| Author | Message | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2003 |
I recently picked up a used SC Deluxe and had not put a strap on the bass until yesterday only to be very surprised and rather disappointed that I have to hold the neck up while playing. The neck takes an immediate dive toward the floor if I let go. It never gets that far down but it is difficult to play while holding the neck up. this is not the case while playing sitting down. It is discouraging to think that a design flaw like this would get out of the factory. Is this a trait of this bass in general. Do all SC signature owners deal with this affliction? I have seen this in cheap Fender knockoffs but never in a good bass and could not imagine this in a bass of this caliber. I really hope that there is a fix of some sort as I just hate holding the weight of the neck while trying to play. I guess I could hang a brick off the back of the bass! Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. thanks, greg | ||
| jazzyvee
Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 63 Registered: 6-2002 |
Well you are not alone in noticing this. I have the SC Deluxe and wrote in about this as well. There was a discussion thread on this very subject a while ago Which you could do a search on to find other solutions to this. To be honest when I first got the bass it really got on my nerves but now I've got used to the bass and i've reached a point that i'm automatically adjustng it and i don't really see it as a major problem any more. It would be nice not to have to adjust though. I guess it's the small body size vs the length of the neck and the place where the strap button sits at the base of the neck. Mica did tell me in an email at the time that even if you moved the strap button to the top body horn, it wouldn't be any better. Solutions seem to be, get a wide strap with a good gripping surface or rest your forearm along the top of the body, or turn sideways and rest the bass on the top of your hip rather than along the front of your torso body. I'm sure others will give you good advice. Anyway how do you like the sound of the bass :-) | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 270 Registered: 6-2002 |
It always sounds strange to me whenever I hear this, because I never noticed this with my short scale small body Series I. I've always played large heavy basses - some 6 strings with 36" scale. Those I always find a real wrestling match to play - but sooooooo worth it in sound! When I pick up my little "toy" Alembic, it feels tiny and I don't notice the balance problem. Maybe it may have to do with how you hold it or your playing technique. - Just a thought. - Rami | ||
| dannobasso
Intermediate Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 104 Registered: 7-2002 |
I found with my SC deluxe that I wear it high with a wide padded strap. It is very different from my spoilers and excels but it sounds great! I really have a problem with my 34' spoiler exploiter. It has the same placement of the strap on the neck. The left arm has to be quite extended. But again it sounds great. Hell, they all sound great. I do prefer the strap to be on the upper horn but one must adapt and perservere! Stiff upper strap and all that rot! Check out how Stanley wears his. | ||
| malthumb
Intermediate Member Username: malthumb Post Number: 138 Registered: 5-2002 |
Greg, I have owned an SC Deluxe, as well as small bodied Series I and Series II instruments. I've used each of the methods previously described, with great success. With my small bodies, I tended to strap them up fairly high on my body. Because of the weight (SC basses are pretty heavy, especially considering how small they are) I used wide straps with some sort of grabby material (usually fleece) on the underside. For my larger basses (Mark King point body, Series I Omega body) I've tended to wear them at an average height, but occasionally off to the side of my hip to minimize long reaches in 1st and 2nd position. You won't have that issue with your short scale bass, but with 34" scale (or longer) Alembics, the fact that the fretboard attaches so far out of the body can make for some long stretches. Peace, James | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks to all for the feedback. I guess this is something that people just accept. Seems a bit odd that Alembic has not tried to fix this in the design. If they made the peg head smaller and narrowed the neck just a pinch I bet they could reduce the weight enough to make it less of an issue. The issue could never be totally addressed this way but a few ounces just might keep the neck from taking a dive for the floor. I guess I'll have to just get used to it. I do like the sound of the SC but the strings are so worn out that there is little tone left in them at all. The previous owner never changed them. And the truss rod nuts were so loose they were rattling. I have been waiting for about 10 days for some strings to show up from Alembic. I have not yet found a string supplier that carries short scale strings in the Los Angeles/Orange County area but I know there are some. | ||
| dela217
Advanced Member Username: dela217 Post Number: 244 Registered: 6-2002 |
I think that Alembic never tried to fix this problem, because there is nothing wrong! I have been playing small bodied Alembics for 25 years. I guess that I have incorporated the balance issue into my playing style. It really is not difficult to get used to. Instead of trying to hold the bass up with your fretting hand, simply anchor the body of the bass in place with the forearm of your picking/plucking hand. It makes for a natural wrist curve on my right hand and my left hand does not hold the bass up at all. I have gotten so used to playing this way that when I try a bass that has a Fenderesque shape to it, I find that it has a balance problem! I just cannot get used to the strap button on the horn of a bass. You just need to re-evaluate your technique and stop playing your Alembic like your Fender. As far as the wide strap goes, I think that the extra width does not really help with balance. I does help distribute the weight of the bass over a wider area. Just give it a little time, I promise you will love it! | ||
| bigbadbill
Junior Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 39 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi all and a Merry Christmas! Unfortunately the balance issue (which I've addressed before in another thread) turned out to be a fairly major problem for me too, and its something I didn't get used to over the course of 2 years. I've always played very well balanced basses before, and the initial balance did seem peculiar; however I did think at first that I could live with it. Unfortunately I was wrong. I do have back and neck problems anyway (mechanical back problem and cervical spondylosis)which mean that any vaguely uncomfortable bass becomes a bit of a nightmare at the best of times, but over time I just found the SC impossible, and eventually had to give up playing it standing up altogether. If you wear it high it does alleviate the problem somewhat, but unfortunately that was out of the question for me because wearing it there severely aggravated my upper back problems. It was a real shame because in all other ways I loved the bass, but upon custom ordering another bass I sold the SC on e-bay. Ironically the guy who bought it found it so uncomfortable that he sold it on within the week! As has been stated, the way you play will have a great bearing on this problem, and it will bother some people more than others according to their style and physique. The only thing I could suggest is to consider having something made similar to the "extension" on the Bolin bass, which could attach to the place where the strap button is currently, but which extends out to give a different strap attachment position. This may be a little extreme though; I guess it depends how much you like the bass! Otherwise its just simple physics I'm afraid, and it's either learn to live with it or move on. I don't personally feel its a design fault; its just that balance in this instance was probably considered secondary to aesthetics. | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 271 Registered: 6-2002 |
The fact that this design has stood the test of time (30 years or so) means that it has been somewhat successful. As has been stated earlier, it depends on many variables as to whether or not this is the Bass for you. It's not a design flaw, this is how it is! There are many Basses out there that may or may not suit your style. You have to shop around. | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 18 Registered: 12-2003 |
I have made a few adjustments in the way I play this bass. I normally do not play a bass high on the body but I do this one - I shortend the strap by at least 12" compared to my other basses. This does not solve the problem but it makes it easier to hold with the right forearm. I have also adopted camera strap technology into the guitar strap. The width of the strap is irrelevant - Professional camera straps incorporate thin rubber strips (picture lines running the length of the strap). Since my other expensive habit is photography (I am very much an amature), I took an extra strap and cut the shoulder section out and had it sewn into a guitar strap. You don't notice it's there but the rubber helps to prevent the bass from causing the strap to easily slide on your shoulder. I have not had any issue switching from the Alembic back to my other basses. I can make the minor switch in playing style without issue. Although I still feel that balance is important I can overlook it in this case. Now that I have spent a couple of days adjusting the neck/bridge/nut/intonation and have everything dialed in corectly, the bass finally has that sweet ringing tone and sustain that was totally missing when I received it from the previous owner. The battery was dead as well - and he said he played it all the time. I am anxious for the strings to get here so I can hear what the bass is supposed to sound like. I think I saved the fretboard just in time - it was showing signs of very early stages of checking/cracking but a complete cleaning and several applicaitons of pure lemon oil seem to have restored it. I did sand it lightly with a 1200 grain wet/dry paper and that helped as well. greg | ||
| rami
Advanced Member Username: rami Post Number: 272 Registered: 6-2002 |
That's great news Greg. And if nobody said it earlier, CONGRATULATIONS on the purchase of your Alembic. About the strings, forgive me for mentioning this, but Fender sell short scale strings - decent strings, great price - model 5250, cat.#073-5250-002 Nickle plated steels. Not bad. | ||
| kungfusheriff
Junior Username: kungfusheriff Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2003 |
Chalk up another congratulations...I hope to re-join the Alembic fold soon as well. Keep your fingers crossed for me, if'n you please... If you have a taste for flats that sing instead of thump, Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats come in short-scale sets. They're pricey and very low-tension but once you figure out how to use them you'll probably love them. I get mine from Steve "Dude" Barr (www.vintagebass.com). He's rude as hell during downtime but a professional and VERY speedy businessman for his customers. | ||
| davehouck
Advanced Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 284 Registered: 5-2002 |
Shawn; technically, Thomastik's "short" scale are labeled as 32" scale length, which we of course consider medium scale. Alembic's "short" scale strings are made for 30.75" scale length. I don't have a short scale Alembic so I have no idea how the 32" TI's would do; but I'm guessing someone around here must have tried them on an SC model. When I first got my 32" Spoiler a month and a half ago, I took off the strings that were on it and put on a set of new long scale D'Addario's I had sitting around. Today I put on a new set of TI 32" scale Jazz Rounds; and Shawn you are right, they will take some getting used to. After I reset the intonation, I'm thinking I may have to raise the action just a little. Lots of experimentation ahead. | ||
| jazzyvee
Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2002 |
I got some alembic short scale strings from http://www.juststrings.com/alembicelectricbassguitar.html and they arrived in the UK within 4 days. and they were cheaper than from the alembic on-line shop. I think I paid $25 per set. I did try some rotosound strings and elites but didn't like them so I decided to stick with alembics. | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 21 Registered: 12-2003 |
thanks for the tips on strings - I'll check them out. And thanks for the congrats. I have waited a long time and frankly since I am no longer actively playing (live) I have no real justification for buying this bass expect that I can so I did - oh well, I'm not getting any younger so might as well. Dave, If you can get away with using long scale strings you should try the D'Addario's EXP coated roundwound. I use them on my other basses both fretted and fretless - I always use roundwound - The coating is barely noticeable and the tone is very nice not to mention the life of the strings is doubled from what I can tell. D'Addario makes the strings for Elixer so the D'Addario's are virtually the same string. No need to adjust string hight etc. unless you go to a dramatically different gauge. then I think most of the adjustment is at the nut. greg | ||
| davehouck
Advanced Member Username: davehouck Post Number: 286 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks Greg; I've been looking forward to getting a set of TI's for a while. So I'm going to have fun playing with 'em. | ||
| bishopqdog
Member Username: bishopqdog Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2003 |
greg the balance on the SC is quite different and not at all what I'm use to. I didn't know about the balance issue before I had mine made this year. But, It's too beautiful to give up. I've decided to live with it and not let a wonderful instrument slip through my fingers. | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 22 Registered: 12-2003 |
I am learning to live with it but it does cause back problems if I don't get it just right - so I guess I'll have to see how it is in the long run. I may end up selling it and looking for a series I or II or possibly a spyder. Those look like they are well balanced. I am OK with the SC as long as the back problems are minimal. I have ordered a strap that has neopreme in it that may help with the slippage on the shoulder - I'll let the group know if this is an answer for those that find this bass to cause back problems. | ||
| thebass
Member Username: thebass Post Number: 83 Registered: 3-2003 |
I never played a SC but I recall playing with a guitarist who favoured the Gibson SG which has the same balance proplem. he solved it by attaching the strap to the lower horn instead of the upper horn. Looks a bit strange first but it solved the problem. May be this works for a SC model too ? | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2003 |
I gave that a thought a few days ago but decided that the problem would still be there simply due to the fact that the body is so small and there is nothing that can make up for the difference in weight. I'm getting used to it but I have noticed that if I sit in a chair or stool it is fine, if I sit on a couch I have real neck problems after a few hours. I shouldn't be sitting there for a few hours at a time but can't put it down! | ||
| daveski1
New Username: daveski1 Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2003 |
I bought the bass that big bad bill sold to a guy who sold it to me a week later cos he couldnt get used to it.Wear it high, very high and i find the problem doesnt come into the equation and having been playing a mark king model for the last five years i actually find the stanley clarke model a breath of fresh air as its incredibley light in comparision and the scale length means no more awkward stretches near the nut.Oh and anyone having problems with obtaining short scale strings dont bother i just string mine with what i use on the m.k.model,long scale 30,50,70,90 and they sound superb and i think are near impossible to buy in this gauge,short scale. | ||
| bracheen
Member Username: bracheen Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2003 |
I buy strings from www.juststrings.com If they don't have what you're looking for good luck finding it. They're pretty quick with delivery and have good prices. Congratulations on getting the SC. Hope things work out for you. I have an Epic that doesn't have balance problems at all but it's still more comfortable when sitting to be in a firm chair or stool rather that the soft sofa. If the chair has arms that also makes me sit awkwardly. Sam | ||
| mica
Moderator Username: mica Post Number: 1350 Registered: 6-2000 |
I suppose it's obvious why we only make the Small Standard in a short scale (except of course for dela). The only alternate strapholder location I've seen work is like a folk guitar with the strap wrapped around the peghead. You've got the ingredients we suggest going for ya: wide strap (especially one with a sueded surface toward your body), hold it up high. Of course, my old bass teacher would slap me if I practiced sitting on a couch, "you aren't going to perform on a couch, are you?" is what he'd tell me. ;) Slightly related: when you see Stanley play his personal short scale basses, they're usually at about 2:30 or 3:00 on the clock face for balance. So if it's 1:00-2:00 you're after, the Small Standard is not the best choice. | ||
| musikill
Junior Username: musikill Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks Mica, I am making adjustments and may have found a strap that wil help. It should arrive soon and if it works I'll let the group know. the strap has strips of neopreme in it if I understand the construction correctly. The neopreme should help with slippage. I do love the bass and hope that I can make the adjustment - if I cannot I'll just have to get a Spyder or Series bass. I will never change my mind about Alembics - always have loved these guitars. I owned a 1974 or 75 (I think it was one of those years) F2-B pre-amp that I bought new. This was before there was an Alembic bass if I'm not mistaken. It may have been earlier but I don't think so. I think I paid $350 at the time - it had the light blue case with black/red knobs. Sure wish I still had it. greg | ||
| bigbadbill
Junior Username: bigbadbill Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2003 |
Hi Greg Glad to see you're perservering; I really hope you can work it out.If not, I'm sure you'll find something else that suits Alembic-wise. I was so disappointed when I first started to notice the back/neck problems with my SC having wanted an Alembic (it was my first) for over 20 years and being so impressed with it in every other way; ironically I used to be heavily into weight lifting and once could have wielded a solid bodied MK no problem, but I couldn't afford an Alembic at that time. When I finally managed to afford one.... well, you know the rest! And Daveski, welcome and glad to hear you got my bass! I was really disappointed when the original buyer (really nice guy)decided he didn't like the bass, as I really wanted it to go to good home. I'm glad to find out that it has! All the best with the bass, I hope you love it as much as I did (but without the problems!)And yeah, I used long scale strings too..... Cheers Shaun | ||
| waggaboy
New Username: waggaboy Post Number: 6 Registered: 2-2003 |
The harness instead of a strap as discussed in the "Neck Balance" thread is also an option... |
