| Author | Message | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 130 Registered: 4-2003 |
When would stereo output from your bass be an advantage? thanks, Mike | ||
| stoney
Advanced Member Username: stoney Post Number: 245 Registered: 7-2002 |
I've always sort of wondered that myself. The Series basses can be played in Stereo (or mono) when the power supply is used but only in stereo through the 1/4 inch jack (I know the 1/4 inch jacks were stereo on the 81's Series basses. Don't know if they still are) Anyway, I always wondered why they wouldn't make the 1/4 in. jack mono. Anyway, I recently did a gig using my Brown Bass which has mono and stereo output. I've been having problems with this Euphonic Audio iAmp 800. Seems that it sort of poops out when I run anything less than 8ohms through it (I'm using an ACME 2x10 and a 1x10) It mainly happens when I'm playing really hard or fast or slapping. Sort of like information overload, the amp regroups if I stop playing for a while. So I took my little GK micro amp (the amp part of that old really cool GK 12" box w/amp...they used to sell the amp part seperately.)and ran my bass in stereo. I ran the neck P/U through the 2x10 and iAmp @ 500 watts and the bridge P/U through the 1x10 and GK micro at around 100 watts. It was really pretty efficient and a great sound too. You can EQ each P/U to your liking and the dial the volume in or out. | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1240 Registered: 6-2000 |
That's true for the older basses, Stoney. Since about 1988 or so, the 1/4" jack is supplied as a mono output by default on a Series I or II. Of course, you do lose the cool plug-your-headphones-in-the-bass feature when the 1/4" is mono, but you will get both pickups with a regular guitar cord. When you order a Series I or II, you can specify the 1/4" output to be wired stereo, mono or add a mono/stereo switch at no extra charge. | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2002 |
AN answer to the question would be to have the ability to literally have two basses in one. I read an article on SC once that said he ran the neck pick-up through a standard "bass" rig, and the bridge pick-up through all the effects into Marshall stacks for solos. I personally like to run stereo becaue I feel I can get a better over-all sound when each pick-up has its own preamp. In the case of the 20th Anniversary electronics, the signal seems more robust in stereo mode - even if I just run both signals into the same F1-X (using both inputs at once). C-Ya...........wayne | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 741 Registered: 9-2002 |
huh-huh Brother Wayne. please explain?!? So you mean that I can go from my DS-5R to my F1-X using the BOTH outs on the DS-5R??? But the F1-X treats them as mono afterwards then??? I mean, I only work in bi-amp. And the sound gets "fuller"?? Or what''s happening?? Paul the puzzled one | ||
| lembic76450
Junior Username: lembic76450 Post Number: 12 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, I too run both outs of the DS-5 into each channel of my F-2B, but, I use the mono out of the pre-amp as I only run one side of my power amp. It seems to give a summing effect to the pick-ups. As Wayne says it gives a much fatter sound. I usually run 2 single 12" Bag End cabinets for the stage. It keeps it much simpler for the house guy that way and cheaper for me. Kenn Reynolds | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2002 |
The reason the sound is fatter singled out is because when you blend neck and bridge together, some frequencies of one pickup tone naturally cancels out (reduces or adds to) the other. Each pickup is sensing a slightly different vibrating wave of the same string due to it's position that may add or subtract from the sound at certain frequencies. When you blend the pickups, you get slightly different resonances and harmonics than if they were singled out. I believe there is an electronic load that is placed on the output preamp channels inside the bass when both pickup circuits are blended that renders a more softer, buttery, harmonizing trebly sound (based on the natural interaction of both pickup coils electronically blended). If running single, then you would get more of a balsy or bassy sound presence. Alembic SC-1's (series pickups) are the state of the art, absolute magnetic pickup perfection. I think all of us will agree that Alembic's wonderful series preamp circuit brings out the maximum possible potential of both pickups singular or in combo mixture. My major in college was in electronics, and i have built (as a hobby) many complex sallen key based filters such as Alembic, just to let you know i'm not just making all this up. (Message edited by hifibassman on November 18, 2003) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 745 Registered: 9-2002 |
So let me put this again. You guys are giving me the following concept: - multicable from Bonnie to DS5-R - Put DS-5R switch to "Stereo" - link the two outputs front of the DS-5R to the two inputs of the F1-X -where they are threated as "mono" through the SF-2 in my case and splitted by the frequency crossover in low and high, going to the poweramp? Correct? For the moment I run the DS-5R in mono-switch and than with 1 cable out to 1 input on the F1-X. And there would be a sound difference??? ***sigh*** the more I read about the lesser I understand from electronics. But ...I'll try this tomorrow evening on my "Drive" rehearsal. I'm really curious!!! Paul the VERY puzzled one (and ...ok ...I admit ...a little -tiny bit- sceptical) | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul- Yes. I believe you will hear a difference. In theory, there's not, but my ears tell me there is. One of the cool features of the F1-X circuit is that input 2 has a 6dB pad on it if used by itself. When you use both inputs at the same time, "... mixing resistors combine the signals and give isolation to the two input sources." In layman's terms: the 6db pad goes away. Using only one preamp, you won't be able to EQ the pickups separately, but I think you will notice a difference in tone and better noise rejection. Give it try! C-Ya.............wayne | ||
| davehouck
Advanced Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 205 Registered: 5-2002 |
Wayne; although I tend to defer to your greater expertise, could the difference in tone be merely perceived due to an actual difference in volume? I'm talking about the situation as described by Paul where in the first case the DS-5 is set to mono and one cable is run to the F1-X and in the second case the DS-5 is set to stereo and two cables are run to the F1-X. I'm just thinking out loud as I don't have a series bass or, obviously, a DS-5. Paul; I look forward to your post-rehearsal report. | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 746 Registered: 9-2002 |
Oh You bet I'll report. I'll report like I've never report in my entire live. | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2003 |
Taking all into account, does the pickup selector on the series basses behave differently than the usual blend control? In other words, setting a series bass pu selector to "both" affect the signal regarding cancelling the way the variable blend control works? In that case I guess there is no "blending"? Wayne - How would i get a stereo signal from the 20th Anniv electronincs into an F1-X or is that even possible? | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2002 |
If the output of the DS-5 is in stereo mode, with two cables going into the F1-X in stereo mode (if there is a such a thing), and if the output from the F1-X is going into two heads and two separate cabs- the perceived tone or sound will be different than blending it at the input source or setting to mono. But, if the signal is in stereo mode and blended at the F1-X, then the tone should be very close to the mono setting (may not be exactly the same because it may be a different type of mixing circuit- not the same as the DS-5). All of this is assuming we are talking about the series bass as the originating platform. The series bass has an isolated circuit for each pickup, and the two pickups can be mixed together in an additive way on the bass itself to the output cable before the signal enters the F1-X. Or am i on the wrong page in this discussion here? | ||
| wayne
Member Username: wayne Post Number: 83 Registered: 5-2002 |
Dave - The tone really is pretty much the same (unless you have two preamps) from mono mode to stereo mode. That's even accounting for volume. Stereo mode does *seem* to give a hotter signal with the Series bass, and it *seems* to have better hum rejection. I believe that the offcial word from Ron W. would be that I'm dreaming. Michael - With a selector switch, you get one pickup or the other or both. No in-betweens. The way I adjust the "blend" of the pickups is with the individual volume controls (not just the trim pots inside the bass). For the 20th Anniversary electronics, you just need a Y instrument cable: stereo 1/4 inch on one end, 2 mono 1/4 inch on the other. Marcus usually has some in stock @ Larry Morgan. You will definitely notice an increase in signal strength running the 20th Anniversary in stereo mode. Randell - Your second paragraph is on target. I typically run a stereo signal that is "blended" at the F1-X inputs. I take the mono signal out of the F1-X into a QSC PLX that's set in parallel mode, thereby giving me a master volume for each of two speaker cabinets. I first experimented with the stereo signal into one F1-X due to only getting one channel on the FOH board. Once I realized that the F1-X would do it, and that my 20th Anniversary had a stronger signal in stereo mode, there was no looking back for me. We're definitely talking about perceptions here. As I said, technically, there's probably no difference and I'm just hearing things.....but isn't that what it's all about? C-Ya...........wayne | ||
| hifibassman
Junior Username: hifibassman Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2002 |
Quote from Wayne: "Dave - The tone really is pretty much the same (unless you have two preamps) from mono mode to stereo mode." My first paragraph is agreeing with you on this except for my assumption of the F1-X having a stereo mode- in full stereo mode if you have two preamps going into two separate heads and cabs, the sound will be different. | ||
| yahyabb
Junior Username: yahyabb Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mike; To answer your question. Stereo is an advantage when you want to truely hear or "feel" your axe. However, part of the setup is having "full range" speakers for each pickup. Yahya (Message edited by yahyabb on November 18, 2003) | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 754 Registered: 9-2002 |
Post-rehearsal report "...but I think you will notice a difference in tone and better noise rejection. " Fully correct Wayne. Unfortunately I didn't had the chance to really A/B the situations. The rehearsal started late because yours truly, when arriving in situ discovered he ...forgot his bass at home DOH!!! I had more low end in my sound giving constant settings on my F1-X. I have no idea if the reason was being louder. I climbed Tweak Peaks and messed around with some settings -which is still an adventure and I guess it will be for a long time- to get a deeper and braoder tone. Although I felt loss in the tone area of the A on the D string. If I keep the input this was I'll spend some more time on Tweak Peaks. BTW we have a gig coming up on saturday night this week in Tervuren (you're all invited) so there will be a post-gig report next week. Paul the bad one | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 133 Registered: 4-2003 |
Thanks to everyone, lots to think about. The possibilities are endless...I'm not that familiar with the 20th Anniv elec's. Would they be fundamentaly different than say Signature w/ a stereo/mono switch and pick up selector? Mike | ||
| palembic
Senior Member Username: palembic Post Number: 757 Registered: 9-2002 |
Brother Mike, I'll try to explain in my own moron lingo. Anniv electronics are in fact teh same as playing with the knobs on a Les Paul Gibson (Susan, Ron and Mica no insult mended). To make myself clear: signature electronics -and all other 2 PU electronics on Alembic- are of the "OR" type. That means that by "panning" you choose PU1 OR PU2 adding together in a theoretical identical amopunt of volume where only the source of that amount of volume differs. So to get the set volume 7, you get 4 from PU1 and 3 from PU2. The maximum 7 is GIVEN by your volume potmeter. Anniversary electronics are different: there is a volume PER PU! So it's an AND setup. It is not OR PU1 for amount x with PU2 for amount y but PU1 AND PU2. That means that you ADD volumes. Let me explain in another way (thanks to gool old baldhead EVH). If you start with a setting you like on the neck PU (twiggle around with filter and 3p Qswitch) -what most of the time defines the "penetration" (excuse me the sexist word) of the bass sound- you can ADD a sound into that PU sound coming from the neck PU. It's a total different concept of tone shaping. I said earlier Les Paul guitars but I could said also Fender JB (there IS a reason why you see a lot of ALembic players with a JB while others would prefer a P) where you have a volume knob for every PU and 1 overall "colour". In "signature" the volume is -for example- limited to 7 (it's how you put your volume knob) so you choose every possile combination between PU1 delivering 1 and PU 2 delivering 6 to PU1 delivering 6 and PU2 delivering 1 (every time it adds up to 7). Using an anniversary you ADD to the set volume 6 of PU1 an amount of volume from PU2. That "ADDING" makes the difference. So you can ADD by PU1 at 6 an amount of 6 from PU2. So you get 12. (I'd like to talk of the Volume of Series I's as 10 + 10) Sounds great? Well ...for some people it's highy too complicated. Because volume and tone are defintely related in this set-up: by opening the volume knob of the neck PU you ADD deeper and rounder sounds to your bridge PU. BTW: it's why Series II's have a "general volume knob". It's why I always say to Series "starters" (o-oh there I go in "old-timer" setting): try to think of the 2 volumes as a TONE manipulator. General volume will be take care of by your amp of -in given case- by the general volume on the SII's. ***sigh*** I hope you understand. It's not evident to explain this in US-lingo for me. Paul the bad one PS: another way an Alembic S-bass is the technical and conceptual marriage between Fender JB pick-ups and Gibson Les Paul tone control with "Susanesc" feel for design and "Ronwise" techneuticals (okay ....I'm dead now) (Message edited by palembic on November 20, 2003) | ||
| groovelines
Intermediate Member Username: groovelines Post Number: 134 Registered: 4-2003 |
Paul, thanks for the lesson. Catch your breath, I follow you just fine. Mike |
