| Author | Message | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8904 Registered: 5-2002 |
On several occasions when we've been discussing the club, Mica has told me that the site statistics show that we get a lot more traffic here in our club than just the members. A lot of non-members stop in for a visit every day. And when you think about it, it makes sense, for most of us frequently find ourselves visiting other music related sites as well; checking out an unusual bass or guitar, looking up the specs on a power amp or speaker cab, comparing stomp boxes and rack effects. And thinking further about what sections of our board visitors might tend to read through most often, one that immediately comes to mind is the Factory To Customer section. It's easy to imagine that a bass player has from time to time heard about Alembic, but has never seen one, and when considering the purchase of a new bass might decide to type alembic.com into a browser window. This of course would take one to the main company page, where, right there on the front page, is a link to this club. So if you're considering the purchase of an Alembic bass, why not check out what owners have to say. Thus it's easy to imagine folks clicking on that link and showing up on the club front page where right there in the middle of the index is something called Factory To Customer. Now that sounds intriguing. A quick click on a link and there's a whole list of custom builds, often identified by the owner's name and a brief description of the particular instrument. Very intriguing! Quite often, I would imagine, the first choice to try will be the thread that's at the top of the list, which as we know is the thread to which the most recent post to the section has been made. It should now be clear to the members of this club that what we post to this forum, the discussions that we have, the language that we use, the opinions we express, the way we treat each other, and the way we treat our host, can make a substantial impression upon the many visitors our club receives each day, many of whom are potential customers of Alembic. Yesterday, one of the threads that is frequently at the top of the FTC section was the scene of a very unpleasant exchange that in my view reflected poorly upon our club and sullied this forum as a place for prospective bass and guitar purchasers to learn about Alembic the company and its instruments. Late last night I did something that I never wanted to do; I closed, temporarily, an FTC thread. The exchange had escalated out of control. It is understandable. As is played out every day in arenas big and small throughout the world, humans tend to take exception, to react defensively, and to go on the offensive. There are of course times when reacting quickly and instinctively is appropriate and necessary; times when taking the time to think through a situation and consider the wisest course is just not possible. But in many circumstances we do have the opportunity to think, to consider the broader implications of our actions, the consequences of escalation. There was absolutely no need for yesterday's vehement exchange. No one's life was in danger. All we are engaged in here is the appreciation and love of fine craftsmanship and high art. This place should be a sanctuary of peace, love, and understanding. It shouldn't be that difficult to treat each other with respect. But of course, it is difficult. We live in a world with enormous amounts of sensory input that push and pull us in all kinds of directions. We're constantly subject to emotional conflict; and when we sit down and log on to the Alembic club, we bring that flow of energy with us to the table. So yes, it is difficult; but recognizing that point makes it possible to breath, to center ourselves, to enjoy and appreciate the moment, the gift that is the opportunity to share this place together. I really didn't want to close an FTC thread. In my view, an FTC thread, like a Showcase thread, is special. As we have seen countless times, an FTC thread is a unique experience for the instrument's new owner. An FTC thread should be afforded the highest respect and courtesy of any section of this board. An FTC thread is an opportunity for the new owner to share in the creation of their instrument; an instrument that oftentimes represents much planning, much soul searching, and much financial consideration. An FTC thread can be an emotional experience, and understandably so. So, the point of this post is to remind ourselves of the need to be respectful of each other and of our host. Your day after leaving this site is enhanced when your experience here has been enjoyable; your day after leaving here is made more difficult when your experience here has been unpleasant. Each of us has the opportunity here in a very real and tangible sense to make the world a better place. How we treat each other has a ripple effect in that the people we interact with subsequently interact with others. If you think there is a problem here on our board that needs addressing, feel free to email me about it. If you feel the need to react vociferously to someone's errant post, then please stop, breath, and think. Thank you for reading. The day here today is magical. The wind is swirling and gusting through and around the cove, the boughs with their brightly colored leaves dance and sway, the air is warm, flowing and tangible; a precious and exquisite gift of experience for which I am most thankful. Enjoy this precious moment where ever you are and what ever your circumstances. | ||
| pierreyves
Senior Member Username: pierreyves Post Number: 478 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thank's Dave, you are so right. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 366 Registered: 1-2008 |
Dave... just a FYI: ALL the FTC threads are closed. | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8907 Registered: 5-2002 |
Mike; are they still closed? | ||
| davehouck
Moderator Username: davehouck Post Number: 8908 Registered: 5-2002 |
Pierre-Yves; thank you. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 367 Registered: 1-2008 |
I've been following that thread from the beginning and had anticipated it "blowing-up" at some point. Everyone needs to remember that (like all the other threads) you don't have to go there and you certainly don't have to post. Hopefully Dave will feel comfortable opening it back up in a few days. | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 368 Registered: 1-2008 |
Yea, they are still all closed. | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1419 Registered: 2-2005 |
It just worked for me. | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 558 Registered: 12-2004 |
Ive knoticed my thread "the alembic report" on stanley's forum gets the most visits of all topics which i think is a good thing so we must show class! http://www.stanleyclarke.com/interactive/forumdisplay.php?fid=5 | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 369 Registered: 1-2008 |
All open now... | ||
| andbassforall
Member Username: andbassforall Post Number: 71 Registered: 9-2008 |
Amen Dave, The FTC thread is the most engrossing part of the site in my opinion. I'm always looking through it, and if someone is around me, they get into it as well. | ||
| jakebass
Member Username: jakebass Post Number: 91 Registered: 7-2007 |
Dave, as always your moderation on an issue is exemplary and I hope will give rise to goodness in the consideration of the reader. With that in mind I have some thoughts which if you can bear I would like to share. What is unusual (to my mind) about the Alembic forum is that it is not simply a forum that is for and about people interested in the instruments, it is much more. It's a members club (without ownership as a prerequisite) for lovers of the worlds finest basses. Much more than that, as you so well pointed out, as a vein in the body of the brand it is very close to an artery which directly feeds the heart of what we all enjoy so deeply. So I would echo your sentiment that being so close to the beating heart it is incumbent upon us all to behave as though we are representatives (albeit in a small sector) of the company. Alembic has given birth to that situation by having the club so closely related to it's main web presence (the website). With that in mind I ask you to consider that it's an ideal that we would all behave in such fine fashion all of the time. As you point out from time to time we bring other energies to the board. If you accept my point that the desire for constant peace is an ideal then perhaps you can accept that it is in fact idealistic. Again, if you accept, then we can identify a potential problem (occasional unruliness) and I'm sure you'll agree that problems are best approached with solutions. I have one to offer. I am a member of another forum, that (bass related) forum has a section that is only seen by members that are logged in. If such a section were available here and the membership were all (individually by email) asked to promise faithfully that any personally related discourse is strictly limited to that section then it's possible that Alembic could enjoy a buffer between the trials and tribulations of it's club membership and it's public face. We all should be able to agree hand on heart that the very last purpose of any post here would be to damage the reputation of the very thing for which we attend this club... Alembic itself. I hope these thoughts of mine don't overstep any mark, and are useful for the consideration of all the members here. A concerned member. Jake | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 370 Registered: 1-2008 |
In an ideal world that shouldn't be necessary, but given the frequency of such exchanges... not a bad idea. You could call it "A Place to Vent" or "Flax's House of Smack"!!! A potential problem would be the very real possibility that such an area would ENCOURAGE bad behavior. I set-up my groups website and I did a similar thing. I have an "All Access" area for partners and employees, but I have a discussion board (similar to this) that is limited to partners. That way the employees are not exposed to the internal squabbling that inevitably occurs. (Message edited by mike1762 on October 24, 2009) | ||
| gregduboc
Advanced Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 228 Registered: 11-2008 |
I don't know Jake... It is really a good idea... But I strongly believe it would encourage people to get personal. That is the way I'm seeing it. There is that sort of section of the club in which you can discuss greater things, other than Alembic and Alembic-related topics: Emails. Folks, let's do it for our friends at Alembic. If it is personal, or anyway possibly provocative or offensive, keep it to emails. This has been said many times before, and encouraged a lot. But we are forgetting that. Think twice before you write a "different" post. It may be misunderstood by other members. Let's keep the peace going, and let's show everybody, members or not, that we can keep a peaceful forum, that everyone can enjoy, and that everyone will want to be part of! Greg | ||
| toma_hawk01
Advanced Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 220 Registered: 9-2009 |
If I could add, I believe FTC should be open to everyone, but posting comments be permission granted or denied. It is the most single most important area to Alembics trust, and I believe it should be protected by the most technological means necessary. Otherwise, I believe this will happen again in the future. There are people out there with evil motives and cynical ambitions. People are coming from the streets, who have no vested interest whether we prevail as a united club or not. It's hard to reason with such people, when they add nothing, but take away everything. So, if I could have a wish, I would make FTC open for everybody to read and see, but special provisions for allowing comments. However if this is not possible, I would at least allow those members who are having their instruments made, granted the abilities to edit outlandish comments, and quietly move forward, without drawing attention to themselves, and most importantly -- the time and energy it takes to expose the wrongdoers. Too much time and energy is taken away, calling for help, and trying to understand the "rights and wrongs" in trying to figure out the causes of these problems. Like I said, wrongdoers have no vested interest in peace, they only wish to distract and act foolishly and disrespectful to us. Foolishness, is what they do. They love to confuse hearts and minds, and act as if their rights should be understood or examined. When it comes to FTC, I am not convinced of simply doing nothing. I believe a solution must be done. As it stands with me personally, I am not going to have another bass made in the future through a FTC. I am going to request private emails and thus prevent wrongdoers from entering the history of my basses. If people will not respect others, we are incumbent to find another way to get things done without the disrespectful remarks. It's a game to these people, they are sick. Therefore, we must all take a stand and shake the tree, or these people will strip away our rights and enjoyments of sanity. Allowing customers greater rights on their FTC's is a solution, thus preventing mole hills from turning into mountains and valleys of confusion. Love me, or hate me, I am a member for life, and I want to see this forum continue to shine. Sorry to be honest, but we are all getting too old for this kind of discussion. But, FTC is too important, not to address a constructive solution which benefits good people, without taking away their rights because of the wrongdoers. FTC customers should have some controls to prevent something like this from happening again. Hal- (Message edited by toma_hawk01 on October 24, 2009) | ||
| mike1762
Advanced Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 371 Registered: 1-2008 |
I'm somewhat familiar with this type software. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to assign unique "permission" groups to individual threads. You could probably make the whole FTC section "Read Only", but that's not really the point of the FTC. Let's just keep it to Oohing and Aahing and remember that those threads are VERY personal to the person having an instrument built. If the thread somehow offends your sensibilities... don't click on it. | ||
| pace
Senior Member Username: pace Post Number: 443 Registered: 4-2004 |
I feel that the current format is just fine. Club members so far have been really good at self-policing. When Mica started adding Changes/Additions threads to the FTC folders, there was a mutual understanding that we shouldn't post our oohhs and aaahhs there as to not distract from the important details. So far so good..... I realize that we occasionally might need reminders on manners, but I also feel that Dave doesn't need to explain his actions every time something occurs. Edit the thread, e-mail those involved, and avoid the rubber-necking. That's just my opinion.  | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1317 Registered: 9-2002 |
When I had my custom built, I worked out with Val and Mica and Susan just what I wanted, then told them call me when it's ready to ship. I had no FTC thread. Not because I had any interest in being secretive, but for two reasons, actually: 1) Because I'd seen more than a few of these things turn into the kind of panicked screed of the type Dave had to intervene upon above (he's regrettably had to do this before). 2) And you know, why would I presume to tell them how to build my bass, since they do this every day to great success? Why would I tell Michael Schumacher how to drive, or tell Valentino Rossi how to ride a motorcycle? I came to ALEMBIC as I knew I would NOT have to worry that they didn't get it. I preferred to finalize my build recipe, then stay out of their way. So . . . Susan calls me 11 months later, shipped to me. I opened it, and it was exactly what I asked for. Exactly. Just as I knew it would be. This is supposed to be fun, folks. But don't wear out the Wickersham's graciousness in establishing this two-way conversation, as this is VERY rare. Use your head and remember your manners. As always, my hat's off to Dave for his near Buddha-like even-handedness in herding us all around. | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 1125 Registered: 3-2004 |
I agree with bigred. I took my own advice. Typed out a response and deleted it. On a different note, I had a brief chat with Pete Steele of Type O Negative about his Alembics before the Nokia show. 83 Spoiler was his first and mine as well. But he is a foot taller than me at least! | ||
| mario_farufyno
Advanced Member Username: mario_farufyno Post Number: 331 Registered: 9-2008 |
Well, I always regret taking part on any altercation, but I like the idea of having free expression even if it take us trough our differences. First, I don't think nothing really big had happen on that Thread, despite the fact I was the one who protested first time (in fact, in second or third, to be honest). But I simply didn't thought it would take all that proportions. Guys, there is no situation we can't solve talking each other. I'm sorry if this bothered Hal and all the spiritual mood he is trying to keep around his creation, but I don't think it should be taken much seriously. This is something that happens on any community, we just need to take some time to get it togheter again. We all share at least one common love, and that must be enough to take us to understandment. It doesn't matter if this is time consuming or trouble our peace sometimes, we all have to deal with that on regular basis at our own home, family or work place... So, what's the deal? Lets meet, lets exchange ideas, lets fight for them and lets get together again. We are a sort of family here. We don't need to love every one, just learn how to live in peace and respectfully. If something goes wrong, we fix it with love, not excluding anyone. Sorry if I contributed to get the things worst back there. Next time I will let that with Dave... |
