| Author | Message | ||
| jcdlc72
Junior Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2009 |
Greets! I was wondering... since I own several basses already, and only one Alembic yet, and I think I have several "basses" covered (Maple neck Precision, Flatwounds/Rosewood Precision, Standard "normal" Rosewood Jazz, Bart pickups/Active rosewood Jazz -I am currently lacking a Maple neck Jazz-, 2-humbuckers bright/Slap sounding EMG loaded neck-thru, P/P Rare Neck-Thru 4, MM-Sounding-like headless Kramer Aluminum neck 4, Modern sounding 2 humbuckers bolt-on 5er, P/J 5er, 2 Humbucker - J- coil style soapbar EMGs- fretless 4, EAB, P/J Bart-loaded solidbody 4, and my beloved 96' Epic 5), and I use several of them in very specific situations, soundwise, depending on what I'm being called for. Don't get me wrong. I drool when I play my Epic, but, as versatile as it can get, it is not a tool for all styles. And I don't believe in that neither, being so frequently in the need to fill several different shoes at once. So I was wondering... Which Alembic bass would you compare (or choose) to have a sound similar to, say, a Jazz Bass? Which one gets closer to a Precision Bass? Let's say you can choose to replace every bass in the arsenal (I have several distinct sounding basses for different sounds and purposes) with an Alembic... which one would you choose in each case, and why? | ||
| slammin
Junior Username: slammin Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2009 |
That is a good question, but my guess is the answer will be something along the line that since an Alembic sound is so distinctively 'Alembic', the better question, and my quest until actually owning one was always, "what bass sounds most like an Alembic?". I know this doesn't help you, but funny that my search began opposite of yours :-) I will say that I can get very satisfying tones from my Persuader, to the point that I don't feel a need to pick up my Peavey, Warwick or Ibanez, but then again, I don't gig. | ||
| slammin
Junior Username: slammin Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2009 |
That is a good question, but my guess is the answer will be something along the line that since an Alembic sound is so distinctively 'Alembic', the better question, and my quest until actually owning one was always, "what bass sounds most like an Alembic?". I know this doesn't help you, but funny that my search began opposite of yours :-) I will say that I can get very satisfying tones from my Persuader, to the point that I don't feel a need to pick up my Peavey, Warwick or Ibanez, but then again, I don't gig. | ||
| crobbins
Senior Member Username: crobbins Post Number: 524 Registered: 6-2004 |
As classic as all those other basses you mentioned sound. In my opinion the Alembic sound is far superior. | ||
| gregduboc
Advanced Member Username: gregduboc Post Number: 303 Registered: 11-2008 |
Honestly, I always managed to find a sound out of the Alembics with top electronics (Series I) that would fit in the band's style. With good equalization, I can almost mimic the sound of Fenders and others out of my Alembic. They will never sound the same, as each bass has it's own particular characteristics, but I can get fairly close. But obviously, I always tend to run away from that, as the Alembic sound is my favorite by FAAAAAAAAR... Greg | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 418 Registered: 1-2008 |
As versatile as Alembics are, I think you're hard pressed to make an active neck-through bass sound like a passive bolt-on bass. That's why I still have my Jazz. | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 61 Registered: 12-2009 |
I never heard any bolt-on bass, sound like an Alembic and probably never will. What's interesting, Alembics has a better foundation to match any bass outthere... (but, why would you want to do that anyway???) | ||
| dannobasso
Senior Member Username: dannobasso Post Number: 1184 Registered: 3-2004 |
Set neck Excel in answer to the question. I'm a gear head, collector and player. After years of gigging, recording and having Alembic make some amazing dreams come true my thoughts are this: nobody really cares out in the audience apart from the anal retentive gear heads. The engineer will do things to your tone that would anger a Zen master. The amount of time, energy and passion spent talking, reading and arguing specs and opinions was not worth it in hindsight. I feel that as time goes by, the amount of individuals with a discerning ear is dwindling. Life is very short and precious. Enjoy the art of music in the making, sharing and savor the feelings it gives you. If you need different tools to get the job done, then that is the path to go. But there is a general consensus here that you can't fake it on a Santa Rosa creation, no matter the model. If you can play clean on an Alembic, you can play on just about anything. My name is Danno and I'm an Alemboholic. I'm a friend of Sue W. Takin' it one bass at a time......one bass at a time. I have way too much gear and ebay is not a good thing when you can't sleep. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 948 Registered: 6-2002 |
hehe...I've bought a few things at 2:30 am on ebay, logic isn't always what it can be when your awake Good advice on both the Excel and everything else. | ||
| oddmetersam
Member Username: oddmetersam Post Number: 56 Registered: 7-2008 |
Danno, your observation about playing clean on an Alembic is right on the mark! I got my 35" scale MK Signature Deluxe last June and I'm still trying to find its most quintessential tone as it coincides with the sound in my own head. It is very unforgiving of sloppy technique; yet I also know it's gradually making me a better player as far as articulation and consistency of touch and nuance. When I switch to my Spector or Line 6 Variax, they already physically feel more like toys and I can get around on them much more nimbly than before. But even though I still like them on occasion, they just don't have quite the same richness or mojo. Frankly, I wouldn't want my Alembic to sound like any other bass but what it already is. If I wanted to emulate my '72 Jazz...I'd use my '72 Jazz. But I'll also say that after absorbing just a fraction of this wide-ranging forum I'm eager to try out as many models in the Alembic line as possible. | ||
| briant
Advanced Member Username: briant Post Number: 399 Registered: 12-2004 |
"Which Alembic bass would you compare (or choose) to have a sound similar to, say, a Jazz Bass? Which one gets closer to a Precision Bass? Let's say you can choose to replace every bass in the arsenal (I have several distinct sounding basses for different sounds and purposes) with an Alembic... which one would you choose in each case, and why?" I can get any of my Alembics to sound like a P or jazz bass. It's all about how you use the filters and pickup pan knob. Obviously they don't sound *exactly* like it - but I can get them close enough. I personally prefer the "Alembic sound". I'm in the process of selling 3 of the 4 other basses I currently own for the simple fact that I just don't play them anymore. My poor Stingray has been hanging on the wall untouched for well over a year now. | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1338 Registered: 9-2002 |
This is one of those 'no right answer/no wrong answer' questions. Of course Alembic offers replacement pickups (the Alembic Activators) in Precision and Jazz shapes. Slap a pair of Jazz Activators into a Fender Jazz and it'll sound great, but . . . it won't exactly sound like the Jazz Bass tone you may be expecting. And of course, Series pickups/electronics are their own planet: No one else builds a single coil/humcanceller/filter setup driven by a phantom power 48v offboard power supply. The original Fender passive pickups (and their nine zillion succeeding versions, aftermarket replacements, etc.) were passive single coils. The Jazz activators are stacked, active pickups with a much higher quality tone network should you order the Alembic wiring harness/circuit to go with them. The PBass activators would sound different as well over their original Fender predecessor. No way it would sound like my current fave Fender, the $349 Squier Vintage-Modified Jazz. But I could live with both BECAUSE they're different, yet similar. Or the same bass with Lindy Fralin replacements. Or the same bass with Seymour's Quarter Pounders. Or EMG's or Barts. See where I'm going? Plus you have to marry that with what YOU hear. This is all so very subjective, an aspect not to be overlooked. I own a custom Elan Five with P and J Activators built with a very-Fenderish wood recipe, mostly maple and ash, by design to fit into the current style of the Sadowskys, Mike Lulls, etc. It's Fender-ish . . . but doesn't quite sound like any Fender I ever heard, which was the idea. The Alembic pickups/electronics are just a big step above stock Fender or EMG/Barts. But if I wanted a real Jazz bass sound, I'd get that Squier and load it with Fralins and call it a day. You just have to decide if you're like a session player in that the individual sound of each axe is that unique to your ears, or can you get most things you need done with one or two axes. I have the Elan Five plus a Series-shaped Spoiler Five in maple over mahogany with FatBoy replacements over the original AXY's. So I have the Fender-ish tone in one, and the more MusicMan-ish, humbucking-like tone through the mahogany from the FatBoy Spoiler. Other guys I know can't live with out 10 or 20 different axes. You just have to decide what works for you. | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2009 |
I played a "70's Musicman" Stingray over the holiday's, and almost laughed with a slight bit of disappointing anger. However, I had to stop myself, and understand Musicman basses were marketed to masses of people who never heard the sound of an Alembic bass, nor the variations of sounds it creates. So frankly, and sadly the users never was able to compare basses. This honest question will continue for most (Have mercy on their sound...) But, until the "red pill" of Alembic salvation is taken, they'll never know what is really meant. (Message edited by the_jester on December 28, 2009) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 618 Registered: 5-2009 |
There are occasions that one may encounter as a "Musical Mercenary" to comply to the customers requirements if you are hired as a studio musician . Such requirement might be to read and play a part exactly as it is written in the score and to provide the tonality as required by the producer. Believe it or not there are still Successful Engineers and Producers out there with "GOLD & PLATINUM" records hanging on their walls that STILL want the Bass track to be "FENDER BASS". Not that long ago we had a thread in this forum that turned rather "SOUR" and somewhat potentially volatile that had postings by one such fellow. As I recall he seemed to have convinced himself that he favoured the sound of Vintage Fender Bass's of certain specifications in the MIX. As as result as there is the demand for that , some" Studio Musicians " might have such a "Beast" in their arsenal to meet such a demand if it means :getting the 'WELL PAID" gig and paying the rent so to speak. Personally of course I far prefer the ALEMBIC sound but there are times when one must have an alternative choice to make them happy even if they are completely obstinate and ill informed and not willing to explore another solution and just want to do everything 'THEIR" way. SAD but it happens. | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 63 Registered: 12-2009 |
Wolf, I see no harm in getting paid for using a Non-Alembic bass. Heck, Alembics have severe limitation -- in sounding like a bucket bass (made from a broomstick, strings and a hollow bucket).  So, if the studio's paying for the honest sounds of a bucket bass, make it happen, and simply get paid. In other words, this is just pure business on the basis of those who pay's the checks. However, the facts remains, (with my Alembic) I can create the sound of any F-P, F-J, MM, Kramer, BCR, and Rick-B too. But, if the studio is paying me to use something else, and I need the money, (and they say: "please"...) It's Done! (Message edited by the_jester on December 29, 2009) | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 619 Registered: 5-2009 |
Most CATS (producer/engineers) Praise The Alembic choice but as in all areas in life we come across " nay sayers" to almost anything. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 620 Registered: 5-2009 |
Those "nay sayers" are also in orchestras regarding the tonality regarding Trumpets . For example if you come into a brass section of Trumpets and the Conductor and/or other Trumpet players have the Bach Trumpet Preference Thing in their head and you come in with say with a" Selmer Paris Trumpet" or a "Courtois" or a 'Monette" you might get a similar reaction. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 621 Registered: 5-2009 |
HAL it's like 'THE BORG" in " STAR TREK" ________ "WE ARE BORG, YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE." I can envision the independent BORG that got away playing an ALEMBIC !! That would be the SMART BORG to set a Precedent for the others to follow! Hal ___ Please_ We need an image of a Borg playing an Alembic . You are the "Computer Generated Visual Artist" among us! This thread needs some colour ! I have always appreciated such visuals. | ||
| spose
Advanced Member Username: spose Post Number: 291 Registered: 5-2002 |
if I want my series one to sound like a P Bass, I just throw a blanket over my rig and I'm in the ball park. I've had nothing but high praise live and in the studio concerning my series one tone. In my area, if you want a Fender tone, there are PLENTY of other cats that will deliver...but if you want the BEST sounding bass tone in the world, then I usually get the call.....go figger. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 622 Registered: 5-2009 |
To MY ears my " Alembic Series II " or my" Alembic Distillate " or my "Alembic Essence" sound better then any of my other Bass's. AND play better as well. | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2009 |
If I owned three cars in the front of my house, and a passenger stands there not knowing which cars I own, nor which car I would eventually ask her/him to enter...this may put the passenger in somewhat of a blinding (unknown) position; and it maybe a inconvenience to the passenger as well. However, the passenger is a fair mined person, and really just wants to get from point 'A' to point 'B' so could care less what car (just as long as it's a car...). On the other hand, I believe its plain blatantly arrogant if the passenger to says out the gate: "I don't know which cars you own, but none of these before me, are good enough for me to sit in comfort..." How do you deal with this passenger? It's completely up to you... Peace and Love - (Message edited by the_jester on December 29, 2009) | ||
| chrisalembic
Intermediate Member Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 104 Registered: 3-2009 |
Basses are tools, made to create sounds and make music. Lets look at just the sound for a moment (not the level of construction, customization, where it was built etc.). Just sound and we listen to: Paul McCartney, Pino Palladino, Jaco Pastorius, Bernhard Edwards, Paul Jackson, Anthony Jackson, Marcus Miller,... I dont think any of these Bass players sound incomplete, lacking or inferior (to alembic players). And I dont think they could even be improved when any of these players were given an alembic. On the other hand, Alembic's craftmanship, custom options, attention to detail, materials used and so on is quite the best way a bass guitar can be made. Still an Alembic will never sound and feel like a passive P-Bass. It might get close, but its not the same. But it wasnt even made to do that. Same goes vice versa. And why would you want that, when there are both, "Whatever floats you boat" | ||
| chrisalembic
Intermediate Member Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 105 Registered: 3-2009 |
Also I think alembics have a very distinct sound to them. A sound that I very much like. For example Jimmy Johnson's bass sound. I have never really seen that Jimmy Johnson does a whole lot of knob tweaking. It seems like he plays with a certain knob setting on his series basses for 90 percent of the time. I never was into alembic because they have 100 different sounds or can sound like any other bass (which i dont believe either). But because they can give you your own sound and because of the one "sound character" that is common to all alembic basses and guitars. Clarity, even tone respone, sustain, no noise etc. (Message edited by chrisalembic on December 29, 2009) | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 66 Registered: 12-2009 |
Let me just say this... I had been wrong many times thinking a particular sound of a bass was a fender or something else, and it was indeed an Alembic. Peace and Love. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 623 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes Sir______" It's completely up to you" This is where I would correlate all other variables into the equation. such as: Various circumstances of the identity of the passenger and weather or not I am receiving compensation.My ideal response should be of a deliberated nature ,at least that is what I strive for rather then a purely emotional response.It's a professional thing. I have already had numerous such experiences in life.This is just one example of many such events that i have had: Once when I was doing a "stage hand/roadie" gig I had set up the Amp & Guitar for a certain 'Famous; Guitar Player ( I can't reveal his name for obvious reasons ) who was completely EXHAUSTED from a U.S. TOUR. He had wandered off the back stage area into the balcony of the venue and was curled up sleeping. I was sent out by the stage manager to find him because "SHOW TIME " was in less then 15 minutes_ WHERE IS HE ? Well I found him , woke him up and led him on stage just seconds to "SHOW TIME"! All the way to the stage I had to suffer his cursing &insults until I had him on stage and handed him his Guitar and told him" OK , I tuned you up, and plugged you in and your Amp is in " stand by" now I am switching you on ! " He was then SO GRATEFUL and apologetic and played that Guitar like he was "ON FIRE " ! and had a GREAT GIG ! The stage manager thanked me for my GOOD Handling of the whole scene , and that was "COMPLETELY UP TO ME ". It is a" Professional" thing. | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 264 Registered: 9-2004 |
Jeez, can-o-worms time!! ;) Alembics are great, so are many other basses. I am watching 'The Song Remains the Same' right now and the Fender bass JPJ is playing sounds super. Listen to later 'The Brothers Johnson' with the Stingray bass or 'Yes' with the Rickenbacker bass. Yamaha TRB-JP's are bolt on but sound amazing. Series ones and the rest sound amazing, but a lot of it is still in the fingers! Each quality bass is a tool with a unique personality. My less than .02 cents worth! Dave | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 67 Registered: 12-2009 |
Wolf, That was quite a story, and you made the best decision not to fight the guy, for the good of everyone. | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 624 Registered: 5-2009 |
Thanks Hal. My apologies to all for us going off topic.I tend to have a propensity to digress_____________ _____________ ___________ ___________. Maybe it's an old guy thing.Story telling that is . | ||
| bass4worship
Junior Username: bass4worship Post Number: 41 Registered: 7-2009 |
I own two basses now, my Excel and P-bass. The Excel can get close to that P-bass sound but has a little more gowl to it. | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 635 Registered: 12-2004 |
Its not the Bass it's the Playa....(me on my jazz Bass) .....Warning  ffensive Lyrics!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJbVLRbBHA4 | ||
| chrisalembic
Intermediate Member Username: chrisalembic Post Number: 107 Registered: 3-2009 |
Nice bass playing Keavin!!! Same bass, different player: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-yS7z9Qdw&feature=PlayList&p=FCB657DAB6F67920&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=15 www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XKr_6MzZTw can you hear the difference? ;-) | ||
| the_jester
Member Username: the_jester Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2009 |
#12, 100% agree. It is the player. Question to you #12: Which bass did you use on the recording (you just sent)? | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 637 Registered: 12-2004 |
.... (Message edited by Serialnumber12 on December 31, 2009) | ||
| serialnumber12
Senior Member Username: serialnumber12 Post Number: 638 Registered: 12-2004 |
Twas lettin my (Low B string Rattle) While i was doin my lixx!!! (Message edited by serialnumber12 on December 30, 2009) | ||
| hifiguy
Advanced Member Username: hifiguy Post Number: 202 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've never had any trouble getting the nasal, cutting Jaco sound out of my SCSS. Roll the pan to about 7/8 bridge pickup, set the filter at 7:30 to 8:00 o'clock (as viewed from the front of the bass) and hit the Q switch. My natural playing position is plucking quite close to the bridge and that probably has something to do with it. There's a bit more fundamental than with my FOJ (Tokai) Jazz, but the similarity is striking. Usually I go for the big clean Alembic sound, but there are times I need that "quack" and my Alembic is more than up to the task. | ||
| nnek
Junior Username: nnek Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2009 |
I've been interested to see a somewhat common choice of other brands as I've perused the photos throughout the club. The sound quest that most of us have journeyed on finds a kindred link in Guild Starfires and G&L.... My own journey went from a Starfire through Leo's creations P to J to Stingray to L-1000 to ASAT to Alembic. I've never sold the Starfire and have never sold my '80 L-1000. I love a fat backround but must have a high slice of definition and gave up fenders for that slice of my plastic knob Stingray to give that up to G&L as the fullness and slice combination got better. Maybe it was my early exposure to the Alembic sound, when I first played the S1 that I now own back in 1976, that left me searching for the perfect pallet. The quest has led me back to 1976 now that my pocket can cope with my desire. | ||
| peoplechipper
Intermediate Member Username: peoplechipper Post Number: 190 Registered: 2-2009 |
For me the biggest thing I've noticed with bolt-on basses is the dead E-string; you can dull down the electronics of an Alembic but the evenness of tone string-to-string will always stick out...some bolt-ons aren't as bad(musicman) but there's still a difference...I guess that glue is good...Tony | ||
| gtrguy
Advanced Member Username: gtrguy Post Number: 276 Registered: 9-2004 |
I own a bolt on TRB-JP and I can tell you that the E and the B are very much alive. Not sure how they do it though. Dave | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1838 Registered: 6-2002 |
What I notice about all my alembics is that when you plug them in for the first time, they have a wow factor in the sound and every time I play one i find a new wow sound. I haven't found that on any of the basses I've had before , but then the only decent bass I had before that was a Musicman Sterling. That did have a great powerful meaty sound but I didn't find it very versatile in it's tone especially when I wanted less top end it sounded quite dull. I tried out a Sandberg bass this week in a store for a friend of mine who wanted my opinion on it before he decides to buy it, and I have to say it sounds a great bass. I liked the fact you can still get a little top end on the notes even when you had the bass boost fully on so you still get clarity. I personally didn't get on with sound of Yamaha basses when I tried a few TRB's before getting the musicman but I love the sound Nathan East gets out of his yamaha basses. Yes there are probably a few million pounds worth of sound processing equipment between his fingers in the studio and when the CD audio hits my ears but his sound is great. Jazzyvee | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 708 Registered: 5-2009 |
I completely agree about the Alembic " wow factor" . I played a Jaydee and it just did not appeal to me. Played a few fretted ZON Bass"s and they were OK but was somewhat fascinated by their "Hyperbass' fretless. The Pedulla" Buzz" Bass fretless appeals to me as well for a particular purpose and sound. All in all I think Alembic has got it all for the most part. | ||
| slammin
Junior Username: slammin Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2009 |
What I think is the most defining factor is the attack I can get with my Alembic. I had always wanted that 'Stanley' attack, where it sounds like you are thumping and plucking, but actually you are only fingering. I can get close to that sound (attack) on other basses but it requires too much effort (and sore fingers). I am very good setting up my own basses as far as action, etc. I've put my Persuader through a few different setups - nut high bridge low, bridge high nut high or low, messed with neck relief, etc. In any combo, I never lose attack, though different setups do affect noise (string buzz and thwap) and such. Just a marvelous and unique combo of craftsmanship, wood and electronics with this Alembic. So easy to play but definitely will make you appreciate the dynamics you can get with technique alone. | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 488 Registered: 5-2002 |
What's amazing to me is not how Alembics can sound like other basses but how different they sound in the hands of different people. I will say that I think the Series basses are apart to a greater and lesser degree from other Alembic basses. To my hands and ears, Epics have more in common with other brands of basses than they do with Series I basses. However, I digress. If you listen to Stanley Clark, Phil Lesh, Danny Bowens, Jim Cammach, etc. they are all playing Alembics, but they are all very distinctive from each other. In fact, Phil's bass was directly compared to a washtub bass by producer Keith Olsen in reference to the Terrapin Station sessions. He complained that Phil didn't have a Fender. As a side note, I've run into a fair number of engineers and producers who don't really know what to do with a non-Fender sound. I recently recorded some bass lines for a friend's album and went through various basses (including my Series I) but non of the parts were successful in the ears of the engineer until I pulled out the Lakland JO. I thought my original tracks with the Starfire were the best. Oh well. So, my point is that Alembics can really reflect their player in a very direct way, so that rather being limited to imitation of another bass that always sounds like that bass no matter who is playing it, it can create a broad spectrum of tone, often merely by variation of touch. No other bass can really say that. I can't wait to get another! I hope I'm being somewhat lucid, as I am bedridden with H1N1 and between fever and vicodin, am feeling pretty dreamy. | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 981 Registered: 6-2002 |
Well said Edwin. Many thoughts of health for you, Kris | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 711 Registered: 5-2009 |
HI Edwin , I have been there too ! I hope that you are feeling better soon . If you want another Alembic , it will soon be in your hands ; just keep your mind and energy toward the acquisition of such . It's like magic ! It has worked for me ! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 489 Registered: 5-2002 |
Oh, I don't doubt the power of manifestation! I have manifested all kinds of wonderful things in my life. It's very powerful, resulting certainly in many of my instruments (definitely my Modulus Q6, which took all of 4 weeks to manifest from intention to instrument in my hands, although most of the time was spent sanding). I am just patiently waiting for the right one to come along. Short scale, series I, cocobolo, LEDs, etc. Or, a medium scale Distillate 5 string would be pretty wonderful. Ah, hell. Eventually the right instrument will stare at me and call my name and there it is. | ||
| jcdlc72
Junior Username: jcdlc72 Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2009 |
Oh the power of manifestation!!! So, here I go: I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! I want a MK Balance K Omega Heart shape, a Series, an SC and a fretless Europa! Ommmmmmmmmm! heheheh!! | ||
| bigredbass
Senior Member Username: bigredbass Post Number: 1359 Registered: 9-2002 |
These discussions are always backwards to me, despite my previous comment above. I always sound like me. If I pick up a brown bass, I DON'T (can't, actually) sound like Stanley. I wouldn't sound like Jimmy on a five-string Series 2. Or Mark King. When I worked in music stores, kids always wanted to sound like the guitar hero of that day, what should I buy to sound like that, etc. If you could play Eddie's rig, you still wouldn't sound like EVH. Even if you knew his technique note for note. It's all relative. Yeah, an old PBass with old strings thru a fliptop Ampeg is a great sound, and utterly different than a Series through a component rig. Yet even that example could skew quite a bit depending on the player. I tend to notice more the difference in feel, what it feels like to strap on different axes than the tone. After a Series shape, EVERYTHING feels short! J o e y | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 466 Registered: 1-2008 |
I think people tend to sound like themselves (no matter what instrument they're playing) because they "compensate" for tonal differences in the instrument with the amp settings. Alembics have proven to be an exception for me. My "signature tone" had always had a character that Alembics really can't reproduce no matter WHAT I do to the amp or bass (think Steve Harris, but with less low-end and a BUNCH more midrange). This was QUITE distressing to me initially, but I have come to better understand how different woods, construction techniques, and electronics affect tone. As such, I have a unique (to me) tone when using an Alembic and the tone I have "traditionally" favored when using one of my bolt-on basses. Both tones are "pleasing" to my ear, but they are very different. Back "in the day" (when I was playing !!!METAL!!!) my style and tone was similar to Harris and an Alembic would not have been the right tool to deliver those goods (interesting since I had never really listened to Iron Maiden much, yet I developed the same "approach" to bass guitar). These days I'm doing more projects with other people that are decidedly NON-metal; therefore, the Alembic tone is perfect. Of course I'm not saying you can't use an Alembic with !!!METAL!!! (as Danno and Flip can attest to), but I would not have been able to get the tone I wanted. I've not had a chance to record with my Orion yet, I'll be interested to see if it's set-neck design will translate into something that more closely approximates my old signature tone. | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1853 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm going to play devil's advocate here so bear with me and don't burn me as it's not the day of judgement yet. If I got hold of a top of the range series bass and found a top rate luthier to cut off the neck in such a manner that I then could re-attach it to the body as a bolt on neck joint, how much of the traditional alembic sound would I lose? Would it still sound better than other bolt on-basses? Would Mica & Ron want to remove my neck from my body in a similar fashion? Jazzyvee | ||
| the_jester
Junior Username: the_jester Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2010 |
What kind of sound are you trying to achieve? I would say, if you change the integrity of the Alembic structure, you'd pretty much altered the traditional sound(s) Alembic would originally create. Then the question of -- would it sound better than other bolt on basses... I am sure, it would sound better Jazzyvee. Hey it might even sound better than some Alembics out there... Go for it (the Devil says) and report your findings! Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by the_jester on February 11, 2010) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1854 Registered: 6-2002 |
Are you willing to donate the tomahawk for my research? ;-) hahahaha Jazzyvee | ||
| the_jester
Junior Username: the_jester Post Number: 39 Registered: 2-2010 |
LOL!!! I know you lost your mind now... (the Toma_Hawk???) ...Man, I was just about to send you a personal email, to tell you "NOT" to use your Dragon Magic! That was great laugh, thanks Jazz! Peace and Love! Hal- | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 468 Registered: 1-2008 |
Jazzyvee, that has actually been discussed here before. The consensus was that you would indeed dramatically change the tone of your instrument. To be a little more specific about my "Signature Tone" that I alluded to above: I had always favored a punchy mid-range heavy tone. With a bolt-on bass, I always dialed in just enough bass so that I could hear a "bump" in the speakers response: on most amps that was around 10 or 11 o'clock. The mid-range was usually at 3 o'clock and the treble was flat. That tone is ingrained in my brain like my birthday, but an Alembic just will not "do" it!!! My understanding from Mica's post on the subject is that the neck-through design imparts a scooped-mids response on the instrument that no amount of processing can over-come (if it wasn't there to start with...). My "Signature Tone" was perfect for the music I was playing in the 80's, it's probably WAY too obnoxious for the stuff I'm doing now. That being said, if Alembic offered a bolt-on model I would probably wait for one of you guys to buy one, decide you hated it, and buy yours. LOL | ||
| mike1762
Senior Member Username: mike1762 Post Number: 469 Registered: 1-2008 |
Several folks on here have Bolt-ons with Alembic Activators... how much do those instruments sound like a neck-through Alembic??? | ||
| the_jester
Junior Username: the_jester Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2010 |
Personally, I prefer bolt-on six sting lead guitars, over neck through ones. But with my Alembic or soon "Alembics" neck-through are royal. My Godin Artisan ST is the best crisp sounding guitar I ever heard on any six string. I am sure they're better sounding guitars, I hope you find it... but I simply love my Godin Artisan ST! Peace and Love, Hal- (Message edited by the_jester on February 11, 2010) | ||
| jazzyvee
Senior Member Username: jazzyvee Post Number: 1855 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'm not looking to change the sound of my alembic at all, I was just expressing a couriousity. As I said earlier I have not had enough decent non alembic basses to be able to quantify the difference in sound being attributed to the neck thru design as against anything else. To my ears all my instruments sound different because they are different. When buying an alembic I had no idea that there were sonic differences between bolt ons and neck through basses or guitars. I just wanted a bass that had the Stanley Clarke type tone and it just happened that alembic was a neck through. I only discovered the difference in sound properties by reading these alembic threads not from personal experience. I still don't think I could tell if a bass or guitar was neck through, bolt on or set neck from a blindfolded test unless I was shown what to listen for. If I liked the sound of it, that would be enough. I was so pleased that when I went to play at a festival in Canada a few years ago I heard what I thought was an alembic bass amongst the various stages, I went over to the stage to see the band and it was indeed an alembic and more importantly not an alembic I'd ever heard before. Jazzyvee | ||
| garth4664
Member Username: garth4664 Post Number: 93 Registered: 10-2008 |
Here is how my 70's B00 series Music Man Stingray compares to my Series 1,2 Alembics. Generally the Alembics are much more versatile, but even the Cocobolo series 1 does not have quite as much "balls" as the 70s Stingray. Unfortunately the Stingray is a bit of a one trick pony and really has only that one sound (with various amounts of bass/treble). The Coco Series one can come close to the sound of that bass with a bit of tweaking, but it is still different and a bit less "forceful". One other bass that I will never remove from my collection is a 60's short scale Australian hand made lute shaped bass. I have borrowed 60's hofner violin basses from time to time and the lute bass sounds similar but better, clearer and more defined. Again this is totally unique, but the schedua top series 2 (custom), which I think is more versatile than the cocobolo series 1, can come close to the sound with a lot of fiddling on the controls. There is no way either of my series instruments can sound as organically complex as my 1950's Czech made 1/2 size blonde double bass - perhaps I need a classico? I also have a custom 6 string warwick thumb bass with a very nice ebony fretboard. It sounds like a piano, and is more sterile than the alembic tone - it is still a very nice bass but does not really have any of it's own character sound wise. The Alembics (particularly the Coco Series 1) can almost replicate this tone but generally there is no reason to as they sound better anyway. I sold my MV Pedulla and my PRS bass recently as both Series instruments can easily cover their tonal palates - they were completely redundant. I was previously looking for a nice Rickenbacker 4001, but the Series electronics also seem to be able to cover the typical tones from these instruments, and I don't want one anymore. One thing I have noticed is that (except for the lute bass) all my basses are physically heavy - I have a suspicion that this is more important than the neck construction (bolt on or neck through) for the tone of the bass. If I could choose only one instrument it would be an Alembic Series bass, but to be honest the notes that you choose are so much more important than the bass that you play. | ||
| lembic76450
Advanced Member Username: lembic76450 Post Number: 201 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ok, I can't recall one, but, has there been a set neck Series I/II? Me, I'll keep my neck thru where it should be. | ||
| the_jester
Junior Username: the_jester Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2010 |
Bolt-on neck Alembic = A Frankenstein Alembic... (Message edited by the_jester on February 11, 2010) | ||
| dfung60
Senior Member Username: dfung60 Post Number: 403 Registered: 5-2002 |
jazzyvee - I don't think you need to go cutting up a Series bass to do this experiment! You can think of the instrument as a sort of mechanical filter for the sound of the strings vibration. It has a "frequency response" - there are going to be resonant frequencies where the string's vibration is absorbed by the body and neck and what you hear is softer and areas where the instrument isn't eating up the energy. The peaks and valleys are complex and give the instrument it's character. Unlike your stereo where you ideally want the response to be even ("flat"), there's no right answer - it's just how the instrument sounds. You may have heard the term "formant" which is how you refer to the characteristic physical frequency response of an instrument. The body of a violin has a particular response because of the materials and construction - if you're lucky it will be "right" and you'll have a Stradavarius. It's exactly the same with your Alembic too. The response of the instrument is fixed and each different note you play interacts with that response differently. If you sample a piano and transpose it up an interval, a critical ear can hear that this isn't right because a digital sampler transposed the frequency response of the piano body as well as the note, where a real piano would have had a different relationship at each key. Better synths deal with this by having 88 samples and some of the really good ones try to model the physical behavior of the piano's physicality. The response of the instrument isn't just steady state either. It may change with volume and may react really differently with as transients are struck and die down. So, it's really complex. When you use different woods in a guitar neck, the effect is that you're changing the frequency response. A dark wood like mahogany is absorbing more of the highs; maple absorbs the lows instead. Each piece of wood is different, too. The construction makes a big difference too. On a Fender, there's a really big effect not only because there's two different pieces of wood, but there's usually two different types of wood as well - maple in the neck, and alder or ash in the body. Between the effect of the mechanical joint and the different woods, the general effect is that there's less sustain and the high frequencies die out pretty quick. This is generally why bolt-ons seem more "punchy". You get a big blast of transient when you hit the note, and then it dies out and becomes less trebly pretty quick - that's "punch". A through-body has both ends of the string on the same piece (or pieces) of wood, so the sustain will probably be longer and there's also consistency of the wood type from end to end. You get more sustain throughout the frequency range. Because the note and it's harmonics aren't dying out so quickly, this is why people think that through-bodies are less punchy. Set-necks are in between. They have a tigher mechanical joint but the two ends of the strings are on different pieces of wood and maybe even different types of wood, so there will be an intermediate loss of sustain. The neck joint is interesting. If you're talking about a Fender, the density and physical characteristics of the body and neck are quite different. This is a physical impedance match (similar to the electrical impedance between your amp and speakers). When the sound moves from the higher density maple into alder, this actually causes a reflection at the joint - some of the vibration from the neck is reflected back into the neck. You don't have this sort of mismatch with a through-body instrument. The lamination in the Alembic neck have a couple of effects too. First of all, the slices of wood can be flipped when they're assembled which means that warp in the original piece can be counterbalanced. And the different types of laminations blend their effects in the overall sound of the neck. After all this babbling, I might also point out that there are instruments that model what the difference in sound might be. An MTD bass has similar exotic woods and laminated neck contruction but is bolt-on instead of through-body so that's probably a pretty good hint of how the physical change will sound. David Fung | ||
| elwoodblue
Senior Member Username: elwoodblue Post Number: 1000 Registered: 6-2002 |
David, I love how you explain complex phenomena. Thanks for taking the time to make things clearer. Kris | ||
| slammin
Junior Username: slammin Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2009 |
But what is it with an Alembic that makes it sound like you are plucking a string when you are actually just fingering agressively? I call it 'attack', but it sounds like that could also be defined as 'punch'. Could/would it be the shorter scale and lack of high string tension that makes it so easy to get that 'thwap' using just fingering? I can detune any of my 34" basses but still can't get that attack I get with my Alembic, and I am using a heavier guage string on the Alembic. I can't imagine what to expect if I try a lighter guage. I think it will mean I'll have to get more precise in my technique if I go lighter though or else everything will sound like I'm popping every note, lol! | ||
| edwin
Senior Member Username: edwin Post Number: 518 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well, the manifestation worked: http://alembic.com/club/messages/411/77495.html?1268366122 | ||
| sonicus
Senior Member Username: sonicus Post Number: 773 Registered: 5-2009 |
Yes Edwin ! Congratulations ! You got the gift form the gift ! |
