| Author | Message | ||
| jakebass
Member Username: jakebass Post Number: 85 Registered: 7-2007 |
I gave a lesson to a fellow bass player a few days ago, he is a member here(he is waiting on delivery of a Rogue with sig electronics) He remarked that my MK deluxe does not have a 'classic' Alembic tone in my hands. He was referring to the bright high chunky tone that most people associate with Stanley Clarke, so I put on some James Taylor for him to hear our esteemed brother JimmyJ, he immediately went out and bought James Taylor live and on his way to work this morning was listening and sent me some emails remarking on the tone and how he had never heard an Alembic sound that way either. My response to this (as I was forced to think about it) was to say that that is what drew me to Alembic in the first place (well that and a few great Alembic players) I said to him that of all the basses I have owned it's the one that when I play it sounds most like me.... I am interested to hear (if people agree with me) Why this is the case, what have these amazing luthiers come across in their practices that is less available in other instruments. I don't think for a moment that other makers are particularly lesser as luthiers per se, I just think it's an attribute of Alembics in particular that (for me at least) is their major selling point. I welcome your thoughts Alembic family. Jake | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 964 Registered: 11-2004 |
I guess it is all to do with SI & SII electronics which sound totally different to Signature electronics. I personally have not played a SI or SII but to all the members who own them, they do say you can hear the difference. I have the MK Signature standard and with some subtle tweaking of the filters and Q's I can can almost get that Mark King/Stan Clarke sound but the SII has such a variety of tonal options with Vari Q, twin filters, twin volumes and master with PU switch I guess that it must be different. Alembics tone controls are unique, if someone plays my bass they are usually bewildered as they expect bass boost/cut and treble boost/cut and to explain in about 1 minute to what they do is not the way forward. It took me six months to get the hang of the controls and even now I can find tones that I didn't think were there. | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 503 Registered: 12-2004 |
everybody plays with different filter settings i think that sums it up. | ||
| karl
Intermediate Member Username: karl Post Number: 159 Registered: 7-2002 |
I think the 'classic' Alembic sound that your student was referring to is probably the bright, zingy, toppy sound that many of the more high-profile Alembic users use. I'm thinking primarily of guys like Stanley Clarke and Mark King, obviously - the guys whose names are attached to specific Alembic models - but there are others, too, who seem to favour the same toppy sound. The thing to bear in mind, though, is that these high-profile players are generally not typical 'supporting' bass players - they are the stars of whichever ensemble they may be playing in, often because of that bright sound, which enables them to take the part of a lead instrument to a greater or lesser extent, rather than the traditional supporting role of the bass. We all know, though, that Alembics are capable of many more tones than those favoured by Stanley or Mark. And Jimmy Johnson's tone is a perfect example - he tends to play the more traditional supporting role (albeit with some wonderful flourishes here and there!) in the various groups he plays with, leaving the other guys, whether it's James Taylor or Allan Holdsworth or whoever, to bask in the spotlight. As such, he favours a tone which sits less obtrusively in the mix, and as a result, he's a less 'visible' bass player - i.e. while your average non-muso man-in-the-street may know of Stanley or Mark, he's unlikely to know Jimmy. So the overall perception of the sound of an Alembic is obviously going to be much more influenced by Stan or Mark's tone than by the hundreds of great, but generally less well-known players who choose to use Alembics in a less 'visible' manner. If I were to try to define the 'classic' Alembic tone myself, I'd say my opinions of this have changed over the years. When I first came to Alembics, having grown up listening to Stan and Mark, I definitely thought the classic Alembic sound was that bright, nasal, toppy sound. But since acquiring my own SC deluxe, playing with the filters, and widening my musical horizons, from initially just playing with jazz-funk and fusion outfits, to now playing with a range of bands from country, to reggae, to metal, to ska, and getting to hear of some of the other great Alembic players out there like Jimmy, I've come to realise that, for me at least, the defining element of the Alembic sound is the extreme definition and articulation of each note, as opposed to the actual tone of the note. You can get everything from a zingy, toppy guitar-like sound down to a muted, rolled-off P-bass thump out of an Alembic, but you always get that articulation and definition at the beginning of the note, which responds to every nuance in the way you hit that note. Fascinating discussion - I could go on for days, but I'm interested to hear what others think! | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1076 Registered: 11-2004 |
Good point about Jimmy Johnson... and the thing that makes it all the more interesting is Jimmy's admission is his showcase thread that he plays with both filters wide open- which *should* give that zing and top end that we've come to expect from Mark King, Stanley Clarke, etc. Jimmy's quote from that thread: "I almost never move the knobs. My pickup balance (set with the back panel trim pots) favors the bridge pickup and I tend to just barely boost the Q control at the highest frequency on that pickup for some extra "air". Otherwise the pickup volume and tone controls are wide open all the time. " It's all in the fingers and they way you choose to play isn't it? | ||
| afrobeat_fool
Junior Username: afrobeat_fool Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2009 |
I quite agree with all these great points. I got my first series one two weeks ago to the day. The reality is that it has so much more controll than my essence, and soooooo many more tone varieties. I've been playing with the Q open and the bottom pick up tone rolled to about 40%, using the top pick up like my J-bass for power and push, and depth of tone for the low end. Nomenclature, I hope you cats can understand what I mean. Like Karl, the real Alembic sound is the articulation. Sat. I played Funkadelic, JB's, TOP, Marvin etc... all night and the next night it was Raggae. I didn't need to change my pick-up settings as much as how I approached the song, and the way I played. Toby is Right on. Jimmy's style of playing and the tone he generates it right for the song and artist. These instruments have the wonderful characteristics to allow the players abilities to shine. My hearty thanks to all the craftsmen and women at Alembic thru the years. | ||
| karl
Intermediate Member Username: karl Post Number: 160 Registered: 7-2002 |
Interesting - what we're noticing here is that our Alembics are actually quite tonally 'transparent' - by which I mean that they allow even the subtlest changes in the way in which we play - whereabouts on the string we pluck, how hard we pluck, angle of attack etc etc - to come through and have a noticeable effect on the final sound. I, too, tend to leave my controls alone, now that I've found a sound which I really like: bridge pickup fully open but Q switch off, neck pickup only about one-third open, but Q switch on, to give a nice warm low-mid bump. The only tweaking I ever do is to shift that low-mid bump up or down ever so slightly by opening or closing the neck pickup a touch, if I need to stop the stage booming at a particular frequency. I even have my amp (Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0) set completely flat. Every other adjustment in my sound comes from the way I choose to play any given song, sometimes palm-muting, sometimes finger-style, sometimes slapping, sometimes digging in, sometimes sitting back, etc. I guess the controls give you the 'base tone' of your sound, then the articulate responsiveness of the instrument (which I've found to be unique to Alembics) allows you to colour that base tone further. | ||
| bassilisk
Junior Username: bassilisk Post Number: 44 Registered: 4-2009 |
When I got my MK Std in 2000 I was immediately enthralled at the depth and clarity of the notes. I have left the factory settings alone and truth be told, I've very rarely used the Q switch in all of that time. I usually leave the filters either maxed or rolled off just a touch - I like some zing for airiness and clarity but I don't like fret clack. I'll turn down the horn to get a balance I like. The trim pots are set with the neck at 1 o'clock and the bridge at 12 - I'll pan for more if I want it. 95% of the time it gives me exactly what I want. Amp EQ is pretty flat, with an occasional bump in the mids. I'm not much of a twiddler - I find a tone I like and stick with it. I find the basic ("plain vanilla" if you will) Alembic tone to suit me and my playing style just fine. I'm a finger player, no slap/tap for me. The musicality of that tone, combined with the clarity of the notes is quite impressive. I just got a Rogue with Signature electronics and tone switches for each pickup. Those tone switches are an added bonus. It had been "monkeyed with" by the previous owner so I reset the pickup heaghts and trim pots to match the MK. I'm loving it. It sounds great and it makes my playing sound better. I also have a Distillate with Spoiler electronics and, basic though it is (in comparison), it also sounds incredibly good. And I agree - the responsiveness of these instruments allows for broad tonal pallette access with just your hands. Loud rocks, soft is still clear but quiet, hand position comes through cleanly. The band I'm in doesn't reinforce so it's stage level/sound all the way. These instruments make the bass line sound like a recorded track every time. I am still amazed by that. All those bells and whistles don't matter if the fundamental design approach is flawed. They are truly some of the most "great right out of the gate" yet versatile instruments available and I'm very fortunate to have a few. (Message edited by bassilisk on August 04, 2009) | ||
| jimmyj
Member Username: jimmyj Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hey all, Good thread! Thanks for the kind comments about my sound, I owe a lot to the sound guys and recording engineers who have made it work in various musical settings. And I have also been lucky to fall into situations where my tone seems to fit. Just to clarify what Toby quoted above, I run the filters wide open - as in no HF rolloff - but the Q-boost knobs (small pointers) are just barely cracked. I am guessing Stanley and Mark King may use more boost to emphasize that zing. And because those guys are the most public face of Alembic I'm not surprised if people think that IS the "classic" Alembic sound. But we all know there is more to it than that! I will also say once again that the most important part of any instrument's sound is the person playing it. I tell the story of hearing Michael Landau and Robben Ford at a rehearsal one day. At one point they swapped guitars - totally different setups and amps - and the sound moved with the guy. Think of McCoy Tyner sitting down at the same piano you just heard a classical pianist play mozart. You would be unable to identify it as the same instrument. I'm sure you guys have experienced this. The short story is - IT'S NOT ABOUT THE GEAR. It's not even about the filter settings. Entwistle never sounded like Stanley! As Karl says, the reason we all love these basses is the accuracy, articulation and wide scope of tone available. Whatever subtle thing you do on this bass is translated through it's output. If you move your right hand towards the bridge one inch the sound changes. Jake, when you say "...it sounds most like me", to me that means you have found a bass that comes closest to achieving the sound "in your head", what you think a bass should sound like. The highly responsive nature of these basses helps us get to that sound. I've been stuck on these since the early 70's so I guess it works for me! Cheers to all! Jimmy J | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 965 Registered: 11-2004 |
JimmyJ..you know you are too modest and humble at the same time! Don't give those sound guys too much credit, your playing and tone are through years of playing Alembics and experience. when I first got my MK every bum note stuck out like a sore thumb, boy did it make play better, not make me better but made me work harder. Even playing slap(which sometimes you can play a solo with not all the notes coming out) you have to articulate so much more accurate or it sounds like SHIT. Still I agree that it still is the hands rather than the instrument. Jaco would sound like Jaco even on the cheapest of basses(someone disagreed with me on a thread ages ago on that comment) After listeneing to loads of players you can with some accuracy have a damn good guess who it is. | ||
| jakebass
Member Username: jakebass Post Number: 86 Registered: 7-2007 |
I love how this thread is going, it strikes me that we are a thoughtful bunch and it seems that we all care. The word that really rings out for me is transparency, these instruments let the player through with least colouration, and Jimmy yes it's about what is in my head and Alembics ability to produce that. Of all the characteristics that they have it is the front of the note that means the most to me. My bass allows really definitive statement about where the feel is and with a good drummer that has such an infectious effect in the room. I am at my happiest when I can see that people are unable to resist a little jiggle to the beat, that gives me the biggest smile. Some really great thoughts here guys, thanks, but keep them coming, I still want to hear about what people think they do there that makes it so special... Jake | ||
| mario_farufyno
Intermediate Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2008 |
Simply perfect (as always), Mr Johnson! | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 220 Registered: 6-2006 |
Tone is all about diet and complection. I think the best tone comes from players with olive skin, who eat a lot of fish. The fish oil tends to give your calluses a somewhat spongy texture, which makes the string rebound ever so slightly dampened. Of course, fat, pale people who eat a lot of pork also have a killer tone. Again, it's the pork fat effect on your fingers and fingernails. My sound? I'm a swarthy omnivore. Alembic suits me just right. Ask yourself, have you ever heard a great tone from a vegan? I rest my case.................. JBY | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 966 Registered: 11-2004 |
jby...hmmm, is that why the majority of the funk players are chunky chaps?? I guess McDonalds has a use after all. | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 504 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hey I love Watermelon with fried chicken.........does that make me a soul-man? | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1344 Registered: 2-2005 |
"Ask yourself, have you ever heard a great tone from a vegan?" How's moderator Dave's tone? He's a vegan. :-) Keith | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 351 Registered: 1-2008 |
A couple of guys that I would have never guessed played Alembic: John McVie and Chuck Panozzo. Not a dig against those guys, but their tone just doesn't say "Alembic" to me. In those bands that "bright, zingy" sound wouldn't have worked. It just shows you how versatile Alembic's are. | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4029 Registered: 7-2004 |
"Ask yourself, have you ever heard a great tone from a vegan?" Isn't Paul McCartney a vegan? At least he was when he was on the Simpsons with Linda. Bill, tgo | ||
| chalie_holmes
Intermediate Member Username: chalie_holmes Post Number: 123 Registered: 3-2009 |
With my distillate series I can dial in whatever sound that I hear in my head. You can say that I'm the front man in the band I'm in, so when I have a solo spot, I dial in whatever seems to suit me or really fit the momentum of the band. The Alembic is such an inspirational instrument, I have seen how it affects the guys in my band when they are soloing and I change a setting, I'll see a smile and they will really get into their solo efforts. In addition, I dig the fact that I can be right in "THE MIX" without having to be in your face or overpowering | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 222 Registered: 6-2006 |
If moder Dave has great tone, and I have no reason to doubt this, he is either the exception, or he is secretly scarfing Carnitas! Honestly, I don't know what came over me with that post. I guess after reading about some of the nonsense recently on this forum, I retreated into absurdism as a sort of defense mechanism. "Hey I love Watermelon with fried chicken.........does that make me a soul-man?" Only if you play with chicken grease on your fingers! I have been away from my instruments for SEVEN days now, on vacation. I'm going through a bit of withdrawl. Peace, JBY | ||
| terryc
Senior Member Username: terryc Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2004 |
jbybj...I get the same, it is great to have a break from work etc but boy do I miss playing my MK when I am away. I don't think there is a day when I don't pick it up and play. | ||
| fc_spoiler
Senior Member Username: fc_spoiler Post Number: 950 Registered: 5-2006 |
Paul McCartney plays Mesa, the easiest way to get a great tone :-) I've had the opportunity once to hear my Spoilers next to a great '77 Series I (This one, check out the back of that headstock (!)) To my ears there's no mistake where they both came from, the "Alembic" tone is unmistakably there. The highs and lows on the Series are clearer... hard to describe :-) The best tone ever coming from my fingers was with Wilfred's "Blondie" (This one) I was really amazed how deep and clear she sounded, with a really nice tone. Since that day I'm in love with the Series I SC model, must have something to look out for once the Elan 5 is here :-) Now let me introduce to you: Alembic heavy sounds!  : Youtube link I had a slight argument with the foh man, so I was a little loud that gig...  (you can hear that great McCartney sound) Here's a link to more recordings (Live and studio recordings, will be online temporarily) That's my Alembic (and Mesa) tone :-) | ||
| hankster
Advanced Member Username: hankster Post Number: 209 Registered: 6-2004 |
To me, the great thing about the Alembic is the range of tones. When I first got my SJ, I tended to go for a sound that emphasized the bottom end, with a boost at the very top - the so-called "ass and glass" sound. As I have gotten used to it over the years, I have come to use the pickup pans and filters to change the sound up from tune to tune and genre to genre, so that I can get a midrange punchy sound when I want it, a fat-bottom sound when I want it, a zingy top-end sound when I want it - and all still unique to Alembic. The tonal palate is just wide open, and it makes playing so much more engaging. R. | ||
| llobsterbass
Member Username: llobsterbass Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2004 |
clean, clean, clean, rich fundamental. and tons of it. My little Orion 4-string sits perfectly in any mix of any style, and records better than almost any bass I've played. and is much lighter to boot. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8496 Registered: 5-2002 |
JBY; "great tone" is subjective, but if you would like to hear what my Alembic sounds like in the context of the things that I've been working on recently, there is a link in my profile. It's certainly different, and the style won't appeal to a lot of people, and the recordings were off the cuff and a bit sloppy, but I think the transparency and articulation of Alembic instruments that others have talked about in this thread are still apparent to some degree. Oh, and I'm always careful to clean the tofu grease off my fingers before I pick up the bass. |
