| Author | Message | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2006 |
First I want to qualify this post by saying that I am an audio professional. Since 1986 I have been mixing, EQ'ing, processing, restoring, remastering, and in many ways, tweaking audio. I am steeped in a wide variety of hardware and software designed to manipulate audio. I am about three weeks into discovering my SF-2, and I am astounded. This is the coolest, most useful, spectacular sounding, and unique audio processing device I have ever used. I am hooked, and don't think I can easily be without it ever again. If you ever have the opportunity to obtain one, do not hesitate. | ||
| hydrargyrum
Senior Member Username: hydrargyrum Post Number: 686 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hey James, Glad to hear you're enjoying the SF-2. I know I am going to miss it someday, but it just wasn't getting used. Best wishes. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1320 Registered: 9-2002 |
James, for those of us who've never been around one, could you say just what it is about these things that guys invariably come back raving about them? I see by your profile that you're indeed an audio professional (Culver City . . . post production?) and it's interesting you've spent three weeks 'discovering' it, when I'd guess most new gear takes you about 5 minutes to figure out. I basically understand the filter concept, and that these things do not rotate phase at all. But just WHAT is it about it, WHAT does it do that's impressed you so much? I'm at a dead end sonically at the moment. I can NOT find a neutral sound. Every amp/cabinet I run across is one of two things, either 1) That 'modern' bass sound, snarky, SWR-ish, all snap and roundwound bite, but not much warmth, or 2) Lumpy, Ampeg flip-top-ish, organ-pedal mush, Nyquil-like bass tone. I just want something in the middle. J o e y | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 241 Registered: 6-2006 |
"James, for those of us who've never been around one, could you say just what it is about these things that guys invariably come back raving about them? " I'll try.............. Everything you do with it, sounds cleaner, tighter, more defined, more real, less distorted, clouded, obfuscated, than with other EQ devices. "it's interesting you've spent three weeks 'discovering' it, when I'd guess most new gear takes you about 5 minutes to figure out. " I understood all the controls within minutes, what I am discovering is the wide range of results that are possible with these controls. "I basically understand the filter concept, and that these things do not rotate phase at all. But just WHAT is it about it, WHAT does it do that's impressed you so much? " Firstly, I am using it in mono, tried both as a line I/O in an effects loop, and as an instrument preamp. So I am blending three signals, dry and two filters. I think you hit the most crucial aspect of this device with respect to PHASE, or timing of the combined signals. A digression. For the last couple of years, my company has been working with Plangent, a guy on the east coast who developed "Clarity". Clarity is a highly precise digital process that corrects timing errors, wow and flutter, that have been induced by mechanical audio transfers. Start with a high sample rate digitization, analyze and correct the wow and flutter, then output a rock solidly timed version of the source. The results can be startling. The source can be a beautiful sounding three track stereo recording of an orchestra, that on first listen has very high fidelity. The Clarity track will sound like the orchestra has moved from a 5 foot deep stage, to a 40 foot deep stage, high percussive sounds seem to bloom out of nowhere. This process adds NOTHING to the signal, it simply retimes the samples. By correcting the timing/phase of the audio, everything becomes more defined, more "real" and less recorded sounding. Of course it also corrects gross wow that can be an issue with old magnetic film, but not important to this discussion. So while a good eq can sound pleasing when engaged properly, most EQ's induce phase errors. Phase errors, cloud the definition and clarity of the signal. The SF-2 appears to avoid that. Rooms are real good at mucking up phase. We have all experienced a significant loss in low frequency definition,when the right combination of bass/amp/and room come together, so that you can't even tell what note is being played. With the SF-2, (so far only in my home, jamming next Saturday!) my Traynor Bassmaster, and a single EVM-15L, I can make the most bombastic, enormous, sternum shattering lows, that still sound clean and defined. I have never achieved this before. It sounds like Tony Levin with Gabriel in a huge room. He had some clean bigness going on. So, to repeat myself, Everything you do with it, sounds cleaner, tighter, more defined, more real, less distorted, clouded, obfuscated, than with other EQ devices. "I'm at a dead end sonically at the moment. I can NOT find a neutral sound. Every amp/cabinet I run across is one of two things, either 1) That 'modern' bass sound, snarky, SWR-ish, all snap and roundwound bite, but not much warmth, or 2) Lumpy, Ampeg flip-top-ish, organ-pedal mush, Nyquil-like bass tone. I just want something in the middle." One thing you might consider, is a 15" with a broad response, and no tweeter. An EVM -15L plays out to about 6K, I've always loved that speaker. I haven't ever played one but I think there are some old JBL's that would fit this description I hope this has been helpful, good luck, JBY | ||
| 2400wattman
Senior Member Username: 2400wattman Post Number: 749 Registered: 11-2005 |
What a wonderful description. I don't have the tech savvy and jargon to describe exactly what it does. However, I know what I like and my Aguilar DB 680 was replaced with the F1-X and SF-2 combo. The Aguilar is a killer pre amp with multiple routing options, x-over, efx loop with dry/wet blend knobs and controls for high and low for the x-over...and a ten pre amp tubes running through the whole damn thing. Why would I want to replace it? Nothing on this planet sounds like or will ever sound like an SF-2. GET DOWN gentlemen! | ||
| ajdover
Senior Member Username: ajdover Post Number: 763 Registered: 11-2003 |
All I know is this: I put an SF-2 in my signal chain, plugged in my Rick 4001, and I sounded (though didn't play like!) like Geddy, Chris Squire, etc. I've had mine for a few years now, and I can confidently say it makes anything you plug into it that much better. I'm not a technical guy, so I can't speak to that ... but ... if you're looking for tone that you can't get right now, try an SF-2. You won't be disappointed. Trust me. Alan (Message edited by ajdover on November 04, 2009) | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1321 Registered: 9-2002 |
The more I learn the less I know. Thanks, James. Now . . . Interestingly, all I've thought of is going to a single 15 because: I've suspected all along that these multiple 10 cabinets induce some sort of 'crossing' distortion, maybe a comb-filtering effect from the combination of drivers (including the idiot horns these things run). Or is it just me? 6k is PLENTY for bass guitar. Can I get a Standing Wave Merit Badge? J o e y | ||
| keith_h
Senior Member Username: keith_h Post Number: 1428 Registered: 2-2005 |
Maybe 6k is too much range for you. The old JBL K140 had a frequency response of something like 40Hz to 2.5K Hz. As I recall they had an effective range of up to 3-3.5K Hz. They are still my favorite sounding speaker. They were also designed with a lower mid-range bump but I can't remember the frequency. I tried to look it up in my old JBL design documentation but can't locate it. The curves might still be available on the JBL site if you are interested. I had a talk with a JBL engineer a few years back and he did tell me they have a newer speaker with similar characteristics to the K140 but the model escapes me. Keith | ||
| georgie_boy
Senior Member Username: georgie_boy Post Number: 990 Registered: 8-2005 |
Just another question.....from a geek.! So....if I use a SF2..then plug it in to my Eden Navigator...............will this give me so many variations that I need to take a degree in rocket science.....or am I getting it all wrong? Too many tonal combinations.....especially on stage, can be more of a hindrence than a boost! It's bad (good) enough as it is with "just" the S1 and the Navigator......do I NEED all this?? G | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1116 Registered: 11-2004 |
Joey, In terms of a single 15- have you tried the Bag End 15's? Tone is pretty subjective and can be difficult to describe, but the Bag Ends tend to sound very musical and warm to my ears. Lots of Alembic players seem to play them, I think because they tend to add that bit of warmth to all the sparkle and brightness that you can get out of an Alembic if you want. I've had Bag Ends and have gone to other speakers (Eden, GK, homemade cabs, Ashdown), but have always gone back to Bag Ends. | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 243 Registered: 6-2006 |
"Too many tonal combinations.....especially on stage, can be more of a hindrence than a boost! It's bad (good) enough as it is with "just" the S1 and the Navigator......do I NEED all this?? " Georgie, it's not about NEED, it's about joy. Never having played a series instrument, I can only imagine that you have a good portion of what an SF-2 would bring to the table. I have yet to play out with my SF-2, but it seems like all my other eq's in the chain will remain static and the SF-2 is what I will adjust. I have landed on half a dozen settings that I could just sit back and play through for some time. I would guess that whatever amount of tweaking you did before an SF-2 would not change much, you would just be tweaking a different knob. And as mentioned earlier by ajdover, every non-Alembic bass I have plugged into it sounds way better. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1322 Registered: 9-2002 |
Toby, I've never been around the BagEnds to test drive any. Do you use the smaller 15 cabinets, or their 'deep' version? Do yours have that concentric high drive? Georgie, I have an Eden Metro (Sheesh what a mistake THAT was) and it's got way more EQ than I've been able to master, and a Navigator has more still. I can't imagine trying to loop a SuperFilter through it and not needing Tylenols from tweaking headaches. * * * * First it was Jimmy talking about using just the house monitors and never having an amp. Then I was in Sam Ash the other day and tried one of the new Bassman TV's with the fifteen and a very simple, passive tone circuit. So I'm off into this 'simple-is-better' riff, I guess. . . the endless search. J o e y | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 477 Registered: 5-2009 |
I am used to using a parametric equalizer such as the original Furman PQ-3 of which I still own 2 units. These were sold at the old Alembic location at 60 Brady St. in San Francisco back in the 1970's . I remember having been introduced to Jim Furman himself there. I also have an NEI model 342 Parametric and a T.C. Electronic TC2240 Parametric Equalizer/Preamplifier. It is a standard procedure to calibrate the room response using white and pink noise with a piece of equipment called a " REAL TIME ANALYZER' aka RTA in large venues for EQ attenuation of the FOH system , That is where one EARNS ones 'STANDING WAVE MERIT BADGE", lol ! I am looking forward to soon buying an SF-2. (Message edited by sonicus on November 06, 2009) | ||
| tbrannon
Senior Member Username: tbrannon Post Number: 1117 Registered: 11-2004 |
Joey- I have the regular S15. Bag End makes things confusing (to me) by adding a B or D on there for Birch or Deep Red carpet (ie S15-B or S15-D). Mine happen to be some of the earlier black carpeted ones. They aren't the deeper cabinets (S15-X), and I've never played through one of those. I don't know what the 'concentric high drive' is- mine are just rear ported 15's. Dunno if that helps at all... =) You can see 'em here:  | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 254 Registered: 9-2004 |
I gig and practice with the same EV 15 inch and have to say it is the best. Oddly enough, I pulled it out of an old LAB series L9 guitar amp to replace a JBL 15 inch that blew. No comparison! That EV is the best. I also recently bought an SF-2. "The Swiss Army knife of tone". It's full of sounds that still sound like my bass, but run the gamut of tone. I wonder what other things I can do with it beside bass guitar? Dave | ||
| lbpesq
Senior Member Username: lbpesq Post Number: 4145 Registered: 7-2004 |
An SF-2 also works great for regular guitar. Bill, tgo | ||
| jseitang
Advanced Member Username: jseitang Post Number: 278 Registered: 6-2002 |
it works amazingly with synths too. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 462 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'm still thinking about putting my SF-2 directly inside my Starfire. It's got an ACG preamp in there now, which sounds great, but the frequency sweep isn't quite enough and you can't blend back in the unfiltered tone (which I think is crucial to the SF-2 magic). Edwin | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 244 Registered: 6-2006 |
I would like to see pictures of that! | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 496 Registered: 5-2009 |
Here is my old Guild Starfire with Pluto Filters.I sold this Bass around 1978.   | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2006 |
Gooollly, I guess you can fit an SF-2 inside there. But then you couldn't use the SF-2 on other instruments, but it would be pretty cool. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 466 Registered: 5-2002 |
Yeah, that's pretty much it. I've found that I don't use it that much on other instruments and it would just be great to have it all in there. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1760 Registered: 6-2002 |
I could imagine an SF-2 in a bass would sound amazing. Will you be using the Series instrument PSU to power it? Jazzyvee | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 467 Registered: 5-2002 |
I haven't worked out the power requirements, but as currently designed (no pun intended!), it uses a 15 volt power supply that seems a little less robust than the Series power supplies. However, if it ever happens, I would probably just build something that seems appropriate. I've also been thinking about how to work the signal flow, whether to mix the pickups before the filters or have one filter per pickups (which seems like the better way to go). There might be switching I could do that would be able to go both ways. | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 256 Registered: 9-2004 |
Maybe there is room in a Gibson RD bass after pulling the Moog electronics out? | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 661 Registered: 1-2005 |
The SF-2 is so cool! For one thing, it provides such a beautiful deep bass with the low-pass filter. Using one of the filters in hi-pass mode, you can get some great, sparkling highs that you didn't even know existed! (Well, you knew if your bass was an Alembic, but as someone else posted the SF-2 can bring out sounds in other instruments that are impossible otherwise) The band-pass filter lets you focus in, for example if there are some mid-freqs you want to accentuate. I have a recording of my Rickenbacker 8-string that just isn't quite jumping out in the mix, so I'm going to experiment with routing the signal through the SF-2. | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 246 Registered: 6-2006 |
Harry, I have found the band pass is also excellent in the low frequencies, somewhere around 80 to 100 hz can really bring out a tight low boom. I don't know how wide the pass band is but at that setting it seems like it is affecting to the low E at least. JBY | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 667 Registered: 1-2005 |
JBY that's a great idea! I've generally just used the low-pass filter for the low frequencies, but then you are boosting sub-bass frequencies that aren't even necessarily useful. I did the re-recording of my Ric 8-string - here's a pic of the settings I used:  The filter setting that got cut off on the right was set to high-pass. | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 675 Registered: 1-2005 |
Thought I would post the two videos so you can hear the difference: original new & improved SUPERFILTER version! Volume is probably also a factor - for some reason I was shy with the bass volume when I made the original video, but I think you can also hear the increased clarity in the second video. For best results listen on headphones or good speakers, although part of the reason I redid it was so that it would sound better on computer speakers. | ||
| pauldo
Advanced Member Username: pauldo Post Number: 356 Registered: 6-2006 |
Yeah Harry - The new and improved is sweet. I have been hinting really hard to "Santa" that I need an SF-2. | ||
| chalieholmes
New Username: chalieholmes Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2009 |
Hey Pauldo, Good Luck in getting Santa to get you that SuperFilter! I have had mine over 5 yrs now, I have just added it to my rig now. I'll get some photos as soon as I find my camera! Happy Holidays | ||
| jbybj
Advanced Member Username: jbybj Post Number: 250 Registered: 6-2006 |
"Thought I would post the two videos so you can hear the difference:" Nice jam. And yes, the new & improved version sounds sweet. Thanks for sharing JBY | ||
| briant
Advanced Member Username: briant Post Number: 386 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Thought I would post the two videos so you can hear the difference:" See... why did you go and do that? Now I want one. Badly. | ||
| eligilam
Advanced Member Username: eligilam Post Number: 215 Registered: 2-2006 |
I looooove that Ric 8 string!!!...Any available pics of it? The "second video" tone is amazing as well...very Roundaboutish. I think I'll put both a Ric 8 and an SF2 on my Chrismakwaanzakah wish list this year... | ||
| hieronymous
Senior Member Username: hieronymous Post Number: 676 Registered: 1-2005 |
Here's a higher quality mp3 of the audio track: 8-string jam - new & improved SUPERFILTER version Listening to it now, I'm almost hesitant to post it - with the better quality you can also hear all my gaffs! I think I'll start an 8-string thread in the "miscellaneous" section... (EDIT: done!) (Message edited by hieronymous on November 28, 2009) | ||
| toma_hawk01
Advanced Member Username: toma_hawk01 Post Number: 357 Registered: 9-2009 |
I want a SF. |
