortable with a lot more power and just couldn't get the tone I was used to with it. I would take Dave's advice and head to the local GC or someplace similar and try plugging into a few other rigs. If you still get that "honky" sound while plugged into an SVT say, perhaps it is the instrument......somehow I tend to doubt that though. Good luck! Paul the John one | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 738 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hi Kenn, just hopping by welocome you in this fantastic club. It's strange that "honky" sound. I laways thought that is was a typical SWR-speaker thing?? Oh ...and yes: pictures-pictures we need that a lot. Agian about that "honky" sound: could it be that for one or another reason your filter setting is "biased" . Not on the potmeter but internally on the electronics, in pre-setting??I'm just guessing! Paul the bad one BTW: hi there Paul the John one how are you | ||
| dela217
Advanced Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 216 Registered: 6-2002 |
Kenn - I had a bass that was doing the same sort of thing. No matter what I did, I got a nasty nasaly honking sound. BUT, when I used one pickup at a time, this terrible sound went away. Come to find out that the pickups were just out of phase with each other. When you select one pickup only, does the honking go away? Just a thought, it has happened before! | ||
| essencetimestwo
Junior Username: essencetimestwo Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2003 |
When we practice at our guitar player's house I use his SWR Workingman's 15 combo with my Essence basses. I have to cut out a lot of highs and mids to get a good sound. The SWR seems to have a lot of high and mid boost to compensate for some other basses wimpy sounds. Alembics cover the full range spectrum so well that this seems to stand out. I agree with the others and think that you should try some other amps at your local guitar shop. | ||
| s_wood
Member Username: s_wood Post Number: 74 Registered: 5-2002 |
I second that emotion! I used to use an SWR Workingman's 15 at a rehearsal hall one of my bands used and I thought it was an awful match for my Alembics. It was way too boomy, with artifically-enhanced low mids. In an effort to get a more balanced tone, I had to roll off the bass and boost the mids, which made my tone too honky. I'll bet if you play your bass through another amp you'll fall in love with it again. | ||
| adriaan
Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2002 |
Stupid question perhaps, but does the Gauss cabinet have a tweeter, and could it be broken? If there's a cross-over inside the cab, the highs will be lost. It could also be that the amp section is really voiced for the speaker that it came with in the combo. When using any SWR amp, you should be aware that the Aural Enhancer is not a boost/cut control like the other knobs, but more like a master volume (boost only). It is not really an effect, but a filter that does the infamous 'smiley curve' - scooped mids, boosted highs and lows - like the preshape switch on an old Trace Elliott, IIRC. The good thing is that here you can adjust the amount of 'grin'. Just remember that 12 o'clock on the Aural Exciter is everything but neutral - and to help you remember that, there's no center detent on it! I turn it up to about 9 o'clock, never higher. If you turn up the volume with a higher setting for the enhancer then you'll lose a lot of definition for the lows, especially if you're already boosting the lows on the amp and/or your Epic. The situation on a WM15 is a bit more complicated because of the semi-parametric midrange control. Try cutting about 5 dBs at 1 kHz, that usually creates a sound that's nicer on the ears. I played a Spoiler through a WM12 the other day, and with only the neck pickup on indeed I got a very honky sound. With my Epic, through a WM12, there's no honkiness at all. In fact, I boost the mids just a tiny bit to hear myself better in a band. Don't give up too soon! | ||
| xlrogue6
Junior Username: xlrogue6 Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've used a Workingman's 12 for the past couple of years fairly successfully. I've tried a Workingman's 15 a couple of times and had, it seems, pretty much the same experience as everyone else here--couldn't dial in the tonal balance no matter what I tried. My general experience with 15's is that their midrange always tends to be too honky for my taste, although I love what they do in the bottom octave, which is why I've gone to biamping for my big rig. I use the Aural Enhancer pretty much like adriaan, but I also turn the tweeter off, as I find it obnoxiously bright, even with my Q switch off. All other tone controls are somewhere near 12 o'clock, depending on the room. I'll often boost the bass slightly, and less frequently cut the mids a bit. But this is all irrelevant now because I've just played through the new Boogie Scout combo (Walkabout head in a cab with a 12 and an 8" passive radiator). Once you play through one of these you'll never want to use another combo amp! (Don't say I didn't warn you...) | ||
| adriaan
Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 62 Registered: 6-2002 |
I really liked their Son of Bertha cab, which is a single 15" with a tweeter - but this was with a much bigger amp (SM500 or up) and on top of a Goliath 4x10. I wouldn't call it honky sounding, but you do need to know how to work the controls on these things. The worst sounding rig from a 'premium' brand I ever heard was an Eden head + 4x10 used for a double bass. It actually made farting noises. (And it wasn't me playing.) | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 129 Registered: 4-2003 |
Kenn, Adriaan makes a good point - Don't give up too soon. You need to know why something isn't working for you or if it ever will. I use an SWR 350 and a Goliath III cab. The Fostex horn in the cab has a reputation for generating "honking" sounds. I've yet to experience any of that when used with a Jazz or my Alembic. I did discover that I had to roll off many of the settings after getting the Alembic. It was so "there" compared to my Jazz. My currnet signal chain is straight forward: maple-topped Orion w/ Europa electronics,F1-X(recent addition), SWR 350, Goliath. The F1-X has rendered the EQ settings on the SWR obsolete, they never leave detent (fine by me), nor do I use much of the Aural enhancer (very low settings) and the sound is great. Keep pluggin away for as long as you can take it, but its better to know what doesn't work before starting to trudge through the myriad of available solutions. Oh, geez, almost forgot my manners...Welcome to The Club. | ||
| dean_m
Advanced Member Username: dean_m Post Number: 215 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Kenn, Welcome to the club. I've got basses that are very similar to your situation. A maple body Elan with a Bubinga top, and a Mahogany body Orion with a Bubinga top. I also have a Warwick Streamer Stage I. All 5 strings. There is definately a difference in sound between all three basses. And especially between the Alembics and the Warwicks. My Warwicks tend to have more of a scooped or smiley face EQ sound to them with a very compressed midrange. This makes the overall sound sort of squished sounding. My Alembics on the other hand have a much more "open" or "pronounced" sound to them, giving it the illusion of being somewhat more "honky" in tone. I do have to adjust my amps EQ setting depending on what bass I'm using at the time. Do you have standard Epic electronics?? Vol/Pan/Bass/Treble. And what woods are your bass made from? D | ||
| kr4bass
New Username: kr4bass Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2003 |
I see H have some more tweaking to do. I will be practicing tonigtht thru a friends G-K (not sure of the model) and a 15' speaker. I'll try noodling with the controls at see what comes out. I do know that when I boot the mid settings on the SWR it gets worse. I usually have the Aural Enhancer around 2 o'clock, full bass on the amp and the Epic. I set the mids around 9o'clock and 12 o'clockish for treble and presence. I tend to favor the bridge pickup with some of the neck. I will use both when slapping is required. I never use the neck pickup alone. Too much like a P-bass (yuk)(sorry if I offended any P-bass fans). I have standard Epic electronics. The woods are Maple neck , Mahogany body with a Zebrawood top. It's a 95. I got it new in 96 or 97 ( I'm too old to remember that far back!) Anyway, thanks for the welcome and the input. I will continue my quest with my attention paid to the amp(s) instead of the bass.I ,obviously, have more to learn! | ||
| adriaan
Member Username: adriaan Post Number: 63 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Ken, Did you make any progress tweaking the knobs? From the settings you describe, the first thing to do is definitely to back off the aural exciter to 9 o'clock at the most. I'd also back off the lows, both on your Epic and on the amp. Why? You're trying to boost lows, but there simply isn't too much of that to start with: the pan pot is nearly all the way to the bridge pickup. So you end up with the amp trying desperately to pump up non-existent lows, and it probably takes that out on the higher registers. Also, what string gauge are you using? There just isn't much bass in light strings. Take care! | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1265 Registered: 6-2000 |
All the set neck Alembics will have a more midrange-y tone, which may be described as honk. You may want to cut some mids at the amp to counter this natural sound of the bass. You're in good hands with these experts at the Club, so keep trying, you'll get there. | ||
| kungfusheriff
Junior Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2003 |
I agree...I'm a midrange freak but Alembics don't seem to need a lot of those frequencies to sound good. I once teamed my Spoiler with my SWR Baby Blue, neither of which I own today for some reason, cut the mids most of the way out, then boosted the bass and treble frequencies with the bass control set on 40 hertz. The aural enhancer was probably set to 9 or 10 o'clock and I used the neck pickup only. It was an ungodly noise that made my bandmates very uncomfortable. Tight, pounding lows, cutting highs, and a deliciously audible detail to every note. | ||
| kr4bass
New Username: kr4bass Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2003 |
Well,thanks so much for the continued input, Mica described the tone better than I did. Anyway, I've played the bass thru a friends older Gallien-Kruger 400RB and.....well, I gotta lose the SWR. Looks like I'll be test driving some amp heads in the near future.The G-K gave me a much fuller sound without using my SansAmp. So, on your recommendations I'll be checking out Mesas, G-Ks and Ampegs. Thanks again! | ||
| oujeebass
Junior Username: oujeebass Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have always liked the idea of having to much(in this case mids)cause you can always take away,but never add to. On my Epic, when I cut the bass I get a rise in perceived mids and I get alot of in between sounds adjusting the blend. I also tend to cut the treble since it smooths out the highs nicely. I have a bocate top,so I am not sure truely how much that affects the tone.Only because I haven't tried other Epics with different tops. I also like the fact that the neck pickup is very bassy. I typically just lower the volume a bit to attenuate. It will relly get the speakers moving. | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2002 |
post error. (Message edited by hifibassman on December 19, 2003) | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2002 |
kr4bass: As most of the gentlemen said above, you should consider is that this "honkin" tone you are describing is the fact that most rigs out there are not capable of reproducing an even tone across the upper frequency spectrum that your Alembic is capable of putting out with unprecedented smoothness and precision. Your Alembic bass is not the problem- trust me. You were probably expecting to hear the typical "balsy" beefy muffled and muted tone that everyone else in the music world is used to coming from a bass- this un-natural bass sound seems to be in every type of media imagineable. Not saying that other bass guitars are inferior, but they seem to "clone" each other sound-wise if you know what I mean. Who wants this?? You bought an Alembic, which pretty much defines what natural bass tone is. You just have to either play with your rig settings and find a happy medium or find a new rig that can handle the Alembic. I'm not trying to portray myself as an extreme Alembic fanatic, but, you have graduated into a very different, much larger world of absolute natural tone... you just don't know what these basses are capable of. btw, that SWR workingman's setup will produce a midrange heavy sound with little or no highs. I played an alembic on one of these and I do remember that I did not like the tone. I found the Eden 4 x 10 combo to sound much better even though that one is still limited in frequency range. (Message edited by hifibassman on December 19, 2003) |
